physics ... or something

J_SNAKE

Edit history:

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-27 08:27:44 am

2012-02-27 08:27:11 am

Quote from Poision Envy:

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/02/mass-effect-3-space-edition/

apparently one of them has been found already:

A grown adult man falls for this shit, funny and sad at the same time.

Thread title:

Poision Envy

2012-02-27 08:42:50 am

Club 27 Goals

Thefuck? Falls for what exactly?

ryu

2012-02-28 06:08:19 am

i don' think they're actually shot out into space. just high into the sky.

Poision Envy

Edit history:

Poision Envy: 2012-02-28 06:16:22 am

2012-02-28 06:12:54 am

Club 27 Goals

What's the difference?

if you look at 0:50, that looks pretty damn high up to me. I'm not sure what counts as "space" or not though.

Quietus

2012-02-28 07:12:36 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

100km above sea level, or the Kármán line, is now generally regarded as the point at which the Earth's atmosphere ends and space begins. Of course, there isn't really a point that splits the two, but for the sake of definitions, the Kármán line was chosen.

tomatobob

2012-02-28 07:39:43 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

As far as I'm concerned if an object can come back down to the surface by any means besides orbital decay it never made it space.
Fucker just falling back down is bullshit. Not talking

J_SNAKE

Edit history:

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-28 10:36:57 am

2012-02-28 10:36:15 am

According to physical laws everything will come back, no matter how far you lift it. If it doesn't come back then other gravitational forces outweigh the earth. I would prefer to shoot shit to the moon.

Quietus

2012-02-28 11:58:12 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Quote from J_SNAKE:

According to physical laws everything will come back

Quote from J_SNAKE:

If it doesn't come back

TheGreenManalishi

2012-02-28 12:57:32 pm

Escape velocity, innit

TheGreenManalishi

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TheGreenManalishi: 2012-02-28 02:04:40 pm

2012-02-28 02:04:21 pm

Crazy liquid cape physics.

J_SNAKE

Edit history:

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-28 02:29:07 pm

2012-02-28 02:28:51 pm

Here is how gravity-force approximately works, as far as we can tell: Force = G * m1*m2 / (r*r)

G is a constant
take m1 as mass of the earth
take m2 as mass of the object
r is the distance between the objects

Now do the math and see for yourself. Shit is coming back.

TheGreenManalishi

2012-02-28 02:39:36 pm

So when's the Voyager probe due back, eh JSNAKE?

Quietus

2012-02-28 02:49:48 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

You know I was only remarking about how you said they don't come back, and then they do, right?

Opium

2012-02-28 03:35:36 pm

I thought that things don't acheive any kind of orbit unless they have velocity parallel to the earth beyond what is granted by simply being that far away from the surface of it. In other words, if you send something straight up, it will come down without having any orbit to decay. It may land thousands of miles away from where it launched because the earth has rotated that much since it left, but I thought for an object to come from the earth and acheive orbit there had to be a lot calculations and effort involved.

J_SNAKE

Edit history:

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-28 04:50:30 pm

2012-02-28 04:31:36 pm

Quote from Quietus:

You know I was only remarking about how you said they don't come back, and then they do, right?

Shoot something to the moon and it stays there. Force = G * m1*m2 / (r*r) explains it all. Gravity is working on all masses so you need to take moon into account. If it was only for the earth and the object the mathematical property you see is that you need to move them infinitely far away to eliminate their forces on each other, practically impossible.

J_SNAKE

Edit history:

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-28 05:04:52 pm

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-28 04:46:06 pm

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-28 04:45:30 pm

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-28 04:44:55 pm

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-28 04:44:40 pm

2012-02-28 04:44:09 pm

Quote from Opium:

In other words, if you send something straight up, it will come down without having any orbit to decay.

Yes, the reason satellites don't fall down is simply enough tangential momentum. The gravitational force is still trying to pull them down, but that creates an orbit corresponding to the momentum they have. In this constellation one property is that the magnitude of the gravitational force also equals: F= m*v*v / r (m: mass of the object, v: speed, r: distance of the orbit). So now the the orbit can vary in distance and speed, it just needs to correspond to the gravity-force. For example if we want it to have a certain height then we need to adapt its speed so that it stays on it.

A force is the cause for changing the velocity of an object, that can be a change in speed and/or direction.
Here the gravity-force doesn't change the speed of the object but its direction.

J_SNAKE

2012-02-28 05:07:44 pm

Lol, that's all for the gravitational Mass Effect. I don't think it deserves its own thread:P

tomatobob

2012-02-28 05:42:11 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from TheGreenManalishi:

So when's the Voyager probe due back, eh JSNAKE?

To be fair you're talking about something very different than a weather balloon. Voyager got a rocket launch and had it's own method of propulsion to keep it from being pulled back by Earth's gravity until it got far enough away that Earth's influence was negligible. He's not wrong in this context. Unless that weather balloon gets far enough that the Moon's gravity is acting on it more strongly that the Earth, yeah, it's coming back. Weather balloons don't go that far for obvious reasons.

I stand by my statement though, fuck you Bioware, you don't get to launch a couple balloons and claim your game went to space. Shit better be coming back into the atmosphere on fire like a proper space object if you're gonna say you go it that far. Not talking

J_SNAKE

Edit history:

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-28 08:01:16 pm

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-28 07:59:59 pm

J_SNAKE: 2012-02-28 07:59:33 pm

2012-02-28 07:57:55 pm

Just an example to show how following fundamental principles can lead you to greater insight:

Even when it comes to "self-propulsion" there is a certain law that is conserved: It is the conservation of the total impulse.

The impulse of an object is defined by P= m*v (m: mass of the object, v: speed, just taking the one-dimensional case to keep it simple)

Just a small mind-play to shape some understanding: assume the universe only consists of 2 small objects which rest, which means the total impuls is zero: m1*v1 + m2*v2 = 0. Now if m1 is going to move (no matter how it achieves that) m2 will move as well, but in the negative direction, just to maintain the total impulse, which is zero.

Now if you understand that you will realize a fundamental necessity: If one object (let it be the rocket or your own body) is trapped in gravity-free vacuum, its center cannot move until you cut out a limb and kick it really hard.
So you already know why an object has to loose mass whenever a self-propulsion in space is applied. See you can already tell an important aspect rockets have to address without studying rocket science.
It is because physics are everywhere and they will come just the way they are. But we can shape our understanding and exploit them.

Just an example to show how following fundamental principles can lead you to greater insight:

Even when it comes to "self-propulsion" there is a certain law that is conserved: It is the conservation of the total impulse.

The impulse of an object is defined by P= m*v  (m: mass of the object, v: speed,  just taking the one-dimensional case to keep it simple)

Just a small mind-play to shape some understanding: assume the universe only consists of  2 small objects which rest, which means the total impuls is zero: m1*v1 + m2*v2 = 0. Now if m1 is going to move (no matter how it achieves that)  m2 will move as well, but in the negative direction, just to maintain the total impulse, which is zero.

Now if you understand that you will realize a fundamental necessity: If one object (let it be the rocket or your own body) is trapped in gravity-free vacuum, its center cannot move until you cut out a limb and kick it really hard.
So you already know why an object has to loose mass whenever a self-propulsion in space is applied. See you can already tell an important aspect rockets have to address without studying rocket science.
It is because physics are everywhere and they will come just the way they are. But we can shape our understanding and exploit them.