ibbf speedrun

2006-06-20 07:16:10 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Doesn't entering the Life Grove sw require power bombs since it's behind the wall?

2006-06-20 07:31:34 pm

I was talking about the wall INSIDE Life Grove. Without power bombs to blow up that wall would it even be possible to collect both items? What about the little spiky blue guy... isn't he programmed to only drop power bombs? What would happen if you collected a pb refill without the ability to use them (and would he drop pbs at all if you couldn't use them? I think some sort of test is in order...

rekameohs

2006-06-20 07:41:41 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

I know what you were talking about MERB just said that you could wallcrawl past all that and wallcrawl back but afaik it's impossible.

Interesting theory about the seedling dropping pb refills, might try it sometime.

bushwacker

2006-06-20 07:53:01 pm

I dont think MERB had the right idea, he said "get artifact and x-ray" in one lump, not really taking the wall/problem into account :-s

SkippyJr

2006-06-20 08:04:32 pm

Quote from LeCoureur103:

That's a really awesome trick; is there a hole in the ceiling or did you pass through the sticky wall somehow?

For Master ZED's video, this is a technique which was learned from Echoes. If the map is focused on a room different from where you are, the walls are glitchy. See the IS topic for one manifestation. For what happens here, if you land unmorphed on a some section of the ceiling (which always seem to be non-smooth), you can fall right through. (There always seems to be a flash associated with it, dunno what that represents.)

As for Life Grove, one can easily get the Artifact from an SW state, but not the X-Ray visor.

Master ZED

2006-06-20 09:45:23 pm

Quote from LeCoureur103:

There are secret worlds in Great Tree Chamber and Life Grove, right? So right after Ice Beam, could you use them to wallcrawl in and out of Life Grove to score the X-Ray Visor and Artifact? There's the bendezium wall in Life Grove though, which could complicate things... If this could be done, how might it affect the route?

Well, the wall at Life Grove and the block at Life Grove tunnel block access to the X-Ray visor normally, but you could retrieve the visor without Power Bombs succesfully with Infinite Speed (meaning you need Boost Ball). Yes, the visor would warp you to its location, however IS also triggers the Chozo Ghosts here; if you let their longer cutscene play out, you'll be warped out onto the ledges where the fight is normally triggered.

How to (I haven't played with this beyond testing the possibility, so feel free to experiment): erroneously load Life Grove and warp into the first part of the room (where the tunnel ends). Press your back against the right (tunnel entrance's left) side of the wall where the tunnel begins, and charge up IS. Do a short boost to escape the wall, correct the map, then use IS. Let both cutscenes play out, and when the Chozo Ghost one ends, you'll be able to escape through Life Grove's SW since both cutscenes are capable of curing you of IS and the light show.

A video can be arranged, but it won't be the full crawl to Life Grove and back, just what I've described here. Note that IS does NOT retrieve the artifact, which is unfortunate. The only reason I'm not posting a video right now is because I don't think this will ultimately be of any use since we need Boost Ball first. If I'm wrong, though, I'll certainly make one.

[quote="LeCoureur103"]There are secret worlds in Great Tree Chamber and Life Grove, right? So right after Ice Beam, could you use them to wallcrawl in and out of Life Grove to score the X-Ray Visor and Artifact? There's the bendezium wall in Life Grove though, which could complicate things... If this could be done, how might it affect the route?[/quote]Well, the wall at Life Grove and the block at Life Grove tunnel block access to the X-Ray visor normally, but you could retrieve the visor without Power Bombs succesfully with Infinite Speed (meaning you need Boost Ball).  Yes, the visor would warp you to its location, however IS also triggers the Chozo Ghosts here; if you let their longer cutscene play out, you'll be warped out onto the ledges where the fight is normally triggered.

How to (I haven't played with this beyond testing the possibility, so feel free to experiment): erroneously load Life Grove and warp into the first part of the room (where the tunnel ends).  Press your back against the right (tunnel entrance's left) side of the wall where the tunnel begins, and charge up IS.  Do a short boost to escape the wall, correct the map, then use IS.  Let both cutscenes play out, and when the Chozo Ghost one ends, you'll be able to escape through Life Grove's SW since both cutscenes are capable of curing you of IS and the light show.

A video can be arranged, but it won't be the full crawl to Life Grove and back, just what I've described here.  Note that IS does NOT retrieve the artifact, which is unfortunate.  The only reason I'm not posting a video right now is because I don't think this will ultimately be of any use since we need Boost Ball first.  If I'm wrong, though, I'll certainly make one.

rekameohs

2006-06-20 09:52:53 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Too bad it requires boost otherwise we would have xray right after ice.

bushwacker

2006-06-20 10:02:12 pm

Okay but what if you did all that without doing ibbf? Boost->Wave->Ice like normal?

MonsterERB

2006-06-20 11:08:02 pm

Quote from LeCoureur103:

I dont think MERB had the right idea, he said "get artifact and x-ray" in one lump, not really taking the wall/problem into account :-s

* slaps head *
I knew there was something I was forgetting. You could warp in and get either Xray or Chozo; getting both would require a powerbomb.
* slaps head again *
For maximum convenience, why couldn't Retro have put a powerbomb expansion right outside the door to Life Grove Tunnel, at the top of Great Tree Hall? That would have made life much easier. Rolling Eyes

Master ZED

2006-06-20 11:15:08 pm

Would it be possible to use a UBJ to get back through the hole in the ceiling if you beat the Chozo Ghosts first, then collect the X-Ray visor? I can't do that jump, so I can't test it.

EDIT: It's also incredibly small, so aligning the ball correctly alone may be a major headache.

bushwacker

2006-06-20 11:51:02 pm

Don't know if a ubj would get the height, though it might. And if it didn't, you could still probably get into the tunnel, get an instant unmorph, and bsj up out of it. Might be worth testing.

smilingjack13

2006-06-21 02:15:30 am

Quote from LeCoureur103:

Okay but what if you did all that without doing ibbf? Boost->Wave->Ice like normal?

That's an interesting thought. Plasma beam seems to be the main problem to me. The artifact in Hall of Elders that requires plasma beam would have to be obtained later, so that would be a huge detour. It would put you right back beside Life Grove anyway. If it wasn't for that artifact, you could head into the mines the first time with X-Ray Visor, emerge in Magmoor to grab the plasma beam, then go straight back into PPC and carry on to beat OP... But then you would still have to get the Artifact of Warrior at some point.

And I quickly tried to UBJ up through the morph ball tunnel in Life Grove, and I wasn't getting the height. I could reach the bottom of the tunnel, but I really didn't have the height to start going up into it. And I don't think a UBJ would work because I couldn't drop into or jump into the tunnel when I was unmorphed.

bushwacker

2006-06-21 09:41:27 am

Ah that's right, there's the little overhanging beak over the hole :x

Can the infinite speed bug be used to get the power bomb expansions in either Magma Pool or Ice Ruins East?

bartendorsparky

2006-06-21 11:39:28 am

always move fast

made a video of what i do for ibbf. not sure what is old/obsolete, but i think its pretty good. afaik what i did should work every time without much frustration, except for the occasional furnace freeze.furnace and the room after are really bad in particular in the video, but thats ok because its not the segment. video is 2:54, from entering the sw to entering crossway (zed's method), so a 3-4 minutes segment could definitely be done.

http://bartendorsparky.paragonsigma.com/ibbf.avi

note: if the video doesn't work, wait a while a try again. =p

tuomii

2006-06-21 01:21:47 pm

wow

impressive I didin't know you could fall trough the roof. 3-4 min segment thats really good.

Andrew Mills

2006-06-21 05:14:00 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from bartendorsparky:

made a video of what i do for ibbf. not sure what is old/obsolete, but i think its pretty good. afaik what i did should work every time without much frustration, except for the occasional furnace freeze.furnace and the room after are really bad in particular in the video, but thats ok because its not the segment. video is 2:54, from entering the sw to entering crossway (zed's method), so a 3-4 minutes segment could definitely be done.

http://bartendorsparky.paragonsigma.com/ibbf.avi

note: if the video doesn't work, wait a while a try again. =p

I have to hand it to you sparky, that's defanitely impressive. 8-) You waltz through that without really dumping any of the previous rooms, and you've refined the standable spots for speed. I can imagine you've practiced the IBBF alot (and it shows).

I tip my hat off to you sir, you've made the IBBF even more feasible in a "normal" run. Well done. :D

Master ZED

2006-06-21 06:19:51 pm

Quote from LeCoureur103:

Can the infinite speed bug be used to get the power bomb expansions in either Magma Pool or Ice Ruins East?

IRE is a no go, but Magma Pool can be done. You'd have to charge up in either Gathering Hall or Sunchamber Access IIRC, go to Magma Pool, boost, then probably ditch IS at Gathering Hall's save station.

bartendorsparky

2006-06-21 07:09:34 pm

always move fast

6 times in a row now, i've gotten "disc-read errors" when fighting incinerator drone. im assuming i need to clean the disc/cube, but dont know what to do. any suggestions?

bushwacker

2006-06-21 07:18:49 pm

Okay then, Magma Pool is much better anyway! How about routewise:

Early Ice->Boost/Wave-> Plasma-> Lifegiver-> World-> X-ray/Chozo-> Main PB -> Newborn/Phazon Suit -> ummmmmmm bleh I dunno where to go from there. I'm just really set on catching X-ray early and making the Mines go as efficiently as possible. But making such a route actually be efficient is looking very difficult indeed...

trh

2006-06-21 07:26:00 pm

Quote from bartendorsparky:

6 times in a row now, i've gotten "disc-read errors" when fighting incinerator drone. im assuming i need to clean the disc/cube, but dont know what to do. any suggestions?

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-dvd/thread.cgi?1536

I could never try something like that myself though...

rekameohs

2006-06-21 11:02:06 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Quote from LeCoureur103:

Okay then, Magma Pool is much better anyway! How about routewise:

Early Ice->Boost/Wave-> Plasma-> Lifegiver-> World-> X-ray/Chozo-> Main PB -> Newborn/Phazon Suit -> ummmmmmm bleh I dunno where to go from there. I'm just really set on catching X-ray early and making the Mines go as efficiently as possible. But making such a route actually be efficient is looking very difficult indeed...

The only problem I see is Warrior. It's either get Spider Ball or two trip the mines. Is the a way to use the IS bug to get the cutscene of the phazon elite breaking out to appear.

bushwacker

2006-06-21 11:20:36 pm

Seems like I read somewhere you can't IS the Warrior cutscene.

Without spider there's no way you can do a one-trip mines is there... Dammit I guess all my musings are pointless.

We need 1) a way to fight Omega without x-ray or 2) a way back up through the bombu shaft in the mines. Maybe even 3), something I can't think of.

nate

2006-06-21 11:49:19 pm

imho 2) is more likely. sess looked at it a long time ago and was only able to climb part of the way up, and while i'm sure he knew what he was doing, i'm also sure there have been some insights into climbing in difficult areas since then.

bartendorsparky

2006-06-22 05:16:05 pm

always move fast

http://bartendorsparky.paragonsigma.com/

segments 2 & 3 are up. both are nothing special (4:28.78 escape, and segment three is just meh), but saved at ~10:53. this is the fun part anyway. i think im gonna end up going through crossway rather than zed's way, but we'll see.

AngerFist

2006-06-22 06:59:47 pm

Segment 2 and 3 were obviously good. However, one minor thing if you are aiming for total perfection, try to rememeber shooting at the doors a little earlier so you dont have to wait for them to open.