waste of time talk

2004-09-09 11:18:43 am

Quote from typical skeleton:

especially when it isn't sanctioned or logged officially

This is the bull that is TG. "Official" my butt, they are no more official than me... and I at least post the videos online for anyone to view. TG posts times only for people to drool at and keep their strats private. That's why they are a waste of time and speed runs for public display are not.

Kharay1977

2004-09-09 01:23:49 pm

Quote from Radix:

Quote from typical skeleton:

especially when it isn't sanctioned or logged officially

This is the bull that is TG. "Official" my butt, they are no more official than me... and I at least post the videos online for anyone to view. TG posts times only for people to drool at and keep their strats private. That's why they are a waste of time and speed runs for public display are not.

Couldn't agree with you more there, Radix. There never was an official decree that TG is "the" authority on world records for games. They're NOT the Guiness Book of Worldrecords for games. They're just not.
So, indeed... official... my foot.

Yoshi348

2004-09-09 01:53:38 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from Yoshi348:

"Wasting your time" appears to be too deeply rooted in one's philosophical lookout on life to be used in an argument.

Izo

2004-09-09 02:43:46 pm

soaking through

Nate never said speed running for TG was a waste of time. Just that they were arseholes who wasted other people's time. Your first post was also unnecessarily hostile, as was your last post. You are simply trolling.

SonicandTails218

2004-09-09 03:33:11 pm

*looks up. Clicks "1". Looks up*

What have I done?

*changes the topic to reflect new discussion*

kip

2004-09-09 04:00:35 pm

Haha.

Go wasting time.

Radix

2004-09-09 05:30:38 pm

/me bans Yoshi for using big letters. :P

sdkess

2004-09-09 07:02:04 pm

Quote:

They're NOT the Guiness Book of Worldrecords for games.

Well, Guinness has used TG as the supplier for video game and pinball records in the past. I could be mistaken, but I think Guiness stopped tracking video game scores and deferred to TG since it was becoming rather difficult to keep up with all of the games and the different settings for them. TG also holds tournaments and works in conjunction with top gaming leagues and tournament organizers.

This does not mean that there are no video game world records outside of TG. I hold several WRs on Super Monkey Ball 1 & 2 for GameCube, and as far as I'm concerned, "The Super Monkey Ball Elite" (Klow.net) is where the world records are. If someone sends lesser scores to TG then I will not recognize them as WRs. If the gaming community recognizes any organization as official, then it will be so which is why records at reputable places like SDA, The Elite, etc are official. In my eyes, the best <b>proven</b> score is the true world record regardless of which organization tracks it.

*switches gears*

As far as wasting times goes, Yoshi nailed it. Even by typical skeleton's subjective logic, gaming has not been a waste of time for me. Playing games got me interested in computers (I had no interest in them beforehand) which led to a successful career full of "productivity".

[quote]They're NOT the Guiness Book of Worldrecords for games.[/quote]
Well, Guinness has used TG as the supplier for video game and pinball records in the past. I could be mistaken, but I think Guiness stopped tracking video game scores and deferred to TG since it was becoming rather difficult to keep up with all of the games and the different settings for them. TG also holds tournaments and works in conjunction with top gaming leagues and tournament organizers.

This does not mean that there are no video game world records outside of TG. I hold several WRs on Super Monkey Ball 1 & 2 for GameCube, and as far as I'm concerned, "The Super Monkey Ball Elite" (Klow.net) is where the world records are. If someone sends lesser scores to TG then I will not recognize them as WRs. If the gaming community recognizes any organization as official, then it will be so which is why records at reputable places like SDA, The Elite, etc are official. In my eyes, the best <b>proven</b> score is the true world record regardless of which organization tracks it.

*switches gears*

As far as wasting times goes, Yoshi nailed it. Even by typical skeleton's subjective logic, gaming has not been a waste of time for me. Playing games got me interested in computers (I had no interest in them beforehand) which led to a successful career full of "productivity".

Kharay1977

2004-09-09 07:23:00 pm

Quote from sdkess:

Well, Guinness has used TG as the supplier for video game and pinball records in the past. I could be mistaken, but I think Guiness stopped tracking video game scores and deferred to TG since it was becoming rather difficult to keep up with all of the games and the different settings for them. TG also holds tournaments and works in conjunction with top gaming leagues and tournament organizers.

Well still, even if they have been 'appointed' by Guiness, it doesn't mean a whole lot. TG aren't internationally sanctioned, nor are they internationally 'recognized' as being the worldrecord organization for games. I didn't even know they existed until about half a year ago (and TG is now in its 15th year, I believe). And I've been playing games for 20 years. So... they're not... important.

typical skeleton

2004-09-09 07:23:52 pm

*flamepile*

Kharay1977

2004-09-09 08:01:23 pm

Quote from typical skeleton:

how is that more of a waste of time than metroid2002?... as if you guys don't have your own general "rules". "that's considered cheating, blah blah blah".

Indeed...

Quote from typical skeleton:

and by "official", I meant it is published and released in hardback documentation (officially logged, documented, etc). you're putting far too much thought into "official" here. I never said it was signed and bonded by the U.N.

I detect a faint tendency to measure with 2 different standards in you. But that is just my humble opinion.

Quote from typical skeleton:

I'm done arguing with you nerds. I don't care if I'm hostile.

I wouldn't call me a nerd. Not in a billion years.

Quote from typical skeleton:

it's obvious you guys are one-sided and narrowminded.

Is it? I dont't see it that way.

Quote from typical skeleton:

I hope none of you 1) are over 16 and 2) have jobs or girlfriends, etc.

27, engaged to be married, internationally recognized phpBB expert. 6'3", 190lbs. Thank you, have a nice day.

Quote from typical skeleton:

....35 minutes, see if I care

You obviously do.

Quote from typical skeleton:

I'll be over here, you know.. doing meaningful things

Such as?

Quote from typical skeleton:

this puny little community on the internet

That is one way of looking at it, not a particularly mature one though.

Quote from typical skeleton:

participating in one-sided conversations with a bunch of nerdy kids isn't very high on my list of things to be doing anyway. it's just fun to get people riled up.

There's always the local Hell's Angels bar. I dare you to try... :-) And again, I would hardly call me a nerdy kid. I'm far from nerdy and haven't been a kid in ages.

[quote="typical skeleton"]how is that more of a waste of time than metroid2002?... as if you guys don't have your own general "rules".  "that's considered cheating, blah blah blah". [/quote]Indeed...[quote="typical skeleton"]and by "official", I meant it is published and released in hardback documentation (officially logged, documented, etc).  you're putting far too much thought into "official" here.  I never said it was signed and bonded by the U.N.[/quote]I detect a faint tendency to measure with 2 different standards in you. But that is just my humble opinion.[quote="typical skeleton"]I'm done arguing with you nerds.  I don't care if I'm hostile.[/quote]I wouldn't call me a nerd. Not in a billion years.[quote="typical skeleton"]it's obvious you guys are one-sided and narrowminded.[/quote]Is it? I dont't see it that way.[quote="typical skeleton"]I hope none of you 1) are over 16 and 2) have jobs or girlfriends, etc.[/quote]27, engaged to be married, internationally recognized phpBB expert. 6'3", 190lbs. Thank you, have a nice day.[quote="typical skeleton"]....35 minutes, see if I care[/quote]You obviously do.[quote="typical skeleton"]I'll be over here, you know.. doing meaningful things[/quote]Such as?[quote="typical skeleton"]this puny little community on the [i]internet[/i][/quote]That is one way of looking at it, not a particularly mature one though.[quote="typical skeleton"]participating in one-sided conversations with a bunch of nerdy kids isn't very high on my list of things to be doing anyway.  it's just fun to get people riled up.[/quote]There's always the local Hell's Angels bar. I dare you to try... :-) And again, I would hardly call me a nerdy kid. I'm far from nerdy and haven't been a kid in ages.

GreenMamba

2004-09-09 09:01:31 pm

What luck, there's french fry stuck in my beard.

Holy shit he's right! We do play Metroid a lot and speed run the games even though it will never help us in our lives! Aaagh!! We're meeeeltiiiiiing!!!

Yoshi348

2004-09-09 09:18:26 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from GreenMamba:

Holy gunship he's right! We do play Metroid a lot and speed run the games even though it will never help us in our lives! Aaagh!! We're meeeeltiiiiiing!!!

ROFL.

Any way, he broke into flaming first. I'm proud. (Not of him, of course...)

Might as well begin to splitx0rate.

EDIT: Oh, and skeleton? A little lesson on trolling. Saying X sucks is not trolling. Saying X sucks on a board devoted to X is. Saying TG sucks: not trolling. Saying TG sucks on TG's boards: trolling. Saying SDA sucks: not trolling. Saying SDA sucks on m2k2's boards: borderline trolling, because m2k2 has diversified heavily beyond it's orginal focus.

nick1presta

2004-09-09 10:32:45 pm

Quote:

you're not outdoors, you're not earning any awards, you're not competing with other people (directly, anyway), you're not playing in a league, you're not getting physical exercise, you're not particpating in a school program or other public function, you're not making friends, you're not making connections, and you have next to chance of ever "going pro" or anything even remotely similar to it -- whereas athletes who play sports and practice them (especially in school) atleast have some glimmer of a chance of doing so.

You're right, and you're wrong.

Sure, we aren't outdoors and we aren't gaining any exercise, but I doubt anyone on these forums is in dire need of it.

And we are playing in a league. The M2K2 league. A league:

Code:

An association of states, organizations, or individuals for common action

So in fact, we are in a league.

And no, we don't compete with other people directly, but we do compete.
And yes, we ARE making friends. Many people on this forum didn't know each other until now. And once they did, they shared a common intrest and became friends.
And speaking of "going pro", what are the chances of any high school student "going pro?"

And in a sense, people like RS, AJ, Radix ARE pro. Sure they don't get the mega bucks, but the pride and recognition is great.

Playing Metroid with such related people IS a comparision to sports. Not PHYSICAL sports, but mental sports. We play games in our leisure (hobby) and compete, compare, befriend and win.

Just like in sports.

Don't say games are a waste of time, because not everyone can be Lebron James or Carmello Anthony, and this is just as fun as playing sports sometimes. Not only that, we are doing what we like regardless.

[quote]you're not outdoors, you're not earning any awards, you're not competing with other people (directly, anyway), you're not playing in a league, you're not getting physical exercise, you're not particpating in a school program or other public function, you're not making friends, you're not making connections, and you have next to chance of ever "going pro" or anything even remotely similar to it -- whereas athletes who play sports and practice them (especially in school) atleast have some glimmer of a chance of doing so. [/quote]

You're right, and you're wrong.

Sure, we aren't outdoors and we aren't gaining any exercise, but I doubt anyone on these forums is in dire need of it.

And we are playing in a league. The M2K2 league. A league:

[code]An association of states, organizations, or individuals for common action[/code]

So in fact, we are in a league.

And no, we don't compete with other people directly, but we do compete. 
And yes, we ARE making friends. Many people on this forum didn't know each other until now. And once they did, they shared a common intrest and became friends.
And speaking of "going pro", what are the chances of any high school student "going pro?"

And in a sense, people like RS, AJ, Radix ARE pro. Sure they don't get the mega bucks, but the pride and recognition is great.

Playing Metroid with such related people IS a comparision to sports. Not PHYSICAL sports, but mental sports. We play games in our leisure (hobby) and compete, compare, befriend and win.

Just like in sports.

Don't say games are a waste of time, because not everyone can be Lebron James or Carmello Anthony, and this is just as fun as playing sports sometimes. Not only that, we are doing what we like regardless.

nate

2004-09-09 10:46:34 pm

Quote from Yoshi348:

Saying SDA sucks on m2k2's boards: borderline trolling, because m2k2 has diversified heavily beyond it's orginal focus.

m2k2 has? or do you mean that other m2k2, the flesh and blood one? ;P

Yoshi348

2004-09-10 12:00:57 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

I can personify anything I damn well please, thank you. :P

Goemon

2004-09-10 01:15:09 am

I don't know about anyone else, but I think this topic is a waste of time.

The way I see it, the value of one's time is a personal matter. Each person has certain things he or she enjoys doing. For that person, those things are not a waste of time. For someone else, with a different perspective, though, those things might be a waste of time. For a devout Catholic, going to church every week is not a waste of time, but an atheist might view that differently. For Metroid speedrunners, getting the best times is not a waste of time, but for others, it might be. It all depends on personal perspective. If Skeleton-guy wants to think that it's a waste of time, fine. He shouldn't be trolling it around our boards, though. That's a waste of everyone's time.

sdkess

2004-09-10 02:41:33 am

Hehe, looks like I missed the flamepile.

Quote from Kharay:

Well still, even if they have been 'appointed' by Guiness, it doesn't mean a whole lot. TG aren't internationally sanctioned, nor are they internationally 'recognized' as being the worldrecord organization for games. I didn't even know they existed until about half a year ago (and TG is now in its 15th year, I believe). And I've been playing games for 20 years. So... they're not... important.

TG may not be important to you, but by the same token, m2k2 is unimportant to people who don't play Metroid. People that play 80's arcade games competitively value TG highly. No score tracking organization is everything to everyone, TG included. That's why I prefer to include any reputable tracking organization when considering WRs. TG is certainly not the "only" show in town when it comes to gaming records. They do have a good reputation for accuracy (due to strict verification) and have been around longer than anyone else which does mean something.

I think that people are just irked when TG says they are official because it implies that everyone else is unofficial. Like I said in my other post, it is up to gamers to decide which records are official. I personally recognize any record with sufficient proof regardless of which site tracks it.

Hehe, looks like I missed the flamepile.

[quote="Kharay"]Well still, even if they have been 'appointed' by Guiness, it doesn't mean a whole lot. TG aren't internationally sanctioned, nor are they internationally 'recognized' as being the worldrecord organization for games. I didn't even know they existed until about half a year ago (and TG is now in its 15th year, I believe). And I've been playing games for 20 years. So... they're not... important.[/quote]
TG may not be important to you, but by the same token, m2k2 is unimportant to people who don't play Metroid. People that play 80's arcade games competitively value TG highly. No score tracking organization is everything to everyone, TG included. That's why I prefer to include any reputable tracking organization when considering WRs. TG is certainly not the "only" show in town when it comes to gaming records. They do have a good reputation for accuracy (due to strict verification) and have been around longer than anyone else which does mean something.

I think that people are just irked when TG says they are official because it implies that everyone else is unofficial. Like I said in my other post, it is up to gamers to decide which records are official. I personally recognize any record with sufficient proof regardless of which site tracks it.

Chozo Nut

2004-09-10 06:19:16 am

I agree whole heartily with Radix's comment. Speedrunning IS a waste of time, but only if your hard work never becomes public. And that is why I Respect Red Scarlet and Smokey for what they have done. And you may say there work was a waste of time. But it doesn't really matter as long as they put there heart and mind into it.
Reading this tread a curtian song came into my head. And I think the lyrics hold a lot of truth to what's been said here. So I thought I would share.

Hold your fire
Keep it burning bright
Hold the flame 'til the dream ignites
A spirit with a vision is a dream
With a mission

I hear their passionate music
Read the words that touch my heart
I gaze at their feverish pictures
The secrets that set them apart

When I feel the powerful visions
Their fire has made alive
I wish I had that instinct
I wish I had that drive

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire
Focused high on soaring ambitions
Consumed in a single desire

In the grip of a nameless possession
A slave to the drive of obsession
A spirit with a vision is a dream
With a mission

I watch their images flicker
Bringing light to a lifeless screen
I walk through their beautiful buildings
And I wish I had their dreams
But dreams don't need to have motion
To keep their spark alive
Obsession has to have action
Pride turns on the drive

It's cold comfort
To the ones without it
To know how they struggled
How they suffered about it
If their lives were exotic and strange
They would likely have gladly exchanged them
For something a little more plain
Maybe something a little more sane

We each pay a fabulous price
For our visions of paradise
But a spirit with a vision is a dream
With a mission

Rush - Mission

I agree whole heartily with Radix's comment. Speedrunning  [b]IS[/b] a waste of time, but only if your hard work never becomes public. And that is why I [b]Respect[/b] Red Scarlet and Smokey for what they have done. And you may say there work was a waste of time. But it doesn't really matter as long as they put there heart and mind into it.
Reading this tread a curtian song came into my head. And I think the lyrics hold a lot of truth to what's been said here. So I thought I would share.

Hold your fire
Keep it burning bright
Hold the flame 'til the dream ignites
A spirit with a vision is a dream
With a mission

I hear their passionate music
Read the words that touch my heart
I gaze at their feverish pictures
The secrets that set them apart

When I feel the powerful visions
Their fire has made alive
I wish I had that instinct
I wish I had that drive

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire
Focused high on soaring ambitions
Consumed in a single desire

In the grip of a nameless possession
A slave to the drive of obsession
A spirit with a vision is a dream
With a mission

I watch their images flicker
Bringing light to a lifeless screen
I walk through their beautiful buildings
And I wish I had their dreams
But dreams don't need to have motion
To keep their spark alive
Obsession has to have action
Pride turns on the drive

It's cold comfort
To the ones without it
To know how they struggled
How they suffered about it
If their lives were exotic and strange
They would likely have gladly exchanged them
For something a little more plain
Maybe something a little more sane

We each pay a fabulous price
For our visions of paradise
But a spirit with a vision is a dream
With a mission

Rush - Mission

GameAddict

2004-09-10 09:28:45 pm

That was kinda moving. Sort of imo, man has a tendency to get a competitive itch, and it only comes natural to scratch that annoying itch, in this case, with speed running.

Red Scarlet

2004-09-11 05:33:14 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

This topic is new for me, and I guess I missed some good posts..so I'll just refer to an old saying and then flip it around, "one man's junk is another man's treasure" or "one person's waste of time is another person's form of enjoyment".

What = a waste of time to you does not = a waste of time for everyone else; everybody is different. Personally I believe professional sports are a waste of time (except baseball and bowling, cause they're fun), but I don't go to ESPN boards or something and tell them what to do with their free time.

Oh, and I'm 21 and looking. :o

bartendorsparky

2004-09-11 11:46:02 am

always move fast

Quote from typical skeleton:

i.e, earns you experience you can use in your career, or on a resume; makes your bathroom more sanitary (you know.. cleaning it); improves physical fitness; helps the needy; earns you merits or other such things you can use later to show experience, etc; gives you practical experience you can apply directly to real life; it educates you on real subjects, such as math, english, or history, etc, etc.

Videos games improve your hand-eye coordination.

=D

elyscape

2004-09-11 12:02:39 pm

Belated responose: I actually think that breaking apart (as an example) Metroid games is more, not less, difficult than calc or foreign language. With Calc, often I can't solve a problem simply because I can't remember a single postulate or something, and the rest is just busywork. With foreign language, I merely have trouble with remembering vocab, and the rest is busywork. With games, though, I actually think. Not only that, but I think hard. I have to use everything I know about the game to try to discover something new, which might not even exist, and that requires much thinking power. With Calc, I know that is some answer, even if that answer is "no solution", and I can usually find it, but my hand gets more of a workout than my brain. With language, I continually curse my memory, and that's that. With games, I think, "What if I did this? What if I did that?"
One thing that further goes to illustrate my point is this: computer programs exist that can do calculus or, to an extent, foreign language. Not one exists to play Metroid for you.

Quote from bartendorsparky:

Videos games improve your hand-eye coordination.

=D

Actually, one of the top neurosurgeons was interviewed (I think by his son for school, but I don't remember), and asked if he played video games during it. He said something to the effect of:
"Yes, and without them, I wouldn't be as good as I am. Neurosurgery uses a similar system, and playing video games made the transition easy and, since I was good at them, gave me skill for this."
This story is actually true, by the way; I didn't make it up.

[EDIT] Also, I did a filk (made new lyrics for a song) which kind of relates to this whole issue, in a way. It can be found here. [/EDIT]

Belated responose: I actually think that breaking apart (as an example) Metroid games is [i]more[/i], not less, difficult than calc or foreign language. With Calc, often I can't solve a problem simply because I can't remember a single postulate or something, and the rest is just busywork. With foreign language, I merely have trouble with remembering vocab, and the rest is busywork. With games, though, I actually [i]think[/i]. Not only that, but I think [b]hard[/b]. I have to use everything I know about the game to try to discover something new, which might not even exist, and that requires much thinking power. With Calc, I know that [i]is[/i] some answer, even if that answer is "no solution", and I can usually find it, but my hand gets more of a workout than my brain. With language, I continually curse my memory, and that's that. With games, I think, "What if I did this? What if I did that?"
One thing that further goes to illustrate my point is this: computer programs exist that can do calculus or, to an extent, foreign language. Not one exists to play Metroid for you.

[quote="bartendorsparky"]Videos games improve your hand-eye coordination.

=D[/quote]
Actually, one of the top neurosurgeons was interviewed (I think by his son for school, but I don't remember), and asked if he played video games during it. He said something to the effect of:
"Yes, and without them, I wouldn't be as good as I am. Neurosurgery uses a similar system, and playing video games made the transition easy and, since I was good at them, gave me skill for this."
This story is actually true, by the way; I didn't make it up.

[EDIT] Also, I did a filk (made new lyrics for a song) which kind of relates to this whole issue, in a way. It can be found [url=http://www.livejournal.com/users/elyscape/112938.html]here[/url]. [/EDIT]

Smokey

2004-09-12 02:03:04 pm

this topic is so damn stupid. typical skeleton, you my friend, are by far the most closed mind person I've ever seen. You really think every speed runner and generally every regular in this forum have nothing to do besides playing video games or doing speed runs? We have time to study, to hang out, to eat, to do productive things, to do hobbies; there's time for everything.

you really give the impression that we all do this for the living. No, this is only a hobby and it's not a waste of time if we like it, as most people have said here. I mean, I'm pretty sure everyone (including yourself) have a life outside of internet and video games.

sdkess

2004-09-13 08:24:53 pm

Here is an article I saved about the benefits of gaming for surgeons:

http://www.vortiginous.com/sdkess/docs/Excite%20News.pdf

I got a kick out of this article myself.