The Official Other M Sequence Breaking Thread

2010-09-02 04:23:41 am

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

It remains to be seen, though, what effect skipping story events will have if you can pull something like that off. It might end up being for nothing since the right flags won't be triggered and the next event won't play.

Guess we'll see if the time comes though.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-02 04:31:29 am

Yeah, that alone is a big factor into whether or not anything will work out. Even if we get the event flags to trigger properly, would the game give us the new item ONLY or would it put us at the state we should be at normally when we arrive at said point? I'm assuming that if we manage to get to anywhere we haven't been before early things could theoretically work fine since they would only build those rooms with that one state in mind, right? It's those places we backtrack to in order to collect items that could cause so many problems.

All speculation, of course, since we don't have anything concrete to base this on yet.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-03 04:38:06 am

OK, so forget my idea of crossing the lava lake in Pyro. Forgot that you go across both sides while in the non-Varia sequence, and the area between them is where you get the Ice Beam. Wouldn't really save any time.

And as for the room in Bio where you have to grapple over the wall when following the Deleter, is that room open the first time you get into the Biosphere? I didn't think to check it when I ran through there in my Hard run.

Aruki

2010-09-03 10:51:59 am

It is. There's just no way over without grapple.

Aruki

2010-09-03 03:43:41 pm

don't think this is worthy of its own thread so... small sequence break. I managed to get across the broken bridge in Cryosphere without Shinespark:

Problem is very shortly you end up in this room, which again you need Shinespark for:

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3121/speedboosterroom.png

So it's a dead end for now, but not a bad start... at the very least there are three items back there that you can get early - an energy tank, an energy part, and a missile tank.[img][/img]

Toozin

2010-09-03 03:48:26 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

I have a feeling Paraxade is going to be the kip of Other M.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-03 04:35:14 pm

Oh geez. I didn't even know that pipe existed. Still, awesome find!

And I'm not surprised Toozin, given what he was able to do with Corruption.

tate

2010-09-03 11:54:40 pm

Nice paraxade, I was just trying to do that before i looked here.

Quote from Prime Hunter:

And I'm not surprised Toozin, given what he was able to do with Corruption.

And don't forget his legendary 21% feat!

TheGreenManalishi

Edit history:

TheGreenManalishi: 2010-09-04 12:17:27 pm

2010-09-04 12:17:09 pm

Quote from arkarian:

rotfl

@ thread title

Chozoid

2010-09-06 11:16:04 pm

The only thing I could think of would be to hack the game so that you could teleport through, say, the seeker door, and see if the cutscenes still happen. That way you'll know if SBs are possible.

Aruki

2010-09-06 11:20:09 pm

There are codes available for the game already - for our purposes the most interesting ones are moon jump, walk through walls, and walk on air. I haven't tried breaking anything using them myself yet but I've been told that you have to have the room marked as your current objective or else you can't do anything there - eg, you can go to Ridley early but unless Adam's told you to go there, the room is empty. Pretty sucky if that's true :/

Chozoid

2010-09-07 12:15:15 am

yeah

TheOthin

2010-09-07 03:23:30 pm

It's discouraging, but it sounds like it needs confirmation.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-10 11:38:20 pm

Well, I have updates on some things I tried to do earlier today when I started a speedrun on Normal. Don't know if either of them will pan out to anything, but doesn't hurt to post what I did in the event it gives someone else an idea.

1: I feel like I got really close to climbing over that wall in the Biosphere you normally need the grapple beam to get over. I found this good spot where I was able to wall-jump off the wall and fire off a charge beam to propel myself back towards the same wall. This made me hit higher than I had been when jumping off of it, and if I'm seeing things right I hit the ledge right around the green area that looks like it hangs lower than the rest of the ledge. It looks like I'd only need another half of Samus' height at most and I'd be on top of the ledge and be able to go over like you normally would.

Don't know where I'd be able to get more height from, but this method got me higher than simply bomb-jumping from the ground. Although I'd also like to mention that I found a spot that I nearly got stuck in on the wall closest to the camera. There's a vine that sort of follows the wall vertically, but makes a small platform about 1/3 or so up the wall that's just big enough for Samus to fit. I couldn't get a solid spot to stand on in that area, but it's something to keep in mind I guess.

2: Just for the fun of it and to see how much of a pain it actually is, I tried to cross the lava lake during my first journey through there beyond the save point in the Pyroshpere. At this point I have 2 energy tanks and by continuously jumping in and out of the lava and slowly making my way across the room, I made it most of the way to the other side. The thing is, I don't know if this was simply because I was nearly dead at the time, a bad coincidence, or a very evil design decision, but when I got to about 15 health the lava whale that normally chases you in this section jumped out of the lava and swallowed me whole.

This wouldn't save too much time and it would actually skip the Ice Beam if this trick ends up working somehow, but I plan on checking it out again anyway at least once or twice the next time I play the game. Even a small victory like this would be pretty important to me.

Just as a question though, does anyone know for sure if you'd be able to have 3 total energy tanks by this point in the game? Can you grab another one or find 4 energy parts by the time you get to that first save point in Sector 3? I ask because you'd have to be nearly perfect to get across the lake with only 2 if I was doing things correctly in my test.

Well, I have updates on some things I tried to do earlier today when I started a speedrun on Normal. Don't know if either of them will pan out to anything, but doesn't hurt to post what I did in the event it gives someone else an idea.

1: I feel like I got [i]really[/i] close to climbing over that wall in the Biosphere you normally need the grapple beam to get over. I found this good spot where I was able to wall-jump off the wall and fire off a charge beam to propel myself back towards the same wall. This made me hit higher than I had been when jumping off of it, and if I'm seeing things right I hit the ledge right around the green area that looks like it hangs lower than the rest of the ledge. It looks like I'd only need another half of Samus' height at most and I'd be on top of the ledge and be able to go over like you normally would.

Don't know where I'd be able to get more height from, but this method got me higher than simply bomb-jumping from the ground. Although I'd also like to mention that I found a spot that I nearly got stuck in on the wall closest to the camera. There's a vine that sort of follows the wall vertically, but makes a small platform about 1/3 or so up the wall that's just big enough for Samus to fit. I couldn't get a solid spot to stand on in that area, but it's something to keep in mind I guess.

2: Just for the fun of it and to see how much of a pain it actually is, I tried to cross the lava lake during my first journey through there beyond the save point in the Pyroshpere. At this point I have 2 energy tanks and by continuously jumping in and out of the lava and slowly making my way across the room, I made it most of the way to the other side. The thing is, I don't know if this was simply because I was nearly dead at the time, a bad coincidence, or a very evil design decision, but when I got to about 15 health the lava whale that normally chases you in this section jumped out of the lava and swallowed me whole.

This wouldn't save [i]too[/i] much time and it would actually skip the Ice Beam if this trick ends up working somehow, but I plan on checking it out again anyway at least once or twice the next time I play the game. Even a small victory like this would be pretty important to me.

Just as a question though, does anyone know for sure if you'd be able to have 3 total energy tanks by this point in the game? Can you grab another one or find 4 energy parts by the time you get to that first save point in Sector 3? I ask because you'd have to be nearly perfect to get across the lake with only 2 if I was doing things correctly in my test.

KingBroly

Edit history:

KingBroly: 2010-09-10 11:42:47 pm

2010-09-10 11:41:58 pm

I think Paraxade said that happened to him in another area, so they probably put it in there as a countermeasure against sequence breaking. I know there's one in that room on the far side.

Aruki

2010-09-11 12:11:49 am

Tried most of that in the Biosphere room, couldn't get over... Something that may work is using that ledge to start a bomb jump from but it's very tricky because it seems like there's a low ceiling over that slope that makes it hard to start jumping without getting pushed out and losing the bomb jump.

Also yeah, something similar happens in another area where you're supposed to fight the lava fish... I tried jumping across the lava instead of using the grapple points to try to skip fighting it. You can jump across but once you get close to the exit, it jumps out of the lava and immediately kills you. You don't even have to be in the lava to trigger it. :/ Also you can't use any of the grapple points to help because using any of them activates the fight, not just the first one. So yeah... trying to break this game feels like an exercise in frustration. Next time I play through I'm going to check whether that Biosphere trick is even plausible, because given the water tank (I found a solid strategy to get across without emptying it, but it doesn't work because the opposite side is covered by an invisible wall) and sector 2 (there's a giant invisible wall that prevents you from backtracking after fighting the machine boss), it wouldn't surprise me if that ledge is also blocked off by an invisible wall.

Tried most of that in the Biosphere room, couldn't get over... Something that may work is using that ledge to start a bomb jump from but it's very tricky because it seems like there's a low ceiling over that slope that makes it hard to start jumping without getting pushed out and losing the bomb jump.

Also yeah, something similar happens in another area where you're supposed to fight the lava fish... I tried jumping across the lava instead of using the grapple points to try to skip fighting it. You can jump across but once you get close to the exit, it jumps out of the lava and immediately kills you. You don't even have to be in the lava to trigger it. :/ Also you can't use any of the grapple points to help because using any of them activates the fight, not just the first one. So yeah... trying to break this game feels like an exercise in frustration. Next time I play through I'm going to check whether that Biosphere trick is even plausible, because given the water tank (I found a solid strategy to get across without emptying it, but it doesn't work because the opposite side is covered by an invisible wall) and sector 2 (there's a giant invisible wall that prevents you from backtracking after fighting the machine boss), it wouldn't surprise me if that ledge is also blocked off by an invisible wall.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-11 12:32:34 am

Yeah, I think things like that are more frustrating than simply not finding anything. Obvious blocks (like invisible walls, locked doors, and instant-death sequences) are direct shots at us, and Metroid isn't the only series that pulls them out whenever a developer doesn't want somebody to get somewhere early.

Aruki

Edit history:

Aruki: 2010-09-11 12:44:20 am

2010-09-11 12:44:09 am

yep. :/ I was playing through to try to find things and honestly that crap was so frustrating I didn't even finish. I have the save sitting right after Ridley and haven't touched the game for a few days.

Toozin

2010-09-11 02:39:10 am

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

I tried to warn you guys. :/

sabata2

2010-09-11 02:47:10 am

ANKOKU

Everyone here is stubborn.
But it's because of that stubbornness that they find these things.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-11 03:53:53 am

It doesn't hurt to try to find something, but yeah, I think most of us don't expect anything huge to turn up simply because of the way the Metroid series has been going with the last few titles. We got lucky with the few things we found in Corruption, but Other M is locked up tighter than ever and it would take nothing short of hacking the game to get around these kinds of road blocks.

horscht(i)

2010-09-11 07:47:19 am

defrag in progress

The game is linear. That makes it much easier for the designers to prevent sequence breaks. Plus, upgrades are unlocked by Adam`s permission so they exactly know which maneuvers and techniques you have at hand.

Turtle

2010-09-11 09:11:31 am

I like turtles.

Quote from KingBroly:

countermeasure against sequence breaking

No matter how many times I see this phrase, it always makes me sad.

TheMG2

2010-09-11 09:43:14 am

Wait, couldn't you just infinite bomb jump over the large lava lake?

Not that it would help, you need Ice Beam for the boss where you get varia suit.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-11 04:25:07 pm

Don't think it would matter if we were able to anyway.

The lava whale swallowed me again on a better attempt to cross the lake. Moved on from there since it seems like it'd be a waste of time to try and bypass an obstacle like that. (And it would only save 5 minutes max and skip the ice beam in the process.)