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Opium
2015-12-10 02:02:22 pm
If an entity sent the tornado to kill people then the entity is evil.  Of course the tornado isn't evil, it is not sentient.  Weapons aren't evil, the thing wielding it is.
Opium
2015-12-10 02:03:35 pm
If you want to get all philosphical about the nature of evil then you're wasting your time.  Evil = opposite of good.  Done.
Toozin
2015-12-10 02:03:42 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
Well, the horsemen are weapons being wielded by the...

Damnit, I need to look up what those guys are called.
Toozin
Toozin
Edit history:
Toozin: 2015-12-10 02:04:53 pm
Toozin: 2015-12-10 02:04:38 pm
Toozin: 2015-12-10 02:04:37 pm
2015-12-10 02:03:50 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
That's an extremely black and white way of looking at the world. Darksiders explicitly uses shades of gray morality.
Opium
2015-12-10 02:04:44 pm
The horesemen wouldn't be doing that job unless they were evil.  Good guys don't spread war, famine, disease, etc to exterminate mankind.
Toozin
2015-12-10 02:05:39 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
I mean the fact that one of the major villians is an angel should clue you in on that.
Toozin
2015-12-10 02:06:22 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
The Charred Council. That's who I was trying to think of. Fuck.
Opium
2015-12-10 02:06:34 pm
Arguing over the nature of evil is as futile as trying to define god.  The more vague you get, the more meaningless it becomes, and the more specific you get, the easier it is to refute.  Look up evil in a thesaurus.  It's pretty clear what it means.

Quote from Toozin:
I mean the fact that one of the major villians is an angel should clue you in on that.

Satan is an angel.
Toozin
2015-12-10 02:08:35 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
A fallen angel, but I fail to see how that disproves my point.

He isn't even a character in the games anyway.
Opium
2015-12-10 02:11:23 pm
Look, if you want to consider war famine pestlience and death to not be bad things, then that's fine.  If you're affected by any of those things I doubt you would still defend them.  I can't believe I'm even having this conversation, tbh.
Toozin
2015-12-10 02:13:20 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
Again, the horsemen in Darksiders are not the personifications of those things. They do not cause those things or control those things. They're just named after them based on their skills and personality. Their job is just to end the world when it's time for the world to end.
Toozin
2015-12-10 02:14:23 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
You're really confusing the game's lore with biblical lore. It uses the bible as a starting point, but it's ultimately completely different. They renamed two of the horsemen Fury and Strife for crying out loud.
Opium
2015-12-10 02:16:40 pm
Those are the things that will bring about the end of mankind, that is why they are named after those things. 

Quote from Toozin:
You're really confusing the game's lore with biblical lore. It uses the bible as a starting point, but it's ultimately completely different. They renamed two of the horsemen Fury and Strife for crying out loud.


The biblical lore is varied as hell, so there's really no set lore for darksiders to follow.  Regardless, it's obvious in any interpretation that they're not good guys, and they aren't neutral.  Apocalypse, disease, death, war, famine, etc etc etc - those are BAD things, regardless of whether or not they are inevitable, or they are the result of an order passed down. 
Opium
2015-12-10 02:17:48 pm
It's fiction crafted to scare people into submission.
Toozin
2015-12-10 02:18:02 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
Well obviously you're incapable of seeing things in gradients so I'll just stop trying now.
Opium
2015-12-10 02:19:54 pm
I am capable of seeing things in gradients.  That doesn't mean I'm willing to entertain the possibility that the worst things a human can think of aren't bad things.
Toozin
2015-12-10 02:21:55 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
Bad things for humans, yeah. But it doesn't make them evil.
Toozin
2015-12-10 02:23:18 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
Like, death is bad when it happens to you or someone you care about, but if death didn't exist we would have run out of space on the planet thousands of years ago. So is it a bad thing in the grand scheme?
Opium
2015-12-10 02:24:14 pm
They're ills.  They're bad things.  Things that cause suffering, despair, fear, death, loss, destruction, and million other negative things - but evil?  Of course not.  I think we just disagree on what the word evil means.
Opium
2015-12-10 02:26:40 pm
Quote from Toozin:
Like, death is bad when it happens to you or someone you care about, but if death didn't exist we would have run out of space on the planet thousands of years ago. So is it a bad thing in the grand scheme?


It DOES happen to you and the people you care about, so thinking about it outside of that reality isn't useful.
Toozin
2015-12-10 02:28:34 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
Yeah, there's no point in thinking about things that don't directly affect you. Silly me.
Opium
2015-12-10 02:31:21 pm
That's not what I'm saying at all.  I'm saying that if you have to deny something true about death in order to see it in another way, then you aren't seeing it in a way that is truthful.
Opium
2015-12-10 02:32:57 pm
I sincerely believe that no matter what anyone tells themselves about death, it is still their greatest fear.  Unless you're mentally ill, your brain is hardwired for preservation.
Opium
2015-12-10 02:34:00 pm
That's why religious people fight death tooth and nail even though they claim to know that paradise awaits them afterwards.
Poision Envy
2015-12-10 02:42:21 pm
Club 27 Goals
Quote from arkarian:
he's not trolling opium

death is rarely represented as evil, in fact i can't think of a single piece of fiction where it is

Hades from the animated Hercules movie :D