Haven't played this in a while. I got 1:30:06 100% normal
1:23:40 on normal. That's the best I can do...
Archived M2K2 Forum
Just improved the last segment of my any% run slightly and got 27:38. I reckon I could get 27:30 or a little below with that save file, although starting a new run would be much more worthwhile. I haven't decided yet if I'll go for any% or 100% though; I mostly just hope I'll actually be able to get back into this game this time around. >_<
Quote from spidey-widey:
Just improved the last segment of my any% run slightly and got 27:38. I reckon I could get 27:30 or a little below with that save file, although starting a new run would be much more worthwhile. I haven't decided yet if I'll go for any% or 100% though; I mostly just hope I'll actually be able to get back into this game this time around. >_<
You should do 100% so as to not motivate me to actually start playing again =P.
Seriously though, I want to try for sub 27, but I always have recording issues because electronics die on me constantly. I've also wanted to finish my 100% runs, but I've never gotten around to it =/.
Sorry sam, I seem to be more interested in any% at the moment. :p I still consider myself more of an any% than a 100% speedrunner, and yet I've neglected any% for a long while now. (I finished recording that 27:40 back in January of 2009. Where did all that time go?)
I'm currently doing a test run in which I finally try the 40/6 route for the first time. I'm saved at Tourian at 15:25, and I predict an ending time around 28:00 or so. Somewhere along the way, I got the idea that 45/6 might be worth trying out (with the extra missile pack being the one in the hive room), although that will definitely require some more thought and testing.
I'm currently doing a test run in which I finally try the 40/6 route for the first time. I'm saved at Tourian at 15:25, and I predict an ending time around 28:00 or so. Somewhere along the way, I got the idea that 45/6 might be worth trying out (with the extra missile pack being the one in the hive room), although that will definitely require some more thought and testing.
28:00 does seem fair enough. I had 15:47 and I estimate I can net 28:3ish with my current skill, but I'm obviously not that good. :P
I really dislike the first part of the game. If I was better at Hiveroom and the Beamst 2HKO, I could finally get a better Norfair time (or just continue because I've gotten better times not saving. at the Ridley elevator).
Seriously though, good to have you back. :)
And to be honest, I think 40/6 is better than 45/6. I don't know how fast that expansion can be gotten, but assuming EVERYTHING went perfect, 1:43 is achievable after Hiveroom without it. After that, you don't really need missiles much until maybe the long room with those hoppers in Kraid (if you're unlucky really) and maybe Tourian. But Tourian should just be two saves regardless (but push luck to the max).
I really dislike the first part of the game. If I was better at Hiveroom and the Beamst 2HKO, I could finally get a better Norfair time (or just continue because I've gotten better times not saving. at the Ridley elevator).
Seriously though, good to have you back. :)
And to be honest, I think 40/6 is better than 45/6. I don't know how fast that expansion can be gotten, but assuming EVERYTHING went perfect, 1:43 is achievable after Hiveroom without it. After that, you don't really need missiles much until maybe the long room with those hoppers in Kraid (if you're unlucky really) and maybe Tourian. But Tourian should just be two saves regardless (but push luck to the max).
The missile tank can be picked up about as fast as any of the ones later on can from my experience (my 1:50 after hive is almost as good as I could ask for while getting it), but getting it is only worth it if getting an extra missile expansion is worth it. I would only go 40:6 because picking up more seems like a waste of time if the last 5 missiles aren't needed.
Thomaz! Great to see you again. Major congrats on going sub-28:50.
I was thinking through the idea of 45/6 today, and as you guys suspected, I don't think it's as good of an idea as I had hoped. I'm going to think it through some more though, since there are some nice things about it too.
The main motivation behind my 45/6 thought was missile management. I was thinking you could grab the hive room missile, postpone the missile before the cocoon, and still have 35/4 when fighting Ridley. Then you'd be grabbing two missile tanks on the way to Kraid, hopefully giving you enough to blast through the sidehoppers before Kraid. Perhaps I'm being pessimistic, but I'm expecting fairly bad drops from Ridley; after all, our new strategy will leave Samus with very low health at the end of that fight, making it more likely that Ridley will drop a lot of health. 45/6 would also help a little against the mother brain, since you'd only need five missile refills during the fight instead of seven. (I've yet to do this fight with 40/6, so I don't know at this point how much this would actually help; perhaps you guys can share your thoughts on this.) That's pretty much where the benefits of 45/6 end, though, and it doesn't seem like quite enough to justify the extra missile pack.
As far as alternate missile packs go, though, the hive room pack seems like a good one to consider. You might lose something like 7 seconds or so when grabbing it, but you quickly gain about 2 seconds back when you go back through the hive room since the hives will be gone for good.
Lastly, I had a somewhat crazy thought when I remembered an alternate route transience mentioned a while ago. The idea here is to get the hive room missile, and have 40 missiles when going down to Ridley. Then, grab just the first super missile before Ridley, and fight him with 40/2. This does mean that you'd have to hit Ridley every time, but when you're only shooting from inside him or beneath him, this doesn't seem to me like it should be difficult. Then grab the second super missile pack on the way out of Ridley, and proceed as usual, perhaps grabbing the missile pack before hi-jump if it seems like a good idea.
Maybe I'm just crazy though. I don't think getting the second super missile after Ridley would actually save an enormous amount of time, and it would make segment 2 a nightmare, between getting a quick kill on the cocoon, fighting Ridley with 40/2, going through the Ridley sidehopper room twice, and successfully doing the crumble block trick, acid worm skip, and Brinstar super missile shinespark.
I was thinking through the idea of 45/6 today, and as you guys suspected, I don't think it's as good of an idea as I had hoped. I'm going to think it through some more though, since there are some nice things about it too.
The main motivation behind my 45/6 thought was missile management. I was thinking you could grab the hive room missile, postpone the missile before the cocoon, and still have 35/4 when fighting Ridley. Then you'd be grabbing two missile tanks on the way to Kraid, hopefully giving you enough to blast through the sidehoppers before Kraid. Perhaps I'm being pessimistic, but I'm expecting fairly bad drops from Ridley; after all, our new strategy will leave Samus with very low health at the end of that fight, making it more likely that Ridley will drop a lot of health. 45/6 would also help a little against the mother brain, since you'd only need five missile refills during the fight instead of seven. (I've yet to do this fight with 40/6, so I don't know at this point how much this would actually help; perhaps you guys can share your thoughts on this.) That's pretty much where the benefits of 45/6 end, though, and it doesn't seem like quite enough to justify the extra missile pack.
As far as alternate missile packs go, though, the hive room pack seems like a good one to consider. You might lose something like 7 seconds or so when grabbing it, but you quickly gain about 2 seconds back when you go back through the hive room since the hives will be gone for good.
Lastly, I had a somewhat crazy thought when I remembered an alternate route transience mentioned a while ago. The idea here is to get the hive room missile, and have 40 missiles when going down to Ridley. Then, grab just the first super missile before Ridley, and fight him with 40/2. This does mean that you'd have to hit Ridley every time, but when you're only shooting from inside him or beneath him, this doesn't seem to me like it should be difficult. Then grab the second super missile pack on the way out of Ridley, and proceed as usual, perhaps grabbing the missile pack before hi-jump if it seems like a good idea.
Maybe I'm just crazy though. I don't think getting the second super missile after Ridley would actually save an enormous amount of time, and it would make segment 2 a nightmare, between getting a quick kill on the cocoon, fighting Ridley with 40/2, going through the Ridley sidehopper room twice, and successfully doing the crumble block trick, acid worm skip, and Brinstar super missile shinespark.
I've thought about the crumble route too, but I am not entirely convinced its worth doing until I see someone else prove that it is worth it, but that's just me.
Depending on how close I'll be to sub 27 I will probably end up having a strategy involving getting a super on a red rinka to be honest, but that's only if the time constraints are too tight, and they might be because the difference between sub 28 and sub 27 are quite large when you think about it. It's an evil thought though, I think I've only ever gotten two supers from red rinkas before from what I remember.
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I've yet to do this fight with 40/6, so I don't know at this point how much this would actually help; perhaps you guys can share your thoughts on this.
Depending on how close I'll be to sub 27 I will probably end up having a strategy involving getting a super on a red rinka to be honest, but that's only if the time constraints are too tight, and they might be because the difference between sub 28 and sub 27 are quite large when you think about it. It's an evil thought though, I think I've only ever gotten two supers from red rinkas before from what I remember.
Eh, I guess I can try the crumble route in a test run at least, as it's worth considering. As I thought more about it though, it seems like it's really not worth it. It makes the segment a lot harder, and it really only saves the time required to traverse the crumble room once. You also save a little time by avoiding a quick entrance and exit from the second super missile room, but then you lose some time too by having to shoot 10 missiles at Ridley instead of the extra 2 supers.
Counting on getting a super missile from a red rinka sounds like an awful idea. I guess if you're coming in right above 27:00, though, there's not much else you can do.
Counting on getting a super missile from a red rinka sounds like an awful idea. I guess if you're coming in right above 27:00, though, there's not much else you can do.
Thomaz and sam (and anyone else who's tried 40/6): either I don't know how the mother brain fight is supposed to go with 40/6, or else I'm just terrible/unlucky at it. I had thought that you would blast through the zebetites and fight the mother brain without returning to the previous room to refill. Depending on whether or not you used super missiles on a few of the zebetites, you'd have 11/6 or 21/4 when you arrive at the mother brain. Barring any super missile refills from red rinkas, you'd then need seven missile refills to finish the fight. My problem is that it seems to take quite a while to get seven refills. Fewer than half of the rinkas give me missiles, and so I've been needing to destroy 15 to 20 of them just to get the ammo I need. So far, my fights using this method have been significantly slower than when I would do the same fight with 50/4.
I don't know, maybe I've just gotten exceptionally unlucky in my attempts so far and/or I need a lot more practice. At the least, I could destroy the first two zebetites with missile-missile-super and then return to the previous room for a few refills. 40/6 would still be faster than 50/4 due to item acquisition time as well as destroying the mother brain and her tank with 25/6 instead of 35/4. What do you guys think? Am I just doing this all wrong?
I don't know, maybe I've just gotten exceptionally unlucky in my attempts so far and/or I need a lot more practice. At the least, I could destroy the first two zebetites with missile-missile-super and then return to the previous room for a few refills. 40/6 would still be faster than 50/4 due to item acquisition time as well as destroying the mother brain and her tank with 25/6 instead of 35/4. What do you guys think? Am I just doing this all wrong?
The thing with 40/6 is that you use the extra two Supers to destroy the last two Zebetites just how you destroy the first two. 1 Super + 2 Regulars. You'll have 36/4 remaining as you would have if you're doing 50/4. :)
I don't think that crumble route would be ideal. As you said, it would make it more difficult and it's not like getting it after getting the first Super tank takes that much time. I would argue it's faster because if your aim is well, you can jump from one edge (either left or right) to the other without needing to wall jump. It's true that Ridley dropping the refills is not gonna be fun, but that's always the case really. How many missiles would you need for the sidehopper room, I don't remember (you can jump over the first one without wasting much time, but shooting is always faster eh).
And thanks! :) I'm trying to improve my first segment (or increase it to get a better Ridley time; not saving at Norfair).
I don't think that crumble route would be ideal. As you said, it would make it more difficult and it's not like getting it after getting the first Super tank takes that much time. I would argue it's faster because if your aim is well, you can jump from one edge (either left or right) to the other without needing to wall jump. It's true that Ridley dropping the refills is not gonna be fun, but that's always the case really. How many missiles would you need for the sidehopper room, I don't remember (you can jump over the first one without wasting much time, but shooting is always faster eh).
And thanks! :) I'm trying to improve my first segment (or increase it to get a better Ridley time; not saving at Norfair).
So you beat the first two zebetites with missile-missile-super, return to the previous room to refill, and do the same to the other two zebetites? In that case I think it might actually be better to destroy the last two zebetites with missiles and then beat the mother brain using 5 missiles and 6 supers, since you can shoot those zebetites with 6 or 7 missiles just in the time it takes to approach them. I'm not sure though; as I've said, I still need to practice this part more.
That's true....although I've never been good at the timing of that jump. I plan to at least try that crumble route, using as many saves as I deem convenient. After thinking about it some more, I suspect the best way to do that crumble route might actually be to fight Ridley with 30/2 and get a super missile refill mid fight. (I mostly think this because the crumble route probably saves no more than 5 seconds at best, and getting 40/2 before Ridley would likely lose some of that time due to grabbing non-ideal missile tanks.) This makes the crumble route seem even less appealing, since segment 2 of this route would be bad enough as is without needing to get a super refill while fighting Ridley.
The Kraid sidehopper room has five sidehoppers, so ideally you'd have 10 extra missiles for that room. It's pretty easy to jump over the first one though, and the second and fifth ones are often easy to jump over also.
What saves/times did you have for your 28:47? Were they the same ones you posted in the previous several pages of this thread?
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I would argue it's faster because if your aim is well, you can jump from one edge (either left or right) to the other without needing to wall jump.
That's true....although I've never been good at the timing of that jump. I plan to at least try that crumble route, using as many saves as I deem convenient. After thinking about it some more, I suspect the best way to do that crumble route might actually be to fight Ridley with 30/2 and get a super missile refill mid fight. (I mostly think this because the crumble route probably saves no more than 5 seconds at best, and getting 40/2 before Ridley would likely lose some of that time due to grabbing non-ideal missile tanks.) This makes the crumble route seem even less appealing, since segment 2 of this route would be bad enough as is without needing to get a super refill while fighting Ridley.
The Kraid sidehopper room has five sidehoppers, so ideally you'd have 10 extra missiles for that room. It's pretty easy to jump over the first one though, and the second and fifth ones are often easy to jump over also.
What saves/times did you have for your 28:47? Were they the same ones you posted in the previous several pages of this thread?
I'm not good at the jump either, but I will try to learn it since my next goal is sub 28. :P There are a couple of things in that particulary part which I can do better so there's a bit of time to gain.
My times are:
Norfair first save : 5:36
Before Ridley : 8:58
Before Kraid : 13:21
Tourian first save : 15:47
Tourian second save: 16:54
I even saved right before Ghost at 22:28, because I got sick of getting good drops, fighting MB and butchering Suitless. I don't remember if I got the 28:47 with that save or with the 16:54 one. The Kraid save will obviously be skipped now. And the Ghost one is obvious.
My times are:
Norfair first save : 5:36
Before Ridley : 8:58
Before Kraid : 13:21
Tourian first save : 15:47
Tourian second save: 16:54
I even saved right before Ghost at 22:28, because I got sick of getting good drops, fighting MB and butchering Suitless. I don't remember if I got the 28:47 with that save or with the 16:54 one. The Kraid save will obviously be skipped now. And the Ghost one is obvious.
That was actually 15:37 at Tourian, right? The numbers seem to make a lot more sense that way. (I'll be really impressed if you managed a 1:07 Tourian segment, though.) I'd imagine you'll want 15:15 or a bit lower at the beginning of Tourian. Then you could maybe have 16:30 before mother brain, which would really be about 10 seconds or so behind the 27:40 (in which I have 16:14) because of having 40/6. You might be able to gain time on my last segment for all I know, though, since it was a bit slow. (I'm going to blame it mostly on bad luck with the ghost and Mecha Ridley....but in any case, that segment probably has about 15 seconds worth of possible improvement.)
Oops, 15:37 indeed.
Also, FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. I was doing a SS and I had 15:36 at start of Tourian and then Tourian was like lolfuckyou. This is easily the WORST Tourian run I've ever had. I had 8 missiles passing the Tourian save.... I left the planet at 19:33. >___< Might not even bother playing the rest. :(
Okay, so I did play the rest of the game, because training is good I guess. I had a pretty decent to good end-game aside from a few hiccups. I had 30:10 lol and my best time SS is 29:42. Had Tourian been decent, I would easily beat that record. Oh well. :( The only things that hit me in the entire section were those lasery things that zap electricy during the escape lol.
Also, FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. I was doing a SS and I had 15:36 at start of Tourian and then Tourian was like lolfuckyou. This is easily the WORST Tourian run I've ever had. I had 8 missiles passing the Tourian save.... I left the planet at 19:33. >___< Might not even bother playing the rest. :(
Okay, so I did play the rest of the game, because training is good I guess. I had a pretty decent to good end-game aside from a few hiccups. I had 30:10 lol and my best time SS is 29:42. Had Tourian been decent, I would easily beat that record. Oh well. :( The only things that hit me in the entire section were those lasery things that zap electricy during the escape lol.