The Official Other M Sequence Breaking Thread

2010-09-11 04:41:06 pm

ANKOKU

did the whale eat you at the same place, or do you think it's just "time spent in the lava" that triggers the fish?

2010-09-11 04:59:24 pm

Even if you could cross the lava and avoid the monster, wouldn't you need ice beam to defeat the boss after you get Varia suit? There's that phase where you have to freeze it and run up its body to blast it.

sabata2

2010-09-11 05:04:06 pm

ANKOKU

For all we know it could be a scripted event:
"While (This_Attack_animation) {
If (hit for X damage) [I think you can freeze it with regular shots] {
Activate_Frozen_Vulnerability
}
}

Are there any other bosses that REQUIRE being frozen to damage? (I think you can also just keep missile-ing his eye without freezing him)

Opium

Edit history:

Opium: 2010-09-11 05:06:11 pm

2010-09-11 05:05:29 pm

Are we talking about what's happening DURING the whale lava fight, or the part where he keeps trying to eat you while you're crossing the lava platforms, or the part before that where he jumps out of the water and bites off a section of the tubular bridge that you're crossing?

sabata2

Edit history:

sabata2: 2010-09-11 05:06:26 pm

2010-09-11 05:06:15 pm

ANKOKU

During the first Lava boss fight (not the fish), and traversing the lake the first time you cross it (almost immediately after it bites the tube section)

TheMG2

2010-09-11 05:06:35 pm

Too many bosses require ice beam. The boss you fight after getting Varia Suit requires the ice beam. Nightmare 1 and maybe 2 also require Ice Beam. Finally, you can't kill the baby metroids without Ice Beam, so you'd be screwed at the last boss no matter what.

Is the room where you get the Ice Beam immediately after the room with huge lake? I remember going back into the huge lake room and there being Magdollites. Maybe if you leave the room and come back, the huge fish will be gone.

Opium

Edit history:

Opium: 2010-09-11 05:07:21 pm

2010-09-11 05:06:51 pm

Oh. Don't you just keep dodging everytime he tries to eat you?

TheMG2

Edit history:

TheMG2: 2010-09-11 05:09:58 pm

TheMG2: 2010-09-11 05:07:35 pm

2010-09-11 05:07:10 pm

Quote from Opium:

Oh. don't you just keep having to dodge everytime he tries to eat you?

We're trying to skip ice beam.
EDIT: However, the final boss requires Ice Beam.
EDIT 2: The plan is to go across the lava lake and skip the ice beam room. However, the Lava Whale kills you every time you try. I think the lava whale leaves when you go to the next room.

sabata2

Edit history:

sabata2: 2010-09-11 05:11:41 pm

2010-09-11 05:09:34 pm

ANKOKU

Quote from MarioGalaxy2433g5:

Too many bosses require ice beam. The boss you fight after getting Varia Suit requires the ice beam. Nightmare 1 and maybe 2 also require Ice Beam. Finally, you can't kill the baby metroids without Ice Beam, so you'd be screwed at the last boss no matter what.

Don't remember the one after Varia and I don't THINK Nightmare 1 requires it. I know Nightmare 2 doesn't.

Can the Metroids be damaged with missiles, or do they dodge it like the beams?

*edit*
Remember all the bosses may just be scripted events based on damage or attack animation. We won't know until we skip ice beam, IF we skip ice beam.

TheMG2

2010-09-11 05:14:01 pm

The giant lava dude who is between you and the main elevator. You have to freeze the gravity generator on Nightmare 1. Wasn't sure if the gravity still affected super missiles. I don't believe you can kill the metroids without ice beam.

IDK, it might... but does anybody remember if the room right after the one with the giant whale is the room with Ice Beam, or if there are any rooms between them? I remember magdollites appearing after heading back into the room.

sabata2

Edit history:

sabata2: 2010-09-11 05:18:38 pm

2010-09-11 05:18:27 pm

ANKOKU

Quote from MarioGalaxy2433g5:

The giant lava dude who is between you and the main elevator.

That's who SDAZ and I were discussing.

Quote from MarioGalaxy2433g5:

You have to freeze the gravity generator on Nightmare 1. Wasn't sure if the gravity still affected super missiles.

Pretty sure there's ways to damage him still. I know you can wall jump up the "corridors" that you normally require Grapple beam for while gravity is on.

Quote from MarioGalaxy2433g5:

I don't believe you can kill the metroids without ice beam.

All we need to do to check if they can, is attempt firing missiles at them while they aren't frozen.
Two bits, using Seeker missiles will hit atleast one per shot.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-11 05:44:43 pm

No, I think you definitely need the Ice Beam for the Metroids at the end. Other than in the Prime series when have normal Metroids ever been able to be defeated without it?

As far as what I've been talking about with the lava lake, it's after the first save point in Sector 3 when you're crossing the largest room in the sector for the first time. (Where you first start taking heat damage.) I'm too far past this point now to check for myself, but what would be the point of trying to cross the lake after getting the ice beam? All that would do is save a few minutes at best. From what I could tell, you get destroyed by the whale no matter where you are once you pass a certain threshold, because I'm pretty sure I was farther down the path before I tried to cross the lake the second time. (So it looks like he'll get you once you get within a certain distance of the other path.) I forget, can you go back out of that room where you get the ice beam as soon as you enter it, or is it another instance where the room locks on you until you defeat everything?

Thing is, because of how locked up this game is, we still don't know how the game handles giving you items. For all we know, we could be given the ice beam at the same time we get Varia, kinda like the way things can happen in the Prime trilogy at some points. (The Hazard Shield is given to you once you defeat Ridley, for instance, even if you skipped it beforehand.)

No, I think you definitely need the Ice Beam for the Metroids at the end. Other than in the Prime series when have normal Metroids ever been able to be defeated without it?

As far as what I've been talking about with the lava lake, it's after the first save point in Sector 3 when you're crossing the largest room in the sector for the first time. (Where you first start taking heat damage.) I'm too far past this point now to check for myself, but what would be the point of trying to cross the lake after getting the ice beam? All that would do is save a few minutes at best. From what I could tell, you get destroyed by the whale no matter where you are once you pass a certain threshold, because I'm pretty sure I was farther down the path before I tried to cross the lake the second time. (So it looks like he'll get you once you get within a certain distance of the other path.) I forget, can you go back out of that room where you get the ice beam as soon as you enter it, or is it another instance where the room locks on you until you defeat everything?

Thing is, because of how locked up this game is, we still don't know how the game handles giving you items. For all we know, we could be given the ice beam at the same time we get Varia, kinda like the way things can happen in the Prime trilogy at some points. (The Hazard Shield is given to you once you defeat Ridley, for instance, even if you skipped it beforehand.)

Quietus

2010-09-11 05:47:34 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Quote from Prime Hunter:

No, I think you definitely need the Ice Beam for the Metroids at the end. Other than in the Prime series when have normal Metroids ever been able to be defeated without it?

Super's could be Power Bombed.

sabata2

2010-09-11 05:50:13 pm

ANKOKU

I think the only reason you need Ice for the Metroids is because they move so damned fast and hit so damned hard.

If you can fire off a volley of Seekers into a crowd you'd probably get one or two of them.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-11 05:54:56 pm

Doh. Just as you mentioned it Quietus I remembered that fact. Probably slipped my mind because it's a common theme among the Metroid games to simply freeze and blast them like normal. Still, seeing as we don't get PBs until the end of the fight it doesn't matter for this specific discussion. But yeah, that is a good point. (Which could've been how Samus expected to take out Sector Zero all on her own, but that's for a different topic.)

Only way to find out for sure if Metroids can be harmed or not otherwise is to have someone test it. I'm still leaning towards it not happening, but you never know. (There's also the thought that collecting either the Wave or Plasma beams after give you the ice beam's freeze ability as well, since the beam abilities stack.)

Chozoid

2010-09-11 06:00:37 pm

I think the Wave beam will still freeze without the ice, since they didnt design a wave beam that DIDN'T freeze, and the beams are not independent of one another.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-11 06:13:05 pm

That's what I was trying to say at the end of my last post. If the game isn't designed to handle something being there that normally isn't, chances are it'll "auto-correct" to make sure you have everything you would upon collecting the next item in the sequence.

TheMG2

Edit history:

TheMG2: 2010-09-11 09:16:49 pm

2010-09-11 08:31:01 pm

You definitely need to freeze the metroids to kill them. They move so quick.

Quote from Paraxade:

There are codes available for the game already - for our purposes the most interesting ones are moon jump, walk through walls, and walk on air. I haven't tried breaking anything using them myself yet but I've been told that you have to have the room marked as your current objective or else you can't do anything there - eg, you can go to Ridley early but unless Adam's told you to go there, the room is empty. Pretty sucky if that's true :/

Ah, but don't Save Stations sometimes mark objectives?

Wait... if it is true... that means Adam won't be able to stop you from going into sector zero. :D

EDIT: ...The room where you get the Ice Beam is right after the lava lake after all. Dang it!

JaggerG

2010-09-12 05:18:40 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Can you spiderball along the automatic invisible ceiling like you can in Super Metroid? That could help in bypassing the lava lake and that ice place Paraxade needs shinesparking for.

KingBroly

2010-09-12 05:20:24 am

There is no spiderball though.

sabata2

2010-09-12 05:20:27 am

ANKOKU

Quote from JaggerG:

Can you spiderball along the automatic invisible ceiling like you can in Super Metroid? That could help in bypassing the lava lake and that ice place Paraxade needs shinesparking for.

Whatnow?
Spider Ball isn't in MOM.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-12 06:08:34 am

Or in Super for that matter.

Opium

2010-09-12 07:22:17 am

I smell troll poop.

TheMG2

2010-09-12 09:28:40 am

If you are going to smoke crack, you might as well share.

Quietus

2010-09-12 11:51:59 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

He's not talking about an actual spiderball. (I think)
He's talking about laying a constant run of bombs to keep you suspended along the invisible 'ceiling'.

Sorta like this: