The X-COM Topic

2012-06-12 07:19:00 pm

I say let the aliens Zerg me all they want though. Again, that's the true X-COM spirit right there, and I have that recent base assault to prove it. Granted, I was on Superhuman at the time, but you can still get overrun easily on Beginner in the earlier stages of the game at times.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2012-06-13 01:33:59 pm

2012-06-13 01:28:30 pm

So here's something new: Started a new game and got another Floater terror mission first thankfully. Except that was it. Just Floaters, no Reapers whatsoever. I don't think I've ever had that happen before, and all of the data would suggest that only Beginner and Experienced have a chance of spawning no terror units. Unless the game still hit the difficulty bug after I started a game and then abandoned it only to start over again without exiting out completely I have no idea what caused that to happen.

Edit: OK scratch that. Got the info wrong about terror units. They're ALWAYS supposed to show up no matter what difficulty you're on. I had the right number of Floaters for Superhuman though so now I'm even more confused.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2012-06-14 06:17:55 pm

2012-06-14 06:15:45 pm

This has got to be one of the weirdest games of X-COM I've played to date. Had a Sectoid terror mission without Cyberdiscs this time, plus there have been plenty of examples of the aliens having Superhuman stats but only showing up in numbers that are aligned with Beginner. February was practically barren of UFOs and then I'm doing fairly well in March (two terror missions to make up for missing one in Feb) only to get a negative rating and have South Africa convert on me.

The game's toying with me, I know it.

Edit: Oh yeah, there was also a mission I had against Floaters in a crashed large scout where THREE of them were hiding in that closet on the left side of the ship. Took down quite a few of my guys due to expecting only one of them to be in there and finishing the turn early only to have another pop out and snipe me.

tomatobob

2012-06-14 06:22:36 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

I don't know if the lack of terror units is good or bad, I mean not having Reapers is about as useful as having them but not havig Cyberdiscs? The saddest Terror Mission.

Prime Hunter

2012-06-14 06:29:49 pm

The thing is the number of Sectoids and Floaters felt like what should've been there for Superhuman, but only once did I have terror units out of the 3 terror missions I've done now. Sure it was only 3 Reapers but the other two had none at all and the numbers say that should never happen and I can't remember ever seeing it do that before.

Prime Hunter

2012-06-14 06:30:55 pm

Just watch, with my luck the first time I'm up against Snakemen things will be back to normal.

tomatobob

2012-06-14 06:42:35 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

All Snakemen with be Chryssies.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2012-06-15 09:25:03 am

2012-06-15 09:24:55 am

I called it. Very next terror mission at the end of April was full of them, which ended up forcing an abort after losing most of the squad. There were at least 3-4 Chryssalids chasing us down as we ran back to the Skyranger in the end and that was after killing about 1/2 a dozen of them up to that point. (One soldier and one civilian amongst those we took down, but still it was nuts.)

The game is quickly setting me up for a solid beat down pretty soon.

tomatobob

2012-06-15 05:05:42 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

The best thing about X-COM is that you can describe that clusterfuck of a mission and say it's just the set up for a beat down and be absolutely correct.

Prime Hunter

2012-08-24 05:55:09 pm

I just watched the new cinematic trailer and some videos describing aspects of both singleplayer and multiplayer. For some reason it never dawned on me until now that if the game is as good as we hope we could potentially square off against each other someday.

Here's one of the videos I found describing the mechanics of multiplayer:

I saw a bunch of people in the comments already dismissing multiplayer because it's going to be standalone matches and not a full campaign between two or more people. While that would certainly be interesting to play I can see how that might be difficult to pull off correctly here versus how it's done in something like Civ. Besides, we're still getting the opportunity to play against another human while being able to use the aliens. How is that a bad thing?

Personally I like the point system they're implementing. I see that alone offering up a ton of different teams and strategies.

tomatobob

2012-08-25 07:48:54 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

If I ever have a PC that can run the game and the game at the same time I'd totally be down for multiplayer.

Prime Hunter

2012-08-27 07:21:11 pm

The 2K developers ran a live stream earlier this afternoon showing off two missions and some of the base. Not sure if you care to watch it or not, but if you do the video is around 75 minutes long and starts about 4 minutes in.

The main thing I took away from it all was that the game felt like classic X-COM at times, which is awesome. Lots of carnage, destructible terrain everywhere, some close calls, and Cyberdiscs wrecking things left and right. Seriously, out of everything they showed that was the most impressive feature. They totally nailed Cyberdiscs in my opinion. Completely deadly and imposing whenever they showed up, and they were around pretty often in these two missions.

Sadly, I can't say the same about the Chryssalids. Don't know if it was because of how quickly they went down or the fact that the zombies didn't spawn new ones for whatever reason when they were killed, might have been the ammo type or something, but they were overshadowed by the Discs in my opinion. I'm hoping that's because they were only on normal difficulty.

A lot of smaller bits of info in there as well, such as only being able to recover alien weapons when you capture them. That changes things up considerably on its own if that's also the only way you can research them in the first place.

The 2K developers ran a live [url=http://www.twitch.tv/2k/b/330155062]stream[/url] earlier this afternoon showing off two missions and some of the base. Not sure if you care to watch it or not, but if you do the video is around 75 minutes long and starts about 4 minutes in.

The main thing I took away from it all was that the game felt like classic X-COM at times, which is awesome. Lots of carnage, destructible terrain everywhere, some close calls, and Cyberdiscs wrecking things left and right. Seriously, out of everything they showed that was the most impressive feature. They totally nailed Cyberdiscs in my opinion. Completely deadly and imposing whenever they showed up, and they were around pretty often in these two missions.

Sadly, I can't say the same about the Chryssalids. Don't know if it was because of how quickly they went down or the fact that the zombies didn't spawn new ones for whatever reason when they were killed, might have been the ammo type or something, but they were overshadowed by the Discs in my opinion. I'm hoping that's because they were only on normal difficulty.

A lot of smaller bits of info in there as well, such as only being able to recover alien weapons when you capture them. That changes things up considerably on its own if that's also the only way you can research them in the first place.

tomatobob

Edit history:

tomatobob: 2012-08-28 11:51:09 pm

2012-08-28 11:51:01 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Finally got around to the video and yeah that looks X-COM as hell.

I'm not too bothered by the Chryssalids, the scariest thing about them was mostly that were fast and they reproduced in mission, the zombies being reasonably tough while the Chryssies themselves are a bit weaker is a decent trade off I think. They mentioned that they would be tough on higher difficulties so there's always that.

The thing with Chryssies is that if you take it slow and play carefully they aren't actually that dangerous since they're melee only. They exist to punish you for mistakes more than anything. And there are a lot of mistakes to be made in a given terror mission.

Prime Hunter

2012-08-29 02:04:16 am

True. I've just had a lot of bad luck with them in recent encounters but that's mostly due to playing on Superhuman. Seeing as they haven't shown off the higher difficulties/classic I really shouldn't compare that to what the stream showed off. Still, those zombies do look like they could end up being a pain since other than Cyberdiscs I think they had the most HP out of anything shown off in the stream. Get enough of those running around and you're going to be in a lot of trouble, especially if they start transforming before you can get them all.

My best guess is that if you kill a zombie it won't transform but if you don't get it in a certain amount of turns you'll have another Chryssalid on your hands, rather than automatically turning into one once you kill the zombie. I can see how that would make them a little more balanced but still as deadly as ever if you aren't careful, which works just as well.

Guess I have the AI to blame for not showing them off like I was hoping for. Plus there's a comment I read somewhere that suggested the aliens have better things to do in a terror mission than take X-COM head on, which goes along with the Chryssalid retreating part way through the battle to make more zombies off in the shadows rather than jump in and attack like its partner. I kinda like that idea the more I think about it. Makes them smarter in the long run since X-COM can fight back and dwindle their numbers but civilians are just fresh meat to raise a larger zombie army.

True. I've just had a lot of bad luck with them in recent encounters but that's mostly due to playing on Superhuman. Seeing as they haven't shown off the higher difficulties/classic I really shouldn't compare that to what the stream showed off. Still, those zombies do look like they could end up being a pain since other than Cyberdiscs I think they had the most HP out of anything shown off in the stream. Get enough of those running around and you're going to be in a lot of trouble, especially if they start transforming before you can get them all.

My best guess is that if you kill a zombie it won't transform but if you don't get it in a certain amount of turns you'll have another Chryssalid on your hands, rather than automatically turning into one once you kill the zombie. I can see how that would make them a little more balanced but still as deadly as ever if you aren't careful, which works just as well.

Guess I have the AI to blame for not showing them off like I was hoping for. Plus there's a comment I read somewhere that suggested the aliens have better things to do in a terror mission than take X-COM head on, which goes along with the Chryssalid retreating part way through the battle to make more zombies off in the shadows rather than jump in and attack like its partner. I kinda like that idea the more I think about it. Makes them smarter in the long run since X-COM can fight back and dwindle their numbers but civilians are just fresh meat to raise a larger zombie army.

tomatobob

2012-08-29 02:20:30 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

And just imagine how it could have gone if the guy hadn't stumbled across the Chryssalids so early! There were a lot of civilians over there!

Prime Hunter

2012-08-31 06:44:44 pm

Some pretty interesting bits of info during today's stream from Pax. Showed off 2 multiplayer matches and then one showcasing both the PC UI and Impossible difficulty, which is the hardest even above Classic. Remember that first mission we saw from Monday's stream with the Sectoids and Mutons? The lead programmer played that one on Impossible and got completely decimated. Critical hits everywhere, wounds with 2-3 of the squad bleeding out, the Shiv was blown apart... lots of chaos and death on his side.

Even that small bit makes me excited to see what Classic will be like. Combined with most of the things I've seen and heard this last week alone, I think Firaxis is going to pull this off. I really do. And that says a lot given how many companies have made attempts over the years. It'll never replace the original of course, but that doesn't stop it from being a great game in its own right.

Can you tell I'm excited? laugh new

tomatobob

2012-08-31 07:39:15 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Man I wonder what Classic difficulty must be like, Impossible sounds like what I'd expect of Classic.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2012-08-31 07:59:23 pm

2012-08-31 07:58:59 pm

Classic is going to be somewhere between Normal and Impossible but yeah, those few minutes of Impossible made me think of some of my recent missions on Superhuman since I've been doing pretty poor for the most part. I loaded up the save I had from a few months back after seeing that last stream and I've been getting utterly destroyed by the AI. It almost feels like this mission could've been taken straight out of my game.

I fully plan on playing Classic for my first playthrough, not sure if I'll implement Ironman (one save file that autosaves on top of itself with NO chances to reload and correct any mistakes you make or deaths that occur) on top of that, but since I've essentially been playing that way anyway with the original game I might end up doing it even if it means I'll lose the game and have to start over. Jake and the other devs have suggested Classic/Ironman is what they consider to be the real game. If that's true and it more or less mirrors what happened on Impossible I have a feeling I'm going to really enjoy it since it should offer up plenty of tense moments and death all around. Kinda funny when I say it like that because I can't really think of any other game where this is a positive thing.

Classic is going to be somewhere between Normal and Impossible but yeah, those few minutes of Impossible made me think of some of my recent missions on Superhuman since I've been doing pretty poor for the most part. I loaded up the save I had from a few months back after seeing that last stream and I've been getting utterly destroyed by the AI. It almost feels like this mission could've been taken straight out of my game.

I fully plan on playing Classic for my first playthrough, not sure if I'll implement Ironman (one save file that autosaves on top of itself with NO chances to reload and correct any mistakes you make or deaths that occur) on top of that, but since I've essentially been playing that way anyway with the original game I might end up doing it even if it means I'll lose the game and have to start over. Jake and the other devs have suggested Classic/Ironman is what they consider to be the real game. If that's true and it more or less mirrors what happened on Impossible I have a feeling I'm going to really enjoy it since it should offer up plenty of tense moments and death all around. Kinda funny when I say it like that because I can't really think of any other game where this is a positive thing.

Prime Hunter

2012-09-02 04:23:32 pm

Wow the AI on Impossible seems really good from what I've seen. Things like the Cyberdisc weakening an assault soldier so that a Chryssalid can have a better chance to zombify him, Drones blasting civilians if a nearby Cyberdisc is at full HP, or the aliens moving into flanking positions or choosing targets based on which one seems like the biggest threat at the time. And they like to swarm too. Twice now I've seen 6+ aliens converge on a single soldier. Aliens using smart tactics on top of their increased stats and HP? Yikes.

tomatobob

2012-09-02 04:47:59 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Wait Chryssalids don't one shot dudes anymore? Sad

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2012-09-02 04:54:10 pm

2012-09-02 04:51:55 pm

You know, I'm not 100% sure. Every time they've attacked something it's been a one shot but I could swear they said that somewhere. Might be it gives them a better chance to hit or something. Haven't said either way if they have 100% chance to hit or not but during all of these steams I've seen this weekend Chryssalids have always hit and always taken down both civilians and X-COM alike no matter if it's on Normal of Impossible difficulty.

Prime Hunter

2012-09-02 04:54:25 pm

Might have just heard them wrong or something.

Prime Hunter

2012-09-08 07:23:12 pm

I forgot how much I hate enemy psionics and blaster bombs. I literally can't avoid either of them right now because Ethereals are showing up everywhere and if I try to assault an alien base I get bombed before I can do anything. Seriously, on TURN TWO I got blasted this last time I assaulted a Floater base! I'll be happy if I can finish researching Psi-Amps and be able to dish out some level of justice with them, because right now the game is really staring to become more frustrating than fun. While I've experienced frustrating moments with X-COM in the past this is probably the worst experience I've had with the game in years. Not the kind of thing I wanted to prepare myself for the new one next month.

tomatobob

2012-09-08 11:54:52 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

The only good defense I've found for Blaster Bombs is staying with the lower difficulties. Keeping guys spread out can reduce damage at least, but that doesn't do much for Psionics soooo. Ethereals are The Worst.

Prime Hunter

2012-09-12 07:59:29 am

You know... I don't know if I'll ever play on Superhuman again now that I've finally managed to defeat it, or if I do it's going to be a long time. Towards the later half of the game it started to get incredibly frustrating at points, specifically any time Psionics showed up. That's not what I want when I play X-COM, at least to the degree that I feel like nothing I did to prepare for Cydonia helped AT ALL against those blasted Ethereals. At least with Blaster Launchers I can sort of prepare for them and be able to neutralize their threat by spreading out and taking out anyone with a Launcher I run into. But Cydonia was absolute murder. The only thing I could've done differently is have more Psionics on the field to try and balance their numbers, but to be honest I don't think it would've helped me too much.

I'd been going with whatever the game threw at me the entire way, only reloading once because I ran into a bug with that base assault that spawned all of my guys outside the playable map for some reason. (I can deal with randomness, but come on, game! At least give me a chance to fail on my own!) I was lucky enough to even get to Mars in this playthrough. Between the number of Battleships they sent towards my main base and the fact that they got up 11 bases themselves (Lost 6 funding nations) I can't figure out how I survived the whole way.

But Cydonia on Superhuman is downright impossible if you're trying to beat it in one go, at least it was for me. I ended up reloading over a dozen times I think between the two parts of the mission in order to get through in the end, mostly because of Mind Control and Panicking. I even made an in-battle save once I finally got a decent assault team that could try and take the Brain's room in a fair fight, something else I don't typically do anymore.

Next time I think I'll save myself the headache and play on Veteran or something. I like X-COM to be challenging, sure, but not to the point where it stops being fun like this playthrough did at times. Glad I've finally defeated Superhuman though.

You know... I don't know if I'll ever play on Superhuman again now that I've finally managed to defeat it, or if I do it's going to be a [i]long[/i] time. Towards the later half of the game it started to get incredibly frustrating at points, specifically any time Psionics showed up. That's not what I want when I play X-COM, at least to the degree that I feel like [i]nothing[/i] I did to prepare for Cydonia helped AT ALL against those blasted Ethereals. At least with Blaster Launchers I can sort of prepare for them and be able to neutralize their threat by spreading out and taking out anyone with a Launcher I run into. But Cydonia was absolute murder. The only thing I could've done differently is have more Psionics on the field to try and balance their numbers, but to be honest I don't think it would've helped me too much.

I'd been going with whatever the game threw at me the entire way, only reloading once because I ran into a bug with that base assault that spawned all of my guys [i]outside[/i] the playable map for some reason. (I can deal with randomness, but come on, game! At least give me a chance to fail on my own!) I was lucky enough to even get to Mars in this playthrough. Between the number of Battleships they sent towards my main base and the fact that they got up 11 bases themselves (Lost 6 funding nations) I can't figure out how I survived the whole way.

But Cydonia on Superhuman is downright impossible if you're trying to beat it in one go, at least it was for me. I ended up reloading over a dozen times I think between the two parts of the mission in order to get through in the end, mostly because of Mind Control and Panicking. I even made an in-battle save once I finally got a decent assault team that could try and take the Brain's room in a fair fight, something else I don't typically do anymore.

Next time I think I'll save myself the headache and play on Veteran or something. I like X-COM to be challenging, sure, but not to the point where it stops being fun like this playthrough did at times. Glad I've finally defeated Superhuman though.