the legend of korra

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2012-05-09 06:27:49 pm

2012-05-09 06:27:22 pm

Yeah one of the things my brother and I were discussing is that fact that Amon is technically using a form of bending to strip everyone else of their bending abilities.

1: Don't you think his followers would care about this, or at least notice it? He's kinda going against his own beliefs here if you take it at face value, except all they probably care about is that he's using his bending to stop all of the others from using theirs. One guy who is seemingly on their side and shares their beliefs is a lot better than hundreds/thousands of benders who are going to abuse their powers.

2: We're wondering if there's going to be the "I took it away from everyone else so I'm the only one left with it!" bit that other stories have done before. We wouldn't be surprised if that ends up happening, but in a way I'm hoping it doesn't because it would make things more interesting especially after considering everything you just mentioned Tomatobob.

arkarian

2012-05-09 06:32:38 pm

red chamber dream

yeah, i'm thinking amon must be able to energy bend (like aang did in sozin's comet), but nothing else. would be very weird, but it's the only explanation i can think of.

and huh, you're right that amon having all these followers doesn't really seem to hold up. but i'm sure there have been many cases of stuff like that going on in history. the vast majority of people like to have someone to follow.

Prime Hunter

2012-05-09 06:35:24 pm

That in itself raises a lot of questions if it really is energy bending he's doing. Where would he have learned how to do it if he's supposed to be a non-bender? Even Aang didn't know it existed until the last moments of Airbender from what I remember.

tomatobob

2012-05-09 06:38:25 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

I don't know that it's the same thing as what Aang did to Ozai. If we can get real speg-y for a bit, Amon doesn't use the same action to do it, I'll accept that the weird laser show could have been more for the audience than an an actual thing that happened. But it's possible it's a more severe/advanced chi blocking technique. We don't even know it it actually is permanent, could be that the benders he's used it on are just as convinced as everyone else and just don't bother to see if they can do it again later on. I don't know, Amon's a pretty interesting villain though.

Quote from arkarian:

btw i've been listening to talkin toons eps all day, thanks for the rec

No problem. I love voice actors.

Prime Hunter

2012-05-09 06:47:20 pm

True, but right now it's the only thing we have to go on since we've seen it before in the universe. I'm hoping they let us know before the end and it doesn't end up as another unanswered question. Seems pretty important not to deal with how he figured it out.

Of course, if Amon turns out to be a character we've seen before, which we've been wondering about as well since it would give the creators a good reason for him to wear the mask (audience would recognize him immediately without it even if the characters in-universe might not), his identity might just explain everything right there.

arkarian

2012-05-09 06:49:13 pm

red chamber dream

yeah, i suppose it could just be a thing that lasts for ten minutes or something ... have we seen anyone who has been without their powers for a long time? i forget.

tomatobob

2012-05-09 07:08:02 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Far as I know we've only seen the immediate effects of his ability. Just that one triad boss and I guess the couple other people he got to before the Bolin rescue.

Quote from arkarian:

and huh, you're right that amon having all these followers doesn't really seem to hold up.

I don't know about that. If you think about it, the every nation is defined by it's benders back when everyone was divided up like that they had kings and the like ostensibly working for the good of their people on the whole, not just the benders, because they were all Earth nation or Fire Nation and such. And then they had this big scary army bearing down on them all which would unite the people regardless of bender/non bender divisions.

But in Republic City none of that exists everyone's kind of mixed together and cultures start to influence each other more significantly than they would with the hard division of different countries. So what makes a person Earth Nation or Water Tribe at that point? What defines a Fire Nation citizen in Republic City? Bending. But not everyone can bend, regular people lose significance. The city council is at least seemingly made up of benders representing the interests of their people but "their people" really only means their benders since that's the only thing that could really define them. The police are bender only, earth bender only, and they have jurisdiction over everyone. The average person can't can't join the police force, don't have a council spot, they have no real voice. Add the bender gangs roaming around harassing people and suddenly this one guy promising to stand up to those asshole benders sounds like a really good deal.

Avatar showed that non benders can hang with a bender in a fight, but those people have typically been exceptional individuals, they are very good at what they do most people are not that. Most of them will get mowed down, if Amon gives them a means to fight back and some organization they don't have to be exceptional, they just have to plan their moves and act in groups where the few exceptional fighters can help out the average joe in their ranks. It's not far fetched for people who are just sick of benders fucking their shit up would join up with this mysterious guy if what he's offering is at least on paper better than what they've got now. In a way I actually wouldn't be surprised if Amon was actually boosting some of the gangs, they're his best argument against benders and a great recruiting force.

I mean I could be proven totally wrong in later episodes but that's my read on it as of right now.

Far as I know we've only seen the immediate effects of his ability. Just that one triad boss and I guess the couple other people he got to before the Bolin rescue.

[quote="arkarian"]and huh, you're right that amon having all these followers doesn't really seem to hold up.[/quote]
I don't know about that. If you think about it, the every nation is defined by it's benders back when everyone was divided up like that they had kings and the like ostensibly working for the good of their people on the whole, not just the benders, because they were all Earth nation or Fire Nation and such. And then they had this big scary army bearing down on them all which would unite the people regardless of bender/non bender divisions.

But in Republic City none of that exists everyone's kind of mixed together and cultures start to influence each other more significantly than they would with the hard division of different countries. So what makes a person Earth Nation or Water Tribe at that point? What defines a Fire Nation citizen in Republic City? Bending. But not everyone [i]can[/i] bend, regular people lose significance. The city council is at least seemingly made up of benders representing the interests of their people but "their people" really only means their benders since that's the only thing that could really define them. The police are bender only, [i]earth bender only[/i], and they have jurisdiction over everyone. The average person can't can't join the police force, don't have a council spot, they have no real voice. Add the bender gangs roaming around harassing people and suddenly this one guy promising to stand up to those asshole benders sounds like a really good deal.

Avatar showed that non benders [i]can[/i] hang with a bender in a fight, but those people have typically been exceptional individuals, they are [i]very good[/i] at what they do most people are not that. Most of them will get mowed down, if Amon gives them a means to fight back and some organization they don't have to be exceptional, they just have to plan their moves and act in groups where the few exceptional fighters can help out the average joe in their ranks. It's not far fetched for people who are just sick of benders fucking their shit up would join up with this mysterious guy if what he's offering is at least on paper better than what they've got now. In a way I actually wouldn't be surprised if Amon was actually boosting some of the gangs, they're his best argument against benders and a great recruiting force.

I mean I could be proven totally wrong in later episodes but that's my read on it as of right now.

arkarian

2012-05-09 07:12:57 pm

red chamber dream

i guess one thing i want to see more of is where this so-called oppression is taking place. benders being benders is one thing, but benders actually attacking non-benders is something totally different.

tomatobob

2012-05-09 07:14:22 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

lol actually the simpler way to look at it is that these people don't even know energy bending is even a thing, like two people aside from Aang have seen it. Tenzin and maybe the Chief are likely the only people in the city who would even know anything about it. These regular people only know what elemental bending looks like.

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2012-05-09 07:16:55 pm

2012-05-09 07:15:42 pm

red chamber dream

yeah, that's why it's so interesting. if amon really is energy bending, where/how did he learn it? did ozai somehow manage to teach it to someone?

arkarian

2012-05-09 07:16:06 pm

red chamber dream

i would love to see more ties to the original series like that

tomatobob

2012-05-09 07:29:50 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

I actually hope Amon is not connected to anyone from the original really or if he is only connected kind of tangentially. I think Korra can stand on its own and doesn't really need to rely heavily on the past series.

Quote from arkarian:

i guess one thing i want to see more of is where this so-called oppression is taking place. benders being benders is one thing, but benders actually attacking non-benders is something totally different.

We'll probably get more of that as it goes, but honestly just the gangs, if they are a big a problem in the city as they are made out to be, would be enough. We've seen a little bit of them. There's also the raid on that chi blocker school, bunch of benders just bust and and fuck the place up with no overt reason to do it. Chi blocking alone is a minor thing and can be just a simple self defense skill, while the council and the task force may have known or believed it to be associated with Amon, does anyone else? It can easily appear to an outsider as a power play by benders.

And I mean I'd be pretty upset is the entire police force was made of of dudes who had crazy wizard powers that most of the citizens including other people with crazy wizard powers could never have. Comes off like an organization 90% of the population could never join lording over everyone based on a random quirk of genetics. They might all be great dudes that never oppress anyone but it's easy to imagine people resenting them. There's not much to stop them if they do get violent.

I actually hope Amon is not connected to anyone from the original really or if he is only connected kind of tangentially. I think Korra can stand on its own and doesn't really need to rely heavily on the past series.
 
[quote="arkarian"]i guess one thing i want to see more of is where this so-called oppression is taking place. benders being benders is one thing, but benders actually attacking non-benders is something totally different.[/quote]
We'll probably get more of that as it goes, but honestly just the gangs, if they are a big a problem in the city as they are made out to be, would be enough. We've seen a little bit of them. There's also the raid on that chi blocker school, bunch of benders just bust and and fuck the place up with no overt reason to do it. Chi blocking alone is a minor thing and can be just a simple self defense skill, while the council and the task force may have known or believed it to be associated with Amon, does anyone else? It can easily appear to an outsider as a power play by benders.

And I mean I'd be pretty upset is the entire police force was made of of dudes who had crazy wizard powers that most of the citizens including other people with crazy wizard powers could never have. Comes off like an organization 90% of the population could never join lording over everyone based on a random quirk of genetics. They might all be great dudes that never oppress anyone but it's easy to imagine people resenting them. There's not much to stop them if they do get violent.

tomatobob

2012-05-09 07:30:29 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Need to stop spergin out about tv shows. I'm the worst.

Prime Hunter

2012-05-09 08:36:08 pm

I don't see how it's any different than anything else with quality writing and an established universe. Just means they're doing it right if we can break down things to this level of discussion, doesn't it?

You've got a point about Amon though. Part of why he's so interesting is because his side has a lot more credibility than you'd first expect. Looking at it from the view of a common person living in Republic City what good has come from the benders? They have all the power and there are certainly plenty of examples of them causing trouble for no apparent reason, such as that raid on the school as you mentioned. Plus you're probably right in that none of them would have a clue what he did when he was taking benders' powers away, only that he did it and it worked. Hadn't considered that angle, even after I had mentioned myself that Aang didn't even know it existed until Airbender ended.

One of the things I always look for in a well written antagonist/enemy is that you can understand their motivations and that there is some credibility behind what they are trying to accomplish because of them. There's always exceptions to this of course (The Joker being the most obvious one I can think of) but it certainly helps if you can see both sides of the conflict and realize there's weight behind each of them. I'd say so far Amon fits that description based on what we know of him and what his goals are.

I don't see how it's any different than anything else with quality writing and an established universe. Just means they're doing it right if we can break down things to this level of discussion, doesn't it?

You've got a point about Amon though. Part of why he's so interesting is because his side has a lot more credibility than you'd first expect. Looking at it from the view of a common person living in Republic City what good has come from the benders? They have all the power and there are certainly plenty of examples of them causing trouble for no apparent reason, such as that raid on the school as you mentioned. Plus you're probably right in that none of them would have a clue what he did when he was taking benders' powers away, only that he did it and it worked. Hadn't considered that angle, even after I had mentioned myself that Aang didn't even know it existed until Airbender ended.

One of the things I always look for in a well written antagonist/enemy is that you can understand their motivations and that there is some credibility behind what they are trying to accomplish because of them. There's always exceptions to this of course (The Joker being the most obvious one I can think of) but it certainly helps if you can see both sides of the conflict and realize there's weight behind each of them. I'd say so far Amon fits that description based on what we know of him and what his goals are.

arkarian

2012-05-09 08:41:29 pm

red chamber dream

i think there's two extremes: you can either portray a deep antagonist with all kinds of history and motivation, or you can just portray pure evil (the joker, anton chigurh in no country for old men). it's when you don't go enough in either direction that you have a lame bad guy.

and i dunno, i would like to see at least a little more ties to the original series. i like when things feel like part of a bigger universe.

tomatobob

2012-05-09 08:51:49 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

My issue I guess is with sequels over connecting themselves to the predecessor I guess like it's one thing to sort of tie it all into a bigger universe but it can get to a point where it's like, might as well have just continued from where the last one stopped instead of making a "new" thing. Best to avoid that and make it it's own story in the same universe, the world's bigger than just Team Avatar after all.

arkarian

2012-05-09 08:53:01 pm

red chamber dream

yeah i'm with you there. i still think there's way more to amon than we've seen though, so definitely looking forward to seeing where they take it.

tomatobob

2012-05-09 08:55:47 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Oh absolutely, no reason to believe we've gotten all we're going to get out of him. I mean if it turned out Aang or someone associated with him ended up setting him down this road I wouldn't be upset or anything.

Quote from Prime Hunter:

One of the things I always look for in a well written antagonist/enemy is that you can understand their motivations and that there is some credibility behind what they are trying to accomplish because of them.

Well there's a reason Heart of Ice from Batman the Animated Series won an Emmy! I became a huge fan of Mr Freeze based on that one episode.

arkarian

2012-05-12 11:07:02 am

red chamber dream

<33 lin

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2012-05-12 11:42:26 am

2012-05-12 11:38:26 am

red chamber dream

ok, so best episode ever? yep. that felt like a season 2 avatar episode in terms of action + plot. the fight scene was huge for such an early ep! shit is getting real and i don't think tenzin is gonna be able to handle it. luckily, lin + korra = bitchin.

- lin and tenzin are cute. hopefully we'll see some more drama with them.
- anyone who didn't like the music in this one is nuts
- my only thought when korra and the gang were about to be electrocuted in the water was "aang would have just protected them instantly in an air bubble"
- do guns exist in this universe? don't think i've seen one, but they sure would have helped against amon.

tomatobob

2012-05-13 03:18:36 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Ok yeah that owned. The fight at the end was amazing and Lin is a boss, was cool to finally see what metal benders can really do. What they do is become Spider-Man. Best benders.

Quote from arkarian:

- do guns exist in this universe? don't think i've seen one, but they sure would have helped against amon.

I doubt the creative team would go for the goofy laser guns hat Nick would no doubt force on them so probably not. Also having guns would really help Amon so it's probably best for Korra and friends that they don't exist.

arkarian

2012-05-13 10:51:34 am

red chamber dream

yeah, you're right. i forgot that they're probably not allowed to show guns lol.

so, who do yall think amon is? somehow, i definitely don't think he's "just" some guy calling himself amon. i think he's a character we already know or are going to meet. after reading up on all the new chars on the avatar wiki, my guess is it's bumi (aang's son). we haven't met him yet, but according to aang's family tree (possible spoiler), he's a non-bender and it would give tenzin some more plot points (fighting his brother? oh no!!).

one theory i saw on the interbutts is that amon = aang. no way that's true imo, but it's fun to think about. maybe he removed his own bending powers (except energybending) and passed them along to korra without actually dying. it's interesting, but it would be totally lame, and from the way tenzin talked about aang's death, i'm sure he saw the body. still, fun to ponder ...

yeah, you're right. i forgot that they're probably not allowed to show guns lol.

so, who do yall think amon is? somehow, i definitely don't think he's "just" some guy calling himself amon. i think he's a character we already know or are going to meet. after reading up on all the new chars on the avatar wiki, my guess is it's bumi (aang's son). we haven't met him yet, but according to [url=http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/30500000/Family-tree-avatar-the-legend-of-korra-30544925-1023-729.jpg]aang's family tree[/url] (possible spoiler), he's a non-bender and it would give tenzin some more plot points (fighting his brother? oh no!!).

one theory i saw on the interbutts is that amon = aang. no way that's true imo, but it's fun to think about. maybe he removed his own bending powers (except energybending) and passed them along to korra without actually dying. it's interesting, but it would be totally lame, and from the way tenzin talked about aang's death, i'm sure he saw the body. still, fun to ponder ...

Idkbutlike2

2012-05-13 01:23:54 pm

lol fan plot theories.

arkarian

2012-05-13 01:52:27 pm

red chamber dream

half the fun of watching a show as it airs is speculation. that's why i made this thread lol

Idkbutlike2

2012-05-13 02:24:17 pm

I prefer reaction and analysis.