x264

2006-01-22 07:41:26 pm

Just a few remarks:

You don't need Quicktime 7. The MP4 files can be played back by any of the following:

* Media Player Classic + ffdshow
* Any directshow player + Haali Media Splitter + ffdshow
* mplayer
* Video LAN Client
* (not tested by me) Nero Digital

I don't know if any of these could replace the browser plugin. MPC has some support for this, but I have no idea - no problem, since I just use the download link (thanks!) and open it instead of saving.

Also, you don't need Qt7 to create the files - in fact, it's better you don't use it: it's not exactly the most stellar implementation of AVC you'll ever find (and yes, it can decode MP4 files with video streams created with decent codecs, such as x264 or Nero Digital). But oh well, it's better than before :)

Thread title:

nate

2006-01-22 07:50:59 pm

could video encoded with the superior codecs be played by the quicktime plugin, though?

MP4

2006-01-22 08:12:22 pm

>> (and yes, it can decode MP4 files with video streams created with decent codecs, such as x264 or Nero Digital)

Not very well written, but that was the answer. I recall testing it and it working fine.

You can test it for yourself though - and I recommend you do:

http://own-age.com/vids/video.aspx?id=6524

Not only is a small download (87 megs, short) but also an awesome benchmark: 800x500 @ 30fps, up to 3 b-frames in a row and CABAC coding. I haven't got Qt7 to test it though, so shame on me if in fact it doesn't play :D

nate

2006-01-22 09:36:03 pm

downloading ...

quicktime claims it can play it, but it only outputs white. vlc can play it for a little while, but gives this error on startup:

Code:

main: option sub-original-fps does not exist
subtitle: failed to recognize subtitle type
main: no suitable demux module for `/subtitle:///Users/njahnke/Desktop/Malignancy_x264 Folder/Malignancy_x264.txt'

it stopped playing after a few seconds, then crashed after a few more, but it might just be because my machine was too slow to keep up.

i didn't try with the quicktime plugin.

MP4

2006-01-23 12:29:23 pm

Ugh, this is a nightmare :)

I installed Qt7 to do some testing. Correct, it doesn't open the big, evil fragmovies.

So I said, "well, try to do it yourself".

I picked up MetroidPrime_100p_128_HQ_part16.avi, sliced a chuck, and encoded it with various options.

Good news: I was right, Qt can play it.

Bad news: The method I used is unusable. Ideally you'd use avisynth (or VirtualDub frameserving) and the CLI version of x264; I used the VFW version, then extracted from the AVI, and then tried to mix with the audio only to be greeted with a GPF from the mixer. I could generate mp4 files out of the raw streams, but without audio. Also, the bitstream got the framerate wrong (normally it's stored on the container), which means it's 25fps and it should be 30fps (and 60 in one case). Keep in ming that the duration should be 29 seconds (for bitrate considerations)...

Oh well, here are the mp4 files:

http://rapidshare.de/files/11659136/MP4.zip.html

I included the audio track coded by Nero Digital at 48 kbps; I don't know whether ND or Qt sounds better.

All the video tracks are encoded 365 kbps, which like the audio I think is what you use. The 1-pass ones came significantly oversized (at about 415 kbps).

_default means default x264 settings.
_extreme means default + 8x8 transform, RDO and Exhaustive motion search. This makes Quicktime segfault.
_sharp means less deblocking filter (-2)

I resized the original to 320x240 and used decimation (kill every other frame). By accident I generated a 60fps sample (unfortunately it'll play at 25 fps too), that's how it would look like at the same bitrate (double number of frames) (actually, with faster playback speed it would look better...)

All that said, I think all the samples look better that the ones posted - specially the 2-pass sharp one. And this is not exactly the most easy piece of video to compress...

It depends whether it's worth to do it this way - I imagine it's very easy to capture to MP4 directly with Quicktime, whereas this way takes a significant number of steps.

And I'm very noob when it comes to muxing to MP4, that's why the files are such a disaster (applications crashing at random doesn't help much...). The x264 encodings I did on the past usually ended up on .MKV files with ogg audio :D

Ugh, this is a nightmare :)

I installed Qt7 to do some testing. Correct, it doesn't open the big, evil fragmovies.

So I said, "well, try to do it yourself".

I picked up MetroidPrime_100p_128_HQ_part16.avi, sliced a chuck, and encoded it with various options.

Good news: I was right, Qt can play it.

Bad news: The method I used is unusable. Ideally you'd use avisynth (or VirtualDub frameserving) and the CLI version of x264; I used the VFW version, then extracted from the AVI, and then tried to mix with the audio only to be greeted with a GPF from the mixer. I could generate mp4 files out of the raw streams, but without audio. Also, the bitstream got the framerate wrong (normally it's stored on the container), which means it's 25fps and it should be 30fps (and 60 in one case). Keep in ming that the duration should be 29 seconds (for bitrate considerations)...

Oh well, here are the mp4 files:

http://rapidshare.de/files/11659136/MP4.zip.html

I included the audio track coded by Nero Digital at 48 kbps; I don't know whether ND or Qt sounds better.

All the video tracks are encoded 365 kbps, which like the audio I think is what you use. The 1-pass ones came significantly oversized (at about 415 kbps).

_default means default x264 settings.
_extreme means default + 8x8 transform, RDO and Exhaustive motion search. This makes Quicktime segfault.
_sharp means less deblocking filter (-2)

I resized the original to 320x240 and used decimation (kill every other frame). By accident I generated a 60fps sample (unfortunately it'll play at 25 fps too), that's how it would look like at the same bitrate (double number of frames) (actually, with faster playback speed it would look better...)

All that said, I think all the samples look better that the ones posted - specially the 2-pass sharp one. And this is not exactly the most easy piece of video to compress...

It depends whether it's worth to do it this way - I imagine it's very easy to capture to MP4 directly with Quicktime, whereas this way takes a significant number of steps.

And I'm very noob when it comes to muxing to MP4, that's why the files are such a disaster (applications crashing at random doesn't help much...). The x264 encodings I did on the past usually ended up on .MKV files with ogg audio :D

nate

2006-01-23 07:04:39 pm

good findings. i'm glad that someone took the time to look at this, because i frankly don't have the time or the will. grenola will find this very interesting when he sees it as well. imo, back in the day with crappy ass quicktime mp4, the need was much greater than it is now with less crappy ass quicktime h.264.

MP4

2006-01-24 11:33:27 am

Well, I finally have a working setup...

Behold:

http://rapidshare.de/files/11731544/final.mp4.html

Video bitrate 235 kbps :)

nate

2006-01-24 12:10:41 pm

how was this accomplished? details plz ;)

MP4

2006-01-24 01:50:49 pm

Thru lots of pain and suffering (searching a version of MP4Box that didn't crash and figuring out to put ConvertToYV12() at the end of the avisynth script because x264 will refuse other source formats) :D And installing .NET framework 2.0 for MeGUI to run...

Also, batch-testing which settings made Qt7 crash; good news is that the only killer seems to be b-pyramid.

Well, the only thing that worries me now is thet I use the Nero AAC encoder, which is propietary. FAAC is an alternative, but it's LAME-style: you can get the source code but I can't find binaries (everybody is using Nero?)

If somebody is interested I can post the settings I've found that work with Qt7 and either:
* Download locations for everyting (if I can find them again), and crude set-up instructions
* A pre-made package that only needs avisynth and .NET 2.0

nate

2006-01-24 04:14:00 pm

yes, it's of little use to us unless it can be duplicated by the content producers.

don't get me wrong; the effort is very much appreciated. it's just that to say that something is possible is no good; it has to be made possible for us to be of interest to us.

MP4

2006-01-24 05:25:49 pm

Alright -

Do-it-yourself version:

You need MeGUI - http://www.sf.net/projects/megui
which needs .NET 2 - http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5&DisplayLang=en
(you can do it w/o MeGUI, but I think the gui and automatic batching are worth the .NET price)

The CLI version of x264 - http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=89979
download the "Lite package", and inside it you only need "x264.exe"

A version of MP4Box that works (difficult to find!) - http://kurtnoise.free.fr/mp4tools/?M=A
the MP4Box_20060119.zip one works for me
(the "official" one posted OVER 18 DAYS AGO in http://www.aziendeassociate.it/cd.asp?dir=/gpac/dev DOES NOT WORK)

Avisynth non-beta - http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=57023
(the 2.5 series)

And now, the difficult stuff: besweet and an AAC codec - http://besweet.notrace.dk/BeSweetv1.5b31.zip
Now, if you have Nero 6, go to Program Files\Shared Files\Ahead\AudioPlugins - if you have Aac.dll and aacenc32.dll, copy them both to the folder where you installed besweet. If you don't have them, you'll have to look for FAAC... good luck :'(
(I don't know how "Shared Files" is spelled in English, perhaps it's "Common Files"?)

Finally, some profile presets help. You can download http://rapidshare.de/files/11756841/profiles.zip.html and extract it to the same folder where you installed MeGUI.
that file has all the profiles from http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=101813 and also a Qt7HQ which is what I found Qt7 will decode at most.

Have-it-done version:

http://rapidshare.de/files/11757176/x264-encoding.rar.html
(everything of the above but .NET and avisynth - including Nero AAC encoder... if you can't find yours... but have a license for Nero 6+...)

Encoding instructions:

Start MeGUI (use megui.exe, not the -snow or -x264 versions)

1. You MUST set application paths for BeSweet, mp4Box and x264 (menu Tools --> Settings --> Program Paths), even if they are on the same folder as MeGUI

2. The video must be waiting on an avisynth script (.avs). You can use Tools --> Avisynth Script Creator to try and create one. I recommend adding ConvertToYV12() as the last command of the script (on the Edit tab) because x264 seems to refuse other input colorspaces...
If it says 'the named argument "fps" was passed more than once', remove ',fps=24' from the script.

3. The audio must be waiting on a .WAV file. Perhaps it accepts other input formats too though.

4. On the main window, click the [...] button besides 'AviSynth Script', and select the script.

5. Codec: AVC; File Type: MP4; VideoProfile: CE-QuickTime for fast encoding, Qt7HQ for much slower, but better looking one.

6. Click on "Config". It's best if you specify the bitrate here. On Qt7HQ it's already 350, on CE-QuickTime it's 1000 by default. On CE-QuickTime you might want to decrease the deblocking strength and threshold to -2 (lower value: sharper video - too low: blocky - -2 is a good compromise - range -6 to 6)

7. Now, for the audio: on Input select the .wav file. Codec would be NAAC for Nero. On config, select CBR and the bitrate you want (for example 48). I've found that in VBR mode, the bitrate is always > 48 for Metroid Prime content :) - You can specify the profile too (use HE) and the quiality (use High), I don't know if it's necessary or what is the default, but to be safe :)

8. Save headaches: click on the ()2 radio button on Audio, then back on ()1. MeGUI seems to have a glitch, it fails if you don't do this.

9. Click on AutoEncode. Here, select '()No Target Size' (that's why I told you to specify it on the profile - setting it here gives me undersized files)

10. Click on Queue. Perhaps a warning will pop up ("Problem with audio input filename"), it seems to be a false alarm. It if says "Audio input/output types are incompatible", you didn't do 8.

11. That's it, the jobs are queued. Go to the Queue tab and verify that the job has an audio encoding pass, from 1 to 3 video encoding passes (2 for CE-QuickTime, 3 for Qt7HQ), and a mux pass.

12. Click on "Start", and that's it!

Phew... Let's hope it works for you. It's easier done that said, once you've got it working, it's very easy.

Alright -

[size=18px][u][b]Do-it-yourself version:[/b][/u][/size]

You need MeGUI - http://www.sf.net/projects/megui
which needs .NET 2 - http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5&DisplayLang=en
(you can do it w/o MeGUI, but I think the gui and automatic batching are worth the .NET price)

The CLI version of x264 - http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=89979
download the "Lite package", and inside it you only need "x264.exe"

A version of MP4Box that works (difficult to find!) - http://kurtnoise.free.fr/mp4tools/?M=A
the MP4Box_20060119.zip one works for me
(the "official" one posted OVER 18 DAYS AGO in http://www.aziendeassociate.it/cd.asp?dir=/gpac/dev DOES NOT WORK)

Avisynth non-beta - http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=57023
(the 2.5 series)

And now, the difficult stuff: besweet and an AAC codec - http://besweet.notrace.dk/BeSweetv1.5b31.zip
Now, if you have Nero 6, go to Program Files\Shared Files\Ahead\AudioPlugins - if you have Aac.dll and aacenc32.dll, copy them both to the folder where you installed besweet. If you don't have them, you'll have to look for FAAC... good luck :'(
(I don't know how "Shared Files" is spelled in English, perhaps it's "Common Files"?)

Finally, some profile presets help. You can download http://rapidshare.de/files/11756841/profiles.zip.html and extract it to the same folder where you installed MeGUI.
that file has all the profiles from http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=101813 and also a Qt7HQ which is what I found Qt7 will decode at most.

[size=18px][u][b]Have-it-done version:[/b][/u][/size]

http://rapidshare.de/files/11757176/x264-encoding.rar.html
(everything of the above but .NET and avisynth - including Nero AAC encoder... if you can't find yours... but have a license for Nero 6+...)

[size=18px][u][b]Encoding instructions:[/b][/u][/size]

Start MeGUI (use megui.exe, not the -snow or -x264 versions)

1. You MUST set application paths for BeSweet, mp4Box and x264 (menu Tools --> Settings --> Program Paths), even if they are on the same folder as MeGUI

2. The video must be waiting on an avisynth script (.avs). You can use Tools --> Avisynth Script Creator to try and create one. I recommend adding ConvertToYV12() as the last command of the script (on the Edit tab) because x264 seems to refuse other input colorspaces...
   If it says 'the named argument "fps" was passed more than once', remove ',fps=24' from the script.

3. The audio must be waiting on a .WAV file. Perhaps it accepts other input formats too though.

4. On the main window, click the [...] button besides 'AviSynth Script', and select the script.

5. Codec: AVC; File Type: MP4; VideoProfile: CE-QuickTime for fast encoding, Qt7HQ for much slower, but better looking one.

6. Click on "Config". It's best if you specify the bitrate here. On Qt7HQ it's already 350, on CE-QuickTime it's 1000 by default. On CE-QuickTime you might want to decrease the deblocking strength and threshold to -2 (lower value: sharper video - too low: blocky - -2 is a good compromise - range -6 to 6)

7. Now, for the audio: on Input select the .wav file. Codec would be NAAC for Nero. On config, select CBR and the bitrate you want (for example 48). I've found that in VBR mode, the bitrate is always > 48 for Metroid Prime content :) - You can specify the profile too (use HE) and the quiality (use High), I don't know if it's necessary or what is the default, but to be safe :)

8. Save headaches: click on the ()2 radio button on Audio, then back on ()1. MeGUI seems to have a glitch, it fails if you don't do this.

9. Click on AutoEncode. Here, select '()No Target Size' (that's why I told you to specify it on the profile - setting it here gives me undersized files)

10. Click on Queue. Perhaps a warning will pop up ("Problem with audio input filename"), it seems to be a false alarm. It if says "Audio input/output types are incompatible", you didn't do 8.

11. That's it, the jobs are queued. Go to the Queue tab and verify that the job has an audio encoding pass, from 1 to 3 video encoding passes (2 for CE-QuickTime, 3 for Qt7HQ), and a mux pass.

12. Click on "Start", and that's it!

Phew... Let's hope it works for you. It's easier done that said, once you've got it working, it's very easy.

nate

2006-01-24 08:09:59 pm

will go through this next time i have time/am posting new vids. might be summer, though ... i am really putting in a lot this semester for classes. stickied so i can't lose it.

MP4

2006-01-24 08:27:14 pm

Ok - just keep in mind that most of these tools are rather new and in heavy development, which means all this information will be obsolete in no time :) I expect many of the quirks to be fixed soon and new ones introduced :D But that's to be expected with such new technology.

This thread is a nice "official" summary and perhaps will be updated with new developments:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96032

Right now it doesn't solve AAC audio coding, the avisynth link is broken and the MP4Box build it links to doesn't work, which is why I explained "my" method - that is, the places where I found stuff that actually worked.

DJGrenola

2006-02-09 09:24:44 pm

I'm wondering where the ffmpeg / transcode / mplayer guys are up to with this.

doninss

2006-02-10 10:36:00 pm

The "new vids " here are somewhat bright and flat. QT7 player brightens them a hair more. QT7 player (windows) has no controls for brightness, contrast, saturation, etc. It also doesn't use overlay, so the desktop "color" has to be used to adjust these. I can get acceptable vids (barely) this way but then the desktop looks like shit.

VLC and MplayerC both have controls (filters). With a little tweaking, the vids look much better IMO. Players shot

nate

2006-02-11 09:09:34 am

whoa, so it's quicktime doing that? well, skin me alive and call me luggage!

doninss

2006-02-11 05:05:56 pm

The other players are darker mainly because I used their filters. Sorry for any confusion. They are slightly darker even without filters, but nothing like in the pic.

nate

2006-02-11 06:04:15 pm

indeed, but i'd still call that a weakness of quicktime's. someone needs to write a cross-platform video plug-in that doesn't suck, nowish.