Can anyone solve this riddle?

(user is banned)

2006-08-04 01:48:07 am

Quote from Prime Hunter:

Quote from Lazylen:

There are many deaths between days 1 and 250.

Where does it say that? I don't see it, but I could be wrong. I thought it just said everyone was nervous between day 1 and 250 after reading the book.

it doesnt, but it also implies that there were suicides between day 1 and 250 by asking which days the suicides occured on.

Prime Hunter

2006-08-04 01:50:07 am

Quote:

Number of nights in which suicides happened?

That's not asking for specific nights, just how many nights total.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-08-04 01:59:23 am

Quote from Prime Hunter:

Quote:

Number of nights in which suicides happened?

That's not asking for specific nights, just how many nights total.

good point...

Hitaro

2006-08-04 01:59:40 am

Given what the text says, I'm saying there shouldn't have been any suicides.

Quote from Prime Hunter:

That's before they read the book though, because through the crash is how they GOT the book. I don't see it specifically say that there are any deaths after reading the book until all the Brown Eyes kill themselves on day 250.

Edit: And we're probably going WAY to deep into this trying to figure it out... laugh new

But it's still on the same day, on day 1 (the day the book was read).

And I agree.

Prime Hunter

2006-08-04 02:05:00 am

Also a good point...

I was asking where it mentions any deaths between reading the book (Which is after the crash, obviously) and the 250th day.

And it technically doesn't mention if anyone died in the crash besides the astronauts, which aren't really relevant to the riddle anyway. But still, it is possible because it doesn't say either way if the local populace was effected or not.

Hitaro

2006-08-04 02:10:28 am

Quote from Prime Hunter:

Also a good point...

I was asking where it mentions any deaths between reading the book (Which is after the crash, obviously) and the 250th day.

And it technically doesn't mention if anyone died in the crash besides the astronauts, which aren't really relevant to the riddle anyway. But still, it is possible because it doesn't say either way if the local populace was effected or not.

The only thing that says that there were any deaths was the "leaving a big crater" and the math book...

What about the spaceship?

Izo

2006-08-04 07:53:11 am

soaking through

Guys, you're reading waayyy too much into this. It's a pure logic puzzle; the story is just to set a nice backdrop because riddles are always better with a nice backdrop.

Though this particular backdrop seems to be all flawed and shit.

Also, nobody's taken DJ's or Lizard's advice yet; I suggest you do, and that you also assume that these little guys are all very intelligent logicians.

arkarian

2006-08-04 11:43:57 am

red chamber dream

Yes, this whole riddle seems rather muddled and confusing. If they didn't bother adding in all this backdrop and just gave the riddle straight out, I'd probably try to solve it.

Prime Hunter

2006-08-04 12:13:47 pm

Well, seeing that I don't know where to go besides the things I mentioned originally about the Blue/Brown traits, I really can't do much more to help out unless somebody figures out what they read in the math book.

Quote from Prime Hunter:

And we're probably going WAY to deep into this trying to figure it out... laugh new

Yeah, I already agreed with that one, Izo. Wink

(It WAS past 1AM when I decided to get involved with this...)

carlmmii

2006-08-07 01:31:51 am

I can at least say that the mathematical concept is most likely induction... although I'm stuck on the base case(s). :(

LordJimmy

2006-08-09 09:59:26 am

You guys are taking this far too seriously.

Enough of the science stuff. The colour of the eyes is only there to move the riddle along. This is a very circumstancial problem and science needs to be ignored. There is no science in it. These coloured eyes could be anything, they could be coloured tatoos, stripes of paint or something on the person's face. It doesn't matter what it is. It's the problem that we are figuring out, not the set up.

And to contribute, I haven't a bloody clue.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-08-09 10:21:05 am

then how do you know that genetics aren't involved?

MonsterERB

2006-08-09 11:32:30 am

I've heard a variant of this before. Some of the reasoning used for that puzzle may well come into play for this one. It's the "monks with blue spots" puzzle. There is a monastery where all monks have a strict vow of silence - no speaking. (Additionally, no reflective surfaces or mirrors present.) All monks are very intelligent logicians. One day, ten of the monks develop a disease where they have a blue spot on their forehead - but they cannot see themselves, and nobody can tell them... so they don't know. That is, until the chief monk breaks the vow of silence. He says, "ten of you have a blue spot on your forehead. At midnight, you have to leave the temple." Now, even if there are hundreds of monks in the temple, the same result happens - at the very next midnight, the ten monks with blue spots on their foreheads leave.
...
It's easy to see why. Those WITHOUT blue spots look at their brethren, and can count ten among them with blue spots... therefore deducing that they are not infected. Those WITH blue spots can look around and only see nine others with blue spots, therefore deducing that they must be the tenth, and leave at midnight.
...
Now, think about what happens if instead of saying "ten have blue spots", the chief monk only says, "at least one of you has a blue spot". Now it becomes more complicated. If there's only one monk, then it's a trivial case. Imagine there are two monks, and one has a blue spot. The one with the spot sees his fellow monk with no spot, and knows that he is infected, and leaves. Now, imagine there are two monks, both with blue spots. Each will see the other's spot, and think they might be uninfected. But, after night 1, when neither leaves, they will realize that they are both infected, and both will leave on night 2.
...
Keep applying this logic for 3 monks, then 4... it gets pretty complicated. I don't know the solution for the particular problem in this topic, but I would imagine this kind of reasoning is what's needed to solve it.

I've heard a variant of this before.  Some of the reasoning used for that puzzle may well come into play for this one.  It's the "monks with blue spots" puzzle.  There is a monastery where all monks have a strict vow of silence - no speaking.  (Additionally, no reflective surfaces or mirrors present.)  All monks are very intelligent logicians.  One day, ten of the monks develop a disease where they have a blue spot on their forehead - but they cannot see themselves, and nobody can tell them... so they don't know.  That is, until the chief monk breaks the vow of silence.  He says, "ten of you have a blue spot on your forehead.  At midnight, you have to leave the temple."  Now, even if there are hundreds of monks in the temple, the same result happens - at the very next midnight, the ten monks with blue spots on their foreheads leave.
...
It's easy to see why.  Those WITHOUT blue spots look at their brethren, and can count ten among them with blue spots... therefore deducing that they are not infected.  Those WITH blue spots can look around and only see nine others with blue spots, therefore deducing that they must be the tenth, and leave at midnight.
...
Now, think about what happens if instead of saying "ten have blue spots", the chief monk only says, "at least one of you has a blue spot".  Now it becomes more complicated.  If there's only one monk, then it's a trivial case.  Imagine there are two monks, and one has a blue spot.  The one with the spot sees his fellow monk with no spot, and knows that he is infected, and leaves.  Now, imagine there are two monks, both with blue spots.  Each will see the other's spot, and think they might be uninfected.  But, after night 1, when neither leaves, they will realize that they are both infected, and both will leave on night 2.
...
Keep applying this logic for 3 monks, then 4... it gets pretty complicated.  I don't know the solution for the particular problem in this topic, but I would imagine this kind of reasoning is what's needed to solve it.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-08-09 05:32:13 pm

that could work if we knew the amount of people on the planet.

Chanoire

2006-08-10 02:35:11 am

Since the number of days and the number of suicides are directly related, the riddle provides that by specifying when the last suicides occurred.

craztad

2006-08-23 01:05:27 am

kyupi+yakisoba=win

I think the traits idea is the best bet. With only a couple hundred people say half blue eyes and half brown eyes, the dominant brown eye trait will sooner or later take over the blue leaving only brown eyed people except for the rare blue mishap. So at the time of the ship crash only brown eye people were left.
I have no idea what i am talking about but it sounds good to me.

Phazon Siphon

2006-08-23 05:04:24 am

MonsterERB is right. I used what he said and came up with the solution, making a couple of assumptions. Solution in spoilers below.

Assuming the civilization knows that there are at least one brown-eyed and one blue-eyed person. I assume that either the meeting gave them the logic to know how this works or the fact that there is at least one of each.

SITUATION 1

Logic 1: Blue-eyed person sees all brown-eyed people, kills himself knowing he has blue eyes.

Logic 2: Brown-eyed people see one blue-eyed person. They don't know whether they are blue-eyed or brown-eyed because there is at least one, so they don't kill themselves.

THE NEXT DAY

Logic 3: Seeing the blue-eyed man killed himself, they understand logic 1 and know that there was only 1 blue-eyed person. Now knowing there are brown-eyed, the rest of the civilization kills themselves.

Say there are 2 blue-eyed people:

SITUATION 2

Logic 1: Blue-eyed people see one more blue-eyed person and other brown-eyes. They know nothing, so they don't kill themselves.

Logic 2: Brown-eyed people see 2 blue-eyes, other brown-eyes. They know nothing, so no suicides.

THE NEXT DAY

Logic 3: Blue-eyed people know that there isn't just one blue-eyed person, because he would have killed himself like in situation 1. He now knows there are at least 2. Seeing only 1 more blue-eyed person, they each know they are blue-eyed and kill themselves.

Logic 4: Brown-eyes know there are at least 2, and nothing else on this day.

THE NEXT DAY

Logic 5: Brown-eyes realize that blue-eyeds killed themselves, know logic 3, kill selves knowing they have brown eyes.

So essentially, if there are X number of blue-eyes, they die on the Xth day. Brown-eyes die on day X + 1.

The exact same logic is being applied with opposite eye colours as well. Brown-eyes die on day X, blue-eyes on day X + 1.

However, since we know that brown-eyes die later, the "X number" for them must be higher than for the blue-eyes. Thus, there are more brown-eyes than blue-eyes.

Since Brown-eyes die on day 250, there were 249 blue-eyes.

2 nights had suicides involved: the 249th night and the 250th night, of the blues and browns respectively.

I don't know the mathematical concept behind this, but it is derived from simple logic.

MonsterERB is right. I used what he said and came up with the solution, making a couple of assumptions. Solution in spoilers below.

[spoiler]Assuming the civilization knows that there are at least one brown-eyed and one blue-eyed person. I assume that either the meeting gave them the logic to know how this works or the fact that there is at least one of each.

SITUATION 1

Logic 1: Blue-eyed person sees all brown-eyed people, kills himself knowing he has blue eyes.

Logic 2: Brown-eyed people see one blue-eyed person. They don't know whether they are blue-eyed or brown-eyed because there is at least one, so they don't kill themselves.

THE NEXT DAY

Logic 3: Seeing the blue-eyed man killed himself, they understand logic 1 and know that there was only 1 blue-eyed person. Now knowing there are brown-eyed, the rest of the civilization kills themselves.

Say there are 2 blue-eyed people:

SITUATION 2

Logic 1: Blue-eyed people see one more blue-eyed person and other brown-eyes. They know nothing, so they don't kill themselves.

Logic 2: Brown-eyed people see 2 blue-eyes, other brown-eyes. They know nothing, so no suicides.

THE NEXT DAY

Logic 3: Blue-eyed people know that there isn't just one blue-eyed person, because he would have killed himself like in situation 1. He now knows there are at least 2. Seeing only 1 more blue-eyed person, they each know they are blue-eyed and kill themselves.

Logic 4: Brown-eyes know there are at least 2, and nothing else on this day.

THE NEXT DAY

Logic 5: Brown-eyes realize that blue-eyeds killed themselves, know logic 3, kill selves knowing they have brown eyes.

So essentially, if there are X number of blue-eyes, they die on the Xth day. Brown-eyes die on day X + 1.

The exact same logic is being applied with opposite eye colours as well. Brown-eyes die on day X, blue-eyes on day X + 1.

However, since we know that brown-eyes die later, the "X number" for them must be higher than for the blue-eyes. Thus, there are more brown-eyes than blue-eyes.

Since Brown-eyes die on day 250, there were 249 blue-eyes.

2 nights had suicides involved: the 249th night and the 250th night, of the blues and browns respectively.

I don't know the mathematical concept behind this, but it is derived from simple logic.[/spoiler]

TorabisuDandois

2006-09-07 05:43:44 pm

There is a HUGE flaw in this riddle. Right after the war against the greens, they made those rules. Well, the only people left were the blue and brown eyed people, and so they probably new what color they were before the first war! They all should of commited suicide at midnight right after the rules were made.

SamuraiSamus

2006-09-07 10:17:45 pm

Beware: off duty ninja

I've thought a fair bit on this, and the is plainly obvious. the answer is 42 (seriously, I have absolutely no idea. but reading some of the solutons you guys posted has been mentally stimulating)

Mr. Aran

2006-09-07 10:34:30 pm

everybody knows it's true

http://answer42.ytmnd.com/

DominicanZero

2006-09-08 10:50:47 am

直死の魔眼使い

But of course!! 42's the answer to everything!! :P

On second thought, I got y'all another riddle. Ironically, it has a bit to do with eye color too. :P
____________________________________________

During the middle ages, a young farmer was sentenced to death by the high court of a king for asking the hand of his daughter, the princess, without having where to live with her or how to provide her a proper home. However, the man asked for a final grace before being taken in by the executioner, and requests to be given a final chance to win the hand of the king's daughter in marriage... The king, considering he has nothing to lose (or does he?), he decides to place him in the middle of a strange riddle.

Five beautiful, delicate maidens are called into the royal room, with deep, thick veils covering their eyes. They gracefully present a reverence to the king and his high court, and then stand in a straight line, one beside the other, in front of the young man. The king then explains:

"Allow me to introduce you to my most beautiful slaves, which I bought most recently to the neighboring king for the most outrageous amount of gold. Still, they were completely worth it.

"You might be asking yourself what do they have to do with your final grace. Well, you see, two of them have black eyes, and always tell the truth; the other three have blue eyes and always lie. Without lifting the veils off their faces, you must determine who has what eye color. If you can manage that, then I concede your wish of marrying my daughter. However, you will have to do that under these conditions:
a. You can only ask three questions to any of them.
b. You cannot ask two questions to the same maiden.
c. You can only ask them questions easy enough that they're able to answer them.

"If you are able to solve this under these conditions, not only your wish will be conceded, but half of my kingdom will be yours. Well? Do you accept the challenge?"

Confident, the man agrees, and proceeds with the interrogation.

He approaches the first girl to the far right, and asks her, "What color are your eyes?"

But for some strange reason, the girl answers in swahili (or whatever other strange language you prefer), completely unintelligible for everyone else in the room. Immediately, the king angrily orders that all answers are given in an understandable language; however, the young man had just lost one of his questions... And for some reason, a strange smile had flashed by his lips.

As he continued, he asked the next girl on the left, "What did your friend just answer?" The maiden answered, "She said, 'my eyes are blue', sir".

This, however, didn't clear the situation any more; nonetheless, a calm expression reigned over the farmer's face. Using up his third and final question, he asked the girl in the middle, "What are the eye colors of the girls I just questioned?" And the young beauty answered, "The first one has black eyes, and the second one has blue eyes, sir".

As soon as this was said, two guards courteously pulled back the farmer so he wasn't allowed to ask any more questions, and made him sit on a chair in front of the king, who asked him:

"Have you figured out my riddle yet, my dear man?"

And, to everyone's surprise...

"As a matter of fact, oh Your Highness!, I have." Atonished looks littered the place. "And it's rather simple: The first girl on the right has black eyes, the second on her left has blue eyes, the one in the middle has black eyes, and the remaining two have blue eyes."

The king immediately ordered for the maidens' veils to be lifted, and sure enough, their eye colors were exactly as the young man had said. True to his word, the king then ordered his absolution, and prepared everything for the marriage of his daughter with the exceptionally intelligent farmer, also giving him half of his kingdom, as he had promised.
____________________________________________

Now, the question stands: How was the young man able to determine the eye color of all five slaves, given the questions he asked and the answers he got? ;)

But of course!! 42's the answer to everything!! :P

On second thought, I got y'all another riddle. Ironically, it has a bit to do with eye color too. :P
____________________________________________

During the middle ages, a young farmer was sentenced to death by the high court of a king for asking the hand of his daughter, the princess, without having where to live with her or how to provide her a proper home. However, the man asked for a final grace before being taken in by the executioner, and requests to be given a final chance to win the hand of the king's daughter in marriage... The king, considering he has nothing to lose (or does he?), he decides to place him in the middle of a strange riddle.

Five beautiful, delicate maidens are called into the royal room, with deep, thick veils covering their eyes. They gracefully present a reverence to the king and his high court, and then stand in a straight line, one beside the other, in front of the young man. The king then explains:

"Allow me to introduce you to my most beautiful slaves, which I bought most recently to the neighboring king for the most outrageous amount of gold. Still, they were completely worth it.

"You might be asking yourself what do they have to do with your final grace. Well, you see, two of them have black eyes, and always tell the truth; the other three have blue eyes and always lie. Without lifting the veils off their faces, you must determine who has what eye color. If you can manage that, then I concede your wish of marrying my daughter. However, you will have to do that under these conditions:
a. You can only ask three questions to any of them.
b. You cannot ask two questions to the same maiden.
c. You can only ask them questions easy enough that they're able to answer them.

"If you are able to solve this under these conditions, not only your wish will be conceded, but half of my kingdom will be yours. Well? Do you accept the challenge?"

Confident, the man agrees, and proceeds with the interrogation.

He approaches the first girl to the far right, and asks her, "What color are your eyes?"

But for some strange reason, the girl answers in swahili (or whatever other strange language you prefer), completely unintelligible for everyone else in the room. Immediately, the king angrily orders that all answers are given in an understandable language; however, the young man had just lost one of his questions... And for some reason, a strange smile had flashed by his lips.

As he continued, he asked the next girl on the left, "What did your friend just answer?" The maiden answered, "She said, 'my eyes are blue', sir".

This, however, didn't clear the situation any more; nonetheless, a calm expression reigned over the farmer's face. Using up his third and final question, he asked  the girl in the middle, "What are the eye colors of the girls I just questioned?" And the young beauty answered, "The first one has black eyes, and the second one has blue eyes, sir".

As soon as this was said, two guards courteously pulled back the farmer so he wasn't allowed to ask any more questions, and made him sit on a chair in front of the king, who asked him:

"Have you figured out my riddle yet, my dear man?"

And, to everyone's surprise...

"As a matter of fact, oh Your Highness!, I have." Atonished looks littered the place. "And it's rather simple: The first girl on the right has black eyes, the second on her left has blue eyes, the one in the middle has black eyes, and the remaining two have blue eyes."

The king immediately ordered for the maidens' veils to be lifted, and sure enough, their eye colors were exactly as the young man had said. True to his word, the king then ordered his absolution, and prepared everything for the marriage of his daughter with the exceptionally intelligent farmer, also giving him half of his kingdom, as he had promised.
____________________________________________

Now, the question stands: How was the young man able to determine the eye color of all five slaves, given the questions he asked and the answers he got? ;)

Purple Lizard

2006-09-08 12:53:21 pm

I guess I'll go ahead and answer, since this type of riddle is just so common.

gogogo T/F logic cases! :D

The first girl's answer is easy to determine regardless of what language she said it in, because she would answer black, regardless of her eye color. If she had blue eyes, she'd lie and say black, and if she had black eyes, she'd tell the truth and say black.

Now, if the second girl's eyes are black, she'd tell the truth and say that the first girl said she had black eyes. However, the story says she responded that the first girl said she had blue eyes, which means she's lying, therefore she HAS to have blue eyes.

This brings us to the third girl. Since we know for certain now that the second girl has blue eyes, and she says the second girl has blue eyes, she has to be telling the truth, which makes her a black-eyed girl. That means her other statement is true, that the first girl has black eyes. Since there are only 2 black eyed girls, the other two must be blue.

Good times, DZ. Good times.

I guess I'll go ahead and answer, since this type of riddle is just so common.

[spoiler]gogogo T/F logic cases! :D

The first girl's answer is easy to determine regardless of what language she said it in, because she would answer black, regardless of her eye color.  If she had blue eyes, she'd lie and say black, and if she had black eyes, she'd tell the truth and say black.

Now, if the second girl's eyes are black, she'd tell the truth and say that the first girl said she had black eyes.  However, the story says she responded that the first girl said she had blue eyes, which means she's lying, therefore she HAS to have blue eyes.

This brings us to the third girl.  Since we know for certain now that the second girl has blue eyes, and she says the second girl has blue eyes, she has to be telling the truth, which makes her a black-eyed girl.  That means her other statement is true, that the first girl has black eyes.  Since there are only 2 black eyed girls, the other two must be blue.[/spoiler]

Good times, DZ.  Good times.

DominicanZero

2006-09-08 02:39:50 pm

直死の魔眼使い

Indeed, great times. It's been a while since someone solved that riddle without needing hints from me. :P Great job, Lizard, great job. :) Now place another one. :-D

Purple Lizard

2006-09-08 05:29:40 pm

I guess I'll post an easy one. It's all math, really.

1) Ten years from now Rob will be twice as old as Jen was when Lucy was nine times as old as Rob.

2) Eight years ago, Lucy was half as old as Jen will be when Jen is one year older than Rob will be at the time when Lucy will be five times as old as Rob will be two years from now.

3) When Rob was one year old, Lucy was three years older than Rob will be when Jen is three times as old as Lucy was six years before the time when Jen was half as old as Rob will be when Lucy will be ten years older than Lucy was when Jen was one-third as old as Rob will be when Lucy will be three times as old as she was when Jen was born.

HOW OLD ARE THEY NOW?