Agoraphobic Coma-Inducing Insanity

2006-07-20 02:34:10 pm

Cook of the Sea

This does not even slightly resemble poetry. The only reason it may appear to be poetry to some is because it's arranged in lines and verses. But it's just a bunch of rambling sentences and sentence fragments about nonsensical stuff that sounds "dark", without any thought given to meter or form or even any kind of pacing at all.

arkarian

2006-07-20 03:06:57 pm

red chamber dream

I agree with everything Saber just said and would like to add an example:

Quote:

Unknown therefore corrupt
Endowed with a will
A permission to kill
Mercy free chambers

What is that last line supposed to mean? Again, it sounds like you're just randomly throwing in stuff, just like the four lines I quoted from your last poem. "A permission to kill mercy free chambers" means nothing.

One part that could have potential is this:

Quote:

Tens of thousands
Of men, all in a row
Marching in a line

You could reword it to, for example:

Quote:

Thousands of soldiers
Assemble their ranks
Staring down the line,

and add another three lines, with the last line rhyming with the third:

Quote:

Begin to advance,
Callously killing,
Each marching in time.

Now you'd have the beginnings of meter/rhyme: the basic elements of poetry. I'm not saying that what I just made up in thirty seconds is good poetry (in terms of word choice, at least) by any means (definitely not something I'd write if given the choice), but it at least has a certain form: see how I have five syllables in each line? That's called meter, albeit a pretty basic one. It's not in pentameter (I'd suggest iambic pentameter if you want an easy meter to follow) or anything, but it will do - the five syllables per line create a sort of "beat" that you follow when reading it either aloud or in your head. Also, it's good to have some alliteration (repeated sounds), such as my "Callously killing" line.

Also, it's better to combine words if you can, such as changing "mercy free chambers" to "merciless chambers". However, still, neither phrase makes sense, as chambers (objects) don't have human attributes such as mercilessness, unless you're personifying, which is another poetic element entirely, and, believe me, that's not good personification.
Remember, the more wordy you are, the more boring and difficult to read your poetry (or most any kind of writing) will be. That's one thing that's really hard for me as well, since I tend to want to be as wordy as possible.

Just some suggestions if you want to write better poetry. :/

I agree with everything Saber just said and would like to add an example:
[quote]Unknown therefore corrupt
Endowed with a will
A permission to kill
Mercy free chambers[/quote]
What is that last line supposed to mean? Again, it sounds like you're just randomly throwing in stuff, just like the four lines I quoted from your last poem. "A permission to kill mercy free chambers" means nothing.

One part that could have potential is this:
[quote]Tens of thousands
Of men, all in a row
Marching in a line [/quote]
You could reword it to, for example:
[quote]Thousands of soldiers
Assemble their ranks
Staring down the line,[/quote]
and add another three lines, with the last line rhyming with the third: 
[quote]Begin to advance,
Callously killing,
Each marching in time.[/quote]
Now you'd have the beginnings of meter/rhyme: the basic elements of poetry. I'm not saying that what I just made up in thirty seconds is good poetry (in terms of word choice, at least) by any means (definitely not something I'd write if given the choice), but it at least has a certain form: see how I have five syllables in each line? That's called meter, albeit a pretty basic one. It's not in pentameter (I'd suggest [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iambic_pentameter]iambic pentameter[/url] if you want an easy meter to follow) or anything, but it will do - the five syllables per line create a sort of "beat" that you follow when reading it either aloud or in your head. Also, it's good to have some alliteration (repeated sounds), such as my "[u]C[/u]allously [u]k[/u]illing" line.

Also, it's better to combine words if you can, such as changing "mercy free chambers" to "merciless chambers". However, still, neither phrase makes sense, as chambers (objects) don't have human attributes such as mercilessness, unless you're personifying, which is another poetic element entirely, and, believe me, that's not good personification.
Remember, the more wordy you are, the more boring and difficult to read your poetry (or most any kind of writing) will be. That's one thing that's really hard for me as well, since I tend to want to be as wordy as possible.

Just some suggestions if you want to write better poetry. :/

SABERinBLUE

2006-07-20 03:16:24 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from Arkarian:

Just some suggestions if you want to write better poetry. :/

Quote from Arkarian:

Just some suggestions if you want to write poetry. :/

fixed.

arkarian

2006-07-20 03:19:25 pm

red chamber dream

Ah, yeah, he's got a point. A piece of writing is not poetry unless it has basic meter and/or form. As you obviously know, extra like alliteration, personification, and even rhyme aren't necessary (though they often make it better), but you've gotta have the meter/form.

13M13

2006-07-20 09:22:36 pm

l'appel du vide

Well...not necessarily...

arkarian

2006-07-20 10:16:06 pm

red chamber dream

Yeah, pretty much. Notice how I said "meter/form". For example, e. e. cummings does not include much, if any, meter (rhythm) in his poems at all, but his excellent form is what carries them. Kratos's above poem has neither meter nor good form.

Kratos

2006-07-25 10:52:57 am

Well, if you notice, in my first post, i said, "I don't like calling them poems" it is because these are my favorites (the second one thus far) of what i've wrote and ummmm.....

A) Free-Verse
B ) They (as in the second one) were written as Metal (Adema/Atryu hybrid rambling [mosh pit stuff basically]) song which can (if done properly) can be 'bent' any way you want.

P.S. any reference to they (as in my "writings") are refering to the majority of my past stuff.

SABERinBLUE

2006-07-25 11:49:40 am

Cook of the Sea

Whatever you want to call them, they still don't work at all.

Kratos

2006-07-25 11:53:58 am

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

Whatever you want to call them, they still don't work at all.

Why not Free-Verse has no definite meter/form, also on paper they have form :)

arkarian

2006-07-25 12:25:23 pm

red chamber dream

No. What you have written does not have form and is not free verse, whether it be on paper or on the screen. Free verse has form.
It's time to bring out my favourite piece by e e cummings:

Quote from e e cummings:

1(a

le
af
fa
ll

s)
one
l

iness

Give that a read, and you'll at first think it's solely comprised of random letters and doesn't make any sense. Read again, and you'll realise that this is one of cummings's most prominent examples of form. You cannot just throw together random words, phrases, and pieces of angsty imagery and call it a poem or even a good work of any kind. In the above piece, cummings has created an effect which pulls the reader's eye downward, confusing it at first. The short lines plainly cause a vertical effect, making something beautiful from something simple. Now, your songs/poetry/whatever doesn't have to be really complex (or really simple) but, if you're going for form, needs to be pleasing to the eye at the very least.

You could also choose to just have a steady meter in your work, which is far easier to do for most writers. I elaborated on that in my third post back.

Also, you have to realise that songs and poetry use the same fundamentals. Songs probably have an even steadier beat the most poetry, so, if you're using these as songs (metal or not), they need to follow a pattern, like the one in my example above (try looking at the iambic pentameter link I gave you, and going from there).

Finally, you've said, both here and on irc, that you're writing this for yourself; you've said that "it is more for [your] mental "stability" and treatment thananything [sic] when [you] wrote that". If it's for yourself alone, then there should be no need to share it with us. By posting it on the forum, you are automatically opening your work up for criticism, and if you don't want to improve or even listen to our advice in any way, then you'd be better off not posting your work at all.

If you do want to take our advice, then I would suggest working on one item of my third post back at a time. For example, you might want to start with alliteration and including some of that in your work. Then move to trying some personification or better imagery, but don't get too crazy, or else it will sound stuffy and stupid (hey, some alliteration right there! ... but it doesn't follow a beat, so it sucks). The internet is also a big help for more information; it's lots better than I am.

Have to go to the dentist; will write more later if you want.

No. What you have written does not have form and is not free verse, whether it be on paper or on the screen. Free verse has form.
It's time to bring out my favourite piece by e e cummings:

[quote="e e cummings"]1(a

le
af
fa
ll

s)
one
l

iness[/quote]
Give that a read, and you'll at first think it's solely comprised of random letters and doesn't make any sense.  Read again, and you'll realise that this is one of cummings's most prominent examples of form. You [b]cannot[/b] just throw together random words, phrases, and pieces of angsty imagery and call it a poem or even a good work of any kind. In the above piece, cummings has created an effect which pulls the reader's eye downward, confusing it at first. The short lines plainly cause a vertical effect, making something beautiful from something simple. Now, your songs/poetry/whatever doesn't have to be really complex (or really simple) but, if you're going for form, needs to be pleasing to the eye at the very least.

You could also choose to just have a steady meter in your work, which is far easier to do for most writers. I elaborated on that in my third post back.

Also, you have to realise that [u][i]songs and poetry use the same fundamentals[/i][/u]. Songs probably have an even steadier beat the most poetry, so, if you're using these as songs (metal or not), they need to follow a pattern, like the one in my example above (try looking at the iambic pentameter link I gave you, and going from there).

Finally, you've said, both here and on irc, that you're writing this for yourself; you've said that "it is more for [your] mental "stability" and treatment thananything [sic] when [you] wrote that". If it's for yourself alone, then there should be no need to share it with us. By posting it on the forum, you are automatically opening your work up for criticism, and if you don't want to improve or even listen to our advice in any way, then you'd be better off not posting your work at all.

If you [i]do[/i] want to take our advice, then I would suggest working on one item of my third post back at a time. For example, you might want to start with alliteration and including some of that in your work. Then move to trying some personification or better imagery, but don't get too crazy, or else it will sound stuffy and stupid (hey, some alliteration right there! ... but it doesn't follow a beat, so it sucks). The internet is also a big help for more information; it's lots better than I am.

Have to go to the dentist; will write more later if you want.

spineshark

2006-07-25 01:20:37 pm

in the name of justice!

Quote from Arkarian:

Quote from e e cummings:

1(a

le
af
fa
ll

s)
one
l

iness

hahaha, 1ee7 cummings!

damn, i don't have anything to add now. i don't really know anything about poetry, although it at least annoys me less now than it did before.

Kratos

2006-07-26 10:11:31 am

yea, i'm working on something that is kinda a "forbidden topic" for me, if you will. give me a week or so.

arkarian

2006-07-26 10:54:14 am

red chamber dream

Just be sure to give all of our suggestions a try.