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cjsnow1: 2012-06-05 05:36:53 pm
Mmmmmm... Honey Roasted Metroids
Can I get help on navigating the Hive Access Tunnel SW? I got up to the door and couldn't get Hive Transport Area to load. Then, after jumping on the door trying to get the room to load I fell off and dropped a fuckton. Do I just float back up (long time I'm sure)? Or is there a way I can jump back up?

EDIT: I got it. What are the advantages to not losing your items?
my umbrella goes directly to Bankai
Quote from cjsnow1:
EDIT: I got it. What are the advantages to not losing your items?


a lot. you can skip several minibosses and get to several areas way earlier and out of order. if you have experience with the game, the possibilities are easier to see.
Mmmmmm... Honey Roasted Metroids
Quote from UchihaSasuke:
Quote from cjsnow1:
EDIT: I got it. What are the advantages to not losing your items?


a lot. you can skip several minibosses and get to several areas way earlier and out of order. if you have experience with the game, the possibilities are easier to see.


Right now I've been slaving my ass over trying to get the Temple Assembly Site Early Powerbomb but I can't get on top of the door frame. I can get Dynamo Chamber to load but I'm always below the room. I try to wallcrawl and keep falling down over and over. Is there an easier way to do this?
Well... Aether jumping MIGHT be an option.
Dood Trigger™
I posted this on my ILS topic:

I got my game literally paused right now at the Temple Assembly Site, after jumping past the branch. I'm on the rock platform behind the tree that leads to the secret world.

However, I managed to do this once before and Samus got stuck when I jumped "inside" the tree. Not even bomb jumping got her out of there. What exactly should I do now to get that early PB?
Mmmmmm... Honey Roasted Metroids
Quote from ptorflaxendrosis:
Well... Aether jumping MIGHT be an option.


Are there any reliable sources that could tell me how to Aether Jump?
Dood Trigger™
Guys, how do I actually get out of the secret world after getting the PB? I'm stuck, I think. I'm underneath the room, but not so much that I'm falling into the abyss. Help?
Quote from cjsnow1:
Quote from ptorflaxendrosis:
Well... Aether jumping MIGHT be an option.


Are there any reliable sources that could tell me how to Aether Jump?


Well, to Aether Jump, wait underneath a room and press B repeatedly, you'll notice that after a while you'll be able to jump. Jump out into the side of the room (called the Aether), and you should get "stuck" kinda, you can still move, but you can't jump, just float gradually. Move out of the side Aether, and press B when you leave it, if you get another jump, then you did an Aether jump.

Maybe that's not the best explanation, but I can't think of anywhere else where it was explained. If you skip to 3:40 in this video



you can see what I mean.
rocks, locks, and invisible blocks
I didn't feel the need to make a thread on this because I'm assuming someone can just tell me here so; in the trilogy version of Echoes, whats the lowest percentage?
Dood Trigger™
Any help with the scan jump to the bot (crossing the Grand Abyss Grapple-less)? I've seen the videos but I'm having trouble with the input. It's hard to tell which buttons I'm supposed to hold until the end, or the order to press R/B.
@Da Dood don't even bother trying to do that trick in bounds.  It serves no point unless your doing a speedrun or if you have something against secret worlds.  Wallcrawl past GA, it is way easier then trying to manage this trick in bounds.  Use the Sentinel's path sw or the morph sw (forgot the name of the room).
Dood Trigger™
Okay, cool. I don't have anything against SWs. Will have to do some research for those SWs. Thanks, man!
Dood Trigger™
I managed to enter the Sentinel's Path SW and load the big room with the Rezbits, but I can't move much past the entrance (from Sentinel's Path). Either I get stuck in the ceiling or I fall into an endless pit (the game's normal endless pit that respawns Samus).

Let's keep trying...
Dood Trigger™
I'm having a lot of trouble crossing Watch Station for this. Surprisingly, getting up the Sentinel shaft is the easiest part. But as soon as I load Watch Station, I can't do much. I tried falling out of bounds, but the game for some reason registers my fall as in bounds (Samus respawns normally). If I jump back, I'm inside Sentinel's Path and then the game dumps Watch Station data.

This is so frustrating, haha. :\
you really have to be careful when wallcrawling past rooms with terminal falls.  it would be difficult for me to explain the wallcrawl in detail.  It would be best if you pay close attention to the following video: 

its a video from miles's now outdated 14 percent run.  yeah, and don't worry, secret world traversal is frustrating at first, but with a ton of trial and error, you will realize that it makes your life a lot easier, especially for tricks like grapple skip. 
Dood Trigger™
Thanks man, that's quite helpful. I ended up beating that file normally, but will start another one to try that.
my umbrella goes directly to Bankai
wallcrawling is at its worst in sanctuary fortress. i nearly gave up in my no-LB run there. fortunately, i had prior SW experience and learned a few things on the way.
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Met_A_Ridley: 2012-11-17 02:34:51 pm
Seeing there's a lot of new tricks found in this game, I wonder if there are some great tutorials to be found anywhere?
I'd prefer videos with notes. Kind of like this one: Ice Beam Before Flaahgra Tutorial (Easiest Method)
The last stuff I read was when MP2 was fairly new and the "coolest" thing was to get early Screw Attack. I mean, looking at for example Paul Evans' 2:25 run from 2005, it seems totally obsolete. And back then, people thought like that was as good as it gets. I was already then disheartened to try myself, because I never succeeded in getting SA early, because I failed at roll jumping...
But now there are some other things that at least seems more plausible for me to achieve.

Looking forward to seeing the tutorials and to see a lot more experimenting on possibilities in MP2! Not only getting low times and low %! But doing things in various orders is to me interesting as well. That is, getting various upgrades before various guardians.

Oh, and a second question: is one powerbomb enough on Boost Guardian also on hard mode? And, yeah, is there some special technique to get the screw attack working on Emperor Ing, last form?

Props and Kudos to Miles, who is a living legend! =) You should be employed! aiwebs_004
Edit history:
kirbymastah: 2012-11-21 08:28:03 pm


this is a REALLY good tutorial by miles himself about how to do ILS.

I could try making a video about getting the early power bomb trick as well, since I've been through just about every problem people go through when trying to learn it <_< skipping echo visor is doable too, but it's very easy, and I'm sure people would be more interested in a tutorial video of skipping quadraxis itself (where r u miles)

I'm still very new to mp2 as well, so tutorial videos for freaking sanddigger would be great, haha
Thanks for the reply, kirby. I saw that video and it's great.
I'm currently trying to get IBBF though, and I honestly need to figure out how secret worlds work, in general and basically. Trying to figure out when I'm in aether and when I'm not and how the heck I can get back up if I fall, which I do a lot. Very tiresome. And sometimes Samus won't jump more than once.
I've tried to understand what I've read about aether jumping and watching miles' video where he explains the backing out of aether to keep from falling all the way down. I tried that, but no success whatsoever. My impatience works against me and most of all I guess I don't have full control over my hands.
I just want to be able to perform the SW tricks. I've pretty much abandoned the thought of being able to perform a lot of bomb jumping, as it takes so much skill and practice to get the timing right. (Just look at Miles trying to bomb his way up the half pipe in Ruined Shrine... - I would've given up ages ago.) So I'm quite aware of that there are some stuff that I'll never be able to do. But this wallcrawling seems a bit more basic. Except that it seems to also require timing and stuff. But I'm more hoping for luck there.

Until I figure wallcrawling out, I guess I can't do so much that I haven't tried before.

That's why I'd love some place which collected all tutorials in one place for all the stuff. And some great tutorials which also was directed to n00bs like me. Or rather amateurs.
Like, most posts here that are being posted, I'm like "whaaat?" about. For example the latest find in Dolphin. It's just numbers to me... I'm easily overwhelmed, so to say. Not saying that I'm stupid, I'm quite intelligent, just that I was always slow.aiwebs_014
If I'd ever get a time in Prime around 2:30 any %, I'd be thrilled. And for MP2, I'd be happy to beat the game at all on hard mode.
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kirbymastah: 2012-11-23 06:45:36 pm
First of all, don't learn about wallcrawlling in mp1. Don't start with IBBF. Don't even bother with wallcrawling in mp1, because due to mp1's physics, if you mess up one aether jump, you fall all the way down (aka start all the way over). Plus, you don't need to aether jump for IBBF.

To learn about wallcrawling, start with mp2, which has the best physics for aether jumping, because if you miss an aether jump, you still have 100% air control (as long as you're holding L...), and you can just fall right back into the aether with minimal height loss. But really, outside of IBBF, you really don't need to know about wallcrawling for mp1 since it's useless outside of low% and IBBF, at least for now. For mp2, learn about the basics of wallcrawling and you can get around pretty easily since conveniently enough, mp2 is the most friendly for wallcrawling as well.

Also, while watching miles's videos is great and all, don't start off by following every bit he does, because some of the things he does are quite honestly ridiculous and NOT a good place to start. If you want, I can try to make a video of getting early power bomb in MP2 over this weekend, as it goes over the basics of wallcrawling pretty well.
Edit history:
Met_A_Ridley: 2012-11-23 07:15:20 pm
Alrighty. But how can I get IBBF without aether jumping? Most videos I've seen have at least some movement outside the map.
I just figured that if I tried wallcrawling in MP1 and mastered it, I wouldn't have any troubles in MP2. Razz
But it is kind of disheartening for me to realize that my wallcrawling is very ineffective. I mean, failing in MP1 is almost inevitable, because there are almost no marginals.
I just think it'd be cool to get IBBF. Not that it's crucial in any way for me, but having seen it's definitely possible and even a part of today's speedruns, I feel I want to add it to my repertoire.
However, it stinks to have to start over when I fail. Gathering Hall is a bitch.
It'd be nice to truly understand wallcrawling also in MP1. What I am looking for to do at each point, other than just skywalking and skipping around.
MP1 also has a special place in my heart, because it was the first Metroid game for me since the NES version(!) and I was blown away with the graphics, the atmosphere, everything.
It's also IMO better than MP2, because that game, quite frankly, is too difficult.

I know, don't we all adore Miles in our different ways? aiwebs_020

Anyway, if I'd be able to do early power bombs and ILS, I'd be a happy camper and return to MP2 indefinitely. My only fear is that while ILS looks doable for me, it will be so much harder to perform IRL.
Please feel free to make a video!

I wish we could take these games down to a more close-to-earth level. Sure, seeing all the new tricks is great and all for me and I happily watch a good speedrun, but I know that I want to be able too to do some of "that". And just from reading technical aspects and looking at the videos, I have no clue of what's going on. I wasn't a born pro nor will I ever be as great as some are.
For example, I tried doing a few of the tricks they do in TLoZ: Wind Waker. Like dry storage and superswim. I managed to do it, but not at all as easily as they do it. It takes some crazy timing skills, I'm telling you. I'm just not that quick.
Edit history:
kirbymastah: 2012-11-23 07:26:38 pm
ILS is much, much, much easier than you think. I started with mp2 100% because I was intimidated that ILs would be difficult, when in reality, as long as you follow miles's video and don't get unlucky with crashes, then it's VERY VERY easy. All you need to know is the basics of aether jumping really (at least, to do ILS in a reasonable amount of time).

Um I don't know how IBBF works exactly, since I've never done it myself (I don't speedrun mp1 much) I just know you don't need to aether jump. You just need to know where to jump on the bounds of the room; it's probably best to ask around the mp1 forums. Remember that aether jumping is jumping into and out of the aether repeatedly to gain height; you don't need to do that for IBBF.

Honestly, wallcrawling is not that bad. But don't be disheartened, because it really is WTF the first time you try it out and start learning. After a good chunk of practice with wallcrawling in mp2, wallcrawling becomes more natural. Also, understanding wallcrawling in mp2 is the same as understanding wallcrawling in mp1 and mp3, as all three use basically the same 'system'. The main difference is in jumping physics, which is what makes mp2 > mp3 >>>>> mp1 for ease in aether jumping.

Watching people do mp2 is a good idea too (and mp1...) but again, trying out what miles does is NOT a good place to start. I use mp2 routes that are pretty reasonable (I just started learning mp2 a few months back), so I recommend watching me stream. Mrspeedrun also streams both mp1 and mp2, though I don't think he does IBBF yet. Axon64 does plenty of mp1, and he can do IBBF, but iirc he's not comfortable with it enough to do it in regular runs yet.

twitch.tv/kirbymastah
twitch.tv/mrspeedrun
twitch.tv/axon64

Finally, go on sda's #metroidprime irc channel and ask around for help on stuff too!
Thanks for your reply/replies. It seems like you're the only one here paying attention to a fool like me. Razz
I truly want to understand wallcrawling/aether jumping. And that's why I'm so pigheaded to do it in MP1, because sinec it's more difficult there, and if I can learn it anyway, MP2 should be a breeze.
However I can curse the graphics in MP1. Or maybe it's the movement system that matters. I like to think it's both.

I need to know aether jumping with IBBF, because if I fall down, which I almost always do on my way, I need to get back up. Restarting takes not only a lot of time, but it's wearing my patience thin as well.
I wish it was a lot more easy to hop over to where I'm supposed to.
Sometimes it also seems like the game has glitches. Because it feels like I can't move the same way every time. That has to do with the programming. I feel that MP2 is more consistent about how and what you can do.
So for me, in MP2, either I can do something, or I don't have a clue and never will.
Like roll jumping. That has gotten the best of me.

I am however tempted to learn 3BJ, because I want to get that early beam ammo expansion. Not crucial, I know, but darn nice to have early on. I like to spend that ammo and I was really bummed and almost mad that they introduced limited beam ammo in a Metroid game.
Heck, not even the AR codes work to get infinite ammo...!gah

Thanks for the links. I'll be sure to check them out shortly. Right now however I've been up all night playing with my online movie database.
By the way, it should be mandatory to have a head cam on Twitch for your videos, so you can see your controllers. :)
Like Cosmo Wright has. (You don't have to paint your fingernails though... laugh new)
It's good help to see what the player actually does with his hands and when, when he performs a trick.
Edit history:
kirbymastah: 2012-11-24 08:56:36 am
kirbymastah: 2012-11-24 08:56:24 am
Well the only thing I can say, from what others have said about IBBF, is... don't fall down. If you fall down, good luck getting back up, and the run is basically over. Miles is the only mp1 runner I know that does IBBF in his runs regularly (I'm not sure if TR does it though), and even he still messes it up sometimes. You just have to practice IBBF... a LOT. I can't say much else about IBBF, since I've never done it... I'll wait for miles to respond about it.

Still, for wallcrawling, start with mp2, because aether jumping is actually possible in it :P I'll try to get a video up today.

The early beam ammo expansion in Agon with the 3BSJ is NOT worth it. It is far from consistent, and you basically have one try at it until you activate the pirate cutscene. I don't think even miles has it 100% consistent. You can still get the early beam ammo pretty easily right after the pirate fight by doing a BSJ to the right turret, then either rolljumping off of the platform to the center platform, or scandash there. Limited ammo was a good idea in mp2 really, because the light/dark beams are just so absurdly powerful, and the only weakness for uncharged annihilator is that it drains your ammo (otherwise it'd be more OP than it already is).

Yeah, basically everyone I know changes their grip of the controller when doing BSJs / rolljumps. I personally put my thumb on B and my index finger on X so I can press X then B in quick succession (middle finger on R if I need to rolljump).