The "I need help" Topic

2013-08-21 10:13:51 am

Wow, all you have to do is let go of L? I learn something new about this game's physics every day, I got the jump first try as soon as I did that.

Baby Sheegoth

2013-08-21 04:14:42 pm

Quote from kirbymastah:

There is no such think as L-lock spring space jump. It was just made-up, and gave the illusion of giving more distance since because you're looking down, you know you're as far as possible to the edge. What baby sheegoth described was a simple L jump.

Uh, no. Holding down L increases your movement speed, so holding it for a jump does make you travel further. Letting go shortly after a jump, however, makes it a lot further.

Hazel

2013-08-21 05:23:43 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

I think we're getting a little confusion with trick names here. I always thought an L jump WAS when you jump and let go of L mid jump? Isn't an "L-lock spring space jump" that weird thing where you look down before jumping and supposedly get more height/distance?

Gostu

2013-08-21 05:25:34 pm

Quote from MarreDeLaPrepa:

Don't go for thardus jump on PAL, honestly, except if you do segmented. You can avoid Thardus and go through magmoor, but I'm not sure you would save more time than if you do IS (of course if you get ice spreader).
If you fail your thardus jump and if you have no experience or power bombs then you gonna lose 3 to 4 minutes I guess.

Sheegoth : Just make sure you lay 3 bombs in his foot while he's doing an ice attack. I don't really know much about this weird fight but that's how I do it and it never fails.

OP : I guess bad PB timing. Watch Miles or T3.

the first elite pirate : I guess you don't know the right trajectory. Try more things. I don't really see what you mean by going left ASAP tho, if you pass between that kind of pilar and the computer fast enough he shouldn't be able to " see " you. Again watching runs is a nice source of informations ;)

Thanks a lot for the answer, so how slower do you think going through magmoor is compared to early sun ?

I thought it was a bad timing for sheegoth but you're right, on his foot stuns him. It's 6 missiles to kill him in one cycle ? I can do 5 I think and it's just not enough.

I timed the power bomb for OP in Miles' 0:57 (about 4.7 seconds after plasma shot) but couldn't try it because I choked before I reached him and don't have any save nearby. I'll try again tomorrow.

[quote="MarreDeLaPrepa"]Don't go for thardus jump on PAL, honestly, except if you do segmented. You can avoid Thardus and go through magmoor, but I'm not sure you would save more time than if you do IS (of course if you get ice spreader).
If you fail your thardus jump and if you have no experience or power bombs then you gonna lose 3 to 4 minutes I guess.

Sheegoth : Just make sure you lay 3 bombs in his foot while he's doing an ice attack. I don't really know much about this weird fight but that's how I do it and it never fails.

OP : I guess bad PB timing. Watch Miles or T3.

the first elite pirate : I guess you don't know the right trajectory. Try more things. I don't really see what you mean by going left ASAP tho, if you pass between that kind of pilar and the computer fast enough he shouldn't be able to " see " you. Again watching runs is a nice source of informations ;)[/quote]

Thanks a lot for the answer, so how slower do you think going through magmoor is compared to early sun ?

I thought it was a bad timing for sheegoth but you're right, on his foot stuns him. It's 6 missiles to kill him in one cycle ? I can do 5 I think and it's just not enough.

I timed the power bomb for OP in Miles' 0:57 (about 4.7 seconds after plasma shot) but couldn't try it because I choked before I reached him and don't have any save nearby. I'll try again tomorrow.

kirbymastah

2013-08-22 12:55:24 am

Quote from itsPersonnal:

I think we're getting a little confusion with trick names here. I always thought an L jump WAS when you jump and let go of L mid jump? Isn't an "L-lock spring space jump" that weird thing where you look down before jumping and supposedly get more height/distance?

yeah what itspersonnal said. people thought looking down then letting samus's view "fling up" by letting go of L while jumping gave you more distance than a standard L jump.

metroid2002 says:

"To execute an L-Lock Spring Space Jump, lock your view down by holding R and pressing up (or down) on your Analog Stick until Samus is looking at the floor. Simultaneously release R and the Analog Stick and hold down L. You should have your view locked looking at the ground. Now jump forward and release the lock. Samus's jump is given an additional height bonus as well as a momentum bonus."

Now a rodeo jump, which is kinda similar, DOES give you more distance and speed; not close to as much as a dash jump, but enough to make a difference in certain scenarios when a lock-on target isn't available, like skipping the chozo ghost fight after getting x-ray visor.

[quote="itsPersonnal"]I think we're getting a little confusion with trick names here. I always thought an L jump WAS when you jump and let go of L mid jump? Isn't an "L-lock spring space jump" that weird thing where you look down before jumping and supposedly get more height/distance? [/quote]

yeah what itspersonnal said. people thought looking down then letting samus's view "fling up" by letting go of L while jumping gave you more distance than a standard L jump.

metroid2002 says:

"To execute an L-Lock Spring Space Jump, lock your view down by holding R and pressing up (or down) on your Analog Stick until Samus is looking at the floor. Simultaneously release R and the Analog Stick and hold down L. You should have your view locked looking at the ground. Now jump forward and release the lock. Samus's jump is given an additional height bonus as well as a momentum bonus."

Now a rodeo jump, which is kinda similar, DOES give you more distance and speed; not close to as much as a dash jump, but enough to make a difference in certain scenarios when a lock-on target isn't available, like skipping the chozo ghost fight after getting x-ray visor.

Baby Sheegoth

2013-08-22 07:12:13 pm

Ah okay, I see what you mean now.

Jtabor2

2013-08-25 07:31:11 pm

Okay guys, I'm still very confused, no offense lol. I was wondering about this L lock spring space jump because the description fits what Zoid does when he jumps as soon as he enters the Arboretem when he goes straight to Flaaghra. However, I think this would not apply to Miles's WR 100%. There are chozo ghosts in that room because he does more sequence breaking.
Bottomline, does anyone know if at any point in Miles's 100% run does he look down with R and release for that jump?

T3

2013-08-25 08:03:46 pm

that l-lock spring space jump page on m2k2 really needs to be removed... all it does is cause confusion.

jtabor2, looking down or up or any other direction before jumping does not affect your distance. people used to think that looking down increased your distance. it doesn't. the reason zoid looks down at the beginning of the jump in arboretum is to time the jump so that he jumps right as he gets to the ledge. if miles looks down before any jump in his run it's because he's timing a jump but looking down does not affect the distance you get from a jump.

if you want to get greater distances from your jumps press L before jumping and release it ~1/3 of a second after starting the jump. this is an L jump.

if you want additional distance (although this is harder to do just right) twist left/right before the double jump, tap R then press L, jump and then release L. this is how i R jump. a more basic definition of an R jump is just tapping R for each jump during an L jump and twisting but i thought i'd give you the exact button presses.

that l-lock spring space jump page on m2k2 really needs to be removed... all it does is cause confusion.

jtabor2, looking down or up or any other direction before jumping does not affect your distance. people used to think that looking down increased your distance. it doesn't. the reason zoid looks down at the beginning of the jump in arboretum is to time the jump so that he jumps right as he gets to the ledge. if miles looks down before any jump in his run it's because he's timing a jump but looking down does not affect the distance you get from a jump.

if you want to get greater distances from your jumps press L before jumping and release it ~1/3 of a second after starting the jump. this is an L jump.

if you want additional distance (although this is harder to do just right) twist left/right before the double jump, tap R then press L, jump and then release L. this is how i R jump. a more basic definition of an R jump is just tapping R for each jump during an L jump and twisting but i thought i'd give you the exact button presses.

Penzu

2013-08-26 03:41:45 am

Sorry to interrupt your discussion, but I'm in need of some help for climbing the Frigate Crash Site.

I'm trying to do the scan dash from the branch to the door, but I just can't manage to do it. Do I need to bend the jump or something?

Thanks in advance.

Skull64

2013-08-26 04:59:31 am

So L-lock spring jumps aren't even real... no wonder I was having so much trouble with the Life Grove jump.

kirbymastah

2013-08-26 08:28:13 am

@Penzu, the fastest way to climb it is in this video -

A problem I had with it is that I stood on the intersection of the branches, such that the left branch blocked my dash a little, hurting my distance. You want to make sure the higher branch that you're standing on isn't in the way of your dash.

The first jump of the dash is normal, you don't need to bend it. The second jump, you need to bend it back; I personally hold back and left just after I use my space jump.

Penzu

2013-08-26 02:32:44 pm

Thanks a lot Kirbymastah, I managed to perform the jump after practising it for half an hour :D. I bended it forward on the first jump, then backward on the second.

Jtabor2

Edit history:

Jtabor2: 2013-08-27 07:19:33 pm

Jtabor2: 2013-08-26 08:45:45 pm

2013-08-26 08:44:25 pm

Thanks a lot for the Clarification T3 and additional info. :)

Gostu

Edit history:

Gostu: 2013-09-15 07:18:51 pm

Gostu: 2013-09-15 07:16:31 pm

2013-09-15 07:11:22 pm

So I've done some any% ss PAL runs and got a 1:39 full of huge mistakes, thanks a lot for all the info here.

Before I do it again I'll practice parts so I have some questions :

-the dash Miles does at 17:45 in his 0:56 cutscenes removed run (I'm not sure of the name of the room, main factory maybe) : I can't get enough speed because it seems I'm falling of the ledge, I tried the way pirate109 does but same result.
What can I be missing ? ~~Miles seems to aim down during the jump, but is it helpful ?~~ I tried "normal dash" and pressing B twice before releasing R.

-prime 2nd form : I can get 5 (nearly 4) pools easily but he always take a lot of time to drop them, I have better results with charge beam but it's still too slow. Do I need a specific timing ? I've read it's about interrupting his attacks but I'm not sure how to use this info.

-the famous glass that needs to be broken by a pirate in a research center : any consistent way is known ? Even if it's a bit slow I'll take it, still better than having to reload the room.

-L jumps when not needed : I always walk with L because it's faster, but I'm too lazy for all those jumps, do they save a lot of time ? Can it be more than half a minute in a 1:30 run ?

Anything is usefull, thanks in advance. Thanks also to metroidmaster88 for the anwser on youtube.

So I've done some any% ss PAL runs and got a 1:39 full of huge mistakes, thanks a lot for all the info here.

Before I do it again I'll practice parts so I have some questions :

-the dash Miles does at 17:45 in his 0:56 cutscenes removed run (I'm not sure of the name of the room, main factory maybe) : I can't get enough speed because it seems I'm falling of the ledge, I tried the way pirate109 does but same result. 
What can I be missing ? [s]Miles seems to aim down during the jump, but is it helpful ?[/s] I tried "normal dash" and pressing B twice before releasing R.

-prime 2nd form : I can get 5 (nearly 4) pools easily but he always take a lot of time to drop them, I have better results with charge beam but it's still too slow. Do I need a specific timing ? I've read it's about interrupting his attacks but I'm not sure how to use this info.

-the famous glass that needs to be broken by a pirate in a research center : any consistent way is known ? Even if it's a bit slow I'll take it, still better than having to reload the room.

-L jumps when not needed : I always walk with L because it's faster, but I'm too lazy for all those jumps, do they save a lot of time ? Can it be more than half a minute in a 1:30 run ?

Anything is usefull, thanks in advance. Thanks also to metroidmaster88 for the anwser on youtube.

Odylg

Edit history:

Odylg: 2013-09-15 07:25:01 pm

Odylg: 2013-09-15 07:21:37 pm

2013-09-15 07:19:28 pm

I run this here hotel of an evening

for prime's 2nd form it takes X amount of shockwaves. shoot him after he begins a shockwave to interrupt it. it still counts as having happened.

for the glass don't grab thermal beforehand

i was surprised how much jumping helps. not sure how much time is saved though.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-09-15 07:25:47 pm

2013-09-15 07:25:09 pm

if the pirate doesn't break the glass, reload the room

also, always get in the habit of L jumping. It is definitely faster. Yes, in a 1:30 run, I'm pretty confident that L jumping overall would save over a half minute.

T3

2013-09-15 08:03:28 pm

the dash miles does in that room is very difficult. in fact i'd say miles probably only lands it about 50% of the time. the reason he looks down while dashing is because he's doing what's called a "rodeo dash" which gives more distance/height. i'd highly recommend using an easier method for that room such as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRn9r3vFPnY#t=94

a consistent method to get the glass to break (at least from what i can tell) is by entering the main portion of the room as fast as possible. to do this you have to be in the air as the door opens and shoot the crates asap. here's a video of the method: http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=qXioLV0ueyA#t=2227

R Web

2013-09-19 06:48:57 pm

I have found that the pirate almost always breaks the glass if I land on the door upon entering and then do not jump until the pirates start making noise. It's slower than other methods but I find it to be very consistent.

Gostu

2013-09-25 09:40:53 am

Thanks a lot, sorry for the late answer but had to try this, also got a 1:36 meanwhile.

Quote from Odylg:

for prime's 2nd form it takes X amount of shockwaves. shoot him after he begins a shockwave to interrupt it. it still counts as having happened.

So is there a way to force him to do them faster ? I attack him about every second with charge beam so I can't really see the animation, do I have to wait ?

Quote from kirbymastah:

also, always get in the habit of L jumping. It is definitely faster. Yes, in a 1:30 run, I'm pretty confident that L jumping overall would save over a half minute.

Ok I'll try, I travel with boost ball and dashes most of the time anyway...

Quote from T3:

the dash miles does in that room is very difficult. in fact i'd say miles probably only lands it about 50% of the time. the reason he looks down while dashing is because he's doing what's called a "rodeo dash" which gives more distance/height. i'd highly recommend using an easier method for that room such as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRn9r3vFPnY#t=94

a consistent method to get the glass to break (at least from what i can tell) is by entering the main portion of the room as fast as possible. to do this you have to be in the air as the door opens and shoot the crates asap. here's a video of the method: http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=qXioLV0ueyA#t=2227

I do the room this way,I'll keep trying other methods, yours seems nice also. I watched your full run and you have interesting dashes I've never seen so I might steal them.

For the glass, I tried to replicate your run, once with success, and the other not, maybe I did something wrong but I can't tell. I think I'll just stay downstairs and jump so he can "see" me while I kill the pirates, it seems to work everytime and the climb is easier. It's only about 5 seconds lost so no big deal.

Thanks a lot, sorry for the late answer but had to try this, also got a 1:36 meanwhile.

[quote="Odylg"]for prime's 2nd form it takes X amount of shockwaves. shoot him after he begins a shockwave to interrupt it. it still counts as having happened.[/quote]

So is there a way to force him to do them faster ? I attack him about every second with charge beam so I can't really see the animation, do I have to wait ?

[quote="kirbymastah"]also, always get in the habit of L jumping. It is definitely faster. Yes, in a 1:30 run, I'm pretty confident that L jumping overall would save over a half minute.[/quote]

Ok I'll try, I travel with boost ball and dashes most of the time anyway...

[quote="T3"]the dash miles does in that room is very difficult. in fact i'd say miles probably only lands it about 50% of the time. the reason he looks down while dashing is because he's doing what's called a "rodeo dash" which gives more distance/height. i'd highly recommend using an easier method for that room such as this: [noembed]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRn9r3vFPnY#t=94[/noembed]

a consistent method to get the glass to break (at least from what i can tell) is by entering the main portion of the room as fast as possible. to do this you have to be in the air as the door opens and shoot the crates asap. here's a video of the method: [noembed]http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=qXioLV0ueyA#t=2227[/noembed][/quote]

I do the room this way,I'll keep trying other methods, yours seems nice also. I watched your full run and you have interesting dashes I've never seen so I might steal them.

For the glass, I tried to replicate your run, once with success, and the other not, maybe I did something wrong but I can't tell. I think I'll just stay downstairs and jump so he can "see" me while I kill the pirates, it seems to work everytime and the climb is easier. It's only about 5 seconds lost so no big deal.

Secretkey

2013-09-29 07:42:05 pm

So guys, I have some questions about possible routes for PAL SS any% :

After beating the omega pirate, what would be the fastest way to clear Phendrana considering I didn't bother getting Early Wild. The way I'm doing it now is to immediately fight Thradus, then do a full round through pirate laboratory since I need to get Super Missiles, the Artifact and Thermol Visor, then leaving the laboratories through the ice door, getting the Artifact, rush through the Thardus room again to the temple and get the last Artifact in Phendrana there. Are there even any other possible routes?

And does getting Early Wild ultimately even save too much time? Remember: I definitely won't go for a Thardus dash jump in a SS since for me it's just too hard to pull it off consistantly in the PAL-Version, so I would have the spiderball anyways by the end of the run and I would only need to get Supers which would save some time at the Chozo Ghost fight and the final boss.

Secretkey

2013-09-30 11:14:06 pm

Never mind - I've figured it out myself by simply doing a test run with Early Artifact of Wild and Early Artifact of Sun included. And holy shit- it saved about 13 minutes compared to my current Single Segment 1:47 h record. It's so absolutely worth it and I'll try to get those tricks down to pull them off constantly. Technically it wasn't a SS run, because I reloaded a few times before Flaaghra and saved before Early Sun, but once I get a good run going I could even get a 1:31 - 1:30 h PAL single segment time.

Maybe I should concentrate on Metroid Prime in my streams first before I go back to Fusion...

BigBoss824

2013-10-29 04:16:31 am

Sorry but this is most likely a noob question. It's my first time sequence breaking Prime and I'm having trouble in the Hydro Access Tunnel without the Gravity suit. I can get the 1st boost down the shaft and sometimes I get lucky and get about half way down but my 2nd boost always sends my Morph Ball flying horizontally. I've watched the video dozens of times but I can't recreate it. It looks like in the video, they don't have the spider ball but I can't tell too well because of the Fusion Suit. Is it possible that having the spider ball is affecting my boosts or do I just suck? Thanks.

kirbymastah

2013-10-29 01:55:35 pm

spider ball shouldn't be affecting anything.

Also why are you in hydro access tunnel? Are you just messing around, or trying to learn a route? Because you should NEVER be there in any% (and you should have gravity suit in 100%)

Otherwise can't help with anything else there =/

BigBoss824

2013-10-29 03:03:02 pm

Yea I'm just trying to learn new things that I normally shouldn't be doing. I guess I'll just pass through using the gravity suit then. Thanks for the feedback Kirby.

Aegis Runestone

Edit history:

Aegis Runestone: 2013-11-06 04:44:42 pm

Aegis Runestone: 2013-11-06 03:01:56 pm

2013-11-06 02:59:14 pm

Game Lover

This is about the Wii version: For the SJE--Can someone lay out to me what I'm supposed to do for the ship and rock methods? I watched videos, but I have no idea exactly what's going on.

Edit: ... would anyone help me please? I've been trying for two days.