The 15% Topic

JaggerG

2007-05-27 05:18:57 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

>_< I didn't even realize you could go back. I'm too used to speedrunning. >_<

Tonski

2007-05-27 05:41:25 am

Me too, that option never even got into my head. :|

But I think low% runs in ZM are pretty easy in general, not counting 9% Hard mode on PAL. (or SS runs)

Go and try 14% Super Metroid run. I'm pretty sure Ridley will murder you badly for a quite long time.

JaggerG

2007-05-27 05:53:10 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

A lot harder than 1% Fusion.

Tonski

2007-05-27 06:40:48 am

1% Fusion run is also pretty easy in my opinion, since BioSpark can get near any% SS record with 1% SS. Segmented 1% would be just childs play in comparison to some low% runs.

But you're right, ZM low% has some bosses that make it still a bit harder than Fusion 1%. Mecha Ridley and Mother Brain isn't very easy. I still don't see ther 15% run point.

As said, Super Metroid low% pwns them all. Try it SS.

MASTER-88

2007-05-27 07:13:34 am

Speedrunner

Well Super metroid low-% is insane, i watch Smokey boss battles, i think i never can survive against Ridley or Mother brain. MB kill instantly.

1% run in fusion is pretty easy, but SS is absolutelu too randomly, There is 3 main boss took always couple deaths (Yakuza, Nightmare and Rildley) biospark is bit crazy, i really wait see his video.

Zero is probably easiest low-% game, only expect that SS is irritating because i hate failed my run everytime when somethink bad haapen and i miss something easy point, just like last time Tourian escape & tourian metroids. Space pirate segment can be hard too, because only one little mistake and you game is over.

Echoes low-% is real pain, i really working really hard my hard mode low-% run, it was hardest low-% run what i ever complete. Took only 2 weeks without trying any speed.

dosboot

2007-05-27 01:11:30 pm

Someone alluded to this, but how *do* you take out a zebetite with just one missile tank? Don't tell me you set up a situation where you can quickly pick up 3 missile refills during one volley...

Tonski

2007-05-27 02:24:20 pm

Exactly.

JaggerG

2007-05-28 05:09:34 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

The first couple are just BARELY considerable, but...you probably need a lot of luck and impeccable timing to pull off the last couple (assuming you're talking about 9% hard).

Not really that hard on normal though.

Foxhound3857

2007-05-28 05:14:14 pm

I agree Tonski; the 14% Speed or Ice runs for Super Metroid are the best; they really put your skill and reflexes to the test.

I made it all the way to Mother Brain on my 14% Ice run (playing on my own SNES, which means no slowdown or savestates), but my file dissappeared. Stupid cartridge battery; you'd think the game would last more than 13 years.

Anyway, to the TC: The setups vary for 15%, depending on the difficult.

Normal: Three Energy Tanks and three Supers is a solid choice. This gives you six Supers, which, if your aim is true, is just enough to send Mecha-Ridley packing almost immediately into the battle. Any less, and you'll need refills.

The Screw Attack is a huge benefit when fighting Mother Brain, so if you want it, sacrifice an E-Tank instead of a Super pack. 299 Energy is fine for the entire game.

Hard: One E-Tank, three Supers, Hi-Jump OR Speed Booster, and Screw Attack. You only need one E-Tank as a buffer zone incase you get hit by a Space Pirate during your final escape, and when making your way to Mecha Ridley. Three Supers means you'll need refills, but you really can't afford more than these three.

You shouldn't take both the Hi-Jump AND Speed Booster in Hard, but ONE of them is a good idea unless you are a professionel Bomb Jumper or Wall-Jumper. You only have one minute to escape Tourian on Hard, and that's incredibly difficult to do without either of these items. I'd take the Hi-Jump because of its applications elsewhere, such as when trying to lure the Black Pirates during your escape, but the Speed Booster will allow you to pick up an Energy Tank in the Mother Ship if, for some unfathomable reason, you decide not to take one during the course of the game. Choose wisely.

The Screw Attack should, again, be taken to make your experience in Tourian slightly less painful; you're in for a rough ride against Mother brain.

I hope this helps.

I agree Tonski; the 14% Speed or Ice runs for Super Metroid are the best; they really put your skill and reflexes to the test.

I made it all the way to Mother Brain on my 14% Ice run (playing on my own SNES, which means no slowdown or savestates), but my file dissappeared. Stupid cartridge battery; you'd think the game would last more than 13 years.

Anyway, to the TC: The setups vary for 15%, depending on the difficult.

Normal: Three Energy Tanks and three Supers is a solid choice. This gives you six Supers, which, if your aim is true, is just enough to send Mecha-Ridley packing almost immediately into the battle. Any less, and you'll need refills.

The Screw Attack is a huge benefit when fighting Mother Brain, so if you want it, sacrifice an E-Tank instead of a Super pack. 299 Energy is fine for the entire game.

Hard: One E-Tank, three Supers, Hi-Jump OR Speed Booster, and Screw Attack. You only need one E-Tank as a buffer zone incase you get hit by a Space Pirate during your final escape, and when making your way to Mecha Ridley. Three Supers means you'll need refills, but you really can't afford more than these three.

You shouldn't take both the Hi-Jump AND Speed Booster in Hard, but ONE of them is a good idea unless you are a professionel Bomb Jumper or Wall-Jumper. You only have one minute to escape Tourian on Hard, and that's incredibly difficult to do without either of these items. I'd take the Hi-Jump because of its applications elsewhere, such as when trying to lure the Black Pirates during your escape, but the Speed Booster will allow you to pick up an Energy Tank in the Mother Ship if, for some unfathomable reason, you decide not to take one during the course of the game. Choose wisely.

The Screw Attack should, again, be taken to make your experience in Tourian slightly less painful; you're in for a rough ride against Mother brain.

I hope this helps.

JaggerG

2007-05-29 03:41:46 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

I say speed booster is greater than Hello-Jump, in terms of the escape. I don't see enough reason outside the escape to get either of them, and in my opinion, that under-pressure IBJ is probably harder than climbing the escape shaft. I don't think you gain that much time using the Hi-Jump, do you? A bit easier to get up, but if you remember to breath and take your time climbing so that you don't hit buttons too early, I don't think it's as hard as the bomb ladder.

Not that they're all that hard, but you can't afford to fall more than a couple times bomb jumping, and you may be able to catch a block if you fall in the shaft. It really depends on the risk you're thinking of taking. I still like the idea of four super missile tanks, an etank, and SA for the first 15% hard. Short MB fight, and non-laser Iron Ted fight.

Foxhound3857

2007-05-29 09:17:31 am

If you have the Hi-Jump then you can simply jump from ledge to ledge in the large shaft, which can easily shave off 10-15 seconds from your time. It's VERY bad for your time if you have to cling to each block as you make your way up, and the only way to quickly ascend the shaft without Hi-Jumps is to Wall-jump to the top, which would take an immense amount of skill and reflex under pressure.

The Bomb Jump is, in my opinion, far easier to manage than a series of Wall-jumps. It's easy to get the hang of IBJ'ing, and even DJB'ing isn't that tough.

As I said, it's not NECESSARY to take either item to escape in one minute; it's just highly beneficial in that aspect.

Firefox

2007-06-14 03:07:52 pm

W00t! Just beat the normal version of the game with 15%. :P The items I used were the 9 required items then long beam (I was wrong, DO get long beam), Screw attack, 1 super missile tank, 1 normal missle tank, and 2 energy tanks.

Everybody is wrong. The game is soooo much easier if you get long beam, at least the 15% version. grin new

I'll do the hard 15% next. I'm thinking go with speed booster, because in normal mode i watched the clock when i had neither and my time was 1'5" when i got to the part when you could speed boost though the blocks. Also, I wasn't wall jumping, I was jumping on the blocks (and hanging). I'll take 1 e tank, 3 Sup missles, 1 norm missle, and speedy boosty.

Edit: Long beam isnt good anymore. I finally downloaded the black space pirate tricks movie and that was helpful. My comp wouldnt let me download it before for some reason...

Tonski

2007-06-14 04:00:21 pm

Don't waste your time with 15% runs, that's just not wise. You don't even speedrun, so you might as well try a 9% run. 9% is only hard if you speedrun, I can't imagine how easy segmented 9% would be if not aiming for speed. The only hard parts are MB and Iron Ted, and even those you can practice enough to make it easy.

And I'm not wrong.

Firefox

2007-06-15 09:22:50 am

If anybody could offer item suggestions, ridley strategies, or anything else that would be very helpful.

leafgreen386

2007-06-15 04:09:14 pm

Besides the required 9 (Morph Ball, Bombs, one Missile tank, the three unknown items, Power Grip, Ice Beam, and Varia Suit), Screw Attack for the Mother Brain battle and Speed Booster or Hi Jump for an easier tourian escape are options. You probably won't want to go without at least one energy tank, and additional missiles/super missiles never hurt. Although the game gives you varia automatically when you get your fully powered suit, if this is your first time through you may want to collect it manually, to have for tourian. So depending on how confident you are against mother brain and your escape, something like 1 or 2 etanks/[hi jump/speed booster]/1 or 2 (extra) missiles/1 or 2 supers/[screw attack]. Bracketed items being optional.

As for ridley... perhaps you should check the main site. If you constantly stay under ridley's toenails, and DON'T pump him with missiles (take a step, fire, take a step, fire, etc), he won't attack you. Ever. Except maybe for fireballs, which won't hit you, anyway.

Besides the required 9 (Morph Ball, Bombs, one Missile tank, the three unknown items, Power Grip, Ice Beam, and Varia Suit), Screw Attack for the Mother Brain battle and Speed Booster or Hi Jump for an easier tourian escape are options. You probably won't want to go without at least one energy tank, and additional missiles/super missiles never hurt. Although the game gives you varia automatically when you get your fully powered suit, if this is your first time through you may want to collect it manually, to have for tourian. So depending on how confident you are against mother brain and your escape, something like 1 or 2 etanks/[hi jump/speed booster]/1 or 2 (extra) missiles/1 or 2 supers/[screw attack]. Bracketed items being optional.

As for ridley... perhaps you should check the main site. If you constantly stay under ridley's toenails, and DON'T pump him with missiles (take a step, fire, take a step, fire, etc), he won't attack you. Ever. Except maybe for fireballs, which won't hit you, anyway.

Firefox

2007-06-15 06:44:12 pm

Thanks a lot for the advice, I guess i was using the toenail trick but i never attacked unless he shot the tiny fireballs at me, in which case I pumped him with missles.

In the case of mother brain, I say that she is the easiest boss in the game, easier than kraid with only normal missles I'd say.
As for the escape, I'd take speed booster as you can get a shinecharge if you run against mother brain right as you finish her.
Then just shinespark to the top of shaft.

JaggerG

2007-06-16 04:07:47 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Quote from Foxhound3857:

If you have the Hi-Jump then you can simply jump from ledge to ledge in the large shaft, which can easily shave off 10-15 seconds from your time.

I think I made it up in thirty five seconds for the second attempt at the hello-jumpless any% normal (I think my normal time is thirty seconds). So it's more like shaving five to ten seconds plus making it easier to actually do. I gotta figure out a good path up that shaft.

Quote from Tonski:

Don't waste your time with 15% runs, that's just not wise. [...] I can't imagine how easy segmented 9% would be if not aiming for speed.

...You...can't imagine segmenting 9%? Are you seriously trying to tell me you've speedran 9% normal single segment and have never done it segmented? I spent days on Iron Ted before I gave up for a year, then it took a couple days to beat it once I got back to it.

Also, 15% is the standard set by Nintendo, so if you can unlock all the ending pictures, you can tell all your friends about it and look cool, as opposed to telling them you ALMOST beat a minimal percent run but can't get past Iron Ted. Nobody outside of the internets has any clue it can be beaten carrying only 9%, and are going to think it's completely pointless and uninteresting.

Quote from Firefox:

Thanks a lot for the advice, I guess i was using the toenail trick but i never attacked unless he shot the tiny fireballs at me, in which case I pumped him with missles.

The negative of the cheesing strat that makes him tailspin every time? Doesn't that make it HARDer?

Quote from Firefox:

In the case of mother brain, I say that she is the easiest boss in the game, easier than kraid with only normal missles I'd say.

I disagree, although I do find it ironic that Kraid is probably the hardest boss for me to speedrun through.

Quote from Firefox:

As for the escape, I'd take speed booster as you can get a shinecharge if you run against mother brain right as you finish her.
Then just shinespark to the top of shaft.

You actually hit a block around the middle of the shaft. >_>

[quote="Foxhound3857"]If you have the Hi-Jump then you can simply jump from ledge to ledge in the large shaft, which can easily shave off 10-15 seconds from your time.[/quote]
I think I made it up in thirty five seconds for the second attempt at the hello-jumpless any% normal (I think my normal time is thirty seconds). So it's more like shaving five to ten seconds plus making it easier to actually do. I gotta figure out a good path up that shaft.

[quote="Tonski"]Don't waste your time with 15% runs, that's just not wise. [...] I can't imagine how easy segmented 9% would be if not aiming for speed.[/quote]
...You...can't imagine segmenting 9%? Are you seriously trying to tell me you've speedran 9% normal single segment and have never done it segmented? I spent days on Iron Ted before I gave up for a year, then it took a couple days to beat it once I got back to it.

Also, 15% is the standard set by Nintendo, so if you can unlock all the ending pictures, you can tell all your friends about it and look cool, as opposed to telling them you ALMOST beat a minimal percent run but can't get past Iron Ted. Nobody outside of the internets has any clue it can be beaten carrying only 9%, and are going to think it's completely pointless and uninteresting.

[quote="Firefox"]Thanks a lot for the advice, I guess i was using the toenail trick but i never attacked unless he shot the tiny fireballs at me, in which case I pumped him with missles.[/quote]
The negative of the cheesing strat that makes him tailspin every time? Doesn't that make it HARDer?

[quote="Firefox"]In the case of mother brain, I say that she is the easiest boss in the game, easier than kraid with only normal missles I'd say.[/quote]
I disagree, although I do find it ironic that Kraid is probably the hardest boss for me to speedrun through.

[quote="Firefox"]As for the escape, I'd take speed booster as you can get a shinecharge if you run against mother brain right as you finish her.
Then just shinespark to the top of shaft.[/quote]
You actually hit a block around the middle of the shaft. >_>

Tonski

2007-06-16 09:05:01 am

Quote from JaggerG:

Quote from Tonski:

Don't waste your time with 15% runs, that's just not wise. [...] I can't imagine how easy segmented 9% would be if not aiming for speed.

...You...can't imagine segmenting 9%? Are you seriously trying to tell me you've speedran 9% normal single segment and have never done it segmented? I spent days on Iron Ted before I gave up for a year, then it took a couple days to beat it once I got back to it.

Also, 15% is the standard set by Nintendo, so if you can unlock all the ending pictures, you can tell all your friends about it and look cool, as opposed to telling them you ALMOST beat a minimal percent run but can't get past Iron Ted. Nobody outside of the internets has any clue it can be beaten carrying only 9%, and are going to think it's completely pointless and uninteresting.

That's where you misunderstood me: I'm saying that I've speedran segmented 9% for the best speed I can. That's like trying to keep the same segment times as Master-88's WR. I mean that I imagine 9% playthrough wouldn't be hard, for example as Master said Tourian would be easy as you can after every Metroid room go back and save, do every zebetite separatedly, etc. If you don't care for speed then it's really easy in my opinion.

I could see that with year or 2 practice I could make 9% SS runs. But with my recent skill I can only imagine how hard it would be. At the best I could make it until Tourian. There I'd be wasted in seconds. I might sound like a guy with too big ego, but all this is only my opinion. :) I still don't see any point in making a 15% run.

[quote="JaggerG"]
[quote="Tonski"]Don't waste your time with 15% runs, that's just not wise. [...] I can't imagine how easy segmented 9% would be if not aiming for speed.[/quote]
...You...can't imagine segmenting 9%? Are you seriously trying to tell me you've speedran 9% normal single segment and have never done it segmented? I spent days on Iron Ted before I gave up for a year, then it took a couple days to beat it once I got back to it.

Also, 15% is the standard set by Nintendo, so if you can unlock all the ending pictures, you can tell all your friends about it and look cool, as opposed to telling them you ALMOST beat a minimal percent run but can't get past Iron Ted. Nobody outside of the internets has any clue it can be beaten carrying only 9%, and are going to think it's completely pointless and uninteresting.
[/quote]
That's where you misunderstood me: I'm saying that I've speedran segmented 9% [b]for the best speed I can[/b]. That's like trying to keep the same segment times as Master-88's WR.  I mean that I imagine 9% [i]playthrough[/i] wouldn't be hard, for example as Master said Tourian would be easy as you can after every Metroid room go back and save, do every zebetite separatedly, etc. If you don't care for speed then it's really easy in my opinion.

I could see that with year or 2 practice I could make 9% SS runs. But with my recent skill I can only imagine how hard it would be. At the best I could make it until Tourian. There I'd be wasted in seconds. I might sound like a guy with too big ego, but all this is only my opinion. :) I still don't see any point in making a 15% run.

MASTER-88

2007-06-16 09:58:45 am

Speedrunner

Yeah 15% run is same as any-%. 9% is real low-% Wink

This is real speedrun rules. Right?

There is no points made 15% run because it is same category as any-% run, but well it is good place increase your skills. And if you want get your gallery pictures easily 15% is good choise.

I,ve must be say i beat 15% normal mode SS run long time ago and it was really easy, even much easier than hard mode any-% SS run. I beat 15% hard mode run before my 10% hard mode. 15% hard was easy too, i don,t never died against Robot ridley, because it was really easy with 3 SM max. I can say 15% hard was even easier than 9% normal. 10% hard mode is pretty tought challenge, you really need good skills here.

Well Tonski is back. Are you continued your 9% run?

Tonski

2007-06-16 12:06:04 pm

I can't say I am. I still don't have a GBA. :( I have to save some money as I have a lot of other stuff I need to buy on the moment, the bill ain't gonna be small. grin new

I'm still at the Tourian middle save point by the way in my 9% run.

Good to know Master that at least someone here is totally sharing my opinion. *coughcoughfinnishconspiracy* 15% = any% in my eyes.

leafgreen386

2007-06-17 01:26:16 am

Quote from JaggerG:

Quote from Firefox:

Thanks a lot for the advice, I guess i was using the toenail trick but i never attacked unless he shot the tiny fireballs at me, in which case I pumped him with missles.

The negative of the cheesing strat that makes him tailspin every time? Doesn't that make it HARDer?

Well, if you pump him with missiles, of course he tails you... Pacing yourself just makes him shoot fireballs, and during an any% (in normal, at least), once he's red, you can pretty much pump him without worries from my experience, since he dies before you take enough damage for it to matter (although that's with one etank). Although I might take the fight too slow for my own good; I only tend to fire when ridley turns around (I think I also take a shot at him in the middle, but it's been a while; I think I might do it every other time), at the beginning when he first comes down (where I unload 3/4 of my supers), and at the end once he's red.

@15% = any% people: some of us (read: the other 95% of metroid players) aren't as skilled as you. Getting through both the mother brain and iron ted on 9% is something I, personally, cannot do, and neither can a lot of other people (who probably just want the game completion). To this day SA-less motherbrain battle is obscenely hard for me, and to compensate I take additional energy tanks (which I've been trying to cut back on as I probably lose about a minute or more collecting them). This site is about speedrunning, and I'm aware of that, however, people don't get amazing overnight.

[quote="JaggerG"][quote="Firefox"]Thanks a lot for the advice, I guess i was using the toenail trick but i never attacked unless he shot the tiny fireballs at me, in which case I pumped him with missles.[/quote]
The negative of the cheesing strat that makes him tailspin every time? Doesn't that make it HARDer?[/quote]
Well, if you pump him with missiles, of course he tails you... Pacing yourself just makes him shoot fireballs, and during an any% (in normal, at least), once he's red, you can pretty much pump him without worries from my experience, since he dies before you take enough damage for it to matter (although that's with one etank). Although I might take the fight too slow for my own good; I only tend to fire when ridley turns around (I think I also take a shot at him in the middle, but it's been a while; I think I might do it every other time), at the beginning when he first comes down (where I unload 3/4 of my supers), and at the end once he's red.

@15% = any% people: some of us (read: the other 95% of metroid players) aren't as skilled as you. Getting through both the mother brain and iron ted on 9% is something I, personally, cannot do, and neither can a lot of other people (who probably just want the game completion). To this day SA-less motherbrain battle is obscenely hard for me, and to compensate I take additional energy tanks (which I've been trying to cut back on as I probably lose about a minute or more collecting them). This site is about speedrunning, and I'm aware of that, however, people don't get amazing overnight.

tomatobob

2007-06-17 04:27:56 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from leafgreen386:

@15% = any% people: some of us (read: the other 95% of metroid players) aren't as skilled as you. Getting through both the mother brain and iron ted on 9% is something I, personally, cannot do, and neither can a lot of other people (who probably just want the game completion). To this day SA-less motherbrain battle is obscenely hard for me, and to compensate I take additional energy tanks (which I've been trying to cut back on as I probably lose about a minute or more collecting them). This site is about speedrunning, and I'm aware of that, however, people don't get amazing overnight.

What's wrong with viewing a 15% run as an Any% run? It isn't Low% and it certainly isn't 100%, there really aren't a whole lot of options left...

Tonski

2007-06-17 06:24:37 am

Low% for losers.

JaggerG

2007-06-18 03:17:12 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Much like speedrunning. Man, you die hundreds of times more than you succeed in ss runs. >_<

At least for single segment minimal percentists. >_>

ING-X

2007-09-28 05:46:23 pm

yeah

Quote from Tonski:

Low% for losers.

No, it's not. I personally enjoy 15% runs because it allows you to choose what items you get while still staying below 16 items. Sure, it's not real low%, but just because someone wants to get an ending picture for 15% or less doesn't mean that they're a loser if they don't go for 9%. It just means they want the ending picture and want the easiest way to get it.