14% topic

MilesSMB

Edit history:

MilesSMB: 2010-07-22 09:18:26 am

MilesSMB: 2010-05-29 05:56:14 pm

2010-05-15 02:38:15 am

Recorded 14% run in 2:27

---

Hey, I have the low% record now. >_> <_<

Huge thanks to Paraxade, who I think was going to shoot me if I pestered him with another question.

Now, why haven't more people done this? The dash off the hive in TTA is a pain, but afterward there's nothing particularly difficult...

Thread title:

tomatobob

2010-05-15 02:56:08 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

because echoes is not fun to play in any context.

MilesSMB

2010-05-15 03:08:58 am

What an amazing response to a new user.

Oliver

2010-05-15 08:32:45 am

I would have loved to do one but my only attempt ended in TTA because of that dash that I've never been able to succeed (despite countless tries). If you have any tips, you're welcome.

DJGrenola

2010-05-15 08:50:25 am

Yeah, I'm afraid you kind of need a thick skin around these parts if you're going to play Echoes -- the trolls are everywhere.

Personally I've never been that interested in doing "unrunnable" low%s, i.e. ones requiring floating; I believe 14% currently requires the player to do that. However, since 14% has been done, it seems like it would be kind of pointless to produce a speed run of 15% or higher. For roughly how much time does this route require the player to float?

Jerry9

2010-05-15 12:18:38 pm

not evil,just hungry

As long as none of the wallcrawls require you to fall below the SW 'floor', all instances of floating can be replaced with aether jumps.

Aruki

2010-05-15 05:01:05 pm

Quote from Jerry9:

As long as none of the wallcrawls require you to fall below the SW 'floor', all instances of floating can be replaced with aether jumps.

One of the secret worlds you have to enter requires floating in-bounds. You can't replace that with aether jumping.

MilesSMB

Edit history:

MilesSMB: 2010-05-16 11:21:07 am

2010-05-15 10:30:29 pm

Quote from DJGrenola:

For roughly how much time does this route require the player to float?

It takes about 11 minutes to get to a point where you can fall through the nearby wall. Which is pretty bad, but not as bad as the original 29 minutes it took to float to the skywalk...

Edit: 14% Hard 5:00. It's nice how much easier all the tricks were to do a second time.

UchihaSasuke

2010-05-16 12:55:06 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

i never tried a low% because i suck at it. i die too easily without the additional energy and i don't know much about SWs to get through them fast (or even enter them easily)

i still enjoy watching them. the recent time cuts to the 14% run give me hope that eventually the time will be fast enough to be comparable to earlier low% runs in speed.

DJGrenola

2010-05-16 06:01:18 pm

So, where does this floating take place? Is it Sanc. Entrance?

MilesSMB

2010-05-16 06:06:26 pm

Yes (more specifically Transport to Temple Grounds).

bartendorsparky

2010-05-16 06:20:48 pm

always move fast

awesome paraxade and miles. what all is skipped? i'm thinking grapple, echo visor, cobalt translator, emerald translator, seeker missiles, super missiles, annihilator beam?

Aruki

2010-05-16 06:35:17 pm

Collected items are:

-Missile Launcher (1%)
-Violet Translator (2%)
-Morph Ball Bombs (3%)
-Amber Translator (4%)
-Space Jump Boots (5%)
-Dark Beam (6%)
-Light Beam (7%)
-Dark Suit (8%)
-Boost Ball (9%)
-Screw Attack (10%)
-Spider Ball (11%)
-Light Suit (12%)
-Power Bombs (13%)
-Dark Visor (14%)

Oliver

2010-05-18 07:05:21 am

I've always wondered, is the screw attack any useful in Chykka's fight ?
BTW Miles, I'd like to know your technique to reduce the floating down to 11 mins. And still, if anybody has any advice for the dash off the hive ...

DJGrenola

Edit history:

DJGrenola: 2010-05-18 04:20:51 pm

2010-05-18 04:16:02 pm

I can't remember 100% what I did when I made the hive dash video. IIRC you need to press R later than you normally would. It's something like dash, wait, move stick to down, wait, hold R. Of course by "wait" I'm talking about tenths of a second. It's been a while, so don't necessarily take my advice as gospel here. You may also need tjp's floaty effect, in which case you'll need to be standing right on the edge of the hive.

Part of me is tempted to take my 17% down from SDA now there's a demonstrated lower %, but it seems a bit daft since that run is the only place a lot of prime 2 things are documented.

tjp7154

2010-05-18 04:25:59 pm

Bananas GOOD, Kremlings BAD

Sometime in the near future I'm going to be going through MP2 again to actually finish the game. I'm planning on running MP2 for SDA's next marathon. I can't believe I haven't actually completed the game in a session since 2006. I've always been more interested in finding tricks.

MilesSMB

2010-05-19 03:44:25 am

14% Normal 2:57. I made a really stupid route mistake going from Lower to Upper Torvus that cost several minutes, and obviously the execution can be greatly improved (I spent less than two days on this), but it's nice to see the time go under 3 hours. :)

Quote from Oliver:

I've always wondered, is the screw attack any useful in Chykka's fight ?

You just bounce off Chykka Larva. You can hurt Chykka Adult, but it's a pain to actually hit him, so you're better off using the beams.

The Light Suit is far more useful; Chykka Adult doesn't attack unless you're on a platform, making the fight a joke.

Quote from Oliver:

BTW Miles, I'd like to know your technique to reduce the floating down to 11 mins.

There's a ring midway up the wall; the wall past that ring is no longer solid. So get above the ring, pull away from the rails, then curve around them through the wall. Remember that you'll start falling as soon as you're off the rails, so float a decent height above the ring first.

I also suggest jumping into the rails sideways, as this will give you a better view of the wall. Sometimes you stop floating after about 30 seconds when you do this, though.

Quote from Oliver:

And still, if anybody has any advice for the dash off the hive ...

Maybe it's just me, but I found that I needed to dash right for longer than I would've expected. I can make a video of this if you need it, as I don't know if DJGrenola's video is still around.

Quote from DJGrenola:

Part of me is tempted to take my 17% down from SDA now there's a demonstrated lower %, but it seems a bit daft since that run is the only place a lot of prime 2 things are documented.

Don't do it!

[img]http://www.vortiginous.com/miles/metroid/MP2-14p-2.57.jpg[/img]

14% Normal 2:57. I made a really stupid route mistake going from Lower to Upper Torvus that cost several minutes, and obviously the execution can be greatly improved (I spent less than two days on this), but it's nice to see the time go under 3 hours. :)

[quote="Oliver"]I've always wondered, is the screw attack any useful in Chykka's fight ?[/quote]

You just bounce off Chykka Larva. You can hurt Chykka Adult, but it's a pain to actually hit him, so you're better off using the beams.

The Light Suit is far more useful; Chykka Adult doesn't attack unless you're on a platform, making the fight a joke.

[quote="Oliver"]BTW Miles, I'd like to know your technique to reduce the floating down to 11 mins.[/quote]

There's a ring midway up the wall; the wall past that ring is no longer solid. So get above the ring, pull away from the rails, then curve around them through the wall. Remember that you'll start falling as soon as you're off the rails, so float a decent height above the ring first.

I also suggest jumping into the rails sideways, as this will give you a better view of the wall. Sometimes you stop floating after about 30 seconds when you do this, though.

[quote="Oliver"]And still, if anybody has any advice for the dash off the hive ...[/quote]

Maybe it's just me, but I found that I needed to dash right for longer than I would've expected. I can make a video of this if you need it, as I don't know if DJGrenola's video is still around.

[quote="DJGrenola"]Part of me is tempted to take my 17% down from SDA now there's a demonstrated lower %, but it seems a bit daft since that run is the only place a lot of prime 2 things are documented.[/quote]

Don't do it!

DJGrenola

Edit history:

DJGrenola: 2010-05-19 06:04:43 am

DJGrenola: 2010-05-19 06:03:26 am

DJGrenola: 2010-05-19 05:58:39 am

DJGrenola: 2010-05-19 05:57:06 am

2010-05-19 05:55:47 am

OK, now I'm paying full attention -- 2:57 is a great time. Such a shame about that damned float. (I will most likely split this topic if discussion about 14% continues. [Can I even do that with taiga?])

The hive dash video is on youtube, but it's probably not a tremendously helpful thing to watch:

Oliver

2010-05-19 07:13:51 am

Congrats for your 2:57. Amazing time. Since I doubt I will ever finish this run, I'd be glad to see a video of the run (not necessarily a speed run, but with the mistakes edited out to make it look like it). I love all these secret worlding.

Would've been good if the screw attack had done enough damage to make Chykka switch from dark phase to light phase. Thankfully I don't need to do all the 14% stuff to test SA on Chykka. I want to see how deep is the dark water with light suit on.

For that ring, I don't know what you're talking about since I use stuff to hold the stick and L so I can do something else while floating :). I'll try to pay attention at around 11 mins next time. I assume it's no longer solid on both sides of the rails, right?

About that dash, damn... if only I had made it once, I could try to remember what I had done. I've watched your video a certain number of times DJ, trying to lead the wasp at the exact same position. I wonder if the angle has to be so precise. Miles, do you also bend it backwards like DJ did ? Maybe another video could give me some hint, I don't know. I must admit also that I've never tried Grand Abyss (that could give me more assurance if I had). I guess you need floaty dash for both, but I suck at it :(.

Congrats for your 2:57. Amazing time. Since I doubt I will ever finish this run, I'd be glad to see a video of the run (not necessarily a speed run, but with the mistakes edited out to make it look like it). I love all these secret worlding.

Would've been good if the screw attack had done enough damage to make Chykka switch from dark phase to light phase. Thankfully I don't need to do all the 14% stuff to test SA on Chykka. I want to see how deep is the dark water with light suit on.

For that ring, I don't know what you're talking about since I use stuff to hold the stick and L so I can do something else while floating :). I'll try to pay attention at around 11 mins next time. I assume it's no longer solid on both sides of the rails, right?

About that dash, damn... if only I had made it once, I could try to remember what I had done. I've watched your video a certain number of times DJ, trying to lead the wasp at the exact same position. I wonder if the angle has to be so precise. Miles, do you also bend it backwards like DJ did ? Maybe another video could give me some hint, I don't know. I must admit also that I've never tried Grand Abyss (that could give me more assurance if I had). I guess you need floaty dash for both, but I suck at it :(.

UchihaSasuke

2010-05-19 01:28:56 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

great job on the sub 3 hours. next step is a recorded run hopefully.

DJGrenola

Edit history:

DJGrenola: 2010-05-19 03:15:00 pm

DJGrenola: 2010-05-19 03:13:47 pm

2010-05-19 03:13:12 pm

Quote from Oliver:

About that dash, damn... if only I had made it once, I could try to remember what I had done. I've watched your video a certain number of times DJ, trying to lead the wasp at the exact same position. I wonder if the angle has to be so precise.

Something tells me that the angle isn't as important as what you do with the controls, but I think I only succeeded the once, so I have to admit that I'm basing that assertion on intuition rather than data.

Quote:

I guess you need floaty dash for both, but I suck at it :(.

I'm not sure there's anything intrinsically more difficult about FD. I was doing FDs across Grand Abyss believing them to be optimal standard dashes (this was before tjp made the connection with FD and platform edges). I wasn't doing anything much different to get onto the robot, you just have to be right on the tip of the barrier.

Can you dash to the spinners in Vault? I maintain that if you can do that, you can do any dash in the game, including both GA and the wasp hive.

[quote="Oliver"]About that dash, damn... if only I had made it once, I could try to remember what I had done. I've watched your video a certain number of times DJ, trying to lead the wasp at the exact same position. I wonder if the angle has to be so precise.[/quote]

Something tells me that the angle isn't as important as what you do with the controls, but I think I only succeeded the once, so I have to admit that I'm basing that assertion on intuition rather than data.

[quote]I guess you need floaty dash for both, but I suck at it :(.[/quote]

I'm not sure there's anything intrinsically more difficult about FD. I was doing FDs across Grand Abyss believing them to be optimal standard dashes (this was before tjp made the connection with FD and platform edges). I wasn't doing anything much different to get onto the robot, you just have to be right on the tip of the barrier.

Can you dash to the spinners in Vault? I maintain that if you can do that, you can do any dash in the game, including both GA and the wasp hive.

nate

2010-05-19 08:23:45 pm

Quote from DJGrenola:

(I will most likely split this topic if discussion about 14% continues. [Can I even do that with taiga?])

hit post functions.

arkarian

2010-05-19 08:37:29 pm

red chamber dream

that probably needs to be more clear, so if you have any ideas let me know. kind of running out of space down there. :/

Oliver

2010-05-20 06:07:38 am

Quote from DJGrenola:

Quote:

I guess you need floaty dash for both, but I suck at it :(.

I'm not sure there's anything intrinsically more difficult about FD. I was doing FDs across Grand Abyss believing them to be optimal standard dashes (this was before tjp made the connection with FD and platform edges). I wasn't doing anything much different to get onto the robot, you just have to be right on the tip of the barrier.

Can you dash to the spinners in Vault? I maintain that if you can do that, you can do any dash in the game, including both GA and the wasp hive.

I didn't know that floaty dash is just a regular dash from a platform edge. Nice to learn.
When I say that I suck at it, I mean Vault too. It usually takes me 25 tries to make it (thanks to extra ETs). I'm just too stressed out.
I've been trying to practice the 2 FDs that TJP discovered in the first big room of Agon (sadly skipping the save room). And it's just as hard as hell. So, considering you have to make it on the first try in GA ... But don't worry, my dashes in MP1 were pretty bad for a long while and they are now almost optimal. I used to think that people nailing SJF each try were half-gods, and now I never miss a single one. I will eventually master those ones in Echoes someday.
Anyways, I'd really love to see a video of a 14% run.
On a side note, there's this recent topic where a guy claims to have secretized in Landing Site with IS. I know it's been tried really hard by many people, but if that was true, that would mean a substantial percentage drop for low% and a huge SB for any%. Kinda dreaming though.

[quote="DJGrenola"]
[quote]I guess you need floaty dash for both, but I suck at it :(.[/quote]

I'm not sure there's anything intrinsically more difficult about FD. I was doing FDs across Grand Abyss believing them to be optimal standard dashes (this was before tjp made the connection with FD and platform edges). I wasn't doing anything much different to get onto the robot, you just have to be right on the tip of the barrier.

Can you dash to the spinners in Vault? I maintain that if you can do that, you can do any dash in the game, including both GA and the wasp hive.[/quote]

I didn't know that floaty dash is just a regular dash from a platform edge. Nice to learn.
When I say that I suck at it, I mean Vault too. It usually takes me 25 tries to make it (thanks to extra ETs). I'm just too stressed out.
I've been trying to practice the 2 FDs that TJP discovered in the first big room of Agon (sadly skipping the save room). And it's just as hard as hell. So, considering you have to make it on the first try in GA ... But don't worry, my dashes in MP1 were pretty bad for a long while and they are now almost optimal. I used to think that people nailing SJF each try were half-gods, and now I never miss a single one. I will eventually master those ones in Echoes someday.
Anyways, I'd really love to see a video of a 14% run.
On a side note, there's this recent topic where a guy claims to have secretized in Landing Site with IS. I know it's been tried really hard by many people, but if that was true, that would mean a substantial percentage drop for low% and a huge SB for any%. Kinda dreaming though.

MilesSMB

2010-05-20 08:03:57 am

I do the dash differently from that. I dash straight right, then at about the highest point of the dash, I pull straight back (no R held). Your video looks like it ended up a lot higher than I usually do (I'm generally millimeters from the terminal fall trigger), though, so no idea if this is better.

I'm also working on a recorded 14% run. This is another rushed playthrough, so don't expect the most spectacular run ever, but it should at least serve as a decent 14% example.