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Oliver
2009-02-26 04:03:21 pm
That's a very good idea unless I have no Wii nor Corruption. Sorry.
I can do some BSJs in Prime1 and echoes but only the ones which require that the camera is hidden by a wall after a BJ (like the one used to skip the gate to fight Quadraxis, or its light counterpart to get the missile expansion without the echo visor). I can't get the ones that occur when you're back against a wall (like I said : forgotten bridge, great bridge, the alpha blogg skip, etc).
DJGrenola
DJGrenola
Edit history:
DJGrenola: 2009-02-26 06:07:48 pm
2009-02-26 05:52:22 pm
BSJ is a funny one. If it makes you feel any better, there are old posts on this forum where I rant about being completely unable to do it myself. Obviously, it's something you get better at.

There are two important parts: getting the instant unmorph right, and getting the X->B timing right. Not all instant unmorphs will give you a BSJ, so you just have to play around to get a feel for what works and what doesn't. One fun place to practise is in the room where Seekers are collected, where you can BSJ up to the inactive portal that Samus uses to leave Dark Aether in the final cinematics of the game.

There's also the X->B timing, and as I'm sure you're sick of reading by now, you really can't do this too fast.

Regarding the Dark Forgotten Bridge jump -- do not be discouraged, because this really is one of the hardest tricks in the game. In the 1:38 I waste something like twenty seconds after completing the DFB BSJ to go and save before Boost Guardian. Half of this was because Boost Guardian is very hard under any% conditions, but if you add to that the difficulty of the DFB BSJ under speed conditions ... well, you'd have to be a far better player than I to do that segment without saving.

The trick to manipulating the camera so that it ends up in the right place above Samus is to push the stick ever so slightly forward of centre as you morph, before snapping it back to backwards to try to stay on the fence. That's it. Of course, in something like two out of three attempts, this causes you to fall off the fence, but that's sequence breaking for you, I'm afraid.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention that I found staying on the fence easier when I used one particular GC controller compared to when I tried my other controllers. You're better off using a controller with as little looseness as possible around the centre position.
Oliver
2009-02-26 06:37:13 pm
This is really helpful, thanks, but I still don't get why I can't get the instant unmorph when having my back against a wall. Take the alpha blogg skip for example. This bsj seems quite obvious but I always get the unmorph animation, no matter what. And that's the same for the other spots I've tried so far (CMS, great bridge, etc). So I don't see what I'm missing. And trust me, I've tried countless times. I also don't understand why your view is aiming down after the instant unmorph.

Quote from DJGrenola:
In the 1:38 I waste something like twenty seconds after completing the DFB BSJ to go and save before Boost Guardian. Half of this was because Boost Guardian is very hard under any% conditions, but if you add to that the difficulty of the DFB BSJ under speed conditions

In your any%, I don't see this bsj. There is the one for reversing this room, but otherwise nope. You may have your 17% in mind.
DJGrenola
2009-02-26 07:17:40 pm
Quote from Oliver:
This is really helpful, thanks, but I still don't get why I can't get the instant unmorph when having my back against a wall. Take the alpha blogg skip for example. This bsj seems quite obvious but I always get the unmorph animation, no matter what. And that's the same for the other spots I've tried so far (CMS, great bridge, etc). So I don't see what I'm missing. And trust me, I've tried countless times. I also don't understand why your view is aiming down after the instant unmorph.

Quote from DJGrenola:
In the 1:38 I waste something like twenty seconds after completing the DFB BSJ to go and save before Boost Guardian. Half of this was because Boost Guardian is very hard under any% conditions, but if you add to that the difficulty of the DFB BSJ under speed conditions

In your any%, I don't see this bsj. There is the one for reversing this room, but otherwise nope. You may have your 17% in mind.


Sorry, you're right -- I got my runs mixed up. I haven't watched either of them for a while.

You can go over the fence in any%, but it's suicidally hard for the reasons outlined above, and according to my estimates it wouldn't be any faster. I'll have a think about your other points and see if I can think of anything -- I don't have my copy of Prime 2 with me at the moment, unfortunately.
tjp7154
2009-02-26 08:36:26 pm
Bananas GOOD, Kremlings BAD
Here's an experiment:

1. Go to the place where you fought (and defeated Alpha Blogg)
2. Put your back to a wall
3. Holding the L button, tap forward as you morph to get the camera behind you.
4. If the camera starts to move left/right, inch a little bit forward until it stops moving left/right.
5. Don't press the L button anymore for any of the next steps.
5. Lay a bomb.
6. As son as the bomb explodes, hold the control stick back (toward the wall) and at the peak of the jump (before it comes to its peak) press the X (unmorph) button, then release the X button and press the B (jump)  button.

If you still can't do the bsj, let me know where you fail.
Oliver
2009-02-27 06:37:12 pm
As soon as I had read your post, I knew that I had found what I was looking for. I just missed holding back to the wall when the first bomb explodes. So I made the alpha blogg room bsj quite easily. Same for great bridge.
I still can't do the dark forgotten bridge bsj. I manage to morph on the tiny ledge beside the fence. I have to hold back so I don't fall. Then I do a single bj, but I don't get the instant unmorph. Any clue ? I might be able to post a video of a failed attempt if it helps.
DJGrenola
DJGrenola
Edit history:
DJGrenola: 2009-02-27 08:45:52 pm
2009-02-27 08:42:42 pm
Try letting the stick go to centre just as or before the bomb goes off. You'll roll forwards a little, and then you should be able to pull backwards again during the ascent to get the instant unmorph.

You might also be interested in the BSJ+ (using two bombs laid very fast one on top of the other -- you'll need to drum A with two fingers very quickly one after the other). If done right, both bombs will go off almost simultaneously, and the extra boost should be enough to enable you to get over the fence without floating and without having to use a 2bsj or 3bsj (which are very hard from this position unless you're bartendorsparky).
Oliver
2009-03-12 11:50:34 pm
Now I can get the instant unmorph but the fence is still hard to hop, at least without floating during a minute to ascend on top of it.

More important, I'm currently trying to do a 14%. I've made everything until boost. So I'd like to do sanctuary fortress before Chyka. But I need to escape from Path of eyes without supers. I'd like to have some help for the SW122 (Torvus Transport Access). AFAIK, only DJGrenola has made this one. I can get on the hive, get the wasp in correct position, but I mess the dash up each try. I seem to end up too far from the aether to step in.
On a side note, I need some advice for the floaty dash mentionned by tjp7154 a while ago. I've only made Agon mining plaza's dash once in thousands and thousands tries.
DJGrenola
2009-03-23 06:51:39 pm
I think the answer to both your questions lies in when you press R during the dash. The secret world is a tough one, and it's been a long time since I did it. You have to bend the dash backwards, but you need to wait until you're past the tree before bending it, and then you need to press R after that. There's not really much else I can tell you about the timing. It isn't straightforward, but there are harder tricks.

Regarding the floaty dash: I've always been of the opinion that the most important thing is to get the timing of the R press right, but I think tjp mentioned a few other things that he considers important.
Oliver
2009-03-23 08:34:16 pm
I've watched your vid again and I don't see what is this tree you're talking about.
Anyways I have to get much better with dash jumps and raise my success percentage for the Vault dash. Also I never had to do successfully a bent dash so far, so that may help for Grand Abyss as well.
DJGrenola
2009-03-24 02:07:51 am
Sorry, I probably meant "rock face" rather than tree. I was very tired when I wrote that post ...
Oliver
2009-03-28 10:04:41 pm
I'm still working on a 14% run. So far I couldn't escape Path of eyes without supers (damn SW122), but I can make the wallcrawl from Forgotten Bridge to the elevator room to Sanctuary Fortress (via Training Chamber).

How is it possible to continue the trip in Sanctuary Fortress without any PB, supers nor seekers ?
Atomicbomb24
Atomicbomb24
Edit history:
Atomicbomb24: 2009-06-30 05:43:43 pm
2009-06-30 01:44:48 am
Take cover or die...
Haven't been on in a while, or posted for that matter, but just to let anyone who cares know, I'll probably be on more like when I first started visiting the site since it's Summer now. As for my no-SJ run, I wasn't really working on it much either until now, but I have made some progress. I made it into Unseen Way inside the SW about halfway before the ascent up the room, then I fell. Tjp wasn't lying when he said it was annoying...-_- I feel pretty confident that I can bypass this room, though.

EDIT:

This morning, I put an hour into this run and I was able to clear UW inside the Secret World by following the video almost exactly, and I also made it past Dark Reactor Core (the room after). Unfortunately, in the next room with all the pipes (I forget the name), I used screw attack by accident and got stuck, so I had to reset. I always have to reset because I either fall down or use SA by accident. The game even crashed one time because it couldn't take all the stuff that was happening at once >_>. Well, if I can get back to that spot then maybe I can actually obtain the key...

Second edit:

Yesssss, I got the key! I made it back to the tunnel room, and instead of jumping, I did bomb jumping to avoid accidentally activating screw attack and getting stuck again. I did that for the whole room, and then I made it to Hive Entrance. I followed Tjp's run very closely, and I still got stuck numerous times (I think around 10 times). I also fell down to the bottom a couple of times, but I didn't fall all the way below the room...Eventually, I made it far enough, climbed to the top of the room, and got back in. From there on, I made it back to the save point and finished that annoying SW. This means there are pretty much no more problems in this run. My friend might be letting me borrow Prime 1, so I might be on those boards later. Till next time...
tjp7154
2009-07-03 10:22:15 am
Bananas GOOD, Kremlings BAD
Well good!  You should definitely be able to complete the game now.  You still have a few more tricks, but you got through the worst.  Pre-congratulations!
Atomicbomb24
2009-07-04 12:31:13 pm
Take cover or die...
Just finished the game without space jump last night. The only two problems were Torvus Grove (getting the instant unmorph was unusually hard for me in that room with the 2BJ), and Sanctum Access (this wasn't that big of a problem, took me around 5 minutes to get the timing of the first screw attack that triggered the free one). Other than that, I finished with like 6 hours mainly because I didn't really consider it a speed run, and that the SW took like an hour >_>. Like I said before, I might start Prime 1 runs if my friend lets me borrow it. Until then, I gotta find someting to do O_o.
Zyborggian
2009-09-07 05:22:20 pm
Disguzting homosapienz!...
I need to ask a quick question.
Is it possible to get Seeker Missiles without boost ball?
I heard from somewhere that the spinners can be activated without the boost ball...
Serris
2009-09-16 05:56:12 pm
Well, I unlocked and beat everything of Trilogy, except MP2 Hyper. Ing Emperor 3 is a complete pain despite 100% items, and Screw Attack doesn't work anymore. Any tips? Farming the Inglets during phase 2 doesn't work, either (not that it would help much), because the purple mist completely fills up the room very fast. I managed to enter phase 3 with full health once, but his erratic movements and hard-to-dodge (for me) moves are too much for me. Phase 1 is annoying enough, and shooting the tentacles with Annihilator (the only thing which seems to hit them) burns through my beam ammo really fast. In phase 3, I'm having a lot of trouble hitting him at all. I use Super Missiles (which hit maybe one out of three times) to stun and spam Annihilator shots to damage him (half of which hit his legs instead of the core), but I enter phase 3 with 100 ammo at best. It just seems like I have very few (and very limited) weapons that even work against him effectively, despite 100%.
perfectnote
2009-09-16 06:22:35 pm
100 ammo ?! Wasn't the maximum 250 ? Well, whatever. Don't shoot the phase one's tentacles with the Annihilator. You're wasting ammo. Shoot them with the Power or Light Beam. For the second phase, just drop a power bomb from time to time, to ensure your safety and destroy Inglets. Now, for phase three, following my advice, you should enter the battle with at least 150-200 light/dark ammo. Make sure you shoot at the right time to hit him. Shoot only when you're sure you're going to hit. There's not really anything we can do but wishing you good luck.

Zyborggian : I don't know if you're playing on Trilogy, but if you aren't, then yes, it's possible. It's also possible to do it just after the super missiles, but that imply returning to the landing site.
Serris
2009-09-16 07:08:47 pm
Well, I didn't find a use for the Dark Beam, so I don't know why I should use Light over Annihilator, unless it's actually stronger, but it hits even less. With the Power Beam, they'd probably kill me before destroying them all. And I can never be sure I'm going to hit because he's constantly moving around, which is really the main problem. As much as I fought him, I never saw any pattern to his movements.
perfectnote
2009-09-16 07:13:33 pm
You can use the Dark Beam in the last phase. You will need it if you want to win.
UchihaSasuke
2009-09-16 08:27:03 pm
my umbrella goes directly to Bankai
i beat emperor ing 3 with the usual annihilator/power beam strat.

first, use light beam for the phase 1 tentacles. then super missiles for the core. if you have free-aim on, disable that shit.
phase 2, only use PBs.
phase 3, use super missiles when the emperor's mouth is red. when it chages color, switch quickly to annihilator and shoot in at an angle where you see his mouth clearly. you need to be quick to keep up and hit him in the correct angle.
you'll run out of ammo so you need to prepare to hit the things he spams eventually to recharge. the light things are easy to hit to get a lot of ammo back (pray you get those and not the dark enemies because those are harder to hit).
when he uses his light beams, dodge them because they drain a lot of health.
use SA to get away quickly when he jumps and does his wave stomp attack.

there's not much outside that. this boss is quite hard with the intended methods.
Gamma_Metroid
2009-09-18 03:15:22 pm
Really?  I didn't think he was that hard at all.  For the first phase, I use either seeker missiles or the power beam on the tentacles, then super missiles on the core.  The second form, I use bombs, and occasionaly a power bomb to get two or three at a time.  Third form, super missiles, then the opposite beam for colors.  I usually end up with plenty of ammo and health for Dark Samus.
UchihaSasuke
2009-09-18 06:59:44 pm
my umbrella goes directly to Bankai
Quote from Gamma_Metroid:
Really?  I didn't think he was that hard at all.  For the first phase, I use either seeker missiles or the power beam on the tentacles, then super missiles on the core.  The second form, I use bombs, and occasionaly a power bomb to get two or three at a time.  Third form, super missiles, then the opposite beam for colors.  I usually end up with plenty of ammo and health for Dark Samus.


in the trilogy and wii de asobu versions, the tentacles are much stronger, even in the lowest difficulty. you need to use PBs to kill them in 1 shot since they take way too many regular bombs.
perfectnote
2009-09-18 08:06:33 pm
WHY ?! Why do they make so much changes ? The soundtrack, the bosses...what's next ? In the GC version, even at Hard, you can destroy the tentacles in phase two with 3-4 normal bombs.
Opium
2009-09-19 01:38:43 am
I use annihilator beam on the first phase tentacles.  It's homing ability and rapid fire allow you to take them all out very quickly.  Your dark/light ammo is quite depleted when you get to the final phase, but emperor ing drops large refills so it's no biggie.