Why single player is so criticized?

2007-01-14 04:08:23 am

I have read the reviews, tracked the forums: single player sucks, or else is ok but not "real" metroid, etc.

Well, I finally got the game and was actually pleasantly surprised. I am having a great time with single player mode, and it feels like metroid to me: lots of running around, getting new weapons, fighting things out of your way to get at hidden switches, etc.

I was expecting to have cramping hands due to bad controls. Maybe I play relaxed, maybe it's because I'm a lefty, but the controls play like a dream for me -- the stylus mode perfect for first person shooting.

The recycling of bosses I buy as a criticism, but at least they play a little differently each time, which makes up for it somewhat.

The complaints about the repeated countdowns I accept as well, especially when combined with severe fighting to get back to the ship. The 4th boss, after which you take on Trace was especially tough for me: even after you beat Trace, it can take too long, and so you run out of time when you fight the androids just before the ship. If only there was another fucking checkpoint, then what turned out to be a 3 hour game session could have been a 20 minute session as originally planned.

The one complaint I have that I didn't expect is that the cut scenes are too "pretty". They look so realistic that it is jarring when one switches to them before and after fighting a boss. It would have been less disconcerting, more immersive, to just use the game engine with them.

But in spite of that I find myself playing intensely, with adrenaline and excitement, and look forward to continued exploring. This is pretty much how I felt with MP1 and MP2. It seems like MPH is doing something right.

It is clear to me the level of effort and passion that went into MPH. Overall I am very impressed. It's a very immersive game and fun as hell, and proves the DS to be a nicely capable machine.

MPH is definitely providing me the metroid fix until MP3 comes out.

So what's the basis for the passion against single player mode that many seem to have on this forum? To me, the game is good enough that the few flaws seem relatively minor compared to the fun one has overall.

As for multiplayer, it looks intense to say the least. I tried it once and got smoked. I plan to be back once I am better and take a bit of revenge :-).

Thread title:

I have read the reviews, tracked the forums: single player sucks, or else is ok but not "real" metroid, etc.

Well, I finally got the game and was actually pleasantly surprised. I am having a great time with single player mode, and it feels like metroid to me: lots of running around, getting new weapons, fighting things out of your way to get at hidden switches, etc.

I was expecting to have cramping hands due to bad controls. Maybe I play relaxed, maybe it's because I'm a lefty, but the controls play like a dream for me -- the stylus mode perfect for first person shooting.

The recycling of bosses I buy as a criticism, but at least they play a little differently each time, which makes up for it somewhat.

The complaints about the repeated countdowns I accept as well, especially when combined with severe fighting to get back to the ship. The 4th boss, after which you take on Trace was especially tough for me: even after you beat Trace, it can take too long, and so you run out of time when you fight the androids just before the ship. If only there was another fucking checkpoint, then what turned out to be a 3 hour game session could have been a 20 minute session as originally planned.

The one complaint I have that I didn't expect is that the cut scenes are too "pretty". They look so realistic that it is jarring when one switches to them before and after fighting a boss. It would have been less disconcerting, more immersive, to just use the game engine with them.

But in spite of that I find myself playing intensely, with adrenaline and excitement, and look forward to continued exploring. This is pretty much how I felt with MP1 and MP2. It seems like MPH is doing something right.

It is clear to me the level of effort and passion that went into MPH. Overall I am very impressed. It's a very immersive game and fun as hell, and proves the DS to be a nicely capable machine.

MPH is definitely providing me the metroid fix until MP3 comes out.

So what's the basis for the passion against single player mode that many seem to have on this forum? To me, the game is good enough that the few flaws seem relatively minor compared to the fun one has overall.

As for multiplayer, it looks intense to say the least. I tried it once and got smoked. I plan to be back once I am better and take a bit of revenge :-).

Banjonator

2007-01-14 05:34:39 am

I have only played the single player mode and have to say: too easy
It's a totally different Metroid game. And one thing I don't like is: WHY IS IT A "PRIME" GAME????

Multiplayer: Never played (only in the demo version)

nate

2007-01-14 03:54:24 pm

Quote from Banjonator:

WHY IS IT A "PRIME" GAME????

it's 3d? i dunno.

Banjonator

2007-01-14 04:03:46 pm

yeah, but Retro said that the "Prime" TRILOGY will end with Metroid Prime 3: Corruption. So let's see: Metroid Prime 1, Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

So what the hell? Metroid Prime Hunters should have been named Metroid Hunters...
Same with Pinball, but it's just a Pinball version of Metroid Prime, so I think it's okay.

13M13

2007-01-14 04:53:30 pm

l'appel du vide

Who cares...it's just a name.

arkarian

2007-01-14 09:52:56 pm

red chamber dream

Isn't it supposed to show what happens between Prime and Echoes (or maybe between Echoes and Corruption? ... I can't quite recall)? It's sort of an offshoot and not part of the main trilogy, but it's a Prime game nonetheless.

I actually quite like the Hunters single player mode when I played it the first time. Admittedly, I haven't touched the game since then, but that's only because I've been busy with others. Hunters was also moderately tough, which I welcomed gleefully, as Echoes was pitifully easy.

Yoshi348

2007-01-14 10:06:03 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Well, the boss-o-clono-matic SUCKED.

Prime Hunter

2007-01-14 10:38:27 pm

Truthfully, I think it was a combination of the multiplanet and boss clones that stand out as the "bad" parts of the game. The multiple planets would've been fine if there was more exploration involved with them. Instead, it became VERY obvious where you are supposed to go because there is only ONE way to go on most of them. (But with games that aren't as focused on exploration, this is something I don't have a problem with if it happens often: The Ratchet and Clank series comes to mind.)

I'm hoping that Corruption can avoid that for the most part, because it's also going to be a multiplanet game.

Rox

2007-01-15 12:47:04 pm

I don't mind the single player too much. I discourage non-Metroiders from trying it, because honestly, I'm not sure what they expect. It's still a Metroid game, and if you're not used to how Metroid works, it can turn out to be a VERY frustrating one at that. Honestly, I found some of the exploration kinda annoying. Especially that damn first orange door that you can't even see on your map because it's the exact same color as the wall... You have to remember where you saw it the first time, or you're lost.

That, and the constantly reused bosses. But other than that, it's a fantastic game, and I still believe that the multiplayer, with some fixes and revampings, has enough potential to actually be a plausible game for a stationary console. I really do think the Hunters multiplayer could stand up to some of the current big-timers, if there were just greater variety.

It IS a great game. And yes, I suspect it's called Prime because it's it follows the same style as the Prime games, even if it's not part of the main series.

I don't mind the single player too much. I discourage non-Metroiders from trying it, because honestly, I'm not sure what they expect. It's still a Metroid game, and if you're not used to how Metroid works, it can turn out to be a VERY frustrating one at that. Honestly, I found some of the exploration kinda annoying. Especially that damn first orange door that you can't even see on your map because it's the exact same color as the wall... You have to remember where you saw it the first time, or you're lost.

That, and the constantly reused bosses. But other than that, it's a fantastic game, and I still believe that the multiplayer, with some fixes and revampings, has enough potential to actually be a plausible game for a stationary console. I really do think the Hunters multiplayer could stand up to some of the current big-timers, if there were just greater variety.

It IS a great game. And yes, I suspect it's called Prime because it's it follows the same style as the Prime games, even if it's not part of the main series.

Derek

2007-01-16 01:41:00 pm

Quote from Rox:

I still believe that the multiplayer, with some fixes and revampings, has enough potential to actually be a plausible game for a stationary console. I really do think the Hunters multiplayer could stand up to some of the current big-timers, if there were just greater variety.

It could be quite good indeed, but it needs a lot of work. First of all, its way too glitchy, and while this may be fun at times, it ruins multiplayer when people start abusing holes in the walls and such. The balance is also way off, some hunters are decidedly better than others, and alt-forms in general are almost always better than biped forms due to their extra speed, this compounds with the far too plentiful health packs in such away that its pretty easy, especially with the faster alt forms, to just run around picking up health packs, attack the enemy quickly, and the moment you take damage run away for more health. Cheating is also a problem that I don't think Nintendo expected. Hunters could really use a patch to fix the muliplayer (although I doubt the cartridge allows patching):
1. Make the level walls more secure to prevent jumping outside the game world, and remove other glitches (such as shadowfreeze) as well.
2. Rebalance all the weapons, characters, and most especially, the alt forms (I would say make them slower and somehow limit their use)
3. Reduce the number and effectiveness of health packs.
4. Reduce the max health to 100, so that players spawn with max health and a fighting chance.
5. Somehow prevent people from cheating with action replays or other devices.

Its a good first try at online multiplayer for Nintendo, but any future games will need to be better than this, and allow for critical patching when inevitable bugs come up.

Ok, that was my Hunters multiplayer mini-rant. :P

[quote="Rox"]I still believe that the multiplayer, with some fixes and revampings, has enough potential to actually be a plausible game for a stationary console. I really do think the Hunters multiplayer could stand up to some of the current big-timers, if there were just greater variety.[/quote]
It could be quite good indeed, but it needs a lot of work. First of all, its way too glitchy, and while this may be fun at times, it ruins multiplayer when people start abusing holes in the walls and such. The balance is also way off, some hunters are decidedly better than others, and alt-forms in general are almost always better than biped forms due to their extra speed, this compounds with the far too plentiful health packs in such away that its pretty easy, especially with the faster alt forms, to just run around picking up health packs, attack the enemy quickly, and the moment you take damage run away for more health. Cheating is also a problem that I don't think Nintendo expected. Hunters could really use a patch to fix the muliplayer (although I doubt the cartridge allows patching):
1. Make the level walls more secure to prevent jumping outside the game world, and remove other glitches (such as shadowfreeze) as well.
2. Rebalance all the weapons, characters, and most especially, the alt forms (I would say make them slower and somehow limit their use)
3. Reduce the number and effectiveness of health packs.
4. Reduce the max health to 100, so that players spawn with max health and a fighting chance.
5. Somehow prevent people from cheating with action replays or other devices.

Its a good first try at online multiplayer for Nintendo, but any future games will need to be better than this, and allow for critical patching when inevitable bugs come up.

Ok, that was my Hunters multiplayer mini-rant. :P

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2007-01-16 07:14:43 pm

its critisized so much because we can't speedrun it yet. :P

groovemeister

2007-01-23 08:25:28 pm

Wow, you echo my thoughts - to the point that I almost made a thread saying the same thing!

The FMV intro is one thing, but the ship going to the planet and then turning up polygonal and with low texturing or even worse are the impressive looking bosses which then look pants in comparison (but would look fine without the FMV as there is no comparing).

I've never liked FMV unless it's a prerendered game as in say the Abe Oddysee and Exoddus- there's zero fluidity to a game switching between FMV and real time and it's time wasted on games like Hunters. Now, games that have great non FMV cutscenes I have dinged on about how great they are - the mini scenes in the GC Primes like entering the ship spring to mind in fact. But yeah, RE Hunters I'd rather just see the bosses, etc. as is.

And the countdowns suck due to the confrontation; they'd be better placed when there is no countdown, relying more on skill and tactics than "OMG I've got to blow this mother away quick!". I think what it boils down to is maybe Retro focussed on the multi too much, which is a shame considering Primes 1 and 2's solid adventuring (although #2 did annoy me a tad with a few bits and bobs - thread here).

But yes - it's an enjoyable single player romp however I can't help feeling that it would have been better were it not for the above.

Wow, you echo my thoughts - to the point that I almost made a thread saying the same thing!

The FMV intro is one thing, but the ship going to the planet and then turning up polygonal and with low texturing or even worse are the impressive looking bosses which then look pants in comparison (but would look fine without the FMV as there is no comparing).

I've never liked FMV unless it's a prerendered game as in say the Abe Oddysee and Exoddus- there's zero fluidity to a game switching between FMV and real time and it's time wasted on games like Hunters. Now, games that have great non FMV cutscenes I have dinged on about how great they are - the mini scenes in the GC Primes like entering the ship spring to mind in fact.   But yeah, RE Hunters I'd rather just see the bosses, etc. as is.

And the countdowns suck due to the confrontation; they'd be better placed when there is no countdown, relying more on skill and tactics than "OMG I've got to blow this mother away quick!".  I think what it boils down to is maybe Retro focussed on the multi too much, which is a shame considering Primes 1 and 2's solid adventuring (although #2 did annoy me a tad with a few bits and bobs - [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2187&highlight=pales]thread here[/url]).

But yes - it's an enjoyable single player romp however I can't help feeling that it would have been better were it not for the above.

Derek

2007-01-23 08:40:48 pm

I'm pretty sure Retro didn't actually make the game themselves. Although I could be wrong, I think it was developed NoA's in house developement team.

Yoshi348

2007-01-24 04:25:20 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from Derek:

I'm pretty sure Retro didn't actually make the game themselves. Although I could be wrong, I think it was developed NoA's in house developement team.

Correct. "Nintendo Software Technology Company" I think it was. IIRC there's an early "yo thanks" credit for Retro, but that's it.

groovemeister

2007-02-05 06:55:29 am

It would explain a lot - much as with the Oracle games in Zelda or Yoshi's Island 2; great games as they are, they don't feel like actual sequels, more like spin offs.

SkippyJr

2007-02-05 01:58:59 pm

Recall that Retro was as surprised as any of us when Hunters was revieled. It might be possible that Retro gave assistance. For instance, Andrew Jones for art direction.

Here is a nice quote from Mr. Jones about the game, in his own words:

Quote:

As the Nintendo projects went on, I gained the trust of the original ‘Metroid’ creators and all the art directors. I felt I was given more freedom as I went on. There was definitely more freedom in ‘Metroid Prime 2’ and in this last game ‘Metroid Prime 3’, it was definitely much more of an open canvas to work with them. I also did ‘Metroid Hunter’ which is the PlayStation version.

From http://www.ballisticpublishing.com/articles/andrew_jones/index02.php

Tahngarthor

2007-02-05 02:31:54 pm

Bangaa Bishop

Quote from SkippyJr:

Recall that Retro was as surprised as any of us when Hunters was revieled. It might be possible that Retro gave assistance. For instance, Andrew Jones for art direction.

Here is a nice quote from Mr. Jones about the game, in his own words:

Quote:

As the Nintendo projects went on, I gained the trust of the original ‘Metroid’ creators and all the art directors. I felt I was given more freedom as I went on. There was definitely more freedom in ‘Metroid Prime 2’ and in this last game ‘Metroid Prime 3’, it was definitely much more of an open canvas to work with them. I also did ‘Metroid Hunter’ which is the PlayStation version.

From http://www.ballisticpublishing.com/articles/andrew_jones/index02.php

ummmm.... playstation version?

nate

2007-02-05 03:18:48 pm

you haven't heard about the ps1 port? way better graphics apparently.

groovemeister

2007-02-06 03:04:33 pm

Just read the page... so they don't actually all work on Metroid - they draft some people in?

Hmm.... looking at his artwork, you can see where Metroid Echoes was coming from. Shame he knows sweets FA about console formats.