Prime Speed Team

2008-07-03 12:12:29 am

plasma before ice, interesting idea, mind posting the route you had in mind?

and that boost across waste disposal... i just watched craztad's video of it and noticed that he uses a boost up from the FIRST bomb and not the second (ie bomb, boost, bomb). this lets him charge the boost longer than if he went bomb, bomb, boost like most of us probably do; holding that charge longer might be the key to getting across much more consistently

Aruki

2008-07-03 12:15:55 am

It might be faster in a few rooms in a SW state to aether jump up instead of bombing up the room or whatever you're doing. It's harder in Prime but still possible.

bartendorsparky

2008-07-03 02:39:20 am

always move fast

alright, so i was looking around for ways to get infinite speed near phazon elite today. didn't get anything yet, but i did find a secret world in security access b (the room before phazon elite).

basically, after the pirate clips you through the wall you should fall down into a little underground room (not like i do in the video). from there you can ghetto up to the spot you clipped through the wall, and then jump to the place i was hit to. roll through the little passage and unmorph as soon as you can. jump over the gap, and position yourself on the inside of the pole. there is a very specific location you have to stick to before you can get all the way up, so keep trying until you figure it out.

from what i understand, it is possible to do infinite speed from a secret world state, but i don't know how to do it. hopefully someone can figure this out, and we can put the idea to rest once and for all.

Master ZED

2008-07-03 03:07:43 am

Quote from bartendorsparky:

alright, so i was looking around for ways to get infinite speed near phazon elite today. didn't get anything yet, but i did find a secret world in security access b (the room before phazon elite).

Excellent... someone else found this glitch before (Flamy I think), but a SW entrance was never found via this method to my knowledge, so it is new. Prior to this, I think it was just a way into the pit below, but since the ground is solid down there, it didn't go any further than mere trivia.

Quote from bartendorsparky:

from what i understand, it is possible to do infinite speed from a secret world state, but i don't know how to do it. hopefully someone can figure this out, and we can put the idea to rest once and for all.

It can be done in secretized and erroneously loaded rooms on most vertical walls. If you found a solid wall and ground to match outside in a SW, there's a chance you could get IS.

bartendorsparky

Edit history:

bartendorsparky: 2008-07-03 11:30:39 am

2008-07-03 10:54:51 am

always move fast

the idea seems to be bust... just got an infinite speed going and started boosting around security access b, but it didn't trigger a single thing. not finished testing yet, but it doesn't look good.

edit:
tried it three times now, once with elite quarters secretized, once with the door open, and once with the map on elite quarters (when the map crossed over i entered light show unfortunately. unfortunately, nothing was ever noticably triggered. as a last ditch hope, i suppose it's possible that infinite speed simply changes room states to after phazon elite has burst from the tank, but i seriously doubt it...

MPzoid

2008-07-03 12:17:14 pm

Quote from craztad:

Wow, its nice to see zoid around.

:)

i have heard that saving before parasite queen is faster than not saving because the gate takes more time to open if you don't save but if you save the gate will take less time to load. can anyone cofirm that it's true?

if saving really is faster i don't see why we shouldn't save there and split the frigate segment into two parts. saving there would make it a hundred times easier to get a 4:30 escape. trying to get a 1 minute first segment (but without saving before PQ) and still getting a 4:30 escape would be awfully hard. i mean if someone has to get to the room with the two turrets (the room right before pq and next to the save station) in sub 2 minutes but still doesn't save there it would be much more difficult for him to get a 4:30 escape afterwards.

bushwacker

2008-07-03 01:24:42 pm

wow cool sw. too bad about IS not working but it really is strange how fickle it is... it lets you take early sun but almost nothing else... there's that new IS spot i found in fungal hall a but it doesn't let you get newborn or even the missile expansion in fungal hall access. worthless.

that thing about saving in the frigate, i've heard that too but sounds like a good test is in order to found out the truth. zoid is right, that save would really help in optimizing the frigate

Andrew Mills

2008-07-03 04:41:14 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from bartendorsparky:

afaik when you enter geo after getting plasma you are above the ceiling. from here you head over to the spider blocks and jump into a secret world. i can't imagine the wave doors being a problem, as after all i had to pass two of them to get to geo core.

Good point about the state of Geo via a SW. I forgot that the roof wouldn't be raised, so you can SJ out again from the spider tracks. If you can knock up a video of the wallcrawl for me (from entrance in Magmoor and into Geo), I'd love to bust open my PAL copy again and help on the quest for plasma before Ice. :D

BTW: Nice find on that new SW! :) A bit late to the party with it mind (;)), but a very sweet find all the same. 8)

Gu3st

2008-07-03 04:44:12 pm

Jagger ftw

Since we have the top mp runners here, I got a fav to ask.

In my old attempts of beating ridly in sw without getting any artifact via the same method used in mp2's jump guardian. I could never do the bsj in landing site, if any one would like to help me by continue trying, I'll be glad grin new

Master ZED

2008-07-03 11:35:04 pm

Quote from Andrew Mills:

If you can knock up a video of the wallcrawl for me (from entrance in Magmoor and into Geo), I'd love to bust open my PAL copy again and help on the quest for plasma before Ice. :D

Well, there's... not really a quest here. If you want to bypass the ice door, either secretize or erroneously load Plasma Processing and warp through the roof at the center of the room or elsewhere. I don't remember partially loading or even just loading the room being a problem at all. The rest of the problem would lie with the usual difficulty of getting to Magmoor Workstation and getting into the SW, then doing the wallcrawl.

Quote from Gu3st:

In my old attempts of beating ridly in sw without getting any artifact via the same method used in mp2's jump guardian. *snip*

That... can't be done unless I'm missing something important. Jump Guardian can be drained of health because its preloaded; Meta Ridley can't be killed this way because until you've retrieved all of the artifacts and triggered the battle, he doesn't exist. Even if Ridley does exist, you'd still need the artifacts to start the battle in order to finish it if the Jump Guardian example provides any evidence as to how this would work.

[quote="Andrew Mills"]If you can knock up a video of the wallcrawl for me (from entrance in Magmoor and into Geo), I'd love to bust open my PAL copy again and help on the quest for plasma before Ice. :D
[/quote]Well, there's... not really a quest here.  If you want to bypass the ice door, either secretize or erroneously load Plasma Processing and warp through the roof at the center of the room or elsewhere.  I don't remember partially loading or even just loading the room being a problem at all.  The rest of the problem would lie with the usual difficulty of getting to Magmoor Workstation and getting into the SW, then doing the wallcrawl.

[quote="Gu3st"]
In my old attempts of beating ridly in sw without getting any artifact via the same method used in mp2's jump guardian. *snip*
[/quote]That... can't be done unless I'm missing something important.  Jump Guardian can be drained of health because its preloaded; Meta Ridley can't be killed this way because until you've retrieved all of the artifacts and triggered the battle, he doesn't exist.  Even if Ridley does exist, you'd still need the artifacts to start the battle in order to finish it if the Jump Guardian example provides any evidence as to how this would work.

MPzoid

2008-07-04 12:02:38 am

wow i just got a 4:29.0x Frigate escape.
it was my first 4:29 escape. i beat my previous 4:28.08 record at archive.org by a whole second. wow i still can't believe it i am only 1 second behind sparky's 4:30.05 world record. and i just started practising the frigate escape a few days ago. i was at the ridley cut scene at 5:11.8x, sparky was there at 5:12.5x, and TRH was there at 5:11.5x so i was faster than trh at that point but i somehow messed up the rest of the escape and ended up being a little bit slower than TRH's previous 4:29.27 world record.

but i didn't record it because i already told i can't record at the moment. but i shall get a DVD-recorder.

well as i said, i just started doing frigate escapes a bit more intensely a few days ago so i hope i will get a bunch more 4:29-escapes in future.

sorry for my euphoria, i know it's nothing special since it's not a new WR anyway but it was really my first time that i got a 4:29 escape.

bushwacker

2008-07-04 02:06:20 am

goddammit i just lost another disc of recordings. this thing is really pissing me off

bartendorsparky

2008-07-04 03:28:06 am

always move fast

anyone have any genius ideas for getting artifact in phen. edge without plasma beam? if that could be done even moderately quickly, i think the following route would be considerably faster than the standard route:

- up to boost ball (get wave before boost)
- head through the pirate base to control tower artifact, secret world
- wallcrawl past ice door in thermal visor room (gotta skip thermal)
- get phen edge artifact, wallcrawl over door to thardus elevator
- get plasma
- spiderball, sun, strength, ice spreader, lifegiver, hote artifact, ice beam
- x-ray, artifact, main powerbombs, phazon suit, newborn, warrior
- head through front of mines to ship

everything seems doable except the phen. edge artifact...

AngerFist

2008-07-04 04:34:39 am

Quote from bartendorsparky:

- head through the pirate base to control tower artifact, secret world

:(

Demonic18

2008-07-04 07:34:32 am

What's wrong with that? According to the site the tower must be brought down to do it, but that's not a problem because runners always bring it down via missile anyway so they don't have to return there after getting plasma.

Master ZED

Edit history:

Master ZED: 2008-07-04 07:45:29 am

2008-07-04 07:40:42 am

Quote from Demonic18:

What's wrong with that? According to the site the tower must be brought down to do it, but that's not a problem because runners always bring it down via missile anyway so they don't have to return there after getting plasma.

The problem lies with reaching the doors as I recall. There's no way to do that, making the Control Tower SW unusable for anything practical.

If you want to skip an ice door to get into deeper Phendrana, Ruined Courtyard (I think... the room with the entrances to both the Pirate labs and the path to Thardus) or North Quarantine Tunnel would be your best bets. That could prove too slow though.

bartendorsparky

Edit history:

bartendorsparky: 2008-07-04 05:02:03 pm

2008-07-04 04:13:17 pm

always move fast

for getting the magmal pool pb via infinite speed, is the closest spot to do the glitch training chamber/tunnel next to magma pool? i only ask because im not sure how getting back across the lava would work.

recit0

2008-07-04 08:00:45 pm

there is a spot in magma pool room but on the wrong side. Just behind the boxes on the left.

MPzoid

Edit history:

MPzoid: 2008-07-04 08:35:51 pm

2008-07-04 08:27:48 pm

Quote from bartendorsparky:

edit: missile wise, i think getting the ones i got in my other run, minus the one in gathering hall is the way to go. using the alternate mqa method to collect to missile, you also save a pb that you can use against op, saving even more time.

so you mean we should really collect the missile in Fungal Hall B? cause you did it in your run. but wouldn't that lose time?

and if you say that we should collect it do you mean we should collect it on the first time through fungal hall B when heading to OP (and skip the mushroom dash and do the ghetto jump method just so we can collect that missile) or do you mean to collect it after op when heading to newborn like you did in your test run?

my suggestion: if we choose to collect the missile in fungal hall B i think we should not collect it at first time but use the mushroom dash and then kill op and then go back through fungal hall b again but still don't collect it but go to newborn artifact first and then return to fungal hall b again and NOW collect that missile and do the ghetto jump to get up. would that be the way to go?

also about the missile in gathering hall, you said that we should skip it. i suppose you mean that we shouldn't save in gathering hall before flaahgra/wild then? but wouldn't it be better to save there? i mean optimizing the Flaahgra/early Wild segment would be pretty hard and luck based, especially getting an extremely fast battle with the three ghosts would be very random and luck based and it would be extremely hard to get a perfect ghost battle, so i think WE HAVE to save in gathering hall before the flaahgra/wild segment in order to get an optimal flaahgra/wild segment. and since we have to save in gathering hall anyway we must collect the missile in gathering hall because the door to the save station takes a while to open so we could collect the missile in the meantime and we wouldn't lose time by collecting that missile at all.

sure you say that we would lose time by saving in gathering hall but our priority is to get a perfect ghost battle because that would be the REAL HUGE timesaver and we must sacrifice the little time loss by saving in gathering hall just so we can save a huge amount of time at the ghost battle.

if we collect the missile in gathering hall should we still collect the one in fungal hall b then? by collecting the one in gathering hall we would have 40 missiles. and if we also collect the one in fungal hall b we would have 45 missiles. well i'm not sure but i think the more the better ;P

so yeah i think we should exactly collect the same missiles that sparky got in his first test run. (only difference is we shouldn't get the missile in fungal hall b BEFORE artifact of newborn like sparky did but we should collect it AFTER newborn. this is the way to go. what do you think?

[quote="bartendorsparky"]edit: missile wise, i think getting the ones i got in my other run, minus the one in gathering hall is the way to go.  using the alternate mqa method to collect to missile, you also save a pb that you can use against op, saving even more time.[/quote]

so you mean we should really collect the missile in Fungal Hall B? cause you did it in your run. but wouldn't that lose time?

and if you say that we should collect it do you mean we should collect it on the first time through fungal hall B when heading to OP (and skip the mushroom dash and do the ghetto jump method just so we can collect that missile) or do you mean to collect it after op when heading to newborn like you did in your test run?

my suggestion: if we choose to collect the missile in fungal hall B i think we should not collect it at first time but use the mushroom dash and then kill op and then go back through fungal hall b again but still don't collect it but go to newborn artifact first and then return to fungal hall b again and NOW collect that missile and do the ghetto jump to get up. would that be the way to go?

also about the missile in gathering hall, you said that we should skip it. i suppose you mean that we shouldn't save in gathering hall before flaahgra/wild then? but wouldn't it be better to save there? i mean optimizing the Flaahgra/early Wild segment would be pretty hard and luck based, especially getting an extremely fast battle with the three ghosts would be very random and luck based and it would be extremely hard to get a perfect ghost battle, so i think WE HAVE to save in gathering hall before the flaahgra/wild segment in order to get an optimal flaahgra/wild segment. and since we have to save in gathering hall anyway we must collect the missile in gathering hall because the door to the save station takes a while to open so we could collect the missile in the meantime and we wouldn't lose time by collecting that missile at all.

sure you say that we would lose time by saving in gathering hall but our priority is to get a perfect ghost battle because that would be the REAL HUGE timesaver and we must sacrifice the little time loss by saving in gathering hall just so we can save a huge amount of time at the ghost battle.

if we collect the missile in gathering hall should we still collect the one in fungal hall b then? by collecting the one in gathering hall we would have 40 missiles. and if we also collect the one in fungal hall b we would have 45 missiles. well i'm not sure but i think the more the better ;P

so yeah i think we should exactly collect the same missiles that sparky got in his first test run. (only difference is we shouldn't get the missile in fungal hall b BEFORE artifact of newborn like sparky did but we should collect it AFTER newborn. this is the way to go. what do you think?

bartendorsparky

2008-07-05 01:51:08 pm

always move fast

just recorded an ibbf test segment (note: i edited out about a billion failed hote bj attempts). total time: 4:58. also keep in mind that another 10-15 seconds off should not be unreasonable, not even counting the really minute improvements.

AngerFist

2008-07-05 03:08:01 pm

sparky, you have no intention at all to exclude SWs in your upcoming speedrun huh?

Andrew Mills

2008-07-05 03:14:51 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

Quote from bartendorsparky:

just recorded an ibbf test segment (note: i edited out about a billion failed hote bj attempts). total time: 4:58. also keep in mind that another 10-15 seconds off should not be unreasonable, not even counting the really minute improvements.

Can I just say that I was genuinely impressed when watching the wallcrawlling on action in that video. The route was original, and you wasted next to no time with secretizing rooms. The one suggestion I WOULD add though, is instead of entering the HOTE, get on top of the roof that holds the missile refill station (there's definitely solid spots on that roof), and find your way to the door beside the scan point for the forcefield. Saves killing the ghost and worrying about the tbj. Worth a look at the very least...

bartendorsparky

2008-07-05 03:21:19 pm

always move fast

Quote from AngerFist:

sparky, you have no intention at all to exclude SWs in your upcoming speedrun huh?

if it turns out to be faster to use them, of course i'll use them.

and mills, i could be wrong, but i think you need to kill the ghost eventually anyway to get the artifact there. if so, then i think what i did is faster, although if it is possible to get the artifact quickly without killing the ghost, then that'd definitely save time.

Aruki

2008-07-05 04:20:28 pm

That was great, sparky. Why not take the ice doors in Furnace, though?

bartendorsparky

2008-07-05 04:30:03 pm

always move fast

because i don't know how to do those yet >_>.

i actually have what appears to be a very good vmr route in my head, so hopefully entering by the ice door can net you that tank pretty quickly, then get main plaza and furnace. i'll look into that soon.