The Official Other M Sequence Breaking Thread

Edit history:

TheMG2: 2010-09-16 06:21:35 am

2010-09-16 06:20:22 am

It recognizes it. But you'd have to be close enough... And I doubt it will count... Besides, you still need wave beam to open the one morph ball hatch.

KingBroly

Edit history:

KingBroly: 2010-09-16 03:55:28 pm

2010-09-16 03:49:56 pm

But you'd have the wave beam at that point. Right now you have to go through the morph ball area, see the switch, come back, get Wave Beam, go back to that area again to shoot the switch. If you could go up the platforms after getting the Wave Beam and shoot the switch from below you'd save a fair amount of time.

TheMG2

2010-09-16 03:56:21 pm

Oh. But I am not sure the game will recognize the switch as a switch and not as a background element if you do it from that side.

KingBroly

2010-09-19 12:49:21 am

If you could lock onto it, perhaps. But again, those things are touchy.

TheMG2

2010-09-19 12:51:17 am

You don't have to lock onto it. I've unlocked ones without even going into third person.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-20 01:29:07 am

We've been talking about bypassing Seeker doors by using that rapid fire missile trick, and I think I've come close to doing so through an alternate method!

Rather than relying on firing missiles from a jumping position, which I've been having trouble with before I hit the ground, I've been simply firing one missile, quickly getting out of first person, and then immediately going back into it and firing another. It is MUCH quicker than the reload speed on the missiles when you're in first person normally, allowing you to fire a little slower than the Prime 1 rapid fire missiles if you're good at going back and forth between first and third person consistently.

As far as the seeker door goes, I've been able to get all five switches to be RED using this method, but the door remains shut. I'm guessing it'll only open if we could get all of the bars off the door at one time, because I've only been able to get about 3 max off screen at once. Once I finally reach that hallway on the way to the Queen where there's that 3 missile seeker door I'll try it there and see if I can open it, but I'm a long ways off from that right now.

We've been talking about bypassing Seeker doors by using that rapid fire missile trick, and I think I've come close to doing so through an alternate method!

Rather than relying on firing missiles from a jumping position, which I've been having trouble with before I hit the ground, I've been simply firing one missile, quickly getting out of first person, and then immediately going back into it and firing another. It is MUCH quicker than the reload speed on the missiles when you're in first person normally, allowing you to fire a little slower than the Prime 1 rapid fire missiles if you're good at going back and forth between first and third person consistently.

As far as the seeker door goes, I've been able to get all five switches to be RED using this method, but the door remains shut. I'm guessing it'll only open if we could get all of the bars off the door at one time, because I've only been able to get about 3 max off screen at once. Once I finally reach that hallway on the way to the Queen where there's that 3 missile seeker door I'll try it there and see if I can open it, but I'm a long ways off from that right now.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-20 07:06:49 pm

Good news everyone!

I blasted through that 3 seeker door on the way to the Queen WITHOUT seekers using the method I just posted above! Either it finally let me open it that way because I had seekers in tow and it removed a flag or something, or else it MAY be possible to get through the two 5 seeker doors without having the seeker missiles!

The method basically comes down to firing a missile, and then jerking the remote away from the screen and back in a short time span (I move it so that if the screen is 12, the remote is pointed somewhere between 2 or 3 when away from the screen.) so that the reload delay is nullified and the slowdown effect that happens in the first few seconds of first person view is going nearly the entire time. You've got to be really fast with it in order to do this, and it took me a while to get it down consistently. If you hold B when you jerk the remote it won't work since Samus will start turning that way in first person, so you also need to let go of the B button after locking on and firing a missile.

In any event, this rapid fire missile trick works on ordinary enemies too if you can do it right. I took out some of those sidehopper creatures on the way to Ridley using this method and there's definitely an improvement in how quick I can take them out. (I can fire the second missile at least when the thing is still in the air after being blasted from the first missile.)

Good news everyone!

I blasted through that 3 seeker door on the way to the Queen WITHOUT seekers using the method I just posted above! Either it finally let me open it that way because I had seekers in tow and it removed a flag or something, or else it MAY be possible to get through the two 5 seeker doors without having the seeker missiles!

The method basically comes down to firing a missile, and then jerking the remote away from the screen and back in a short time span (I move it so that if the screen is 12, the remote is pointed somewhere between 2 or 3 when away from the screen.) so that the reload delay is nullified and the slowdown effect that happens in the first few seconds of first person view is going nearly the entire time. You've got to be really fast with it in order to do this, and it took me a while to get it down consistently. If you hold B when you jerk the remote it won't work since Samus will start turning that way in first person, so you also need to let go of the B button after locking on and firing a missile.

In any event, this rapid fire missile trick works on ordinary enemies too if you can do it right. I took out some of those sidehopper creatures on the way to Ridley using this method and there's definitely an improvement in how quick I can take them out. (I can fire the second missile at least when the thing is still in the air after being blasted from the first missile.)

kesvalk

2010-09-20 10:42:46 pm

Indie Lover

now there we just need someone to see if you can fire 5 missiles before the door resets, and we need to see if the "reseting" isn't something just cosmetic...

but it's a start... entering in sector zero early, what can we get from this? i am almost sure you don't need space jump to get around, so you prolly can get as far as nightmare... but nightmare without supers and plasma will be a pain... if not impossible...

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2010-09-20 10:50:16 pm

2010-09-20 10:49:32 pm

I'm still not sure if we'd be able to get anywhere beyond that first gravity room without Space Jump. If the game believes you're entering the room when you should be and triggers the anti-gravity effect, there's probably not much we can do since we need at least SJ and Grapple, two items we don't get until much later when there's no way to get back to Sector 2 until we're supposed to be there. Because if we do find a way around the seeker door, we won't even have Speed Booster or Wave at that point as well unless we grab SB and double back this way.

To be honest, from a design standpoint I don't see why the gravity rooms wouldn't trigger properly if we get to them early, because they'd have to create an alternate state for each and every room otherwise. Why spend time doing that if you never expect a player to get somewhere they aren't supposed to be in a linear experience like this? Know what I mean?

It's just that I remember someone mentioning that they heard somebody with AR playing around and when they tried to get to Ridley early he simply wasn't there. We still don't have proof of this either way.

I'm still not sure if we'd be able to get anywhere beyond that first gravity room without Space Jump. If the game believes you're entering the room when you should be and triggers the anti-gravity effect, there's probably not much we can do since we need at least SJ and Grapple, two items we don't get until much later when there's no way to get back to Sector 2 until we're supposed to be there. Because if we do find a way around the seeker door, we won't even have Speed Booster or Wave at that point as well unless we grab SB and double back this way.

To be honest, from a design standpoint I don't see why the gravity rooms [i]wouldn't[/i] trigger properly if we get to them early, because they'd have to create an alternate state for each and every room otherwise. Why spend time doing that if you never expect a player to get somewhere they aren't supposed to be in a linear experience like this? Know what I mean?

It's just that I remember someone mentioning that they heard somebody with AR playing around and when they tried to get to Ridley early he simply wasn't there. We still don't have proof of this either way.

sabata2

2010-09-20 11:09:27 pm

ANKOKU

What I've heard for a faster method to swap first and third person views is use your other hand to simply cover the receiver on the WiiMote.

So to try and explain a bit further, close one eye, and then move one hand over the open eye, and then away, and then over, and then away, repeat.

I don't think you'll be able to get a faster POV change than that, so IF it's possible to do it at all then that would be the way.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-21 12:05:53 am

I'd have to go back there and try it out, but either way you'll need a lot of coordination in order to do it both as fast and as accurate as possible. When I tried to get past that door in Sector 2 I tried everything I could think of, including being as far away from the door as possible while still getting a lock-on, and the farthest I could get is about 3 bars off the door at once. I tried to see if firing them from a distance would let more missiles get to the door at the same time than from at close range, but at that range it's hard to get a lock-on to a target other than the one you're already firing at while also being fast enough, at least for me.

Granted, my way is pretty fast to switch between first and third person and back anyway, but perhaps that could make a small enough difference to matter by trying it the other way.

On a different note, how many rooms are there between getting the Ice Beam and getting back out to the lava lake? Because if you can go back out that door into the lake room after getting the Ice Beam, we could still theoretically try and cross the lake then and it could still save a few minutes depending on what's between the Ice Beam and the other doorway that leads to the room. Depends on if that lava whale is still roaming at that point.

I'd have to go back there and try it out, but either way you'll need a lot of coordination in order to do it both as fast and as accurate as possible. When I tried to get past that door in Sector 2 I tried everything I could think of, including being as far away from the door as possible while still getting a lock-on, and the farthest I could get is about 3 bars off the door at once. I tried to see if firing them from a distance would let more missiles get to the door at the same time than from at close range, but at that range it's hard to get a lock-on to a target other than the one you're already firing at while also being fast enough, at least for me.

Granted, my way is pretty fast to switch between first and third person and back anyway, but perhaps that could make a small enough difference to matter by trying it the other way.

On a different note, how many rooms are there between getting the Ice Beam and getting back out to the lava lake? Because if you can go back out that door into the lake room after getting the Ice Beam, we could still theoretically try and cross the lake then and it could still save a few minutes depending on what's between the Ice Beam and the other doorway that leads to the room. Depends on if that lava whale is still roaming at that point.

sabata2

2010-09-21 12:17:06 am

ANKOKU

I think it's 0 rooms from Lava Lake to Ice Beam and maybe 2 from Ice Beam to Lava Lake. In terms of First reaching sector 3.

I can't be sure though. I 100%d Sector 3 a couple days ago and didn't may THAT much attention.

Prime Hunter

2010-09-21 12:24:01 am

I just ran through there yesterday at the start of my run and even I can't remember much about the layout in that area of Sector 3. I know that as soon as you leave the lake for the first time is where you get the Ice Beam, but the part I have trouble remembering is how far it is from there along the path before you go back into the lake room, nor what obstacles, enemies, and puzzles are in those rooms. THAT is where I'm wondering if we can save a few minutes.

From the guide on IGN it looks like there's at least one wall jump shaft with a charge lock in it plus another room or two, as well as a save room. Can't remember if that room where you first see the sidehoppers (Desgeegas) can be bypassed or if you need to blast them to proceed, although they won't take long if you use the rapid-fire missile trick.

Still, next time I play I'll see what happens there.

Hitaka

2010-09-21 01:47:36 am

Phoenix

If I remember correctly...

1) Lava Lake

2) Ice Beam room

3) Straight corridor side-view with little fire guys (Novas?) everywhere

4) Straight corridor facing the camera with Desgeegas that pop out of the sand. Pretty sure you have to kill them all to unlock the door.

5) Room with two wall jump shafts. Up the first, down the second, second has a charge beam target to open a gate.

6) Nav room

7) Lava lake again

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2010-09-21 01:53:04 am

Prime Hunter: 2010-09-21 01:52:55 am

2010-09-21 01:52:07 am

Yeah, ok, so if we can skip that area it could theoretically save a minute or two depending on how good you are with taking out the Desgeegas and the wall jump areas. (It doesn't seem to matter how well I'm doing at any given time: I ALWAYS fall at least once in those wall jump shafts because of the enemy placement.) Might not be worth it in the end since you'd probably need at least 2 e-tanks to get across the lake, although from what I've seen here for other tricks/games saving even 20 seconds by not doing something ends up being a useful thing, so who knows?

Baron Dante

2010-09-21 04:19:55 am

Um, what Gravity room are you talking of? As far as I know, all rooms with Gravity always have the gravity on, just that Gravity Suit either negates it, or removed the Gravity effect on the room.

Also, you said you tried stuff on the Seeker Doors... You we're far away... Did you try walking towards the door while keeping lock and shooting the missile with your strategy? It's make it a bit "faster" for the hits. If you were able to get the 3 lock door open without Seekers, and Seekers don't "unlock" the unlocking sequence after collecting, then I'm confident 5 Seeker doors are openable without them. We may get the first sequence break for the game. (And likely the only?) If that can be pulled off, even if it doesn't have any use, atleast we skipped the Seekers, just to prove the designers still didn't think everything. ^_^

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2010-09-21 05:44:59 am

2010-09-21 05:43:38 am

That was my point, I just didn't word it well enough.

Chances are even if we bypass that seeker door leading towards Sector Zero, we won't get very far once we get to that first room where the gravity effects are in place because we'll need both the Space Jump and Grapple Beam to get through that segment. (Talking about the area from beyond the seeker door to where Nightmare is.) The only way I foresee us getting through there early is if for some reason the gravity effects don't trigger due to skipping over an event flag or something. I doubt that will happen because that would mean the designers would've had to have two versions of those rooms made and I don't see why they would have done that in the first place. But I just saw again earlier that somebody heard of a guy testing out things early with Action Replay (or the Wii equivalent) and got to Ridley early only to not have him appear. That makes me wonder what would happen if we get to those gravity altered rooms before we're supposed to and if it would change anything or not.

And as far as my attempts to get through the door itself, I tried standing right in front of it, I tried standing as far away as I could, and probably everything in between. I'm not 100% sure if the added distance does anything or not, but my original thought was that the added distance for the missiles to travel would allow me to hit shoot at more targets before the first one started moving off of the door. (Before the first missile I fired hit one of the locks, specifically.)

But yeah, that's one of the main driving motivations for me right now. Even if whatever we find doesn't do anything for us in the long run, ANYTHING we manage to do out of sequence is a victory in my book.

That was my point, I just didn't word it well enough.

Chances are even if we bypass that seeker door leading towards Sector Zero, we won't get very far once we get to that first room where the gravity effects are in place because we'll need both the Space Jump and Grapple Beam to get through that segment. (Talking about the area from beyond the seeker door to where Nightmare is.) The only way I foresee us getting through there early is if for some reason the gravity effects don't trigger due to skipping over an event flag or something. I doubt that will happen because that would mean the designers would've had to have two versions of those rooms made and I don't see why they would have done that in the first place. But I just saw again earlier that somebody heard of a guy testing out things early with Action Replay (or the Wii equivalent) and got to Ridley early only to not have him appear. That makes me wonder what would happen if we get to those gravity altered rooms before we're supposed to and if it would change anything or not.

And as far as my attempts to get through the door itself, I tried standing right in front of it, I tried standing as far away as I could, and probably everything in between. I'm not 100% sure if the added distance does anything or not, but my original thought was that the added distance for the missiles to travel would allow me to hit shoot at more targets before the first one started moving off of the door. (Before the first missile I fired hit one of the locks, specifically.)

But yeah, that's one of the main driving motivations for me right now. Even if whatever we find doesn't do anything for us in the long run, ANYTHING we manage to do out of sequence is a victory in my book.

Hitaka

2010-09-21 02:35:58 pm

Phoenix

Having tried opening the seeker door to Area Zero, I'm not particularly hopeful. Doing it at what seemed as fast as possible, if I do absolutely perfect I can barely get four locks off. I'm using the "cover the Wiimote" method, because it lets you keep your aim at the center of the screen. I'm interested to see if it would be possible in a TAS situation though.

MASTERLINKX

Edit history:

MASTERLINKX: 2010-09-21 10:26:02 pm

2010-09-21 03:34:08 pm

Sloppy

I'm the one that said you can't get to Ridley early.

About 2 weeks ago I was walking through doors and whatnot.
I went into the Ridley room early, nothing happened.

Baron Dante

2010-09-21 04:35:19 pm

So they are triple checking that anything won't be breaked? -.-

Could you possibly check the Gravity Rooms? I'm not hopeful at all, but...

But did you try walking towards the door while firing missiles? It'd make it possible to have very little more time to do the trick, since you would gain the rea the missile cowers...

MASTERLINKX

2010-09-21 05:12:22 pm

Sloppy

Oh yeah, I've already went through the gravity rooms, gravity is still active.

Hitaka

2010-09-21 05:19:15 pm

Phoenix

Well then without the Space Jump, I don't think opening the door early will lead to anything.

Baron Dante

2010-09-21 05:37:06 pm

Durn. Could we get an early Metroid Queen with it? :P

Well, I still want to see it work out, since then we have skipped something not supposed.

Aruki

2010-09-21 07:14:23 pm

Prime Hunter, have you tried spamming the home menu? Might help.

Opium

2010-09-22 02:11:15 am

You people are incredible.