What do people like in hacks?

2008-12-30 04:22:25 am

What'd you say?

I'm continuing my hacking but i let my step brother and my cousin play what i finished, they both liked and hated different parts, so i'm just going to ask a question in general.

What aspect do people look for in hacks?

Thanks for any info. you give to help me out.

Thread title:

devonodev

2008-12-30 04:45:40 am

Devonodev: Other D

I personally perfer skill-based hacks that use alot of tricks and are fairly linear.
But I'm guessing that most popular will be... Exploration. Or mabye scenery.

Quietus

2008-12-30 05:36:05 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I just enjoy new designs for the rooms themselves. If all of your rooms look very different, then the exploration kind of comes alongside it naturally. This also goes hand-in-hand with new tiles, but they need to fit with the Metroid theme, unless you're deliberately going for something more 'outside the box', such as squishy's Rainbow City.

I don't mind basic tricks, such as wall-jumping, double bomb-jumps, lenient mid-air morphing or wall-jump morphing, but prefer that the more difficult tricks be left for 100% collection only.

shinlvl2darkchozo

2008-12-30 05:51:02 am

XEL NAGA from CHOZO? ADUN TORIDAS

design , new beam ,new item

Steyiak

2008-12-30 05:59:45 am

Many ASM hacks and good level design. Very Happy

Gaius_4

Edit history:

Gaius_4: 2008-12-30 06:34:54 am

2008-12-30 06:31:32 am

I said Large amounts of exploration. But... I don't want to feel like I'm getting lost or running around in circles. Like in Pantheon. That's why I gave up on that one... Well, actually I got stuck behind a gate without the wave beam. That was the nail in the coffin for me. Embarassed

But some other people like it a lot. Diff'ernt Strokes for Diff'ernt Folks -I guess. Confused

Edit: So.... If it's going to be fun to explore - there has to be enough variety or 'coolness' to the levels (Good Level Design). Always something to draw you in further and deeper into the game.

Phazar

2008-12-30 10:23:11 am

...

Exploration is the best part of a hack.

squishy_ichigo

2008-12-30 10:46:07 am

. . .

Metroid is at its core an exploration game. Hacks are no different, and its what usually seperates the good from the bad.

I myself prefer exploration, but like gaius don't like running in circles getting lost. I feel kind of bad that I did that in Pantheon... eh.
But even though exploration is important, don't forget to try and keep it as original as possible. Keep the player guessing what will happen next, it increases the experience, (unless its in a frustrating way... that would do quite the opposite!)

Alot of hackers have started using GFX changes since is a good way to give your hack a different flavor from all those other hacks out there. Another new thing people have starting doing is full hacks. Half hacks are fun and all, but full hacks are the way to go!

But what ever you decide to do, just remeber everyones different, you'll make some people happy, and others upset, you can't please everyone at once. Not with hacking. Not with gaming. Not with anything.

Deep_Space_Observer

2008-12-30 11:33:57 am

Exploration and seeing the ideas the creator put into use are my favorite part, and I find it important to make the exploration part as fun as possible. To me, "fun" generally means easily explorable, in a way that, not the stunts being made super easy, but not a lot of stunts required. I'd much prefer a room with one fast morph jump and then I'm running on my way rather than four easy morph jumps that slow the speed you can move through the room, if you know what I mean.

I also love secret shortcut paths, especially when they take me to an area I'm not certain if I should be in it yet.

Opium

2008-12-30 01:37:23 pm

I put 'Large amounts of exploration', although I would rather have said it was 'new items, new physics, new beams' but that wasn't even an option for some reason.

MetroidMst

2008-12-30 01:55:43 pm

Go ahead. Stare.

Exploration. I've got every Metroid game's layout memorized, and so I really enjoy new set-ups in hacks. I do not like needing super-advanced pixel-perfect type tricks in the "normal" path of the game. For %100 those tricks are great, but not really to advance/beat the game. As DSO mentioned secret paths are awesome, especially if hidden really well and lead to an important item early.

Phazar

Edit history:

Phazar: 2008-12-30 07:49:52 pm

2008-12-30 02:08:34 pm

...

One thing I try to do in my hacks is add alternate paths to expand exploration, hide items in the least likely places you would expect, and surprise players with crumble blocks in a "safe" looking area. Stuff like that is what makes a great hack.

Tyjet66

2008-12-30 04:44:29 pm

What'd you say?

Thanks for the opinions guys, i'll have to play around with this and see what i can do grin new

MetroidMst

2008-12-30 04:50:04 pm

Go ahead. Stare.

Don't forget, hacking should be fun for you. If it isn't there is no point to making it.

Tyjet66

2008-12-30 04:52:19 pm

What'd you say?

I have fun doing it, i just need to come up with more ideas, and i need motivation to keep doing it (unless i'm doing like 1 room every other day...)

When i'm hacking i'm going to try and implement all the aspects that people like

MetroidMst

2008-12-30 09:33:43 pm

Go ahead. Stare.

I have issues of motivation sometimes. I work on an area and like that tileset, I need to work on a new area and I don't want to use that tileset... Bleh... Anyway, don't rush it, and don't worry about redoing rooms you've completed. (Myself and DSO have done that so many times that counting the stars at night would be easier.)

Cardweaver

2008-12-30 10:41:33 pm

I didn't vote. I pseudo-voted for "other."

Hacks in my opinion should incorporate more than one of those things. Exploration, tricks, and difficulty all put together are what make a really good hack.

DMantra

(user is banned)

2008-12-31 12:10:48 am

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Exploration is a given so I don't know why it's something you can vote for, it's obvious why it has the most votes.
You go from room to room and backtrack, therefore you're exploring. It's the genre of the game.

Large amounts of exploration? Well then the question is do you want a full hack, half hack, or mini-hack.

I voted for detail. I want the areas I explore to feel new, and hopefully alien.

Sadiztik Fish

2008-12-31 12:55:16 am

OMG FLAN!!!!!!!

I don't get why exploration wouldn't be in ANY metroid game. The entire metroid series is built on exploring areas to find your objective. I think what more hacks need now is more unique scenery and much more detail. So far Dmantra is the only one to completely rape the scenery idea.

We need more hacks that have immensly detailed rooms (well not too detailed, but more than just a simple foreground with pointer BG).

Tyjet66

Edit history:

Tyjet66: 2008-12-31 01:36:44 am

2008-12-31 01:32:26 am

What'd you say?

Quote from Opium:

I put 'Large amounts of exploration', although I would rather have said it was 'new items, new physics, new beams' but that wasn't even an option for some reason.

Thats only cause i don't know how to do that at the moment, i'm looking into it though.

What i meant for Large amounts of exploration is that its more than what should be there, alot of backtracking, going in circles ect...

Zeku

2008-12-31 06:47:02 am

I'm going to be blunt and honest, so don't have a cow.

Story is everything. It is literally 100%. Story is the bait, and without the bait I will never look at anything else. Without some compelling reason for what I'm looking at to be taking place, I won't spend more than a few minutes looking at your hack. It's always possible that something else could grab me, some amazing new gameplay idea, or some unexpected visual, something that makes me feel as though I'm in a real and important place, but that is still the story.

I don't like the direction that any recent metroid games have gone. I don't like space pirates because I don't know what their deal is. Are they supposed to be an organized terrorist group or full-profit organization? Then why this absurd preoccupation with biological weapons? What exactly is keeping the Federation from showing up with real shock troops, that just saturate an area with energy weapons and then clean up?

I think nearly everyone agrees that Prime's entire storyline was vague, random, self-contradictory, and unfortunately unrelated to the original games. Tying Samus to the bird-creatures was tolerable, but it was also fairly tame. No blood-soaked past, no impetus to become a beautiful badass. Just some oddball new age bird family.

Fusion was closer to a reasonable level of plot progression, but still had a wonky and uninspired ending and context. The computer ended up being stupid instead of spooky, which appeared to be it's intent.

We still know nothing of interest about metroid evolution, the Aurora units, (which is the best plot point to come along since over-sized baby metroids) or the context of the world in which Samus exists, or Samus herself.

Write something that doesn't suck! And then make a world out of it.

I'm going to be blunt and honest, so don't have a cow.

Story is everything.  It is literally 100%.  Story is the bait, and without the bait I will never look at anything else.  Without some compelling reason for what I'm looking at to be taking place, I won't spend more than a few minutes looking at your hack.  It's always possible that something else could grab me, some amazing new gameplay idea, or some unexpected visual, something that makes me feel as though I'm in a real and important place, but that is still the story.

I don't like the direction that any recent metroid games have gone.  I don't like space pirates because I don't know what their deal is.  Are they supposed to be an organized terrorist group or full-profit organization?  Then why this absurd preoccupation with biological weapons?  What exactly is keeping the Federation from showing up with real shock troops, that just saturate an area with energy weapons and then clean up?

I think nearly everyone agrees that Prime's entire storyline was vague, random, self-contradictory, and unfortunately unrelated to the original games.  Tying Samus to the bird-creatures was tolerable, but it was also fairly tame.  No blood-soaked past, no impetus to become a beautiful badass.  Just some oddball new age bird family.

Fusion was closer to a reasonable level of plot progression, but still had a wonky and uninspired ending and context.  The computer ended up being stupid instead of spooky, which appeared to be it's intent.

We still know nothing of interest about metroid evolution, the Aurora units, (which is the best plot point to come along since over-sized baby metroids) or the context of the world in which Samus exists, or Samus herself.

Write something that doesn't suck!  And then make a world out of it.

Gaius_4

2008-12-31 09:25:44 am

One thing that's good... Putting in something that makes the player learn something new or difficult - which should help them become a better player.

Opium

2008-12-31 09:56:20 am

Quote from Zeku:

Story is everything. It is literally 100%. Story is the bait, and without the bait I will never look at anything else. Without some compelling reason for what I'm looking at to be taking place, I won't spend more than a few minutes looking at your hack. It's always possible that something else could grab me, some amazing new gameplay idea, or some unexpected visual, something that makes me feel as though I'm in a real and important place, but that is still the story.

I don't like the direction that any recent metroid games have gone. I don't like space pirates because I don't know what their deal is. Are they supposed to be an organized terrorist group or full-profit organization? Then why this absurd preoccupation with biological weapons? What exactly is keeping the Federation from showing up with real shock troops, that just saturate an area with energy weapons and then clean up?

I think nearly everyone agrees that Prime's entire storyline was vague, random, self-contradictory, and unfortunately unrelated to the original games. Tying Samus to the bird-creatures was tolerable, but it was also fairly tame. No blood-soaked past, no impetus to become a beautiful badass. Just some oddball new age bird family.

Fusion was closer to a reasonable level of plot progression, but still had a wonky and uninspired ending and context. The computer ended up being stupid instead of spooky, which appeared to be it's intent.

We still know nothing of interest about metroid evolution, the Aurora units, (which is the best plot point to come along since over-sized baby metroids) or the context of the world in which Samus exists, or Samus herself.

I agree with you about the importance of story, and the metroid story is full of holes. That's why this is my dream game:

Quote from Opium:

Metroid: Origins. basically a game which tells the story of samus' childhood, being raised & trained by the chozo, and how the metroids were created (or were discovered, its still not clear). I picture it to be a third person 3D game, like TP or OoT. The storytelling and plot-hole filling potential is huge, some very creative people could make so many things clear: how the chozo technologies were invented and how they really work, what exactly was the original ridley/kraid and where did they come from, how the chozo came to settle on so many planets, where exactly Earth fits into the metroid universe, what the hell are space pirates anyways, etc etc. Could be the best game ever made. *sigh* I daydream about it.

[quote="Zeku"]

Story is everything.  It is literally 100%.  Story is the bait, and without the bait I will never look at anything else.  Without some compelling reason for what I'm looking at to be taking place, I won't spend more than a few minutes looking at your hack.  It's always possible that something else could grab me, some amazing new gameplay idea, or some unexpected visual, something that makes me feel as though I'm in a real and important place, but that is still the story.

I don't like the direction that any recent metroid games have gone.  I don't like space pirates because I don't know what their deal is.  Are they supposed to be an organized terrorist group or full-profit organization?  Then why this absurd preoccupation with biological weapons?  What exactly is keeping the Federation from showing up with real shock troops, that just saturate an area with energy weapons and then clean up?

I think nearly everyone agrees that Prime's entire storyline was vague, random, self-contradictory, and unfortunately unrelated to the original games.  Tying Samus to the bird-creatures was tolerable, but it was also fairly tame.  No blood-soaked past, no impetus to become a beautiful badass.  Just some oddball new age bird family.

Fusion was closer to a reasonable level of plot progression, but still had a wonky and uninspired ending and context.  The computer ended up being stupid instead of spooky, which appeared to be it's intent.

We still know nothing of interest about metroid evolution, the Aurora units, (which is the best plot point to come along since over-sized baby metroids) or the context of the world in which Samus exists, or Samus herself.

[/quote]

I agree with you about the importance of story, and the metroid story is full of holes.   That's why this is my dream game:

[quote="Opium"]
Metroid: Origins.       basically a game which tells the story of samus' childhood, being raised & trained by the chozo, and how the metroids were created (or were discovered, its still not clear).  I picture it to be a third person 3D game, like TP or OoT.   The storytelling and plot-hole filling potential is huge, some very creative people could make so many things clear: how the chozo technologies were invented and how they really work,  what exactly was the original ridley/kraid and where did they come from, how the chozo came to settle on so many planets, where exactly Earth fits into the metroid universe, what the hell are space pirates anyways, etc etc.  Could be the best game ever made.   *sigh*  I daydream about it.  
[/quote]

normad

2008-12-31 12:59:56 pm

I like detailed room designs and challenging tricks, for the most part.

Weretindere

2008-12-31 02:37:58 pm

Just one thing, breaking. It's the one reason I despise most hacks, they're ALL too linear. Either you know how to do a trick, or you can't progress at all. It's the only thing that makes the original bearable to me at this point, 'Should I skip Spore Spawn, or blast him for fun?' I like having the choice to IBJ, speed/mockball, short charge, or even a hell run, not be forced to use them.
Also, it would be kind of nice for someone to change the gravity so you can wall jump regularly underwater, make every expansion a regular missile, remove every beam upgrade (or start with hyper, coded so it freezes every enemy and can't kill ANYTHING except MB, lol), and top it off with a couple of rooms with absolutely NO platforms, not even to a door, just a big, empty square/rectangle of nothingness, with not even a crumble block, not even a crumble block. cookie

	Large amounts of exploration	(16)
	scenery	(5)
	certain tricks (please specify)	(5)
	certain challenges (please specify)	(0)
	mazes ect....	(1)