Hi everybody!
hi dr. nick
Alright, here's the deal. A while back, while I was still on haitus from the fusion run and all you freaks, I was catching up on all my other Nintendo games. One of these was the magical bonus zelda disc (mario kart + 1080 = happy sess) with one of my favorite classics, Zelda II.
As most NES games, by today's standards it's... lacking in replayability. But hey, most games released even nowadays are. That's why we speed run and low% run and what not.
So anyways, I beat it once, then I beat it in one sitting to get a perfect 000 game. Then I said "I really liked that game. There must be something else I can do"
And I decided to try a low level game. I checked the faqs and boards on gamefaqs and was sorely disappointed with what I found.
Apparently, the best these people could come up with was capping out one stat and staying level 1 in the other three. For shame! We can do better than this, can't we?
So I decided to. There's problems though.
See, the first 2 times you gain enough exp to level up, you can pass. But the third time (when you have enough exp to level up ANY of your three stats), you are forced to level up. At level 1-1-1, the cap is 200. Go above that and you are forced to level up.
Considering most bosses give you significantly more than that (thunderbird gives a thousand
) that isn't going to work. To beat the game, you need to gain SOME levels, somewhere.
But seriously, maxing out a stat? That's rather... EXCESSIVE isn't it? We can avoid that easy.
A long and harrowing journey ensued, which was chronicled on the gamefaqs zelda II board (my name at the time was Grodd, as in gorilla, as in the Flash villain) and the topic was something like, 'is it possible to beat the game entirely at level 1' or some such. That topic is gone now
I won't go into the journey here, sufficed to say, no one cared. But maybe someone here will care, so here's what I come up with. I call it a 2-3-3 game. This would be the ultimate low level game.
See a low level game in zelda II is all about not killing. It becomes a test of just how much CAN you survive without killing absolutely ANYTHING. That's the challenge. Dodge rather than force your way through. Constantly.
Pretty fun actually. I think at least. But this was the result of me stewing over numbers for a while. Here, lemme give you some numbers.
These are lists of how much experience is required to reach level x in a stat.
Level 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Attack 200 500 1000 2000 3000 5000 8000
Magic 100 300 700 1200 2200 3500 6000
Life 50 150 400 800 1500 2500 4000
And here is the list of experience that bosses give
Horsehead 50
Helmethead 200
Ironknuckle 300
Carock 300
Gooma 500
Barba 700
Thunderbird 1000
Keep in mind, there is also an ironknuckle (the mounted boss kind) in Barba's palace that you have to kill. This, totalled, is all the required kills in the game.
Notice I said AN ironknuckle in barba's palace. There is also a 2nd ironknuckle in barba's palace before the palace treasure, the cross. Catch is, you do not need the cross to beat the game :P
Now, point #1: Whenever you save your game, your experience resets to zero. So you can kill things along the way to an important item, then just reset once you have it, as long as you don't go over the exp cap.
Point #2: You don't have to beat these bosses in order. You can slip into a palace, grab the treasure, then save the game (killing
Point #3: When you place a crystal in a palace, it will raise your exp automatically and probably force a level up. BUT, you can pause and do the X bit to save WHILE the number is counting up. You will then restart the game with 0, and the palace will still be cleared.
Point #4: That doesn't work for bosses. In order for bosses to stay dead, you must grab the key the drop. No, you do NOT have enough time to do this before the exp finishes counting up and forcing you to level up :(
Point #5: Exp can be divided between stats, if you know how. For example, if you beat barba at level 1-1-1, you will gain 700 exp points. Put 200 of them into raising attack a level, then put 50 of them in to raising life a level, then you get 450 points more. The experience cap is 500 when your attack is at level 2, so you won't be forced to level up again.
Alright, on to how exactly you accomplish a 2-3-3 game. The 2 is attack by the way, the 3's are life and magic. The exp cap at this point is 700. Having level 3 magic is what determines that. you could be at level 1-3-1 and still have an exp cap of 700 before you are forced to level up.
In order to do this, pretty much ALL of the game will be played at level 1-2-1 (2 being life). The only reason it's not ALL at level 1, is life requires so little exp to level up to 2, that it will never be of any use in siphoning exp away. EVER! Which means you are ALLOWED to be at level 2 life. By no means does this mean you have to be, but I would if I were you.
What you are going to do is raid all the palaces of their treasures (you may clear the first palace the first time through if you choose, horsehead gives peanuts experience). However, after horsehead, every boss gives 200 experience, which is your cap. Which means you cannot kill any. You're going to need to get to BARBA with no level higher than 1-2-1.
So you're going to raid all the palaces of their treasures, being careful to never go over 200 exp along the way. Once you learn fairy, you can move through locked doors. So that'll help lots in avoiding having to fight people for keys and things.
And of course, you can always kill yourself to refill magic. Why in several palaces you never even NEED to touch a key to get to the treasure, if you abuse fairy.
Now, in the Barba palace, your 1-2-1 self is going to fight the mounted ironknuckle, who gives 300 exp points. You are going to need to level up magic once, here, which will take 100 exp, and leave you with 200 exp, with the cap at 300. Then you get to barba, who you will kill and gain 700 exp. You will level up magic (you only need it to siphon off 1 exp point, of the 100 you have remaining, which means you could have killed 99 exp worth of minor enemies while getting here if you had to) and then the exp cap becomes 700, and there will be less than 700 leftover from barba
Then, with your exp cap at 700, you will go back and beat all the other bosses, saving to reset your exp after each if you need to. For most of them you will be able to put the crystal in the statue in the same trip.
Now then, once that is done, you go to the great palace (without the cross, fun!) and make your way to thunder bird without killing more than 50 exp worth of monsters (won't that be nice)!
Keep in mind, you can kill anyone you want going TO the great palace, then kill yourself to reset to 0 and start back AT the great palace. But while IN the great palace, can't kill anyone worth more than 50
Then at thunderbird, you are level 1-3-2. (attack-magic-life). Your exp cap is 700. You must beat thunderbird like this. Then when you beat him, you get 1000 exp. Level up attack to level 2 and life to level 3, sucking up 350 exp, leaving 650 leftover, which will not put you over 700.
And then you beat dark link and you win.
This is best described, probably not just as a low-level game, but as a low exp cap game. In other words, beating the game with the lowest exp cap possible (exp cap, again, being the minimum exp that will FORCE you to level up). At 2-3-3, you beat the game with a cap of 700. Quite a feat.
variation: Don't level up life to 2 until barba's palace. Level up magic once at the first ironknuckle, save and come back (he'll be dead if you got the key) and take on the other ironknuckle, this time leveling up life to 2 to keep from going over 300. This allows you to get the cross.
Now, if all you want to do is make it low level, then this is all you need to know. Get all the spells, and containers and items, just focus on the low level. This is hard enough.
I went on my way to do this kind of game. I got pretty far too. I got every item, spell, and container (yes even hammer) while never raising a single level. The hammer cave was very very tough. But yes, I have the save file still, level 1-1-1 with everything done but beating the bosses.
However, I didn't make progress because I decided that wasn't a perfect low% type of game. If I'm going to do this kind of thing, I only want to do it once.
So here's another variation
Skip all unnecessary spells. This means
Shield, Life, Fire and Spell Spells
And of course no spell spell means you skip the magic key too
Notice what a lovely pattern it makes to skip these things. That's every other spell, so your menu looks like it's double spaced, and the skipped items are on the ends of the list, so the ones you get are still all grouped together unbroken.
I managed to get through the hammer cave with use of shield and life. I haven't managed to do it yet without those two spells. However, I didn't try very hard, as I moved on to other things by that time. It's hard to stay focused on one thing for very long for me. Short attention span I suppose :?
Notice I did not say skip the containers. Why is that you ask?
Because that doesn't carry over. When you beat the game, your game file gets erased, and the only proof you have that you did it, is the file left it's place. A new game, with the triforce symbol proving you beat the game, and your spells and levels carry over. But containers and items do not. So if you DID skip containers, or say, the candle, it will make no difference, therefore my personal belief, is there's no point in skipping them.
What I DO want, is that file with the triforce symbol that has levels 2-3-3, with half the spells not there.
So, I didn't finish the one where I'd gotten all the spells. It wouldn't be what I want anyways. Although I can still get the candle if I want. (the hammer run at level 1-1-1 was bad enough WITH the candle, I'd rather not try without).
Anyways, there's one more condition I'd like to meet. I need to know how few saves (game overs) are necessary to complete this game. I.E. what is the minimum number of times you MUST reset in order to keep from going over the exp cap. I want to know what that number is and achieve it.
If any of you are like me (and if you were attracted to the sequence breaking portion of this site, I'm sure you are) I'd like someone to help figure this out.
'
And by help, I mean do it, because I'm busy with the fusion run, and will not have time for zelda II. But if any of you out there would like to be in on the ground floor of a low% run for a game which has never had anything like this done before, here's a nice project.
I hope this wasn't too complicated, I can clarify if anyone has questions. I tend to over-explain, I know. So yeah, here's my theoretical ultimate low% game: Level 2-3-3 (attack-magic-life) when you complete the game, and skipping the 4 un-needed spells.
And the first person to actually do this would certainly be revered in my book, and probably anyone else's who knows how dang tough this kind of thing would be. Heck, ANYONE who does it, first or not, is tops in my book. So yeah. Whatcha think?
hi dr. nick
Alright, here's the deal. A while back, while I was still on haitus from the fusion run and all you freaks, I was catching up on all my other Nintendo games. One of these was the magical bonus zelda disc (mario kart + 1080 = happy sess) with one of my favorite classics, Zelda II.
As most NES games, by today's standards it's... lacking in replayability. But hey, most games released even nowadays are. That's why we speed run and low% run and what not.
So anyways, I beat it once, then I beat it in one sitting to get a perfect 000 game. Then I said "I really liked that game. There must be something else I can do"
And I decided to try a low level game. I checked the faqs and boards on gamefaqs and was sorely disappointed with what I found.
Apparently, the best these people could come up with was capping out one stat and staying level 1 in the other three. For shame! We can do better than this, can't we?
So I decided to. There's problems though.
See, the first 2 times you gain enough exp to level up, you can pass. But the third time (when you have enough exp to level up ANY of your three stats), you are forced to level up. At level 1-1-1, the cap is 200. Go above that and you are forced to level up.
Considering most bosses give you significantly more than that (thunderbird gives a thousand
But seriously, maxing out a stat? That's rather... EXCESSIVE isn't it? We can avoid that easy.
A long and harrowing journey ensued, which was chronicled on the gamefaqs zelda II board (my name at the time was Grodd, as in gorilla, as in the Flash villain) and the topic was something like, 'is it possible to beat the game entirely at level 1' or some such. That topic is gone now
I won't go into the journey here, sufficed to say, no one cared. But maybe someone here will care, so here's what I come up with. I call it a 2-3-3 game. This would be the ultimate low level game.
See a low level game in zelda II is all about not killing. It becomes a test of just how much CAN you survive without killing absolutely ANYTHING. That's the challenge. Dodge rather than force your way through. Constantly.
Pretty fun actually. I think at least. But this was the result of me stewing over numbers for a while. Here, lemme give you some numbers.
These are lists of how much experience is required to reach level x in a stat.
Level 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Attack 200 500 1000 2000 3000 5000 8000
Magic 100 300 700 1200 2200 3500 6000
Life 50 150 400 800 1500 2500 4000
And here is the list of experience that bosses give
Horsehead 50
Helmethead 200
Ironknuckle 300
Carock 300
Gooma 500
Barba 700
Thunderbird 1000
Keep in mind, there is also an ironknuckle (the mounted boss kind) in Barba's palace that you have to kill. This, totalled, is all the required kills in the game.
Notice I said AN ironknuckle in barba's palace. There is also a 2nd ironknuckle in barba's palace before the palace treasure, the cross. Catch is, you do not need the cross to beat the game :P
Now, point #1: Whenever you save your game, your experience resets to zero. So you can kill things along the way to an important item, then just reset once you have it, as long as you don't go over the exp cap.
Point #2: You don't have to beat these bosses in order. You can slip into a palace, grab the treasure, then save the game (killing
Point #3: When you place a crystal in a palace, it will raise your exp automatically and probably force a level up. BUT, you can pause and do the X bit to save WHILE the number is counting up. You will then restart the game with 0, and the palace will still be cleared.
Point #4: That doesn't work for bosses. In order for bosses to stay dead, you must grab the key the drop. No, you do NOT have enough time to do this before the exp finishes counting up and forcing you to level up :(
Point #5: Exp can be divided between stats, if you know how. For example, if you beat barba at level 1-1-1, you will gain 700 exp points. Put 200 of them into raising attack a level, then put 50 of them in to raising life a level, then you get 450 points more. The experience cap is 500 when your attack is at level 2, so you won't be forced to level up again.
Alright, on to how exactly you accomplish a 2-3-3 game. The 2 is attack by the way, the 3's are life and magic. The exp cap at this point is 700. Having level 3 magic is what determines that. you could be at level 1-3-1 and still have an exp cap of 700 before you are forced to level up.
In order to do this, pretty much ALL of the game will be played at level 1-2-1 (2 being life). The only reason it's not ALL at level 1, is life requires so little exp to level up to 2, that it will never be of any use in siphoning exp away. EVER! Which means you are ALLOWED to be at level 2 life. By no means does this mean you have to be, but I would if I were you.
What you are going to do is raid all the palaces of their treasures (you may clear the first palace the first time through if you choose, horsehead gives peanuts experience). However, after horsehead, every boss gives 200 experience, which is your cap. Which means you cannot kill any. You're going to need to get to BARBA with no level higher than 1-2-1.
So you're going to raid all the palaces of their treasures, being careful to never go over 200 exp along the way. Once you learn fairy, you can move through locked doors. So that'll help lots in avoiding having to fight people for keys and things.
And of course, you can always kill yourself to refill magic. Why in several palaces you never even NEED to touch a key to get to the treasure, if you abuse fairy.
Now, in the Barba palace, your 1-2-1 self is going to fight the mounted ironknuckle, who gives 300 exp points. You are going to need to level up magic once, here, which will take 100 exp, and leave you with 200 exp, with the cap at 300. Then you get to barba, who you will kill and gain 700 exp. You will level up magic (you only need it to siphon off 1 exp point, of the 100 you have remaining, which means you could have killed 99 exp worth of minor enemies while getting here if you had to) and then the exp cap becomes 700, and there will be less than 700 leftover from barba
Then, with your exp cap at 700, you will go back and beat all the other bosses, saving to reset your exp after each if you need to. For most of them you will be able to put the crystal in the statue in the same trip.
Now then, once that is done, you go to the great palace (without the cross, fun!) and make your way to thunder bird without killing more than 50 exp worth of monsters (won't that be nice)!
Keep in mind, you can kill anyone you want going TO the great palace, then kill yourself to reset to 0 and start back AT the great palace. But while IN the great palace, can't kill anyone worth more than 50
Then at thunderbird, you are level 1-3-2. (attack-magic-life). Your exp cap is 700. You must beat thunderbird like this. Then when you beat him, you get 1000 exp. Level up attack to level 2 and life to level 3, sucking up 350 exp, leaving 650 leftover, which will not put you over 700.
And then you beat dark link and you win.
This is best described, probably not just as a low-level game, but as a low exp cap game. In other words, beating the game with the lowest exp cap possible (exp cap, again, being the minimum exp that will FORCE you to level up). At 2-3-3, you beat the game with a cap of 700. Quite a feat.
variation: Don't level up life to 2 until barba's palace. Level up magic once at the first ironknuckle, save and come back (he'll be dead if you got the key) and take on the other ironknuckle, this time leveling up life to 2 to keep from going over 300. This allows you to get the cross.
Now, if all you want to do is make it low level, then this is all you need to know. Get all the spells, and containers and items, just focus on the low level. This is hard enough.
I went on my way to do this kind of game. I got pretty far too. I got every item, spell, and container (yes even hammer) while never raising a single level. The hammer cave was very very tough. But yes, I have the save file still, level 1-1-1 with everything done but beating the bosses.
However, I didn't make progress because I decided that wasn't a perfect low% type of game. If I'm going to do this kind of thing, I only want to do it once.
So here's another variation
Skip all unnecessary spells. This means
Shield, Life, Fire and Spell Spells
And of course no spell spell means you skip the magic key too
Notice what a lovely pattern it makes to skip these things. That's every other spell, so your menu looks like it's double spaced, and the skipped items are on the ends of the list, so the ones you get are still all grouped together unbroken.
I managed to get through the hammer cave with use of shield and life. I haven't managed to do it yet without those two spells. However, I didn't try very hard, as I moved on to other things by that time. It's hard to stay focused on one thing for very long for me. Short attention span I suppose :?
Notice I did not say skip the containers. Why is that you ask?
Because that doesn't carry over. When you beat the game, your game file gets erased, and the only proof you have that you did it, is the file left it's place. A new game, with the triforce symbol proving you beat the game, and your spells and levels carry over. But containers and items do not. So if you DID skip containers, or say, the candle, it will make no difference, therefore my personal belief, is there's no point in skipping them.
What I DO want, is that file with the triforce symbol that has levels 2-3-3, with half the spells not there.
So, I didn't finish the one where I'd gotten all the spells. It wouldn't be what I want anyways. Although I can still get the candle if I want. (the hammer run at level 1-1-1 was bad enough WITH the candle, I'd rather not try without).
Anyways, there's one more condition I'd like to meet. I need to know how few saves (game overs) are necessary to complete this game. I.E. what is the minimum number of times you MUST reset in order to keep from going over the exp cap. I want to know what that number is and achieve it.
If any of you are like me (and if you were attracted to the sequence breaking portion of this site, I'm sure you are) I'd like someone to help figure this out.
'
And by help, I mean do it, because I'm busy with the fusion run, and will not have time for zelda II. But if any of you out there would like to be in on the ground floor of a low% run for a game which has never had anything like this done before, here's a nice project.
I hope this wasn't too complicated, I can clarify if anyone has questions. I tend to over-explain, I know. So yeah, here's my theoretical ultimate low% game: Level 2-3-3 (attack-magic-life) when you complete the game, and skipping the 4 un-needed spells.
And the first person to actually do this would certainly be revered in my book, and probably anyone else's who knows how dang tough this kind of thing would be. Heck, ANYONE who does it, first or not, is tops in my book. So yeah. Whatcha think?
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