The Maru Mari feedback thread

2004-02-16 09:40:15 pm

its not gonna buy us much time. so we are gonna have to stall alot and give alot o HBA progress updates to make up for it :P

Sesshoumaru

2004-02-25 10:20:58 pm

I know what you can do for Prime!

Prime is done from first person, right? Just take any old prime run, say radix's, and rip a frame from it. Clean up the edges, then slap some samus and houston sprites over the image.

For example, a frame of the fight with thardus. slap samus and hugh in there, boom, fighting thardus.

It'd be reasonably easy to get a shot of prime samus from the back, too, just find a scene where she's morphing or unmorphing and clean it up. Then recolor for houston.

I'm helping! I'm helping!

Toozin

2004-02-25 10:23:49 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

I still think that would create a bizzare juxtaposition. :?

Light of Day

2004-02-25 10:30:00 pm

It would just look... wrong. It would be very difficult to make it look as if the pasted-on images are actually part of the scene and not just, well, pasted on. Also, there is only a very limited selection of actions you see Samus do in Prime. Visual humor would be very difficult to pull off.

Sesshoumaru

2004-02-25 10:41:37 pm

Sigh, do I need to make a comic for you to show you how it'd be? I think I do.

Sesshoumaru

2004-02-25 11:43:34 pm

See how good it could look? And I did a real half-assed job cleaning up the samus sprites too. And once they're cleaned up once they're good forever.

I didn't bother putting dialogue in, or thinking of any.

Maybe something like

1st frame

Houston: Stand back Samus, I'll handle this one!

Samus: Okay.

2nd frame

Samus: ...

3rd frame

Samus: "well?"

Houston: "I didn't think you'd actually say yes"

Samus: "you tool"

Toozin

2004-02-25 11:47:03 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Now, I do like how that looks. But there may be a few issues with the practicality of it all...

But those can be worked around. What does the public think? Sess's method, or reworked sprites? Too bad you can't add a poll mid-thread.

nate

2004-02-25 11:55:40 pm

Quote from Toozin:

Sess's method, or reworked sprites?

i really like that sample shot. sess obviously knows what he's talking about.

it also has the additional advantage of existing at this time.

Toozin

2004-02-25 11:57:51 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Quote from njahnke:

it also has the additional advantage of existing at this time.

Who's to say we don't have other methods in the works?

...oh right, we did.

Yoshi348

2004-02-26 12:01:43 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from Toozin:

Quote from njahnke:

it also has the additional advantage of existing at this time.

Who's to say we don't have other methods in the works?

...oh right, we did.

Heh.

I still think I'd be nifty if you covered the whole Zero Mission now that you've started it. Houston suitless... heh.

Toozin

2004-02-26 12:29:29 am

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Quote from Yoshi348:

Quote from Toozin:

Quote from njahnke:

it also has the additional advantage of existing at this time.

Who's to say we don't have other methods in the works?

...oh right, we did.

Heh.

I still think I'd be nifty if you covered the whole Zero Mission now that you've started it. Houston suitless... heh.

Oh, we're seeing Zero Mission through, don't worry.

Light of Day

2004-02-26 12:40:21 am

Quote from Toozin:

Oh, we're seeing Zero Mission through, don't worry.

Will we see sections of Zero Mission that could be classed as spoilers? I don't think there's much more you can do otherwise.

Toozin

2004-02-26 12:47:51 am

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Oh, yeah, you're right.

That's the price you pay for reading Maru Mari. :P

Light of Day

2004-02-26 01:23:28 am

Quote from njahnke:

it also has the additional advantage of existing at this time.

Au contraire, Nate. I can make reworked sprites exist:

It's just a shame I can't make good reworked backgrounds exist. :P

Pushing aside my blatent bias towards using to using sprites, I have to admit Sess's method looks a lot better than I thought it would. I still have issues with the range of motion Samus and Houston can display with that method, as well as the degree to which they can interact with enemies, though. Overall, I'm still impressed by it.

Sesshoumaru

2004-02-26 01:43:47 am

Now don't take this the wrong way, but for about 5 minutes I wasn't sure what that was. Me tooz and nate were all throwing out guesses, and I think I won

Is it... Houston being burrowed into by scarabs?

As far as range of movement, I don't figure that being a problem because, well, metroid 1 has samus doing like 3 or 4 things, and tooz and hugh managed to make over 50 comics just reusing the 'run, stand, look up' sprites over and over. Between all the cutscenes I'm sure there's plenty of positions we can get for sammy. The main problems would come from the gun being in a lot of shots (I used a scene where radix was in ball form there, and just stuck hugh over the ball), but we can get creative I'm sure.

Light of Day

2004-02-26 02:46:27 am

Quote from Sesshoumaru:

Is it... Houston being burrowed into by scarabs?

Congratulations, we have ourselves a winner! It's a reprisal of the "Houston meets the most pathetic enemy in the game" joke. I'm guessing it's so hard to tell because I made it in about 5 minutes at around 5:30am (I'm an insomniac), not the ideal conditions for making a comic in.

Your method is starting to look more and more attractive to me. Aiming and shooting would still be difficult, though, but you could kind of work around that by doing some scenes as seen through Samus' eyes.

Ok, I'll admit it. I was being biased towards my method because I'd already made one sprite for it (scarab), half finished another (spider ball), and had plans for yet another (magmoor). I felt like I was being somewhat useful, and let that effect my judgement. I guess you've won me over, Sess.

skynes

2004-02-27 06:33:04 am

I'd love to see Super Metroid in it. Using SM Sprites that could be nicked from an emulator game. Have Kraid kill Mother Brain (again) and replace her with baby Kraid or something!

I could imagine Houston's response to collecting the Spazer beam...

Samus - YES! The Spazer beam!!

Houston - ... What you get to spasm over the floor or something?

Samus - *shoots Houston*

*Houston crashes through wall... Above is a hundred Skrees*

Houston - Oh crap...

Yoshi348

2004-02-27 08:27:05 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Such a rush... they'll get there. They're just going by plot time instead of release time. Even the whacked up Maru Mari plot isn't THAT weird.

skynes

2004-02-28 02:40:17 pm

I see wot u mean.

ShadowMagus

2004-02-28 03:08:56 pm

Plot time hmmm...

Houston meeting Baby Metroid... heh heh heh.

Toozin

2004-02-28 03:12:40 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

With all due respect, we don't need script help. We're asking for your opinion on the style. We do fine with the punchlines ourselves. :P

fractic

2004-02-28 03:18:32 pm

I think sprites are best. They don't completly suit prime but they definatly suit Maru Mari! (scarabs rock!)

Sesshoumaru

2004-02-28 03:39:11 pm

Surely you jest!

Look at that example!

And just imagine THREE DEE FONZIE

One could simply clean up some actual photos of the Fonz and stick them in. Eeeeeey, I'm hi res!

And leave us not forget how much work it is to create a sprite of, say, sheegoth from scratch, or from mutant 16-bit sprites totally unrelated, compared to just, taking a snapshot.

Light of Day

2004-02-28 04:28:39 pm

Quote from Sesshoumaru:

Look at that example!

That hurts. Crying or Very sad

Why Sess, oh why must you mock me with your words of hatred? Couldn't you bash it without telling us to look at it? Doing so brings pain, constant unending pain...

Now, instead of attempting to argue my point with a pathetic looking pile of rubbish like that in a post fuelled more by sleeplessness and arguing for the sake of arguing than an honest belief that I could outdo Sess' picture, let me attempt to make an unbiased comparison of the advantages and disadvantages of reworked sprites:

The advantages are numerous. For starters, many of the necessary sprites are already there. A lot of monsters in Prime are very similar to ones in Super, so little to no work has to be done to get these. There is also the advantage of being able to create you own scenes however you want them. Sprites are far more easy to work into the places you want them to be in, doing what you want them to do. This also means visual humor would be much harder to do with Sess's method. Say what you want, but unless I see proof otherwise, spliced together screenshots will not be able to produce a good-looking Houston getting stabbed by a shriekbat. If done right, it's much easier to make everything in this method look like it's meant to be there. Now, for it's disadvantages. Firstly, it doesn't looka as much like Prime. It would look like Super at best, and it's not Super. Secondly, and this is the clincher, it just isn't viable. Yeah, sure, a lot of teh sprites are alreadt there, and a lot would be easy to make (like Houston), but a lot would not. Take Omega Pirate and Metroid Prime. These are two highly important things in Prime, but nothing in any other Metroid game looks anything like them. Trying to get something at least recognisable as them, let alone something that looks good, would be a herculean task. And even something that tough pales in comparison to the horrors of the backgrounds. Sure, you could probably mess around with some of Norfair to get a passable Magmoor, but where then? You might be able to get a passable phazon mines, crashed frigate and tallon overworld too. But what about Phendrana? Nothing in any other Metroid looks even remotely like it. Even more so for the Chozo ruins. Plus, every area has it's own unique landmarks, things that stand out in the minds of Prime fans, and would as such be expected to make an appearance. While it's up to Toozin and Houston what they do and don't want to show, these areas would be impossible to recreate for a Super-style scene without monumental skill and effort. Finally, all the rooms in Prime are in 3d. A lot just wouldn't work in a 2d scene. No matter how hard you tried, you just wouldn't be able to recreate some of the rooms.

So yes, Sess's method isn't perfect, but it's the best we're going to get. Even with my "example" further up (God, I wish I didn't post that), it's the only method we have, really. In the end, the other method just coudln't happen.

[quote="Sesshoumaru"]Look at that example![/quote]
That hurts. :cry: Why Sess, oh why must you mock me with your words of hatred? Couldn't you bash it without telling us to look at it? Doing so brings pain, constant unending pain...

Now, instead of attempting to argue my point with a pathetic looking pile of rubbish like that in a post fuelled more by sleeplessness and arguing for the sake of arguing than an honest belief that I could outdo Sess' picture, let me attempt to make an unbiased comparison of the advantages and disadvantages of reworked sprites:

The advantages are numerous. For starters, many of the necessary sprites are already there. A lot of monsters in Prime are very similar to ones in Super, so little to no work has to be done to get these. There is also the advantage of being able to create you own scenes however you want them. Sprites are far more easy to work into the places you want them to be in, doing what you want them to do. This also means visual humor would be much harder to do with Sess's method. Say what you want, but unless I see proof otherwise, spliced together screenshots will not be able to produce a good-looking Houston getting stabbed by a shriekbat. If done right, it's much easier to make everything in this method look like it's meant to be there. Now, for it's disadvantages. Firstly, it doesn't looka as much like Prime. It would look like Super at best, and it's not Super. Secondly, and this is the clincher, it just isn't viable. Yeah, sure, a lot of teh sprites are alreadt there, and a lot would be easy to make (like Houston), but a lot would not. Take Omega Pirate and Metroid Prime. These are two highly important things in Prime, but nothing in any other Metroid game looks anything like them. Trying to get something at least recognisable as them, let alone something that looks good, would be a herculean task. And even something that tough pales in comparison to the horrors of the backgrounds. Sure, you could probably mess around with some of Norfair to get a passable Magmoor, but where then? You [i]might[/i] be able to get a passable phazon mines, crashed frigate and tallon overworld too. But what about Phendrana? Nothing in any other Metroid looks even remotely like it. Even more so for the Chozo ruins. Plus, every area has it's own unique landmarks, things that stand out in the minds of Prime fans, and would as such be expected to make an appearance. While it's up to Toozin and Houston what they do and don't want to show, these areas would be impossible to recreate for a Super-style scene without monumental skill and effort. Finally, all the rooms in Prime are in 3d. A lot just wouldn't work in a 2d scene. No matter how hard you tried, you just wouldn't be able to recreate some of the rooms.

So yes, Sess's method isn't perfect, but it's the best we're going to get. Even with my "example" further up (God, I wish I didn't post that), it's the only method we have, really. In the end, the other method just coudln't happen.

Toozin

2004-02-28 04:33:03 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Light of Day just voiced my concernes with both styles perfectly.