The "I need help" Topic

Edit history:

Metroid177: 2014-01-17 02:11:46 pm

Metroid177: 2014-01-17 01:54:56 pm

2014-01-17 01:50:34 pm

That sucks so much.

I know there is a ledge at the top of the spider tracks that PAL runners jump to to get through mqa without spider. It might be possible to freeze a metroid near this area and do a metroid jump up to the ledge.

Another idea would be to try and lure a metroid in between the platform that leads to the ice door and the platform that is next to the powerbomb wall. Freeze him and then do a scan dash onto the frozen metroid and try to metroid jump to the ice door.
Either way, this would be pretty crazy to pull off (this has never been confirmed) but you really don't have many options at this point

Edit:
Here is an example of a metroid jump--you can get quite a bit of height if done correctly

Daryoshi

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2014-01-17 02:17:18 pm

2014-01-17 02:16:17 pm

loving low%

Wow, okay, so dashing off a Metroid is actually possible?

Well, I'm just gonna test out if anything works on a 100% file and hope that one of my 2 methods will work or that one of your method will work. But it could also be that you have to do the same as in the upper video, but very fast: http://www.metroid2002.com/without_spider_metroid_quarantine_a.php

A Metroid Jump seems to give you really much height, but still, it's going to be hard and I hate spending time on stuff that hasn't been confirmed...

I don't think I WOULD be going to have TOOOOO much trouble getting 21% until this again, but the Crossway segment and the Vent Shaft + PPC segment and the Wallcrawl for Plasma Beam sucked so hard. The rest wasn't too hard. Especially the Great Tree Chamber SW and the Life Grove wallcrawl was easier than expected. Well, I hope I don't have to do it all again, though... Brick wall

Perhaps, very unlikely though: Is there a possible SW to bypass it?

Metroid177

Edit history:

Metroid177: 2014-01-17 02:47:09 pm

Metroid177: 2014-01-17 02:47:03 pm

Metroid177: 2014-01-17 02:47:01 pm

2014-01-17 02:40:08 pm

It's okay. If you have done it once before then you can pull it off again. Also nice job on getting x-ray in 21% conditions so quickly. I absolutely hate that part...
When I did my 21% run I hated vent shaft and so I tried to do the lower mines twice and use the mqb sw to bypass vent shaft. But after coming back to the mines I realized just like you did that the metroids saw me and I couldn't get past mqa. I had to erase the file and do it all over again, so I know how it feels.

There are no sw's that can help you in this situation. There are only two mines secret worlds and one of them is impossible without space jump. The other one (mqb) is useless in this scenario. Even if you could get oob with the other phazon mines sw it is impossible to transition the vertical ice beam door that leads you to main quarry.

Also trying to bring a metroid by luring it up to the top floor won't work like in the video you suggested. The r jump to reach the door without sj has to be at a certain angle and it is annoying enough to pull off with the current set up.

It's okay.  If you have done it once before then you can pull it off again.  Also nice job on getting x-ray in 21% conditions so quickly.  I absolutely hate that part...
When I did my 21% run I hated vent shaft and so I tried to do the lower mines twice and use the mqb sw to bypass vent shaft.  But after coming back to the mines I realized just like you did that the metroids saw me and I couldn't get past mqa.  I had to erase the file and do it all over again, so I know how it feels.

There are no sw's that can help you in this situation.  There are only two mines secret worlds and one of them is impossible without space jump.  The other one (mqb) is useless in this scenario.  Even if you could get oob with the other phazon mines sw it is impossible to transition the vertical ice beam door that leads you to main quarry.

Also trying to bring a metroid by luring it up to the top floor won't work like in the video you suggested.  The r jump to reach the door without sj has to be at a certain angle and it is annoying enough to pull off with the current set up.

Daryoshi

2014-01-17 03:24:02 pm

loving low%

Quote:

Also nice job on getting x-ray in 21% conditions so quickly. I absolutely hate that part...

Yeah, I probably just got lucky, I did enter did SW once with SJB and once without SJB and it took less long to get than getting the whole segment in my 22% in-bounds walkthrough from 11 months ago. I was positively surprised as well... :-)

Quote:

But after coming back to the mines I realized just like you did that the metroids saw me and I couldn't get past mqa. I had to erase the file and do it all over again, so I know how it feels.

Oh god, I'm so sorry for that! But did you look into making it to the Ice Beam door in MQA anyway or did you just abandon it since you thought it's impossible then.
Because, even if MQA is VERY hard now, it'll take more time to get 21% up to this point again, so I better look into it and hope dies last... ;-)

Quote:

Also trying to bring a metroid by luring it up to the top floor won't work like in the video you suggested. The r jump to reach the door without sj has to be at a certain angle and it is annoying enough to pull off with the current set up.

Unless you're 100% sure I'm gping to look into this anyway.

[quote]Also nice job on getting x-ray in 21% conditions so quickly.  I absolutely hate that part...[/quote]
Yeah, I probably just got lucky, I did enter did SW once with SJB and once without SJB and it took less long to get than getting the whole segment in my 22% in-bounds walkthrough from 11 months ago. I was positively surprised as well... :-)

[quote] But after coming back to the mines I realized just like you did that the metroids saw me and I couldn't get past mqa.  I had to erase the file and do it all over again, so I know how it feels. [/quote]
Oh god, I'm so sorry for that! But did you look into making it to the Ice Beam door in MQA anyway or did you just abandon it since you thought it's impossible then.
Because, even if MQA is VERY hard now, it'll take more time to get 21% up to this point again, so I better look into it and hope dies last... ;-)

[quote]Also trying to bring a metroid by luring it up to the top floor won't work like in the video you suggested.  The r jump to reach the door without sj has to be at a certain angle and it is annoying enough to pull off with the current set up. [/quote]
Unless you're 100% sure I'm gping to look into this anyway.

Baby Sheegoth

2014-01-17 05:28:38 pm

Yeah the R-Jump is ALMOST impossible enough with the proper setup

T3

Edit history:

T3: 2014-01-17 10:35:01 pm

T3: 2014-01-17 10:34:53 pm

2014-01-17 10:34:10 pm

done with space jump. both dashes should be possible without having it though.

Daryoshi

2014-01-18 09:04:29 am

loving low%

Okay, so I was messing around in MQA for like 6 hours today and I couldn't get anywhere on the actual 21% file.

On a completed file, I was able to get a frozen Metroid Jump from all the way down where the Phazon is (right next to the huge pillar with the Ice Beam door on top of it).
With Space Jump, I got enough height to clear the huge pillar 3 or 4 times, but without SJB, you'd probably have to DBJ onto them (which is very tricky) because getting so much height as it is needed here is not possible (it seems) when the Metroid almost touches the ground. At some point I just gave up. The jump would have to be extremely luckily high, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was indeed possible (maybe even without having to DBJ onto it).

Any advise on those Metroid Jumps? It seems very random to get abump at all and to make it up all the way up the huge pillar is a real pain w/out SJB... Also, does it make a difference if you have got SJB or not for a Metroid Jump itself? I'm not sure as it was way to fast every time I made it up.

I then practiced the method T3 uploaded, and I indeed got the 2nd jump twice in total (didn't try for very long), but I had to get my AR and use Moonjump for the 1st jump. I just can't seem to get the 1st jump of T3's video. I tried for over an hour WITH Moonjump to get back up faster. But I NEVER made it. I landed on the pipe a bunch of times, but I always slipped of because of to much momentum because you have to use an R-Dash.

Could you write down what you did for that to work, step by step?

Quote:

Quote:
Also trying to bring a metroid by luring it up to the top floor won't work like in the video you suggested. The r jump to reach the door without sj has to be at a certain angle and it is annoying enough to pull off with the current set up.
---
Unless you're 100% sure I'm gping to look into this anyway.
---
Yeah the R-Jump is ALMOST impossible enough with the proper setup

Well, I tried this as well and came very close. But still, T3's method seems to be the most viable. There're probably even more than 2 methods to get 21% MQA down, but some are random or immensively difficult.

Okay, so I was messing around in MQA for like 6 hours today and I couldn't get anywhere on the actual 21% file.

On a completed file, I was able to get a frozen Metroid Jump from all the way down where the Phazon is (right next to the huge pillar with  the Ice Beam door on top of it).
With Space Jump, I got enough height to clear the huge pillar 3 or 4 times, but without SJB, you'd probably have to DBJ onto them (which is very tricky) because getting so much height as it is needed here is not possible (it seems) when the Metroid almost touches the ground. At some point I just gave up. The jump would have to be extremely luckily high, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was indeed possible (maybe even without having to DBJ onto it).

Any advise on those Metroid Jumps? It seems very random to get  abump at all and to make it up all the way up the huge pillar is a real pain w/out SJB... Also, does it make a difference if you have got SJB or not for a Metroid Jump itself? I'm not sure as it was way to fast every time I made it up.

I then practiced the method T3 uploaded, and I indeed got the 2nd jump twice in total (didn't try for very long), but I had to get my AR and use Moonjump for the 1st jump. I just can't seem to get the 1st jump of T3's video. I tried for over an hour WITH Moonjump to get back up faster. But I NEVER made it. I landed on the pipe a bunch of times, but I always slipped of because of to much momentum because you have to use an R-Dash.

Could you write down what you did for that to work, step by step?

[quote]
Quote:
Also trying to bring a metroid by luring it up to the top floor won't work like in the video you suggested.  The r jump to reach the door without sj has to be at a certain angle and it is annoying enough to pull off with the current set up.
---
Unless you're 100% sure I'm gping to look into this anyway.
---
Yeah the R-Jump is ALMOST impossible enough with the proper setup[/quote]

Well, I tried this as well and came very close. But still, T3's method seems to be the most viable. There're probably even more than 2 methods to get 21% MQA down, but some are random or immensively difficult.

T3

2014-01-18 02:52:08 pm

well, there's only 1 thing you really need to know and that's that you have to dash into the wall so that it kills all of your momentum. since you're r-dashing, you have no way of stopping yourself mid-dash so hitting the wall is the only way of landing on the beam without flying off. as far as positioning, i don't think it really needs to be that specific. in that video i positioned myself so that i was aligned with the missile and slightly up the incline. as far as the dash itself, i think you want to bend the dash slightly up and hold off on pressing r for SLIGHTLY longer than usual. you'll probably have several attempts where you hit the wall and then barely miss the beam, this means you're close and you should keep trying.

Daryoshi

2014-01-20 01:33:28 pm

loving low%

Okay, this should help! Thanks again! :-) I'll try this again until I hopefully get consistent and then try it on the actual 21% file until I hopefully get the 2nd dash in MQA and then hopefully get to the MQB savestation. Could this segment actually be harder than the Vent Shaft + PPC segment?

I made the 1st dash wrong every time. I positioned myself exactly as you did (before I read it's not too specific, I wondered how you positioned yourself so quickly).

Quote:

as far as the dash itself, i think you want to bend the dash slightly up and hold off on pressing r for SLIGHTLY longer than usual.

Okay, doing this should help me a lot in getting that dash: I did bend it forward, but I did bend it very much - and not just slightly - forward. Besides that, I let go of R just as I was hoping to land on the beam. Is this alternate MQA method showed in your video way harder, harder, only a bit harder, about the same difficulty or even easier than the regular MQA method with the Metroids?

---------

Oh man, I feel weird/ annyoing about posing so many 21% questions (I hope I'm not bothersome for the community. aiwebs_003

) but it's just so much easier to pull off most of the 21% things if you know what EXACTLY you've got to look at.
It's made clear by looking at the fact, that I got up to the Lifegrove Segment AGAIN (on another file) in 8-10 hours of playing (floating for Plasma Beam not included).
The Vent Shaft + PPC segment took me less than two hours! On the other hand, I'm now stuck on the actual HBJ for entering the SW in Great Tree Chamber.
It seems that I really got lucky the first and only time I've done it w/out BB and w/out SJB...

Okay, this should help! Thanks again! :-) I'll try this again until I hopefully get consistent and then try it on the actual 21% file until I hopefully get the 2nd dash in MQA and then hopefully get to the MQB savestation. Could this segment actually be harder than the Vent Shaft + PPC segment?

I made the 1st dash wrong every time. I positioned myself exactly as you did (before I read it's not too specific, I wondered how you positioned yourself so quickly).
[quote]as far as the dash itself, i think you want to bend the dash slightly up and hold off on pressing r for SLIGHTLY longer than usual.[/quote]
Okay, doing this should help me a lot in getting that dash: I did bend it forward, but I did bend it very much - and not just slightly - forward. Besides that, I let go of R just as I was hoping to land on the beam. Is this alternate MQA method showed in your video way harder, harder, only a bit harder, about the same difficulty or even easier than the regular MQA method with the Metroids?

---------

Oh man, I feel weird/ annyoing about posing so many 21% questions (I hope I'm not bothersome for the community. [aiwebs_003]) but it's just so much easier to pull off most of the 21% things if you know what EXACTLY you've got to look at.
It's made clear by looking at the fact, that I got up to the Lifegrove Segment AGAIN (on another file) in 8-10 hours of playing (floating for Plasma Beam not included).
The Vent Shaft + PPC segment took me less than two hours! On the other hand, I'm now stuck on the actual HBJ for entering the SW in Great Tree Chamber.
It seems that I really got lucky the first and only time I've done it w/out BB and w/out SJB...

T3

2014-01-20 10:07:05 pm

Quote:

Could this segment actually be harder than the Vent Shaft + PPC segment?

i'd say vent shaft + ppc is only harder if you're not doing vent shaft correctly.

Quote:

Is this alternate MQA method showed in your video way harder, harder, only a bit harder, about the same difficulty or even easier than the regular MQA method with the Metroids?

it's harder for sure but not by much.

Quote:

Oh man, I feel weird/ annyoing about posing so many 21% questions (I hope I'm not bothersome for the community.) but it's just so much easier to pull off most of the 21% things if you know what EXACTLY you've got to look at.

asking questions is what this topic is for... if it's annoying anybody, they just don't have to read it.

also i forgot to mention that you don't actually have to do that long annoying wallcrawl across magmoor anymore. you can just activate floaty jump in workstation (miles posted about it in the research topic), get oob in burning trail, get floaty jump, and then do geo core inbounds. this is way easier and a lot more efficient.

[quote]Could this segment actually be harder than the Vent Shaft + PPC segment?[/quote]
i'd say vent shaft + ppc is only harder if you're not doing vent shaft correctly.

[quote]Is this alternate MQA method showed in your video way harder, harder, only a bit harder, about the same difficulty or even easier than the regular MQA method with the Metroids?[/quote]
it's harder for sure but not by much.

[quote]Oh man, I feel weird/ annyoing about posing so many 21% questions (I hope I'm not bothersome for the community.) but it's just so much easier to pull off most of the 21% things if you know what EXACTLY you've got to look at.[/quote]
asking questions is what this topic is for... if it's annoying anybody, they just don't have to read it.

also i forgot to mention that you don't actually have to do that long annoying wallcrawl across magmoor anymore. you can just activate floaty jump in workstation (miles posted about it in the research topic), get oob in burning trail, get floaty jump, and then do geo core inbounds. this is way easier and a lot more efficient.

Daryoshi

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2014-01-25 06:47:15 am

Daryoshi: 2014-01-25 06:45:46 am

Daryoshi: 2014-01-25 06:44:15 am

2014-01-25 06:40:11 am

loving low%

So, I'm on Phendrana clean-up now (saved at Phendrana Shorelines with 18%) and there're a few options now.

I've been looking into Ice Ruins West w/ AR (i.e. Moonjump) and there seems to be a ledge that could perhaps be HBJ onto. You'd do the HBJ from the platform where the Wave Beam door is and hopefully eventually get up on the same "building" that you HBJ onto in Miles' 21% Demonstration Part 20. However, this only seems to be possible, if you could get the invisible, strangely-shaped wall around the big part of a rock near the Wave Beam door to increase your height gained by the unmorph at the peak of the jump.

This seems about possible at least, but I'm not sure if it'd be easier to practice the UBJ Miles did in his Demonstration Part 20...
On m2k2 it says that UBJ provide more height than HBJ when there's no wall you can press yourself against, so I take it as a HBJ isn't viable for getting onto that "building" Miles UBJ'ed onto? I've gotten some very good HBJ but never made it onto it (stupid invisible wall extending the ledges). Is this Bomb Jump actually hard? It's the SW Miles got into in the shortest time, out of those 3 he used, so I take it as (at least with something you've got know about it), this SW should be doable, but who knows how many hours and days I'd be needing...

Then again, there's this SW T3 found, that seems very, very random but quite easy compard to the Ice Ruins West SW. Problem here: how can I get to the Ice Beam door in the Elevator room connecting the path to Thardus with the path to Frozen Pike? Paraxade did it, and "...it was easier than I thought", but there were some problems with this room as well. Kip found out that you can reach and land and actually STAY on a invisible ledge (I guess it's really tiny and specific as I looked into with Moonjump) and no very hard Bomb Jumps at all were involved to scale this room. If I could do this, I could just Save in the Frost Cave Savestation and try to get into the SW in Frost Cave, right?

On the other hand, there's also the possiblity of getting Phendrana's Edge done. And believe me, that can't be the hardest room in 21%, right?! I mean, I'm already fairly consistent at everything but the insanely strange DBJ onto the Grapple Point, that one is really hard and specific it seems, but the Dash onto the branch is very easy with pausing-abuse and I got the hang of the strange Ghetto Jump onto the Ice Platform above the branch, so, I should get it sometime. Problem here would be to get out of the freaking water and up to the Wave Beam door every time I fall down in the water, which is harder than it sounds. Another problem would be to get to Phendrana's Edge itself, but IIRC, the only room preventing me from making this feasible is said Elevator room I mentioned above, right? The rest of the rooms up to Phendrana's Edge is no problem without Space Jump Boots, right?
I mean, until you're in the Elevator room, you've got to cross Twin Fires Tunnel WHEN COMING FROM THE TALLON ELEVATOR, but that's possible w/out SJB and w/out Gravity Suit by making a quite lagged DBJ.
If that isn't possible, however, I'd have to cross the Pirate Labs (including Observatory which I'm not sure if it's possible while skipping Boost Ball as well) and scale Ruined Courtyard (mainly this annoying UBJ) to have access to the Pirate Labs at first place. But as long as Twin Fires Tunnel and Transport to Magmoor Caverns South can be cleared under 21% conditions, I'm fairly sure I'll eventually get the Artifact of Ghost in-bounds.

Also, what about the Artifact of Elder? There're a few rooms that are impossible to scale under 21% conditions, Ore Processing is one of them, making for a certain route you've got to clear the Phazon Mines. I think Observatory is also one of them?! Can you ONLY get Artifact of Elder by entering the Pirate Labs backwards? It's probably easier than scaling Ruined Courtyard and Observatory would be anyway...

Quote:

also i forgot to mention that you don't actually have to do that long annoying wallcrawl across magmoor anymore. you can just activate floaty jump in workstation (miles posted about it in the research topic), get oob in burning trail, get floaty jump, and then do geo core inbounds. this is way easier and a lot more efficient.

Oh yeah, I remeber having read this way before I started 21%, so I must have forgotten about it. Well, I've done it a second time without any problems, it's just that you've to float/ ather jump (which I can't seem to learn correctly) for sooo long. Probably I'll use it in a potential Hard Mode walkthrough some time.

So, I'm on Phendrana clean-up now (saved at Phendrana Shorelines with 18%) and there're a few options now.

I've been looking into Ice Ruins West w/ AR (i.e. Moonjump) and there seems to be a ledge that could perhaps be HBJ onto. You'd do the HBJ from the platform where the Wave Beam door is and hopefully eventually get up on the same "building" that you HBJ onto in Miles' 21% Demonstration Part 20. However, this only seems to be possible, if you could get the invisible, strangely-shaped wall around the big part of a rock near the Wave Beam door to increase your height gained by the unmorph at the peak of the jump.

This seems about possible at least, but I'm not sure if it'd be easier to practice the UBJ Miles did in his Demonstration Part 20...
On m2k2 it says that UBJ provide more height than HBJ when there's no wall you can press yourself against, so I take it as a HBJ isn't viable for getting onto that "building" Miles UBJ'ed onto? I've gotten some very good HBJ but never made it onto it (stupid invisible wall extending the ledges). Is this Bomb Jump actually hard? It's the SW Miles got into in the shortest time, out of those 3 he used, so I take it as (at least with something you've got know about it), this SW should be doable, but who knows how many hours and days I'd be needing...

Then again, there's this SW T3 found, that seems very, very random but quite easy compard to the Ice Ruins West SW. Problem here: how can I get to the Ice Beam door in the Elevator room connecting the path to Thardus with the path to Frozen Pike? Paraxade did it, and "...it was easier than I thought", but there were some problems with this room as well. Kip found out that you can reach and land and actually STAY on a invisible ledge (I guess it's really tiny and specific as I looked into with Moonjump) and no very hard Bomb Jumps at all were involved to scale this room. If I could do this, I could just Save in the Frost Cave Savestation and try to get into the SW in Frost Cave, right?

On the other hand, there's also the possiblity of getting Phendrana's Edge done. And believe me, that can't be the hardest room in 21%, right?! I mean, I'm already fairly consistent at everything but the insanely strange DBJ onto the Grapple Point, that one is really hard and specific it seems, but the Dash onto the branch is very easy with pausing-abuse and I got the hang of the strange Ghetto Jump onto the Ice Platform above the branch, so, I should get it sometime. Problem here would be to get out of the freaking water and up to the Wave Beam door every time I fall down in the water, which is harder than it sounds. Another problem would be to get to Phendrana's Edge itself, but IIRC, the only room  preventing me from making this feasible is said Elevator room I mentioned above, right? The rest of the rooms up to Phendrana's Edge is no problem without Space Jump Boots, right?
I mean, until you're in the Elevator room, you've got to cross Twin Fires Tunnel WHEN COMING FROM THE TALLON ELEVATOR, but that's possible w/out SJB and w/out Gravity Suit by making a quite lagged DBJ.
If that isn't possible, however, I'd have to cross the Pirate Labs (including Observatory which I'm not sure if it's possible while skipping Boost Ball as well) and scale Ruined Courtyard (mainly this annoying UBJ) to have access to the Pirate Labs at first place. But as long as Twin Fires Tunnel and Transport to Magmoor Caverns South can be cleared under 21% conditions, I'm fairly sure I'll eventually get the Artifact of Ghost in-bounds.

Also, what about the Artifact of Elder? There're a few rooms that are impossible to scale under 21% conditions, Ore Processing is one of them, making for a certain route you've got to clear the Phazon Mines. I think Observatory is also one of them?! Can you ONLY get Artifact of Elder by entering the Pirate Labs backwards? It's probably easier than scaling Ruined Courtyard and Observatory would be anyway...

[quote]also i forgot to mention that you don't actually have to do that long annoying wallcrawl across magmoor anymore. you can just activate floaty jump in workstation (miles posted about it in the research topic), get oob in burning trail, get floaty jump, and then do geo core inbounds. this is way easier and a lot more efficient.[/quote]
Oh yeah, I remeber having read this way before I started 21%, so I must have forgotten about it. Well, I've done it a second time without any problems, it's just that you've to float/ ather jump (which I can't seem to learn correctly) for sooo long. Probably I'll use it in a potential Hard Mode walkthrough some time.

T3

2014-01-25 07:29:07 am

the best choice by far (imo) is to use the frost cave sw. wallcrawling across all of phendrana is REALLY annoying and doing phendrana's edge inbounds is... not recommended. just practice it over and over with space jump (so that you can quickly reload the room) until you get the hang of it. watch my video on it and copy the movements exactly and it shouldn't be that much a problem. also, you can't save in frost cave if you were to do this in an actual 21% file since that requires knocking down the stalactite which you'd need to actually get into the sw. you'll have to reload from the magmoor save instead.

if you find that getting into the secret world is too difficult then the next best thing would be to use the ice ruins west sw. i'm almost certain that bomb jumping oob from next to the wave door isn't possible so just do it the way miles does it in his demonstration. imo this bomb jump isn't very hard at all, though the wallcrawl is horrible.

phendrana's edge inbounds is very difficult and is probably the second hardest room for 21% (gth is harder) so i wouldn't recommend it. i'm assuming the reason why you don't find it so hard is because you likely have sj while practicing which makes a lot of the things in the room a ton easier (the ghetto off the branch isn't possible without sj).

going through the pirate labs isn't possible because of observatory. the way you enter that side of phendrana to get elder (if you're not wallcrawling) is to do a ubj from the ground onto a small ledge on the left side of the spider track, then from there l-jump to the top. finding the ledge is kind of annoying at first but once you find it the trick is pretty easy to do.

the best choice by far (imo) is to use the frost cave sw. wallcrawling across all of phendrana is REALLY annoying and doing phendrana's edge inbounds is... not recommended. just practice it over and over with space jump (so that you can quickly reload the room) until you get the hang of it. watch my video on it and copy the movements exactly and it shouldn't be that much a problem. also, you can't save in frost cave if you were to do this in an actual 21% file since that requires knocking down the stalactite which you'd need to actually get into the sw. you'll have to reload from the magmoor save instead.

if you find that getting into the secret world is too difficult then the next best thing would be to use the ice ruins west sw. i'm almost certain that bomb jumping oob from next to the wave door isn't possible so just do it the way miles does it in his demonstration. imo this bomb jump isn't very hard at all, though the wallcrawl is horrible.

phendrana's edge inbounds is very difficult and is probably the second hardest room for 21% (gth is harder) so i wouldn't recommend it. i'm assuming the reason why you don't find it so hard is because you likely have sj while practicing which makes a lot of the things in the room a ton easier (the ghetto off the branch isn't possible without sj).

going through the pirate labs isn't possible because of observatory. the way you enter that side of phendrana to get elder (if you're not wallcrawling) is to do a ubj from the ground onto a small ledge on the left side of the spider track, then from there l-jump to the top. finding the ledge is kind of annoying at first but once you find it the trick is pretty easy to do.

Daryoshi

2014-01-25 12:46:40 pm

loving low%

Did you mean on the RIGHT of the Spider Track, as in this video? If you are about to get up to the Ice Beam door form below, you would aim for the RIGHT side of the Spider Ball track. I'm gonna test on the right side of the Spider Track, as shown in the video.

Quote:

also, you can't save in frost cave if you were to do this in an actual 21% file since that requires knocking down the stalactite which you'd need to actually get into the sw. you'll have to reload from the magmoor save instead.

Wow, so, erm, I'd have to do the Elevator to Magmoor Caverns South again, everytime I get killed by the Hunter Metroid...

Quote:

imo this bomb jump isn't very hard at all, though the wallcrawl is horrible.

I'm just having problems with the last 2 bombs of a UBJ to work. I'm somewhat consistent at HBJ, but from the timing in his video it seems like you'd have to place the 2 last bombs at the almost top and at the very top and placing the 3rd last bomb JUST after the 4th last bomb explodes (JUST after the counter resets, there's almost no way to place it earlier, only a few frames, it's really tight).

Quote:

phendrana's edge inbounds is very difficult and is probably the second hardest room for 21% (gth is harder) so i wouldn't recommend it. i'm assuming the reason why you don't find it so hard is because you likely have sj while practicing which makes a lot of the things in the room a ton easier (the ghetto off the branch isn't possible without sj).

For sure it's REALLY hard, but it seems doable. And for the Ghetto Jump; I'm sure it's actually possible! I did experiment on a file with SJB today and I made it a bunch of times, but I've to admit that's a really weird Ghetto Jump. As for the experimenting with SJB, it was yesterday that I spend 1.5 hours in Phendrana's Edge without SJB, but with Moonjump, and I got the Dash onto the branch and the Ghetto Jump way more often than today without Moon Jump (I guess I held B for too long accidentally, which activated Moon Jump giving me extra height by an amount so that I didn't notice it). The DBJ to the Ice Platform where you DBJ onto the Grapple Point is though, but fairly consistently doable with the right technique.

BUT: The DBJ onto the Grapple Point itself is a puzzle to me. I only got it a few times with Moonjump and this DBJ is likely to kill all my chances of getting Phendrana's Edge in-bounds in less than many, many hours. The dash off of the floating "enemy" is rather easy if you just make sure you bend it backwards. That being said, it's just a matter of time.
But just to be sure: The height gained by a Ghetto Jump is the same regardless if you are in possession of SJB or not? And the 1st jump with SJB is the exactly same height/ distance/ rotation with and without the SJB upgarde in your possession, right? Because if that Ghetto Jump really wouldn't be possible in 21%, I probably would abandon the idea to get Phendrana's Edge in-bounds.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBAMBBoUV24[/url]
Did you mean on the RIGHT of the Spider Track, as in this video? If you are about to get up to the Ice Beam door form below, you would aim for the RIGHT side of the Spider Ball track. I'm gonna test on the right side of the Spider Track, as shown in the video.

[quote]also, you can't save in frost cave if you were to do this in an actual 21% file since that requires knocking down the stalactite which you'd need to actually get into the sw. you'll have to reload from the magmoor save instead.[/quote]
Wow, so, erm, I'd have to do the Elevator to Magmoor Caverns South again, everytime I get killed by the Hunter Metroid...

[quote]imo this bomb jump isn't very hard at all, though the wallcrawl is horrible.[/quote]
I'm just having problems with the last 2 bombs of a UBJ to work. I'm somewhat consistent at HBJ, but from the timing in his video it seems like you'd have to place the 2 last bombs at the almost top and at the very top and placing the 3rd last bomb JUST after the 4th last bomb explodes (JUST after the counter resets, there's almost no way to place it earlier, only a few frames, it's really tight).

[quote]phendrana's edge inbounds is very difficult and is probably the second hardest room for 21% (gth is harder) so i wouldn't recommend it. i'm assuming the reason why you don't find it so hard is because you likely have sj while practicing which makes a lot of the things in the room a ton easier (the ghetto off the branch isn't possible without sj).[/quote]

For sure it's REALLY hard, but it seems doable. And for the Ghetto Jump; I'm sure it's actually possible! I did experiment on a file with SJB today and I made it a bunch of times, but I've to admit that's a really weird Ghetto Jump. As for the experimenting with SJB, it was yesterday that I spend 1.5 hours in Phendrana's Edge without SJB, but with Moonjump, and I got the Dash onto the branch and the Ghetto Jump way more often than today without Moon Jump (I guess I held B for too long accidentally, which activated Moon Jump giving me extra height by an amount so that I didn't notice it). The DBJ to the Ice Platform where you DBJ onto the Grapple Point is though, but fairly consistently doable with the right technique.

BUT: The DBJ onto the Grapple Point itself is a puzzle to me. I only got it a few times with Moonjump and this DBJ is likely to kill all my chances of getting Phendrana's Edge in-bounds in less than many, many hours. The dash off of the floating "enemy" is rather easy if you just make sure you bend it backwards. That being said, it's just a matter of time.
But just to be sure: The height gained by a Ghetto Jump is the same regardless if you are in possession of SJB or not? And the 1st jump with SJB is the exactly same height/ distance/ rotation with and without the SJB upgarde in your possession, right? Because if that Ghetto Jump really wouldn't be possible in 21%, I probably would abandon the idea to get Phendrana's Edge in-bounds.

Baby Sheegoth

Edit history:

Baby Sheegoth: 2014-01-25 01:02:30 pm

2014-01-25 01:02:03 pm

The height gained by a Ghetto jump is the same, but the overall height of the jump is affected

Also I would argue Phendrana's Edge is harder than GTH

T3

2014-01-25 01:20:29 pm

Quote:

Did you mean on the RIGHT of the Spider Track, as in this video?

i mean the left side of the spider track.

Quote:

Wow, so, erm, I'd have to do the Elevator to Magmoor Caverns South again, everytime I get killed by the Hunter Metroid...

well... you'd get consistent with space jump first so that you wouldn't have to reset that often when you actually go for it.

Quote:

And the 1st jump with SJB is the exactly same height/ distance/ rotation with and without the SJB upgarde in your possession, right?

if you're talking about the dash to the branch, then no. the jump is much harder without sj, same goes for all jumps.

Quote:

Also I would argue Phendrana's Edge is harder than GTH

well i personally have never managed to climb gth inbounds before. the dbj off the spider track is nearly impossible, i've only ever managed to pull it off once ever.

MilesSMB

2014-01-25 01:41:45 pm

More specifically: Having Space Jump changes your upward speed cap, from 11.66... to 14. Normally you barely pass 11.66 with your first jump, but it makes a major difference for ghetto jumps, which give you a higher initial upward speed.

Baby Sheegoth

2014-01-26 03:33:31 am

also why it affects your unmorph

Daryoshi

2014-02-10 12:56:53 pm

loving low%

Quote:

Quote:
Also I would argue Phendrana's Edge is harder than GTH

well i personally have never managed to climb gth inbounds before. the dbj off the spider track is nearly impossible, i've only ever managed to pull it off once ever.

Do you mean the first BJ or the 2nd BJ on the spider track? smilingjack13 eventually got it with a 3BJ or something and petrie911's TAS demonstration showed a HBJ or UBJ because he didn't got a DBJ to work, even though it's a TAS! So you are referring to the 1st BJ, which is the seemingly easier...
I'm actually kinda glad that Geo Core isn't solved for 21%, because doing 21% in-bounds would make 21% so unbelievably much harder *TRUE overkill masochism*. Not "only" doing Phendrana's Edge and Great Tree Hall, no, you'd also have to do all of the Bomb Jumps in Geo Core with the spinners raised (aka alternate 22% (skipping SJB instead of Boost Ball), as Bartendorsparky's video compilation demonstrated). The BJ from the first platform to the 2nd platform in Geo Core is only possible with a laddered UBJ? C'mon!

And there we are at my questions focussing on Bomb Jumping and Moon Jumping. :P
I've started another file with no SJB, but a no SJB max% file. Everything was quite easy and the hardest parts are getting Plasma (w/ Floaty Jump :P), PPC and Frozen Pike. And of course Phazon Core but that's about equal to PPC or Frozen Pike in difficulty, IMO. I'm on 96% now, lacking only the TWO Missile Expansions in Root Cave and Arbor Chamber (at the upper part of Root Cave).

Can you get from the second to the third invisible platform with a very well executed DBJ (without SJB in possession)? I always slip off. It's the height that I'm lacking of when using a DBJ. On the other hand, while using a UBJ, I can barely reach the platform, but get enough height. I've done the DBJ a couple of times while in possession of SJB on another file, but it's tight even with SJB in possession. The rest of getting the 2 Missile Expansions shouldn't be a problem; quite tight Combat Dashes are enough to clear the gap to the last invisilbe platform (then simply DBJ to the first Missile Expansion) and then another Combat Dash will lead you to the Plasma Beam door... If only that gap between the 2nd and 3rd invisible platform could be cleared without having to do a LADDERED UBJ...

About having Moon Jump activated; you just have to press A or/and L the whole time you're jumping/unmorphing, and that makes the deal, right? I don't want to have an "automatically" increased height on the first jump... I noticed that because I jumped a bit higher when simple jumping (without Ghetto Jumping invloved) compared to single jumping with L being pressed for the whole jump (i.e. as well press and keep holding L before pressing B in order to jump). Why is that? I don't want Moon Jump to affect anything that shouldn't be affected by a code that enables me to get up way faster than without! Confused

Also, can you explain me more about the Morph Ball physics? I'd like to understand "more" about how you BJ and especially learning to being able to estimate while playing without SJB which gap can be cleared with a DBJ and which can not, i.e. need a UBJ or something else. For example, the last BJ in Phazon Core is possible with a flawlessly executed DBJ, but, on the other hand, it's really not so hard because you can't mess up too much when doing a DBJ, as long as you don't have to balance (aka 21% GTH). It's just that I never saw any application for a laddered UBJ except for the one Sparky executed back in the days when the community was eagerly working on solving 21% Geothermal Core in-bounds. Could it be that I'd have to use a laddered UBJ for the gap between the 2nd and 3rd invisible ledge in Root Cave on my no SJB max% file, becuase a DBJ seems to not give me enough height and a UBJ seems to not give me enough distance... ?

T3, I know about your video demonstrating how to get into the Tallon Canyon SW without SJB, but I'd rather just grab those 2 Missile Expanions in-bounds, because I only went OoB for Plasma Beam and got every other item using some cool, probably up to now new strats. I didn't even have to get Infinite Speed! :-) But if it's not possible...

Last question: Can someone also teach me how having SJB in possession affects EVERYTHING you do that has something to do with Dashing, Jumping or Bomb Jumping? Is there anything that's not affected?

Quote:

done with space jump. both dashes should be possible without having it though.

THIS. How were you so sure that those dashes would also work without SJB in your possession? I mean, those are pretty tight, aren't they?!

[quote]Quote:
Also I would argue Phendrana's Edge is harder than GTH

well i personally have never managed to climb gth inbounds before. the dbj off the spider track is nearly impossible, i've only ever managed to pull it off once ever.[/quote]
Do you mean the first BJ or the 2nd BJ on the spider track? smilingjack13 eventually got it with a 3BJ or something and petrie911's TAS demonstration showed a HBJ or UBJ because he didn't got a DBJ to work, even though it's a TAS! So you are referring to the 1st BJ, which is the seemingly easier...
I'm actually kinda glad that Geo Core isn't solved for 21%, because doing 21% in-bounds would make 21% so unbelievably much harder *TRUE overkill masochism*. Not "only" doing Phendrana's Edge and Great Tree Hall, no, you'd also have to do all of the Bomb Jumps in Geo Core with the spinners raised (aka alternate 22% (skipping SJB instead of Boost Ball), as Bartendorsparky's video compilation demonstrated). The BJ from the first platform to the 2nd platform in Geo Core is only possible with a laddered UBJ? C'mon!

And there we are at my questions focussing on Bomb Jumping and Moon Jumping. :P
I've started another file with no SJB, but a no SJB max% file. Everything was quite easy and the hardest parts are getting Plasma (w/ Floaty Jump :P), PPC and Frozen Pike. And of course Phazon Core but that's about equal to PPC or Frozen Pike in difficulty, IMO. I'm on 96% now, lacking only the TWO Missile Expansions in Root Cave and Arbor Chamber (at the upper part of Root Cave).

Can you get from the second to the third invisible platform with a very well executed DBJ (without SJB in possession)? I always slip off. It's the height that I'm lacking of when using a DBJ. On the other hand, while using a UBJ, I can barely reach the platform, but get enough height. I've done the DBJ a couple of times while in possession of SJB on another file, but it's tight even with SJB in possession. The rest of getting the 2 Missile Expansions shouldn't be a problem; quite tight Combat Dashes are enough to clear the gap to the last invisilbe platform (then simply DBJ to the first Missile Expansion) and then another Combat Dash will lead you to the Plasma Beam door... If only that gap between the 2nd and 3rd invisible platform could be cleared without having to do a [b][i]LADDERED[/i][/b] UBJ...

About having Moon Jump activated; you just have to press A or/and L the whole time you're jumping/unmorphing, and that makes the deal, right? I don't want to have an "automatically" increased height on the first jump... I noticed that because I jumped a bit higher when simple jumping (without Ghetto Jumping invloved) compared to single jumping with L being pressed for the whole jump (i.e. as well press and keep holding L before pressing B in order to jump). Why is that? I don't want Moon Jump to affect anything that shouldn't be affected by a code that enables me to get up way faster than without! :???:

Also, can you explain me more about the Morph Ball physics? I'd like to understand "more" about how you BJ and especially learning to being able to estimate while playing without SJB which gap can be cleared with a DBJ and which can not, i.e. need a UBJ or something else. For example, the last BJ in Phazon Core is possible with a flawlessly executed DBJ, but, on the other hand, it's really not so hard because you can't mess up too much when doing a DBJ, as long as you don't have to balance (aka 21% GTH). It's just that I never saw any application for a laddered UBJ except for the one Sparky executed back in the days when the community was eagerly working on solving 21% Geothermal Core in-bounds. Could it be that I'd have to use a laddered UBJ for the gap between the 2nd and 3rd invisible ledge in Root Cave on my no SJB max% file, becuase a DBJ seems to not give me enough height and a UBJ seems to not give me enough distance... ?

T3, I know about your video demonstrating how to get into the Tallon Canyon SW without SJB, but I'd rather just grab those 2 Missile Expanions in-bounds, because I only went OoB for Plasma Beam and got every other item using some cool, probably up to now new strats. I didn't even have to get Infinite Speed! :-) But if it's not possible...

Last question: Can someone also teach me how having SJB in possession affects EVERYTHING you do that has something to do with Dashing, Jumping or Bomb Jumping? Is there anything that's not affected?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY9XusTmhhk

[quote]done with space jump. both dashes should be possible without having it though.[/quote]

THIS. How were you so sure that those dashes would also work without SJB in your possession? I mean, those are pretty tight, aren't they?!

T3

2014-02-10 01:51:45 pm

Quote:

Do you mean the first BJ or the 2nd BJ on the spider track?

first bomb jump. balancing on the spider track is very, very difficult.

Quote:

I'm actually kinda glad that Geo Core isn't solved for 21%, because doing 21% in-bounds would make 21% so unbelievably much harder *TRUE overkill masochism*.

how would it make 21% harder? nobody would be forcing you to do geo core in-bounds...

about route cave without sj, i've personally never tried it so i have no idea. the tallon canyon sw is proven to work so i'd just use that.

about dbj vs hbj laddered, hbj laddered probably theoretically gives more distance (with tas bomb jumping) but i've found that dbj'ing is better. the phazon core bomb jump is much easier imo using a dbj instead of a ubj and bomb jumping from spinner 1 -> spinner 2 the same (never managed to make it with the ubj though i have with a dbj).

about the 2 mqa dashes, i knew the first dash would be possible because you have more than enough distance to make it (you have to physically stop yourself with the wall), and i knew the second dash was possible because it's pretty much the same dash as in a regular 21%.

miles could probably tell you about what exactly is affected by having sj.

[quote]Do you mean the first BJ or the 2nd BJ on the spider track?[/quote]
first bomb jump. balancing on the spider track is very, very difficult.

[quote]I'm actually kinda glad that Geo Core isn't solved for 21%, because doing 21% in-bounds would make 21% so unbelievably much harder *TRUE overkill masochism*.[/quote]
how would it make 21% harder? nobody would be forcing you to do geo core in-bounds...

about route cave without sj, i've personally never tried it so i have no idea. the tallon canyon sw is proven to work so i'd just use that.

about dbj vs hbj laddered, hbj laddered probably theoretically gives more distance (with tas bomb jumping) but i've found that dbj'ing is better. the phazon core bomb jump is much easier imo using a dbj instead of a ubj and bomb jumping from spinner 1 -> spinner 2 the same (never managed to make it with the ubj though i have with a dbj).

about the 2 mqa dashes, i knew the first dash would be possible because you have more than enough distance to make it (you have to physically stop yourself with the wall), and i knew the second dash was possible because it's pretty much the same dash as in a regular 21%.

miles could probably tell you about what exactly is affected by having sj.

Daryoshi

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2014-02-10 05:30:45 pm

Daryoshi: 2014-02-10 05:28:28 pm

Daryoshi: 2014-02-10 05:28:09 pm

2014-02-10 05:26:34 pm

loving low%

Quote:

Quote:
I'm actually kinda glad that Geo Core isn't solved for 21%, because doing 21% in-bounds would make 21% so unbelievably much harder *TRUE overkill masochism*.

how would it make 21% harder? nobody would be forcing you to do geo core in-bounds...

Oh, yeah, you're right, of course, but I just didn't have enough time to go through my text and I'm still learning English, which is why many statements are ambiguous (also it'd make my texts even longer if I explicated everything (even more than I already do)). ;-)
I just meant it'd THEN be possible to do 21% FULLY in-bounds without EVER going to bypass anything with wallcrawling. I.e. one could take the challenge to do an in-bounds 21% i,e, doing not only the "normal" requirements for a 21% which are already impressively hard, but also doing Great Tree Hall AND Phendrana's Edge AND Geothermal Core (SOMEHOW - NOT BEING POSSIBLE AT ALL, but it's solved with Boost Ball and only skipping SJB; there's a video in the" 21% topic" that Bartendorsparky posted/ compiled; enabling a 22% alternative skipping SJb instead of Boost Ball), in-bounds. Those 3 rooms are in another league than any other room in 21% and doing everything in only ONE of those 3 rooms CONSECUTIVELY could take longer than just doing a 21% with SW-abuse. Those 3 rooms are HELL. I looked into every of those 3 rooms and will probably pull those off on an emulator (using savestates or even TAS them, sometime (when I get the instruments), but I'm already really excited about how hard they will be even with savestates after every little part...

Quote:

about route cave without sj, i've personally never tried it so i have no idea. the tallon canyon sw is proven to work so i'd just use that.

There's something you haven't yet tried; you have no experience with a certain room under certain conditions?! You?! :P
So, am I the only one who has ever done a no SJB max% playthrough? Or a 28% natural low% (except for skipping SJB?) I think "my" 28% would actually be easier than 23% to do SS, because you skip Charge Beam for 23% and that sucks for SS... I might even try 28% SS because it seems ACTUALLY runnable. :-) Is anyone interested in that? It took me 3:58 to finish it segmented though, but it was a playthrough and not speedrun, so I might put effort into it. Perhaps...

Okay, I'll look into the in-bounds method for the Missile Expansions in Root Cave again, with the knowledge that the gap between the 1st and 2nd spinner in Geo Core can be cleared with a DBJ. Who would have thought that?! But I agree on the DBJ in Phazon Core being... "very doable" and definetly NOT making Phazon Core to one of the hardest rooms for 21%. I think it's the most overrated room for 21%. Well, if you want to clear the gap between the 3 last platforms with UBJs instead of well-laddered DBJ, it might be another story, but I had no problems with Phazon Core using just DBJs for the platforms.

After analyzing the video of yours for the Tallon Canyon SW under 21% conditions, it seems pretty doable, except if the Combat Dash (or the initial UBJ) is harder than it seems. Even if I got those two Missile Expansion, I'd prefer to get them in-bounds. I wanted to finish a no SJB playthrough with every item that's possible to acquire and with in-bounds method if possible. And even Infinite Speed would have been preferred over using SW because I wanted to find solutions to things. I LOVE SW's, don't get me wrong; they open up more possibilities, but I still prefer in-bounds if it's possible and actually feasible, it's just that GTH and Phendrana's Edge definetly aren't feasible for me in a plausible time... But Miles used SW's to bypass those 2 rooms even in his 3:50 so I think it's legit. :P

Quote:

about the 2 mqa dashes, i knew the first dash would be possible because you have more than enough distance to make it (you have to physically stop yourself with the wall), and i knew the second dash was possible because it's pretty much the same dash as in a regular 21%.

Well... that explains it. Still, that statement of yours about the 21% MQA alternative we came up with confused me later, as you were saying the dash onto the tree/ branch in Phendrana's Edge is even harder without the SJB in your possession. After that MQA statement I just thought it then wouldn't matter. Oh stupid me confusing everyone (including me) since I started 21%.

[quote]Quote:
I'm actually kinda glad that Geo Core isn't solved for 21%, because doing 21% in-bounds would make 21% so unbelievably much harder *TRUE overkill masochism*.

how would it make 21% harder? nobody would be forcing you to do geo core in-bounds...
[/quote]

Oh, yeah, you're right, of course, but I just didn't have enough time to go through my text and I'm still learning English, which is why many statements are ambiguous (also it'd make my texts even longer if I explicated everything (even more than I already do)). ;-)
I just meant it'd THEN be possible to do 21% FULLY in-bounds without EVER going to bypass anything with wallcrawling. I.e. one could take the challenge to do an in-bounds 21% i,e, doing not only the "normal" requirements for a 21% which are already impressively hard, but also doing [b]Great Tree Hall AND Phendrana's Edge AND Geothermal Core[/b] (SOMEHOW - NOT BEING POSSIBLE AT ALL, but it's solved with Boost Ball and only skipping SJB; there's a video in the" 21% topic" that Bartendorsparky posted/ compiled; enabling a 22% alternative skipping SJb instead of Boost Ball), in-bounds. Those 3 rooms are in another league than any other room in 21% and doing everything in only ONE of those 3 rooms CONSECUTIVELY could take longer than just doing a 21% with SW-abuse. Those 3 rooms are HELL. I looked into every of those 3 rooms and will probably pull those off on an emulator (using savestates or even TAS them, sometime (when I get the instruments), but I'm already really excited about how hard they will be even with savestates after every little part...

[quote]about route cave without sj, i've personally never tried it so i have no idea. the tallon canyon sw is proven to work so i'd just use that.[/quote]

There's something you haven't yet tried; you have no experience with a certain room under certain conditions?! You?! :P
So, am I the only one who has ever done a no SJB max% playthrough? Or a 28% natural low% (except for skipping SJB?) I think "my" 28% would actually be easier than 23% to do SS, because you skip Charge Beam for 23% and that sucks for SS... I might even try 28% SS because it seems ACTUALLY runnable. :-) Is anyone interested in that? It took me 3:58 to finish it segmented though, but it was a playthrough and not speedrun, so I might put effort into it. Perhaps...

Okay, I'll look into the in-bounds method for the Missile Expansions in Root Cave again, with the knowledge that the gap between the 1st and 2nd spinner in Geo Core can be cleared with a DBJ. Who would have thought that?! But I agree on the DBJ in Phazon Core being... "very doable" and definetly NOT making Phazon Core to one of the hardest rooms for 21%. I think it's the most overrated room for 21%. Well, if you want to clear the gap between the 3 last platforms with UBJs instead of well-laddered DBJ, it might be another story, but I had no problems with Phazon Core using just DBJs for the platforms.

After analyzing the video of yours for the Tallon Canyon SW under 21% conditions, it seems pretty doable, except if the Combat Dash (or the initial UBJ) is harder than it seems. Even if I got those two Missile Expansion, I'd prefer to get them in-bounds. I wanted to finish a no SJB playthrough with every item that's possible to acquire and with in-bounds method if possible. And even Infinite Speed would have been preferred over using SW because I wanted to find solutions to things. I LOVE SW's, don't get me wrong; they open up more possibilities, but I still prefer in-bounds if it's possible and actually feasible, it's just that GTH and Phendrana's Edge definetly aren't feasible for me in a plausible time... But Miles used SW's to bypass those 2 rooms even in his 3:50 so I think it's legit. :P

[quote]about the 2 mqa dashes, i knew the first dash would be possible because you have more than enough distance to make it (you have to physically stop yourself with the wall), and i knew the second dash was possible because it's pretty much the same dash as in a regular 21%.[/quote]

Well... that explains it. Still, that statement of yours about the 21% MQA alternative we came up with confused me later, as you were saying the dash onto the tree/ branch in Phendrana's Edge is even harder without the SJB in your possession. After that MQA statement I just thought it then wouldn't matter. Oh stupid me confusing everyone (including me) since I started 21%.

metroidmania

2014-02-20 06:04:18 pm

Any advice on how to do the plasma trooper dash in metroid quarantine B? Where do I stand and what buttons do I press/hold while doing the dash? I don't understand how to curve the first part.

Also any advice on doing early newborn would be appreciated.

Thanks

Daryoshi

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2014-02-27 08:51:25 am

2014-02-27 08:50:44 am

loving low%

Quote:

Any advice on how to do the plasma trooper dash in metroid quarantine B? Where do I stand and what buttons do I press/hold while doing the dash? I don't understand how to curve the first part.

It's important to get to the spot where you dash as soon as possible (before the trooper starts moving) and dash from the middle or so. It's a weird dash but you'll get more consistent if you try it and then it's not too hard to do somewhat consistent.

Quote:

Also any advice on doing early newborn would be appreciated.

Boost just before the block you just blow up is gone. You save a very little amount of time but multiplicate that with the amount of little rocks and you have the key to get it. Not getting nervous and just try is also important. There's also the variant of clearing the first few rocks and get health from the Metroids in either Fungal Hall A or Fungal Hall B, but don't get too far into FHA/ FHB because that would load the next room after having (temporarily) erased (= dumped) Phazon Mining Tunnel (where you want to acquire the Artifact).

-----

QUESTION/ PROBLEM:

I'm having REAL trouble fighting the Wave Troopers in Mine Security Station (in the Artifact of Warrior part) in HARD 22%. I spent almost more time on that part already than on Geothermal Core (in-bounds), however, the Geo Core part took me only 3 hours (compared with about 12 for the first time ever). About the health refills from the Wave Troopers: What can you expect to get from them? There has never been a 100 energy refill drop and I've killed exactly 1 or even exactly 2 of them MANY times already, just not all 3 altogether. Is it really so rare to get a 100 energy refill drop? I've never gotten one. In THREE hours. And those bastards really are A LOT harder on HARD mode. A LOT. I can get it on NORMAL several times out of 10 times, but there I got more lucky w/ refill drops, APPARENTLY.
Anyway; any help would be appreciated and if you could ENSURE me that it's ACTUALLY a lot harder than on NORMAL. ;-)

[quote]Any advice on how to do the plasma trooper dash in metroid quarantine B? Where do I stand and what buttons do I press/hold while doing the dash? I don't understand how to curve the first part.[/quote] It's important to get to the spot where you dash as soon as possible (before the trooper starts moving) and dash from the middle or so. It's a weird dash but you'll get more consistent if you try it and then it's not too hard to do somewhat consistent.

[quote]Also any advice on doing early newborn would be appreciated.[/quote]
Boost just before the block you just blow up is gone. You save a very little amount of time but multiplicate that with the amount of little rocks and you have the key to get it. Not getting nervous and just try is also important. There's also the variant of clearing the first few rocks and get health from the Metroids in either Fungal Hall A or Fungal Hall B, but don't get too far into FHA/ FHB because that would load the next room after having (temporarily) erased (= dumped) Phazon Mining Tunnel (where you want to acquire the Artifact).

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[color="red"][b]QUESTION/ PROBLEM:[/b][/color]

I'm having REAL trouble fighting the Wave Troopers in Mine Security Station (in the Artifact of Warrior part) in HARD 22%. I spent almost more time on that part already than on Geothermal Core (in-bounds), however, the Geo Core part took me only 3 hours (compared with about 12 for the first time ever). About the health refills from the Wave Troopers: What can you expect to get from them? There has never been a 100 energy refill drop and I've killed exactly 1 or even exactly 2 of them MANY times already, just not all 3 altogether. Is it really so rare to get a 100 energy refill drop? I've never gotten one. In THREE hours. And those bastards really are A LOT harder on HARD mode. A LOT. I can get it on NORMAL several times out of 10 times, but there I got more lucky w/ refill drops, APPARENTLY.
Anyway; any help would be appreciated and if you could ENSURE me that it's ACTUALLY a lot harder than on NORMAL. ;-)

StefanvanDijke

Edit history:

StefanvanDijke: 2014-02-27 10:19:00 am

2014-02-27 10:16:30 am

Check out smilingjacks 22 % hard run if you didn't already. A very impressive and insanely high skilled run. Check his comments as well, I remember he wrote something about that segment since it was one of the (if not the) hardest segments of his run.

oh right, and don't forget to go back and safe right after you have beaten the wafe troopers. There is no need to complete the entire segment as you would normally do

Daryoshi

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2014-02-28 08:34:30 pm

Daryoshi: 2014-02-27 10:44:40 am

Daryoshi: 2014-02-27 10:43:07 am

Daryoshi: 2014-02-27 10:38:00 am

Daryoshi: 2014-02-27 10:37:37 am

2014-02-27 10:37:03 am

loving low%

Thanks!

Quote:

Check out smilingjacks 22 % hard run if you didn't already. A very impressive and insanely high skilled run. Check his comments as well, I remember he wrote something about that segment since it was one of the (if not the) hardest segments of his run.

It's all that I found. There are NO comments for each SEPARATE segment, right? There's just a description for the whole run I can find. From the SDA entry:
If you're wondering how long this run took me, it took almost 8 months. However, all of that was not solid playing time. I did take some long breaks throughout that period. The average segment took me two days or so to do. A handful of the tougher segments took me about a week. The two segments that took an extremely long time were #5 and #11. Those are definitely the two best in my opinion. Segment 11 was brutal, because surviving a fast wave pirate battle was very difficult. Then, even if I did get past the battle, the segment was just starting. There were still tons of tricks and enemies after that point, and not dying was the biggest challenge. This segment frustrated me so much that I did single segment 22% to cool off. Segment 5 was a huge pain just because of its immense length and all the lucky factors that can repeatedly screw you over. Segment 8, Geo Core, also took a while, so it's worth mentioning. We all know how rare the bomb slot stall is.

Well, his segment 11 is insanely brutal, indeed. I watched the battle a couple of times and it seems to be a good strategy to fight them as soon as possible. But when I TRY to rapidly knock them out and do the shoot-hide-shoot-hide tactic, they won't stand there and always chase after me and force me to go down to where the Flamethrower is. What's the best tactic? It just seems that Smilingjack's tactic is the fastest and the most reliable, as if it was the best way to fight them as fast as possible. Hmm...

Quote:

oh right, and don't forget to go back and safe right after you have beaten the wafe troopers. There is no need to complete the entire segment as you would normally do

But then there will be some Ice Troopers and Wave Troopers in this room which is not very easy to get through, but there're no door locks then, right? Hm, I'll probably save after that. Thanks for bringing up that idea.

Thanks!

[quote]Check out smilingjacks 22 % hard run if you didn't already. A very impressive and insanely high skilled run. Check his comments as well, I remember he wrote something about that segment since it was one of the (if not the) hardest segments of his run.[/quote]

It's all that I found. There are NO comments for each SEPARATE segment, right? There's just a description for the whole run I can find. [color="blue"]From the SDA entry:
[/color] If you're wondering how long this run took me, it took almost 8 months. However, all of that was not solid playing time. I did take some long breaks throughout that period. The average segment took me two days or so to do. A handful of the tougher segments took me about a week. The two segments that took an extremely long time were #5 and #11. Those are definitely the two best in my opinion. [color="blue"]Segment 11 was brutal, because surviving a fast wave pirate battle was very difficult. Then, even if I did get past the battle, the segment was just starting. There were still tons of tricks and enemies after that point, and not dying was the biggest challenge. This segment frustrated me so much that I did single segment 22% to cool off.[/color] Segment 5 was a huge pain just because of its immense length and all the lucky factors that can repeatedly screw you over. Segment 8, Geo Core, also took a while, so it's worth mentioning. We all know how rare the bomb slot stall is.

Well, his segment 11 is insanely brutal, indeed. I watched the battle a couple of times and it seems to be a good strategy to fight them as soon as possible. But when I TRY to rapidly knock them out and do the shoot-hide-shoot-hide tactic, they won't stand there and always chase after me and force me to go down to where the Flamethrower is. What's the best tactic? It just seems that Smilingjack's tactic is the fastest and the most reliable, as if it was the best way to fight them as fast as possible. Hmm...

[quote]oh right, and don't forget to go back and safe right after you have beaten the wafe troopers. There is no need to complete the entire segment as you would normally do[/quote]
But then there will be some Ice Troopers and Wave Troopers in this room which is not very easy to get through, but there're no door locks then, right? Hm, I'll probably save after that. Thanks for bringing up that idea.

StefanvanDijke

Edit history:

StefanvanDijke: 2014-02-28 09:24:43 am

2014-02-28 09:23:04 am

Yes, no more doorlocks so you should be fine most of the time when going through the room a second time. I wouldn't risk it to continue just to die from something silly and having to redo the wave pirate fight.

I can't remember much about this fight on hard mode. All I know is that when the troopers get close to you, you start backing of. You can also use the wall at the bottom of the slope as protection and shoot the pirates from there while they are making there way down.