The "I need help" Topic

2013-11-06 05:29:36 pm

loving low%

@BigBoss824: I made a video about that:
@Aegis Runestone: If I'm not mistaken, T3 made has a video on his YT channel where he gets SJ early w/ a Bomb Space Jump (w/out SJB itself) in Tallon Canyon so he gets to SJB/ the upper part of Landing Site the actual, normal way you'd find after collected Boost Ball. This method seemed far easier, and since you can BSJ in Trilogy as well...

Aegis Runestone

Edit history:

Aegis Runestone: 2013-11-06 06:23:37 pm

2013-11-06 05:46:38 pm

Game Lover

Umm... I don't know T3, and I've seen SEVERAL videos. What I need is the way to do it in text format.

Edit: I went to Tallon Canyon... and I wasn't able to do because... where do I position myself.

T3

2013-11-06 07:45:38 pm

in order to do sje you have to what's called a "dsbj". basically it's a double bomb jump except you spring ball as each bomb on the ground explodes, which allows you to place the bomb in the air higher and get more height. here's a description of the trick that i posted a while ago:

"Lay a bomb. As it explodes spring ball. I suggest just practicing this until you get the hang of it. You'll know if you've done it correctly because you'll go higher than usual. This is pretty well what the bomb jump is except your doing it twice.

So from the starting, lay a bomb. As it explodes spring ball + lay another on the ground. At the peek of the jump lay your last bomb. You'll fall to the ground and this is when you spring ball right as the bomb on the groung explodes. If done correctly, you'll hit the bomb in the air and will have an extended double bomb jump."

you should honestly just practice the dsbj first not on the rock in order to get the hang of how to do it optimally.

so get on the rock, do this bomb jump, and make sure you aim to the left side of the ledge (even though the right side looks lower). it's also very important that you move towards the ledge as you bomb jump. so don't just bomb jump straight up and down, you have to bomb jump diagonally so that you're at your peak of your bomb jump right as you touch the ledge.

here's a vid by itspersonnal:

also here's a vid of the bsj in tallon canyon:

i've never tried it on trilogy but i imagine you could still make it, just dsbj instead of double bomb jumping.

as for the bomb jump off the ship, i was never able to do it on trilogy.

in order to do sje you have to what's called a "dsbj". basically it's a double bomb jump except you spring ball as each bomb on the ground explodes, which allows you to place the bomb in the air higher and get more height. here's a description of the trick that i posted a while ago:

"Lay a bomb. As it explodes spring ball. I suggest just practicing this until you get the hang of it. You'll know if you've done it correctly because you'll go higher than usual. This is pretty well what the bomb jump is except your doing it twice.

So from the starting, lay a bomb. As it explodes spring ball + lay another on the ground. At the peek of the jump lay your last bomb. You'll fall to the ground and this is when you spring ball right as the bomb on the groung explodes. If done correctly, you'll hit the bomb in the air and will have an extended double bomb jump."

you should honestly just practice the dsbj first not on the rock in order to get the hang of how to do it optimally.

so get on the rock, do this bomb jump, and make sure you aim to the left side of the ledge (even though the right side looks lower). it's also very important that you move towards the ledge as you bomb jump. so don't just bomb jump straight up and down, you have to bomb jump diagonally so that you're at your peak of your bomb jump right as you touch the ledge.

here's a vid by itspersonnal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIlPm_LTPL4

also here's a vid of the bsj in tallon canyon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Awvq_LIolk

i've never tried it on trilogy but i imagine you could still make it, just dsbj instead of double bomb jumping.

as for the bomb jump off the ship, i was never able to do it on trilogy.

Aegis Runestone

2013-11-07 03:28:18 pm

Game Lover

Thanks, T3. But as for the Tallon Canyon trick, it looks like they removed that ledge. :/ I gave up on my SJE (though it might be possible using a DSBJ to get onto the roots) for the Trilogy this time around. However, I WAS able to get a Missile Expansion early w/o the Space Jump.

Remember the missile expansion in the Gathering Hall within the Chozo Ruins? The one that's at the top? Well, I did a Spring bomb Jump (I think that's what it is?) and after five tries, I got to the grating and was able to get the expansion before fighting Flaggera. What I did was, stand on the red light, spring ball, lay a bomb at the peak, and then spring onto the bomb as it explodes. It does work. :)

Skull64

Edit history:

Skull64: 2013-11-15 09:41:00 pm

Skull64: 2013-11-15 09:40:18 pm

2013-11-15 02:56:43 pm

Can somebody explain to me how exactly you do the dash in Monitor Station?

Edit: Never mind, http://www.twitch.tv/skull65/c/3248431

Skull64

Edit history:

Skull64: 2013-11-18 09:13:30 pm

2013-11-18 08:50:56 pm

Better question: how do you do the jump in Twin Fires Tunnel? and the first Main Quarry jump too. I feel there's some sort of tech that I don't know about.

Hazel

Edit history:

Hazel: 2013-11-19 09:54:44 am

Hazel: 2013-11-19 09:52:08 am

2013-11-19 08:03:39 am

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

Twin Fires is an interesting one. I'm guessing you understand R jumping at least to some degree? Pretty much, Samus' speed is capped going forward and backward, but there is no cap on moving left and right. So essentially you want to turn as sideways as possible during the jump in that room to gain as much speed/distance as possible. It's hard to say when the optimal time for all the inputs are, it doesn't really seem like there is an optimal time, since Miles and I both R jump very differently and can both clear the gap. I think the only really important thing is that when you press B the second time, you need to be holding both R and L, or else the actual jump will cut down your over all speed. Keeping all that in mind, the only way to really get consistent is to practice this trick a lot.
There is also a dash in this room that really isn't any slower and is much more consistent, here's a video of my strat for it:

And do you mean the very first jump in Main Quarry? or the dash to the Ice Beam door?

Twin Fires is an interesting one. I'm guessing you understand R jumping at least to some degree? Pretty much, Samus' speed is capped going forward and backward, but there is no cap on moving left and right. So essentially you want to turn as sideways as possible during the jump in that room to gain as much speed/distance as possible. It's hard to say when the optimal time for all the inputs are, it doesn't really seem like there is an optimal time, since Miles and I both R jump very differently and can both clear the gap. I think the only really important thing is that when you press B the second time, you need to be holding both R and L, or else the actual jump will cut down your over all speed. Keeping all that in mind, the only way to really get consistent is to practice this trick a lot.
There is also a dash in this room that really isn't any slower and is much more consistent, here's a video of my strat for it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGLWMO63HG0
And do you mean the very first jump in Main Quarry? or the dash to the Ice Beam door?

Skull64

Edit history:

Skull64: 2013-11-19 01:31:45 pm

Skull64: 2013-11-19 01:30:56 pm

2013-11-19 01:29:51 pm

the first jump. the dash to the ice door isn't hard

and thanks for the info about Twin Fires; I'll test that out later. I actually have done the dash method before but I assumed that the R-jump method was easier if you actually know what you're doing.

Hazel

2013-11-19 03:48:13 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

You can dash to the ice beam door from the lower area, so I wasn't sure if you meant that or not. (I would never recommend doing that dash in a run).
As for the jump, there doesn't seem to be much of a trick to it? It's kind of just something you get a feel for after doing it a lot. Pretty much, you'll want to get as close to the edge of the platform as possible and then just do a normal jump. I personally don't let go of L at all so I can concentrate on when to use my second jump, because it seems timing that jump well is all you need to get up. That, and be sure you're holding L as you land too, since it's a small platform and that'll make it easier to get onto.

Rakaydos

2013-11-27 02:53:24 pm

Does anyone know of a Any% Suitless (Varia/Gravity skip) run? is it possibe to do without secret worlds? What would be a good route if you cant stay in Magmore till after Omega Pirate?

Baby Sheegoth

2013-11-27 03:23:10 pm

It is possible. Your level of play would have to be out of only 3 people in the world, however. I don't think anyone has routed it out, however.

T3

Edit history:

T3: 2013-11-27 03:32:55 pm

2013-11-27 03:31:25 pm

you need to grab the 3 energy tanks in chozo and then do a run through magmoor to phendrana. if you're willing to use secret worlds you can grab several more to make it easier.

Quote from Baby Sheegoth:

It is possible. Your level of play would have to be out of only 3 people in the world, however. I don't think anyone has routed it out, however.

i'm sure more than 3 people are capable of doing it...

Hazel

2013-11-27 03:41:33 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

I'm pretty sure I can list at least 6 people off the top of my head who have done it with 4 tanks.

MrSpEeDrUn

2013-11-27 06:35:36 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

its not that difficult when you tried it a couple times, unless youre not a very good runner of this game
its very hard with 3 tanks though.

Rakaydos

2013-11-27 06:40:04 pm

How much time does wallcrawling for the extra 2 tanks take? I presume you use the same secret world as IBbF?

MrSpEeDrUn

2013-11-27 07:12:19 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

uh i know one is near the wasp drone thing that one is not that far out of the way.
2nd is at furnace which is basically on your way
3rd there is the one in main plaza which everyone takes idk where the 4th one is though.

T3

2013-11-27 07:31:12 pm

it could take anywhere from 15 minutes to several hours, really depends how good you are at wallcrawling. the one in hote you'd wallcrawl to from gathering hall and the one in training chamber you'd wallcrawl to from main plaza. you'll need to use floaty jump to get the one in training chamber unless you want to do a difficult bomb jump to get back oob. also, you can probably get the e-tanks in the crashed frigate but i wouldn't recommend it. wallcrawling through there is a nightmare.

Rakaydos

2013-11-27 08:23:44 pm

Any tips on the Gathering Hall SW? I'm getting the ghetto effect (sometimes, at least) but I cant seem to actually get through the gap.

Baby Sheegoth

Edit history:

Baby Sheegoth: 2013-11-27 09:08:06 pm

2013-11-27 09:07:30 pm

Quote from T3:

you need to grab the 3 energy tanks in chozo and then do a run through magmoor to phendrana. if you're willing to use secret worlds you can grab several more to make it easier.

Quote from Baby Sheegoth:

It is possible. Your level of play would have to be out of only 3 people in the world, however. I don't think anyone has routed it out, however.

i'm sure more than 3 people are capable of doing it...

I can only think of 3 people who have ever preformed a 3 tank VMR; you, Craztad, and SmilingJack13

Rakaydos

2013-11-28 12:29:38 am

If you run out of things to do, I'd love to see a proper Suitless (Varia/Gravity skip) Any% run, T3.

Daryoshi

2013-11-28 03:45:56 am

loving low%

Quote:

If you run out of things to do, I'd love to see a proper Suitless (Varia/Gravity skip) Any% run, T3.

THIS. :-)

I finished a Segmented run w/out Varia/ Gravity Suit in 1:57 in-game timer but the route planning is really a problem if you couldn't climb/ didn't know how to climb the 2 spider shafts in Phazon Mines, though. I collected all 5 E-Ts in Chozo Ruins and of course did IBBF but I'm sure T3 could get an AMAZING time w/out big efforts (besides a 3 T VMR) w/ far better route plannng.

Rakaydos

Edit history:

Rakaydos: 2013-11-28 05:18:49 pm

2013-11-28 05:18:14 pm

Quote from Daryoshi:

Quote:

If you run out of things to do, I'd love to see a proper Suitless (Varia/Gravity skip) Any% run, T3.

THIS. :-)

I finished a Segmented run w/out Varia/ Gravity Suit in 1:57 in-game timer but the route planning is really a problem if you couldn't climb/ didn't know how to climb the 2 spider shafts in Phazon Mines, though. I collected all 5 E-Ts in Chozo Ruins and of course did IBBF but I'm sure T3 could get an AMAZING time w/out big efforts (besides a 3 T VMR) w/ far better route plannng.

You didnt get spider ball? I mean, thardus is a pain, but if the routing is really that bad, would you save time by getting it?
With Space jump first and Ice Beam before Flagarra, once you get to phenedra, you ought to be able to stay there for quite awhile- After Thardus, you climb the wall and go through the ice beam door.

Also, where can I find your segmented run?

T3

2013-11-29 09:37:06 am

the fastest vmr route would be more or less the same as the current fastest route except you'd do a vmr and a small wallcrawl out of flaahgra's room.

main plaza e-tank, morph ball, charge, bombs, ibbf, hote/furnace e-tanks, flaahgra, wallcrawl out of sun chamber, wild, hive totem e-tank, vmr grabbing nature (if this isn't possible on ntsc then this roue doesn't work), do everything else the same except pick up the research lab aether e-tank.

so as you can see, a vmr run would be utterly pointless.

Daryoshi

2013-11-29 10:46:03 am

loving low%

No, getting Spider Ball is less fast in both, the IBBF-route (now that T3 had found a way to climb "Research Access" and "Elevator Access A" WITHOUT SB (in Phazon Mines) and it's also faster to skip SB in the non-IBBF, normal, in-bounds, MPzoid-route. But it can be tricky to skip SB in some rooms, especially in Phazon Mines.

Sorry, but I didn't record the run. It was, however, my 2nd VMR-speedrun, but I wasn't satisfied at all with it and wasn't taking it seriously; a serious run would at least skip ONE of those 5 E-Ts in Chozo Ruins, making for a few minutes less play-time and a few more hours frustration on a 4 instead of a 5 Tank Varialess Magmoor Run... I've been trying for a four-Tank VMR for so many hours on-and-off in the first months I sequence broke MP1 and NEVER managed it at all. And I only did 2 or 3 VMR's with 5 Tanks, so it really isn't all that easy with 5 Tanks, trust me. So, this is why I didn't want to put much effort into that 1:57 run; I wanted to finish a run, not to spend fucking weeks on it.

---

So, 6 E-Tanks are enough to go through all of Magmoor Caverns in this route? Seems to make for some other horrendously hard VMRs as well...
I'm sure extremely good players could use a further improved route compared with the route a more human-skilled player would come up with. If I could do a 5T-VMR more reliably, I'd even try to do a Singlesegment run out of this, that would be fun, I think?!

Quote:

so as you can see, a vmr run would be utterly pointless.

So, everything besides the normal categories on NTSC 0-00 is pointless? For you, okay, because you prefer putting much effort in rather "more-acknowledged" stuff, but hey, it sort of different compared with a normal any%, isn't it? Why collecting 100% of items? It's utterly pointless because just finishing as fast as possible (aka any%) is faster; it's the restrictions which make a game speedrunning-able in more categories, and VMR indeed IS a restriction, so... You know what I mean?!

Does anybody know/ can anybody verify that you can get from Ruins to Phen with taking the other route; the route from Northern Chozo Ruins to the Elevator to Phen instead of the "normal", NTSC-way where you start in the middle of Magmoor when coming from Tallon?! The puffers at the end of FIRST, PAL-route always (?) give you 100 energy each, but I don't think you could survive w/out them. In NTSC, you'd have to manipulate luck probably or something in order to get through that.

Sorry for another (too) long post from my part (,itsPersonnal) *cough* ;-)

No, getting Spider Ball is less fast in both, the IBBF-route (now that T3 had found a way to climb "Research Access" and "Elevator Access A" WITHOUT SB (in Phazon Mines) and it's also faster to skip SB in the non-IBBF, normal, in-bounds, MPzoid-route. But it can be tricky to skip SB in some rooms, especially in Phazon Mines.

Sorry, but I didn't record the run. It was, however, my 2nd VMR-speedrun, but I wasn't satisfied at all with it and wasn't taking it seriously; a serious run would at least skip ONE of those 5 E-Ts in Chozo Ruins, making for a few minutes less play-time and a few more hours frustration on a 4 instead of a 5 Tank Varialess Magmoor Run... I've been trying for a four-Tank VMR for so many hours on-and-off in the first months I sequence broke MP1 and NEVER managed it at all. And I only did 2 or 3 VMR's with 5 Tanks, so it really isn't all that easy with 5 Tanks, trust me. So, this is why I didn't want to put much effort into that 1:57 run; I wanted to finish a run, not to spend fucking weeks on it.

---

So, 6 E-Tanks are enough to go through all of Magmoor Caverns in this route? Seems to make for some other horrendously hard VMRs as well...
I'm sure extremely good players could use a further improved route compared with the route a more human-skilled player would come up with. If I could do a 5T-VMR more reliably, I'd even try to do a Singlesegment run out of this, that would be fun, I think?!

[quote]so as you can see, a vmr run would be utterly pointless.[/quote]
So, everything besides the normal categories on NTSC 0-00 is pointless? For you, okay, because you prefer putting much effort in rather "more-acknowledged" stuff, but hey, it sort of different compared with a normal any%, isn't it? Why collecting 100% of items? It's utterly pointless because just finishing as fast as possible (aka any%) is faster; it's the restrictions which make a game speedrunning-able in more categories, and VMR indeed IS a restriction, so... You know what I mean?!

Does anybody know/ can anybody verify that you can get from Ruins to Phen with taking the other route; the route from Northern Chozo Ruins to the Elevator to Phen instead of the "normal", NTSC-way where you start in the middle of Magmoor when coming from Tallon?! The puffers at the end of FIRST, PAL-route always (?) give you 100 energy each, but I don't think you could survive w/out them. In NTSC, you'd have to manipulate luck probably or something in order to get through that.

Sorry for another (too) long post from my part (,itsPersonnal) *cough* ;-)

Rakaydos

2013-11-29 11:40:50 am

It sounds like T3 is saying that the current speed runs are fast enough to clear suitless, but dont bother to NOT take varia (slower beating flagara to open SW, ect) And that stuff like Plasma Beam doesnt require you to be in Magmore long enough to worry about getting more health, if you're already at 3 tank VMR level.

Concerning a 3 tank VMR Artifact of Nature, I would imagine you'd do a VMR, hit the save station to top off, and go back for the MB Energy tank and the artifact.