Various No Space Jump (NSJ) & 21% topic

2014-09-15 01:28:52 am

Your video contains most of the ideas I had/attempted before. I never thought to mess around with ruined nursery that's a nice idea.

itsPersonnal: I have tried using a beetle to give me an upwards boost when ghettoing off of the half pipe. I haven't had any luck yet but I haven't messed around with it enough yet. The war wasp idea is something that really needs to be looked into more closely.

Daryoshi

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2014-09-15 10:21:29 am

2014-09-15 10:21:13 am

loving low%

So, here's part 2/2. I'm not gonna investigate even more time into this bullshit. It's to no avail. Those bumps by those War Wasps were supposed to giove you quite an upwards momentum if done right and if you get lucky, right? Well, turns out this doesn't work out nearly as helpful as expected.

Keep in mind that those 4 little beetles on the other side of Main Plaza spawn ONLY after having gone that path (i.e. Missiles already needed). Additionally, iirc, the big beetle at the halfpipe spanws only after you have gotten Morph Ball so that is not viable either (it's to no avail apparently anyway). Well, that idea by itsPersonnal (looking for a way to get that other ME in Main Plaza) should be doomed as well since it's way to high to get with that TINY boost by those War Wasps...

On the VERY bright die, though, if a POTENTIAL timesaver turns out to be impossible, THAT IS GOOD FOR YOUR SANAITY (or better; what's left from it). :)
Seriously, that segment would have taken you a long time if it was possible to MAGICALLY get that ME early.

re: Ruined Nursery: I'm quite sure it's not possible since the ME is to close to the wall, making it impossible to get close enough to the ME w/o morphing (which is impossible at that point cuz no ME = no Morph Ball). I'd say with some "clipping morphing"/ luck it should be possible to get that item w/o bombs and w/o SJB, but NOT w/o Morph Ball...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znciYAw6-64

So, here's part 2/2. I'm not gonna investigate even more time into this bullshit. It's to no avail. Those bumps by those War Wasps were supposed to giove you quite an upwards momentum if done right and if you get lucky, right? Well, turns out this doesn't work out nearly as helpful as expected.

Keep in mind that those 4 little beetles on the other side of Main Plaza spawn ONLY after having gone that path (i.e. Missiles already needed). Additionally, iirc, the big beetle at the halfpipe spanws only after you have gotten Morph Ball so that is not viable either (it's to no avail apparently anyway). Well, that idea by itsPersonnal (looking for a way to get that other ME in Main Plaza) should be doomed as well since it's way to high to get with that TINY boost by those War Wasps...

On the VERY bright die, though, if a POTENTIAL timesaver turns out to be impossible, THAT IS GOOD FOR YOUR SANAITY (or better; what's left from it). :)
Seriously, that segment would have taken you a long time if it was possible to MAGICALLY get that ME early.

re: Ruined Nursery: I'm quite sure it's not possible since the ME is to close to the wall, making it impossible to get close enough to the ME w/o morphing (which is impossible at that point cuz no ME = no Morph Ball). I'd say with some "clipping morphing"/ luck it should be possible to get that item w/o bombs and w/o SJB, but NOT w/o Morph Ball...

Hazel

2014-09-15 10:54:21 am

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

you can collect the missile in Ruined Nursery from out of bounds by jumping on top of it. too bad we can't get out of bounds without SJ <_<

Hazel

2014-10-18 01:55:38 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

After looking around the room, I feel like Geo Thermal under 21% conditions should be possible inbounds and without floaty jump with TAS.
You could stand on the ring around the spider ball trick on spinner 3, and then scan dash off boost ball slot on spinner 1 to make it to the final bomb slot in the room (similar to the 22% strat). I imagine that you have enough height to morph perfectly and be in the bomb slot. Once that bomb slot is active, it looks completely possible to make it to the ice beam door. I haven't done it yet, but I've got close on console by just messing around with a couple ideas.

The only barrier that I can think of (and I know it's a big one) is getting to spinner 3. Spinners 1 and 2 aren't too hard to get on top of, but from there I can't come up with any way to clear the gap to the final spinner. I was thinking that maybe it could be possible to UBSJ somehow(?) if there's any spot on the walls that could be considered "ground", then touching it towards the end of a long bomb jump would allow you to BSJ in theory. The oods of that are probably very slim, but it's something that could be looked into. Also if we find a way to get the camera stuck somewhere on spinner 2, it might even be possible to 3BSJ dash to the final spinner, if there's something we can lock onto coming out of the instant unmorph?

Basically what I'm saying in this post is, I think that it's probably possible some way or another, and if anyone wants to help me find ways to get the camera stuck, or has any other ideas, I'm capable and and willing to TAS this room.

After looking around the room, I feel like Geo Thermal under 21% conditions should be possible inbounds and without floaty jump with TAS.
You could stand on the ring around the spider ball trick on spinner 3, and then scan dash off boost ball slot on spinner 1 to make it to the final bomb slot in the room (similar to the 22% strat). I imagine that you have enough height to morph perfectly and be in the bomb slot. Once that bomb slot is active, it looks completely possible to make it to the ice beam door. I haven't done it yet, but I've got close on console by just messing around with a couple ideas.

The only barrier that I can think of (and I know it's a big one) is getting to spinner 3. Spinners 1 and 2 aren't too hard to get on top of, but from there I can't come up with any way to clear the gap to the final spinner. I was thinking that maybe it could be possible to UBSJ somehow(?) if there's any spot on the walls that could be considered "ground", then touching it towards the end of a long bomb jump would allow you to BSJ in theory. The oods of that are probably very slim, but it's something that could be looked into. Also if we find a way to get the camera stuck somewhere on spinner 2, it might even be possible to 3BSJ dash to the final spinner, if there's something we can lock onto coming out of the instant unmorph?

Basically what I'm saying in this post is, I think that it's probably possible some way or another, and if anyone wants to help me find ways to get the camera stuck, or has any other ideas, I'm capable and and willing to TAS this room.

Daryoshi

2014-10-18 07:38:38 pm

loving low%

Quote:

it might even be possible to 3BSJ dash to the final spinner, if there's something we can lock onto coming out of the instant unmorph?

Are you telling that, in general, this is possible? Cool; didn't know that. But still, a 3BSJ + instant unmorph + dash doesn't provide as much height as a very good Rodeo Jump (jumping twice; with SJB in possession).

Quote:

I was thinking that maybe it could be possible to UBSJ somehow(?) if there's any spot on the walls that could be considered "ground", then touching it towards the end of a long bomb jump would allow you to BSJ in theory

You seem to have more knowledge about how BSJs work and you seem to know that under normal conditions a UBJ/HBJ + instant unmorph WON'T get you an extra jump (idk why exactly but there's a "definite" explanation for it). Well, testing where there could be a "GOOD" spot/ wall shouldn't take too long, nonetheless: Testing that idea with the dash directly to the bomb slot was something that came in my mind, too. I'd say proving/ disproving that to be TAS-possible FIRST is the way to go. :)

I will look into that fucking room again because of your post, but not until I have seen a video of that DBJ being done or/ and have done that DBJ myself.
EDIT: For others: I have been trying to get from spinner 1 (raised) to spinner 2 (unraised) W/O SJB in possession with just a regular DBJ for many hours now in total (obviosuly on Dolphin - for the most time, at least), starting to "waste" the first few hours onto that shit in April 2014!

[quote]it might even be possible to 3BSJ dash to the final spinner, if there's something we can lock onto coming out of the instant unmorph?[/quote] Are you telling that, in general, this is possible? Cool; didn't know that. But still, a 3BSJ + instant unmorph + dash doesn't provide as much height as a very good Rodeo Jump (jumping twice; with SJB in possession).

[quote]I was thinking that maybe it could be possible to UBSJ somehow(?) if there's any spot on the walls that could be considered "ground", then touching it towards the end of a long bomb jump would allow you to BSJ in theory[/quote]
You seem to have more knowledge about how BSJs work and you seem to know that under normal conditions a UBJ/HBJ + instant unmorph WON'T get you an extra jump (idk why exactly but there's a "definite" explanation for it). Well, testing where there could be a "GOOD" spot/ wall shouldn't take too long, nonetheless: Testing that idea with the dash directly to the bomb slot was something that came in my mind, too. I'd say proving/ disproving that to be TAS-possible FIRST is the way to go. :)

I will look into that fucking room again because of your post, but not until I have seen a video of that DBJ being done or/ and have done that DBJ myself.
EDIT: For others: I have been trying to get from spinner 1 (raised) to spinner 2 (unraised) W/O SJB in possession with just a regular DBJ for many hours now in total (obviosuly on Dolphin - for the most time, at least), starting to "waste" the first few hours onto that shit in April 2014!

TheMG2

2014-10-18 07:41:18 pm

The explanation is in the random research topic.

Hazel

2014-10-18 08:14:52 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

afaik dashes where you press B for 1 frame go just about as high (equally as high?) as normal jumps. And yes, you could dash out of a BSJ if you're able to lock onto something very quickly.

Simple explanation for BSJ: after you leave "ground" you have 21 frames where the game will let you jump.

Metroid177

2014-10-18 11:41:00 pm

In the 21% topic, someone claimed they made the dash into the final bomb slot. As for getting from spinner two to spinner three, I'll definitely look into these ideas, among others. I'm pretty sure it's already been confirmed (with video) you can make it to the ice beam door without sj or spider.

T3

2014-10-20 11:46:00 pm

daryoshi requested i post a video of this.

Daryoshi

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2014-10-21 12:02:04 pm

2014-10-21 01:19:39 am

loving low%

Now I finally now where to start that stupid DBJ. I can not remember ever having made it like that (from starting there plus doing the DBJ not frontal but sideways.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! Very Happy

EDIT: I HAVE JUST MADE IT!!! :D
It took me only 20 mins or so, without frame advancing, but with savestating to reload after each failed try. Starting from there DEFINETLY is the key to getting this DBJ done!!! Fyi: I tried it from frontal for like 10 times and then from starting at the same spot, but like you do in rthe video (sideways instead of frontal). So I switched after one minute or so and maybe I just happened to get it while doing it the same way s you but it FOR SOME REASON it looks like it is better to do very close Bomb Jumps while laddering them sideways... Since this sounds almost too weird to believe, I'm gonna try to do it again with laddering the DBJ in a frontal manner (incl. camera being behind me).
BUT FIRST, LET'S COLLECT PLASMA BEAM!!!

Thank you again and be sure to inform itsPersonnal if he doesn't happen to see this on his own, since he's wanted to see a video of this as well.

Now I finally now where to start that stupid DBJ. I can not remember ever having made it like that (from starting there plus doing the DBJ not frontal but sideways.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS! :grin:

EDIT: I HAVE JUST MADE IT!!! :D
It took me only 20 mins or so, without frame advancing, but with savestating to reload after each failed try. Starting from there DEFINETLY is the key to getting this DBJ done!!! Fyi: I tried it from frontal for like 10 times and then from starting at the same spot, but like you do in rthe video (sideways instead of frontal). So I switched after one minute or so and maybe I just happened to get it while doing it the same way s you but it FOR SOME REASON it looks like it is better to do very close Bomb Jumps while laddering them sideways... Since this sounds almost too weird to believe, I'm gonna try to do it again with laddering the DBJ in a frontal manner (incl. camera being behind me).
BUT FIRST, LET'S COLLECT PLASMA BEAM!!!

Thank you again and be sure to inform itsPersonnal if he doesn't happen to see this on his own, since he's wanted to see a video of this as well.

Metroid177

2014-11-30 03:10:06 am

Here's an okay segment 3 attempt I got. Does anyone have any different strat ideas or suggestions for improvement?

NOTE: I lost quite a bit of time in arboretum. I was supposed to dash and bunny hop straight to the door. So much for that <_<

Aruki

2014-11-30 03:30:50 am

Quote from T3:

daryoshi requested i post a video of this.

ok I'm a month late seeing this but omfg yes!! I remember pulling this off way way back in like.. geez, I don't even know, 2005 or 2006-ish, when this was considered impossible. Having been 12-13 years old at the time and therefore not exactly being the most respected person in the community back then, combined with not having any proof, I don't think anyone believed me at the time. :P But I know I did it, and it's really cool to finally have proof it's possible.

I think when I did it way back then, I rolled off the edge a bit before getting bounced up by bomb 1, so I might've gotten a little height boost from hitting the top of bomb 2, which might've been what allowed me to make it up. But I'm obviously not totally sure on that.

T3

2014-11-30 10:32:01 am

Quote from Metroid177:

Here's an okay segment 3 attempt I got. Does anyone have any different strat ideas or suggestions for improvement?

NOTE: I lost quite a bit of time in arboretum. I was supposed to dash and bunny hop straight to the door. So much for that <_<

that was pretty damn awesome. i was not expecting a lot of the stuff in there. good job!

Daryoshi

2014-11-30 12:13:39 pm

loving low%

Quote:

I think when I did it way back then, I rolled off the edge a bit before getting bounced up by bomb 1, so I might've gotten a little height boost from hitting the top of bomb 2, which might've been what allowed me to make it up. But I'm obviously not totally sure on that.

That's exactly what BabySheegoth/ Tomlube told me about it. So that makes 4 people who have done it. :-) Oh no, actually I have only done it on emulator (3 times and no frame advancing though, just one savestate in order not having to reload, grapple to platform +raise it (with boost) again. I might actually wanna look into getting Ice Beam door in Geo Core on a NSJ file with Boost, SPIDER (for last freaking part) and Grapple (for first freaking part aka not having to do a UBJ off a puddle nor a very weird R-dash onto the 1st platfrom). But we'll see.

--------

re: Segment 3; I wrote you on YT on your video. nice progress!

TheMG2

2015-01-10 03:55:41 pm

Daryoshi just got gth inbounds on console while streaming!

Daryoshi

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2015-01-10 04:15:02 pm

2015-01-10 04:11:23 pm

loving low%

WATCH THE VIDEO HERE:

PS: This didn't come out of nowhere. Basically, what came out of nowhere is that I found out how to do that DBJ way more consistently. Yeah I'm talking about that DBJ which used to be descibed as "almost impossible" by T3 himself (he only ever made it once ever (I guess he meant on console, in 21% and after that dash)).

I can give advice/ tips to anyone who is interested in looking into doing that him-/herself. M177: I think it's best if you watch the compilation of those DBJs (I made it over 20 times today and the first time I ever did it WAS today. I spent like 4-5 hrs in that room today. I'll upload a compilation with all the DBJs when I get to it, probably in some days or a week.

StefanvanDijke

2015-01-12 05:10:04 am

very very well done!!

Aruki

2015-01-13 02:59:04 pm

Damn, nice, didn't think there would be a consistent way to do that.

Daryoshi

2015-01-17 02:15:06 pm

loving low%

I needed a break from X-Ray Visor segment attempts

Read description and for more info on each step, watch Parts 1/2 and 2/2 of my recently uploaded YT videos where I did it on emulator

Daryoshi

2015-01-17 06:56:13 pm

loving low%

Why not post this here

Daryoshi

2015-01-18 06:58:22 am

loving low%

oh and yet another video:

Daryoshi

2015-01-25 06:51:13 am

loving low%

http://www.twitch.tv/daryoshi/c/5960261

What I wrote to T3's video of the DBJ in Geo Core:

Quote:

OMG Thank you so much even once more! With more or less your setup, I managed to get that DBJ on console THREE times withing just like half an hour! In fact, those 3 times I succeeded were in a set of ONLY FIVE continuous tries aka I did it three times out of five in those five tries! O_o
Sadly, though, those two enemies at the ground/ in the lava both dissapear as soon as you collected Grapple Beam. Hence, there is no dash point available anymore. :(
This means that one would have to do a(/nother) super hard DBJ to the last platform with the bomb slot. I don't know yet if that gap can even be cleared without a dash point so I'll look into that on dolphin just know.

T3

Edit history:

T3: 2015-01-25 07:56:15 am

T3: 2015-01-25 07:53:01 am

2015-01-25 07:50:43 am

there's a scan point on the first spinner under the raised platform. just jump back/forward to get the lock-on, then get up on the ledge on spinner 3 and dash to spinner 2.

you also need to reset your controller so that you can hold a lock-on indefinitely.

Daryoshi

2015-01-25 08:30:41 am

loving low%

oh wow i totally forgot about that indefinetly lock-on trick >_>
I had the idea to lock on but it was already fully scanned. stupid me.

also, as can be seen in your video, one can STILL use Grapple Beam to land on the now RAISED spinner 1. I didnt know about this until 20 minutes ago so I always reloaded Geo Core ^^

with that trick it should work just fine. even better than the puddle spore dash as done by bartendorsparky in his 22% NSJ Geo Core compilation video since that dash is very hard in terms of the angle you are dashing from. and still, i was already considering restarting and just getting boost ball and spider ball this time, so i can - along with skipping Grapple Beam - dash off one of those puddle spores, but thanks to this easy advice I can now do it. Thanks one more time. :)

Daryoshi

2015-01-25 11:14:13 am

loving low%