The Maru Mari feedback thread

butterflyboy1974

2008-08-08 11:13:53 pm

Kneel before the great & powerful chOZo

I am over it, everytime someone tries to get the last word though they say something shitty that I can't ignore.

arkarian

2008-08-08 11:54:17 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from butterflyboy1974:

Like the guy who tells the AIDS joke ends up getting AIDS, but lives long enough to watch his loved ones die from it first. Or the guy who talks about the dead babies ends up having a still-born child and never gets over it.

Wait, how is that justice? It's a joke, man: jokes should never be taken seriously by anyone, and if they offend, that's not the joke–teller's fault. It's a joke.

butterflyboy1974

2008-08-09 12:30:06 am

Kneel before the great & powerful chOZo

Quote from Arkarian:

Quote from butterflyboy1974:

Like the guy who tells the AIDS joke ends up getting AIDS, but lives long enough to watch his loved ones die from it first. Or the guy who talks about the dead babies ends up having a still-born child and never gets over it.

Wait, how is that justice? It's a joke, man: jokes should never be taken seriously by anyone, and if they offend, that's not the joke–teller's fault. It's a joke.

Like I said, I can't expect someone to give a shit about something that doesn't affect them personally. Maybe one day something bad will happen to you and not everything will be funny. Until/unless it does, you won't know what I'm talking about so just forget it.

tomatobob

2008-08-09 12:35:29 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

No. No one cares because it's a joke on the internet.

butterflyboy1974

2008-08-09 12:43:34 am

Kneel before the great & powerful chOZo

Quote from tomatobob:

No. No one cares because it's a joke on the internet.

You know that statement isn't true, otherwise this conversation wouldn't be happening. And since when is the internet a place where all rules of decency and respect for others cease to exist? I think alot of young people get that impression and it sucks. As far as nothing being the joke tellers fault, if someone told that joke in front of my friends and I we would probably beat the shit out of them - but it wouldn't be THEIR fault, right?
Look its no coincidence that usually the older you get the more serious you get, its because life happens to people.
But the point is moot. I found it offensive, you don't find it offensive. Nobody's right or wrong in that statement because it's really a matter of opinion. I said why I feel the way I feel, and so did you guys. Agree to disagree, end of issue. Everybody wins.

arkarian

2008-08-09 01:44:05 am

red chamber dream

Quote from butterflyboy1974:

Like I said, I can't expect someone to give a shit about something that doesn't affect them personally.

I know plenty of people with cancer who joke about it on a daily basis. It's almost necessary, man. And of course there are things I joke about that affect me personally— if you can't laugh at your own woes, that's pretty sad.

butterflyboy1974

2008-08-09 01:56:34 am

Kneel before the great & powerful chOZo

Quote from Arkarian:

Quote from butterflyboy1974:

Like I said, I can't expect someone to give a shit about something that doesn't affect them personally.

I know plenty of people with cancer who joke about it on a daily basis. It's almost necessary, man. And of course there are things I joke about that affect me personally— if you can't laugh at your own woes, that's pretty sad.

The difference between cancer and AIDS as far as people being offended is obvious: There's not a load of stigma and prejudice against people with cancer. People with cancer don't have people telling them that they deserve to die and go to hell. People with cancer aren't met with anything but sympathy and support from others. People with AIDS are met with hostility and ignorance. It's simple.

BioSpark

2008-08-09 02:01:19 am

Dude, people AIDS are not treated like that. I don't know where the hell you came up with that.

butterflyboy1974

2008-08-09 02:08:32 am

Kneel before the great & powerful chOZo

I don't know what you're basing that on. Either you have AIDS and for some reason have never been spit upon because of it, or you're just assuming it doesn't happen because you've never seen it. I've experienced these things FIRST HAND. When they told me I had AIDS 5 years ago, a 'volunteer worker' came into my hospital room in Mississippi and told me that I had nobody but myself to blame and may God have mercy on my soul. Then my mother told me that the rest of the family would not share the same room with me ever again, so if I came to visit it could only be in secret when her husband was out of town on business. Why else would I have become so irritated about the topic to begin with. I have to go to work even when I'm puking and shitting everywhere because the only way I can get a leave of absence is if I tell HR that I have AIDS, and everyone with this disease knows that if your employer finds out that you will be fired eventually for a fictitious reason, then your insurance is gone and you're fucked.

I don't know what you're basing that on.   Either you have AIDS and for some reason have never been spit upon because of it, or you're just assuming it doesn't happen because you've never seen it.   I've experienced these things FIRST HAND.  When they told me I had AIDS 5 years ago, a 'volunteer worker' came into my hospital room in Mississippi and told me that I had nobody but myself to blame and may God have mercy on my soul.  Then my mother told me that the rest of the family would not share the same room with me ever again, so if I came to visit it could only be in secret when her husband was out of town on business.  Why else would I have become so irritated about the topic to begin with.  I have to go to work even when I'm puking and shitting everywhere because the only way I can get a leave of absence is if I tell HR that I have AIDS, and everyone with this disease knows that if your employer finds out that you will be fired eventually for a fictitious reason, then your insurance is gone and you're fucked.

arkarian

2008-08-09 02:23:45 am

red chamber dream

Everyone has shit to deal with; you're not the only one. Sure, AIDS sucks, but it doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be joked about. Everything should be joked about, it's how people deal with stuff. Of course if that's not how you personally like to deal with your life, then that's absolutely fine, but I don't think it's fair to ask others to stop what they're doing just because you don't like it

JaggerG

2008-08-09 03:00:40 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Quote from Arkarian:

jokes should never be taken seriously by anyone, and if they offend, that's not the joke–teller's fault. It's a joke.

On the flip side, some jokes can carry a bit of truth, and sometimes "joke"-like insults can be primarily intended as insults. Also, some jokes disguised as near-insults can often be meant honestly to a degree. Offensive jokes can occasionally be telling someone something lightly so that they can get the message but still laugh it off. It depends on the person telling it, really. Sure, you might expect everyone to have thicker skin, but sometimes you have to realize, they just don't.

Also, I doubt it's so common that the older you get, the more serious you are. The more I've been experiencing the employed life, the more I've found that it isn't really that drastically different from school. The enjoyability of either is dependent on other employees' attitudes. Of course most businesses or employees are concerned about keeping their customers/partnerships/jobs, so they're careful about not telling offensive jokes, because you can't just tell someone "It's just a joke" and expect them to keep supporting your business/employment.

As for being an internet forum community, our job isn't to keep customers and appeal to the masses, it's to offer a place for people to discuss various aspects of metroid gaming. If they don't like a certain topic, they more than likely can avoid it. Our policies are more strictly enforced on the game-specific boards because of our unspoken sense of diplomacy, but this Maru Mari thread for example is a discussion of Maru Mari, a comic seemingly clearly not to be taken seriously.

Quote from butterflyboy1974:

How is it faulty logic? Angry people get bitter, sounds perfectly logical to me. And as far as harm towards humainty goes, I was only talking about harm coming to assholes in a poetic justice kind of way. Like the guy who tells the AIDS joke ends up getting AIDS, but lives long enough to watch his loved ones die from it first. Or the guy who talks about the dead babies ends up having a still-born child and never gets over it. You know, nice ways that God helps out to make the world a little more balanced.

I'm not saying it's faulty logic that an angry person is likely to get bitter, I'm saying an angry person seems to have faulty logic in thinking adding to overall pain is right. Poetic Justice can sometimes make a victim feel better, but it hardly ever ends once the victim thinks it's even.

And...if my baby died because I brought up dead babies humorously? If a man's arm is torn off in a freak accident and he tells a joke about it later, should his other arm be torn off? Is that "fair"? Does he have to take offense to the joke he told about himself and get revenge on himself? Is it a big deal to him that he told a one-armed joke? If you try to tell me that no one-armed man has ever told a one-armed joke, you clearly don't get out much, and you're telling me that anyone that suffers has no sense of humor for the rest of their life. This idea is ridiculous; totally unrealistic. If you have AIDS and take more offense to this joke than humor, then your insistence that anger is more important than entertainment is actually offensive to me. I respect your opinion enough not to joke to you about it, but I can't say I enjoy that comic any less.

As for your tragedy, the saddest part isn't the fact that you have AIDS, it's the rejection you've had. He's not saying "Samus you're a damned slut and I'm taking the ship and leaving you stranded here." If you think those of us that take it lightly are monsters, then perhaps you should consider those that judge you because of it. Is it Houston's fault that the hospital volunteer is a total douche and the rest of your family is apparently full of ignorant bastards? No, it is not. And for the record, no, I don't personally think less of you for your illness.

---

Hmm, this is looking to be a mildly productive debate (at least more than others I've seen here >_>)

[quote="Arkarian"]
jokes should [i]never[/i] be taken seriously by [i]anyone[/i], and if they offend, that's not the joke–teller's fault. It's a joke.
[/quote]
On the flip side, some jokes can carry a bit of truth, and sometimes "joke"-like insults can be primarily intended as insults. Also, some jokes disguised as near-insults can often be meant honestly to a degree. Offensive jokes can occasionally be telling someone something lightly so that they can get the message but still laugh it off. It depends on the person telling it, really. Sure, you might expect everyone to have thicker skin, but sometimes you have to realize, they just don't.

Also, I doubt it's so common that the older you get, the more serious you are. The more I've been experiencing the employed life, the more I've found that it isn't really that drastically different from school. The enjoyability of either is dependent on other employees' attitudes. Of course most businesses or employees are concerned about keeping their customers/partnerships/jobs, so they're careful about not telling offensive jokes, because you can't just tell someone "It's just a joke" and expect them to keep supporting your business/employment.

As for being an internet forum community, our job isn't to keep customers and appeal to the masses, it's to offer a place for people to discuss various aspects of metroid gaming. If they don't like a certain topic, they more than likely can avoid it. Our policies are more strictly enforced on the game-specific boards because of our unspoken sense of diplomacy, but this Maru Mari thread for example is a discussion of Maru Mari, a comic seemingly clearly not to be taken seriously.

[quote="butterflyboy1974"]
How is it faulty logic?  Angry people get bitter, sounds perfectly logical to me.  And as far as harm towards humainty goes, I was only talking about harm coming to assholes in a poetic justice kind of way.  Like the guy who tells the AIDS joke ends up getting AIDS, but lives long enough to watch his loved ones die from it first.  Or the guy who talks about the dead babies ends up having a still-born child and never gets over it.   You know, nice ways that God helps out to make the world a little more balanced.
[/quote]
I'm not saying it's faulty logic that an angry person is likely to get bitter, I'm saying an angry person seems to have faulty logic in thinking adding to overall pain is right. Poetic Justice can sometimes make a victim feel better, but it hardly ever ends once the victim thinks it's even.

And...if my baby died because I brought up dead babies humorously? If a man's arm is torn off in a freak accident and he tells a joke about it later, should his other arm be torn off? Is that "fair"? Does he have to take offense to the joke he told about himself and get revenge on himself? Is it a big deal to him that he told a one-armed joke? If you try to tell me that no one-armed man has ever told a one-armed joke, you clearly don't get out much, and you're telling me that anyone that suffers has no sense of humor for the rest of their life. This idea is ridiculous; totally unrealistic. If you have AIDS and take more offense to this joke than humor, then your insistence that anger is more important than entertainment is actually offensive to me. I respect your opinion enough not to joke to you about it, but I can't say I enjoy that comic any less.

As for your tragedy, the saddest part isn't the fact that you have AIDS, it's the rejection you've had. He's not saying "Samus you're a damned slut and I'm taking the ship and leaving you stranded here." If you think those of us that take it lightly are monsters, then perhaps you should consider those that judge you because of it. Is it Houston's fault that the hospital volunteer is a total douche and the rest of your family is apparently full of ignorant bastards? No, it is not. And for the record, no, I don't personally think less of you for your illness.

---

Hmm, this is looking to be a mildly productive debate (at least more than others I've seen here >_>)

BioSpark

2008-08-09 12:13:04 pm

Well put Jagger. Everyone I know with a sickness always jokes it off. They're just trying to keep a positive attitude. In other words, things like internet jokes don't get them down.

playerman1230

2008-08-25 09:01:25 pm

Hated by all

back on topic:

lemme guess, the strip's left to rot?

JaggerG

2008-08-25 09:19:55 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Indeed it has. I like to pretend Houston left just so he can focus more on HBA, but really he just plain left.

arkarian

2008-08-25 11:06:02 pm

red chamber dream

hahahahahaha. HBA.

Toozin

2008-12-13 03:41:32 am

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Alright, sorry for bringing up old and done topics, but I've been gone for awhile and I felt the need to comment on this whole AIDS thing.

First of all, no, I don't know anyone personally who has the disease. But I do know people with other chronic and life-shortening diseases. My father lost his long battle to hepititis b several years ago after a brief period of false hope provided by a liver transplant. Having diseases like these, or seeing people you care about suffer through them, is not funny in the least. Which is why it's importiant to find laughter wherever you can.

Having said that, I really think you're missing the context of the joke. If you don't find it funny, that's fine, not everything is funny to everyone. But to be offended? The focus of the strip is on Houston's stupidity and the childish sexualization of the word 'screw'. It's not taking a dig at the disease itself, just refrencing the fact that it's a lethal sexually transmitted disease, which is just simple truth and ignoring that fact won't make it untrue. The target here is, as it almost always is, how dumb Houston is, and not at all AIDS sufferers.

And now that I've said my peace and effectively destroyed any funny the strip had left, I will return to the shadows.

*woosh*

Alright, sorry for bringing up old and done topics, but I've been gone for awhile and I felt the need to comment on this whole AIDS thing.

First of all, no, I don't know anyone personally who has the disease. But I do know people with other chronic and life-shortening diseases. My father lost his long battle to hepititis b several years ago after a brief period of false hope provided by a liver transplant. Having diseases like these, or seeing people you care about suffer through them, is not funny in the least. Which is why it's importiant to find laughter wherever you can.

Having said that, I really think you're missing the context of the joke. If you don't find it funny, that's fine, not everything is funny to everyone. But to be offended? The focus of the strip is on Houston's stupidity and the childish sexualization of the word 'screw'. It's not taking a dig at the disease itself, just refrencing the fact that it's a lethal sexually transmitted disease, which is just simple truth and ignoring that fact won't make it untrue. The target here is, as it almost always is, how dumb Houston is, and not at all AIDS sufferers.

And now that I've said my peace and effectively destroyed any funny the strip had left, I will return to the shadows.

*woosh*

Opium

2008-12-13 01:55:49 pm

Would you tell a joke about someone who has cancer while you were in the presence of someone that you really don't know well who had cancer? It's one thing for someone to have humor that actually HAS the ailment, it's entirely different thing for someone who DOESN'T HAVE the disease to be joking about it in front of them.

arkarian

2008-12-13 03:25:40 pm

red chamber dream

No it's not. A joke's a joke. You have no way of knowing what people around you are going through, so if you don't want to risk offending someone, you shouldn't joke at all.

Toozin

2008-12-13 03:58:03 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Again, there's a big difference between telling a joke about cancer and mentioning cancer within a joke. Sure, if you were reciently diagnosed the mere mention of the word could upset you, but other than that if merely mentioning a disease you have is offensive to you, then I immagine a great many other things are too and you wouldn't be much fun at a party.

Opium

Edit history:

Opium: 2008-12-13 04:08:59 pm

2008-12-13 04:05:36 pm

Quote from starkarian:

No it's not. A joke's a joke. You have no way of knowing what people around you are going through, so if you don't want to risk offending someone, you shouldn't joke at all.

...or maybe you just shouldn't joke about things that really aren't funny. I guess the point is moot because people who haven't experienced something profoundly uncool really just have NO idea how much it sucks. They THINK they know how bad it sucks because they imagine what it would be like, and their egos tell them that they must be right based on that imagined idea. People like that will also never have any idea how much nerve it takes to tell someone who's dealing with a serious illness or situation to basically lighten up about it while other people get a chuckle over it. Unbelievable.

lol I guess Adam said it all at the end of fusion: 'Our experiences are the limits of our consciousness'

So basically if you haven't experienced AIDS, cancer, etc stop thinking that you know what its like because you really truly do not at all.

EDIT: and yes, anyone who thinks its ok to joke about things like that DOES think that they know what its like, otherwise how could they conclude that its OK to do so? I guess the alternative is that they have no soul.

[quote="starkarian"]
No it's not. A joke's a joke. You have no way of knowing what people around you are going through, so if you don't want to risk offending someone, you shouldn't joke at all.
[/quote]

...or maybe you just shouldn't joke about things that really aren't funny.   I guess the point is moot because people who haven't experienced something profoundly uncool really just have NO idea how much it sucks.  They THINK they know how bad it sucks because they imagine what it would be like, and their egos tell them that they must be right based on that imagined idea.  People like that will also never have any idea how much nerve it takes to tell someone who's dealing with a serious illness or situation to basically lighten up about it while other people get a chuckle over it.  Unbelievable.

lol I guess Adam said it all at the end of fusion:  'Our experiences are the limits of our consciousness'

So basically if you haven't experienced AIDS, cancer, etc stop thinking that you know what its like because you really truly do not at all.

EDIT:  and yes, anyone who thinks its ok to joke about things like that DOES think that they know what its like, otherwise how could they conclude that its OK to do so?  I guess the alternative is that they have no soul.

Toozin

2008-12-13 04:10:59 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

No one's pretending to be able to understand the pain of AIDS. As I said, the joke simply refrences that it is a lethal STD which is FACT and COMMON KNOWLEDGE and doen't require any empathic knowledge of the disease to understand and is, again, NOT EVEN THE TARGET OF THE JOKE.

Opium

2008-12-13 04:20:44 pm

Yes I understand the joke completely, and I understand that it doesn't directly make fun of AIDS or people with AIDS. The problem is that AIDS doesn't belong in a joke at all, period. Who the hell can laugh at a joke when AIDS is in the punchline, regardless of the context? I'll tell you who can: it's people who don't think it's a big deal. And why do they not think it's a big deal? Because they have imagined what it's like and are way way off. If they truly knew what it was about then they would not laugh at all. That's where I'm going with my logic.

Toozin

2008-12-13 04:27:40 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Then that just goes back to what I said about finding it not funny vs. being offended.

This is all clearly arguing for the sake of arguing. I've said all I have to say, so I'm done with this subject.

Opium

2008-12-13 04:29:28 pm

You're right, as I said before the point is moot.

tomatobob

2008-12-13 04:31:02 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from Opium:

EDIT: and yes, anyone who thinks its ok to joke about things like that DOES think that they know what its like, otherwise how could they conclude that its OK to do so? I guess the alternative is that they have no soul.

Unless the offensive quality of the joke is what they find funny rather than its actual content. And quite honestly, some people need to be offended.