The "I need help" Topic

2013-12-20 04:48:32 pm

100% is completely different. you don't do early wild at all.

Basically, the 100% routes are:

No IBBF -
IBBF -

The main risky trick is early newborn, but you don't have to do that; you can easily just backtrack and get artifact of newborn after getting phazon suit, and it won't really affect the overall route

Odylg

Edit history:

Odylg: 2013-12-21 12:41:23 am

Odylg: 2013-12-21 12:39:05 am

2013-12-21 12:37:54 am

I run this here hotel of an evening

Quote from kirbymastah:

early sun is really not runkilling at all, as long as you know what you're doing :P Once you know how to do it, it's easy.

it can be a run killer with a "weak" gamecube. i used to be able to do it no problem, one boost for sun and one in shorelines to avoid falling in the water. nowadays my cube likes to crash on the second boost. even the first sometimes. and trust me, i know how to do it

Glitch15

2013-12-21 01:59:34 am

I use a Wii anyways.

Daryoshi

2013-12-21 03:57:06 am

loving low%

Well, Odylg, that was new to me, but Flickerball just AIN'T secure enough to use in the beginners route anyway, since you can easily lose time by setting it up and then, as you mentioned, the game can crash. I know it's not that hard to get early SUN fast enough to save time compared with the Magmoor backtrack-route, however, I prefered to stick to the backtrack-route through Magmoor anyway.
I was just describing which tricks/ sequence breaks, run-killing or not, I avoided in my SS any% 1:19 (which uses the safe route) anyway.

Quote:

I use a Wii anyways.

Very good idea, in fact. :-)

kirbymastah

2013-12-21 09:37:23 am

Early sun has never crashed for me, except when I do something stupid like unmorph early and activate light show. I guess playing on the actual GC console would make a difference? :P

Glitch15

2013-12-21 11:39:05 am

First and only time I got the infinite speed to work, I unmorphed early because I didn't know anything would happen. Needless to say, I wouldn't do that again. Was a lot of pretty lights, though.

kirbymastah

2013-12-21 12:24:49 pm

Yeah, if you want to do early sun, there're a few visual cues to set it up (though I'm assuming you have them if you got ISG to work). But make sure that the wavebeam door is shot before starting ISG, or else you're screwed.

Glitch15

2013-12-21 09:57:20 pm

Actually it was just pure luck that I got the IS to work... I know what it looks like when it is working, but I have no idea where I'm suppose to stand/where I'm suppose to be looking at, etc. Does the Early Sun route skip that bomb jump to get over the boost gate to go to Phazon Mines? Cause that is by far the hardest trick I've attempted, other then IBBF. I still want to learn the bomb jump, I just want to get a run completed like now.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-12-21 11:37:43 pm

2013-12-21 11:37:30 pm

There's pretty much no reasonable any% route that skips the gate skip, so you'll have to deal with it :P I know how much it sucks lol, my (terrible) PB lost 2.5 minutes to it...

Glitch15

2013-12-22 12:47:07 am

How am I suppose to do it effectively? I know you have to get to the far right corner, but am I suppose to like move in any way or something?

Metroid177

2013-12-22 12:49:06 am

Quote from kirbymastah:

There's pretty much no reasonable any% route that skips the gate skip, so you'll have to deal with it :P I know how much it sucks lol, my (terrible) PB lost 2.5 minutes to it...

Yes there is

Quote from Metroid177:
This is a new route that I came up with. I got 1:11 with this route; however, I put very little optimization into it, mostly because of my lack of patience when it comes to speedruning. Someone who is better at this game should test this out.

1. Frigate
2. Frigate Escape
3. SJF
4. Missile, ball, charge, bombs
5. Varia, Wild
6. Nature, boost, wave, Sun with IS, strenght, lifegiver, IS to get pb exp. in Magma Pool
7. Ice, X-ray, chozo
8. Go to ship
9. Head to plasma via tallon elevator
10. Elder, Spirit
11. Enter Mines backwards, main pbs
12. lower mines, Phazon Suit, newborn
13. Warrior, World
14. Go to ship
15. Truth, Ridley
16. Prime

This route is probably almost as fast as the current any percent route we are using, and is much easier and avoids thardus dash and the bomb jump over the gate in great tree hall.

[quote="kirbymastah"]There's pretty much no reasonable any% route that skips the gate skip, so you'll have to deal with it :P I know how much it sucks lol, my (terrible) PB lost 2.5 minutes to it...[/quote]

Yes there is

Quote from Metroid177:
  This is a new route that I came up with.  I got 1:11 with this route; however, I put very little optimization into it, mostly because of my lack of patience when it comes to speedruning.  Someone who is better at this game should test this out.

1.  Frigate
2.  Frigate Escape
3.  SJF
4.  Missile, ball, charge, bombs
5.  Varia, Wild
6.  Nature, boost, wave, Sun with IS, strenght, lifegiver, IS to get pb exp. in Magma Pool
7.  Ice, X-ray, chozo
8.  Go to ship
9.  Head to plasma via tallon elevator
10.  Elder, Spirit
11.  Enter Mines backwards, main pbs
12.  lower mines, Phazon Suit, newborn
13.  Warrior, World
14.  Go to ship
15.  Truth, Ridley
16.  Prime

This route is probably almost as fast as the current any percent route we are using, and is much easier and avoids thardus dash and the bomb jump over the gate in great tree hall.

Baby Sheegoth

2013-12-22 02:41:44 am

I can't see 2 IS's being faster than the current WR. it's possible to get X-ray without PB technically

Pawbdr

2013-12-22 03:38:38 am

Has anyone actually confirmed X-ray without PB's being possible? I feel like even with using IS somehow to get X-ray it would still make you reappear where you normally would because it's an expansion that has a video sequence with it. Even if you got it you would still have to travel back through the little boost ball ramp which would lead you right into the rock needing PB's. Unless I'm missing something with the new discoveries with floaty jump but I'm just not getting it I'm pretty sure X-ray without PB's was a milestone for 20% but please correct me if I'm wrong

Metroid177

2013-12-22 04:11:05 am

Quote from Baby Sheegoth:

I can't see 2 IS's being faster than the current WR. it's possible to get X-ray without PB technically

Well, I never said it would be faster, I said it would be "almost as fast." Yes, there are two IS spots, but the mines trip is shorter. The first IS is for the artifact, which doesn't lose much time over coming back to shorelines later. The only questionable IS is the one for the pb expansion. I was able to beat my personal best ss time easily with this route, and that had nothing to do with an improvement of my skill. I think it is still worth looking into, but my testing may be invalid because I am not the best at this game.

You may able to get x-ray without pb's now, but it would probably take longer then just IS ing the expansion.

Quote from Pawbdr:

Has anyone actually confirmed X-ray without PB's being possible? I feel like even with using IS somehow to get X-ray it would still make you reappear where you normally would because it's an expansion that has a video sequence with it. Even if you got it you would still have to travel back through the little boost ball ramp which would lead you right into the rock needing PB's. Unless I'm missing something with the new discoveries with floaty jump but I'm just not getting it I'm pretty sure X-ray without PB's was a milestone for 20% but please correct me if I'm wrong

Getting X-ray without pbs is just a matter of getting floaty jump, then wallcrawl into great tree chamber, fight the ghosts so the cap goes away, then grab x-ray and infinite bomb jump back out, and then use the Great tree chamber sw to leave.
And no, pbs will most likely never be skipped for low percent. Artifact of Spirit and getting through the lower mines and getting artifact of warrior are some huge obstacles.

[quote="Baby Sheegoth"]I can't see 2 IS's being faster than the current WR. it's possible to get X-ray without PB technically [/quote]

Well, I never said it would be faster, I said it would be "almost as fast."  Yes, there are two IS spots, but the mines trip is shorter.  The first IS is for the artifact, which doesn't lose much time over coming back to shorelines later.  The only questionable IS is the one for the pb expansion. I was able to beat my personal best ss time easily with this route, and that had nothing to do with an improvement of my skill.  I think it is still worth looking into, but my testing may be invalid because I am not the best at this game.

You may able to get x-ray without pb's now, but it would probably take longer then just IS ing the expansion.

[quote="Pawbdr"]Has anyone actually confirmed X-ray without PB's being possible? I feel like even with using IS somehow to get X-ray it would still make you reappear where you normally would because it's an expansion that has a video sequence with it. Even if you got it you would still have to travel back through the little boost ball ramp which would lead you right into the rock needing PB's. Unless I'm missing something with the new discoveries with floaty jump but I'm just not getting it I'm pretty sure X-ray without PB's was a milestone for 20% but please correct me if I'm wrong[/quote]

Getting X-ray without pbs is just a matter of getting floaty jump, then wallcrawl into great tree chamber, fight the ghosts so the cap goes away, then grab x-ray and infinite bomb jump back out, and then use the Great tree chamber sw to leave.  
And no, pbs will most likely never be skipped for low percent.  Artifact of Spirit and getting through the lower mines and getting artifact of warrior are some huge obstacles.

Glitch15

2013-12-22 06:04:09 am

Can someone explain to me/show me the IS in Magmoor to get the PB Expansion? I've never seen it or heard of it.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-22 08:19:35 am

2013-12-22 08:17:24 am

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

that'd be a neat route for PAL though >_>

getting warrior without PB's is not a huge obstacle, its just impossible, since the artifact doesnt exist before you use a PB on it.

Metroid177

2013-12-23 01:34:26 am

Quote from Glitch15:

Can someone explain to me/show me the IS in Magmoor to get the PB Expansion? I've never seen it or heard of it.

Glitch15

2013-12-23 09:35:51 am

Thanks for the video.

Is there a specific way that you are suppose to do the bombjump to do gate skip or is it just hard to do because of the fact that you roll down the slope if you don't hold slightly toward it?

Metroid177

2013-12-23 03:24:41 pm

Quote from Glitch15:

Thanks for the video.

Is there a specific way that you are suppose to do the bombjump to do gate skip or is it just hard to do because of the fact that you roll down the slope if you don't hold slightly toward it?

I am not really sure how to explain that bomb jump, it just came to me with practice. I'm not sure if there are any members who could provide you with concrete advice.

Baby Sheegoth

2013-12-23 07:08:03 pm

Quote from Glitch15:

Thanks for the video.

Is there a specific way that you are suppose to do the bombjump to do gate skip or is it just hard to do because of the fact that you roll down the slope if you don't hold slightly toward it?

You generally want to place the bomb a tiny bit below where you normally would compared to normal.

Glitch15

2013-12-26 06:29:19 pm

Quote from Baby Sheegoth:

Quote from Glitch15:

Thanks for the video.

Is there a specific way that you are suppose to do the bombjump to do gate skip or is it just hard to do because of the fact that you roll down the slope if you don't hold slightly toward it?

You generally want to place the bomb a tiny bit below where you normally would compared to normal.

So now I can consistently get the bombjump with 2-3 tries. Just because of this tip. Makes it really easy.

MrSpEeDrUn

2013-12-26 09:34:16 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

its pretty neat, how that route combines the early PB's with livegiver, thats the only annoying detour in the current any% route.
i think the current route for any% is probably around 20-30 secs faster than this one, but jeez, doing that on PAL would save tons of time.
so someone should probably set new WR's in those categories :P

Glitch15

2013-12-27 07:46:34 pm

So what's different on PAL other then the no scan dashes?

MrSpEeDrUn

2013-12-27 08:32:23 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

door lock in phazon mines; costs a ton of time, not sure how to remove it, i think if you get main PB's its gone.
though spider shafts are blocking you in PAL, in the worst case you will have to wallcrawl around them, using the SW sparky used in his 1:01.

Glitch15

2013-12-29 10:31:34 am

I'm having real trouble climbing the Phazon Processing Center... I can jump on the support beam thing 2 times then the 3rd jump I always fall down...