[SM] Super Metroid: Redesign

2006-05-21 01:19:04 am

Thanks for your guidance. I was able to get into the next room, of course to find that the heat still hurts you, and of course I then die. I find this type of gameplay decision insanely frustrating, to the point of almost not being fun. I understand how the game was basically created for hardcore players of the series, (and don't get me wrong, I've been playing SM since day 1) but I really don't find BEING FORCED to run through hot Norfair without a Varia suit my cup of tea. I don't think I'm going to play this anymore. The headache isn't worth it.

Sigfriedxx

2006-05-21 01:48:25 am

thats fine, but the refill nest is in the third room under the first breakable bridge, hells run is the most challenging thing based on timming, but really once you know the path its really easy

PAL-Player

2006-05-21 04:49:44 am

I cant find the ICE BEAM... I killed Kraid... but now I'm stucked... can't get out of Brinstar expect to Norfair which is overheated...

Sigfriedxx

2006-05-21 05:20:00 am

if you have 3 tanks, then run into norfair

Qlex

2006-05-21 05:21:44 am

PAL-Player, you must get into Norfair, there's a third energy tank hidden in the still accessible part of Brinstar. After you're in Norfair, head as fast as you can to the right to get ice beam.

EDIT : Damn too late...

Infinity's End

2006-05-21 10:59:57 am

I find that games lose their fun when they force you to do things over and over again to "perfect" it. Metroid Prime 2 is one example of this. Especially going through Hard Mode. with little to no incentives aftwards. What you call "Hell's Run" is another example of this - and is next to impossible without using Save States. You think I want to waste my time going down the elevator over and over? No thanks.

Nintendo would never do something like this to you. Ever. And they never will, either. Nintendo knows when something is too frustrating for a player; knows how to perfectly balance gameplay and challenge. That's one of the things that makes a Nintendo game truly special. This is something that unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing then you won't succeed the first time. I'm sure there are other SMR players that will give up at this point, just like myself. For what it's worth, SMR was fun while it lasted. C-ya!

the wicked child

2006-05-21 11:15:47 am

If "Hell's Run" is too much for you, you might as well hang it up now because you're never going to make it through some of the later challenges.

nitetrain8

2006-05-21 12:57:49 pm

Well I dunno about anyone else here, but what I like to do is use a savestate just before starting a tough challenge (in this case just before regaining control of Samus as she steps off the elevator) and running through the whole puzzle at once, just reloading from my save point to save the frustration of dying/loading/elevator/ whatever animations.

Sigfriedxx

2006-05-21 01:05:53 pm

>_> Hells run is simple without save states, but you just need to learn the path, and all it is is running to the right for 2 rooms, refilling in the third room, running right again. once you know the damn course, you don't need states, yes its challenging, its the only obsticle that requires timing. later challenges? the only challenge after that is a bomb jump obsticle before crocomire, those 2 are life/death challenges, both justified by a save station right next to the area.

the challenges later on are based on thinking.

Tahngarthor

2006-05-21 03:23:47 pm

Bangaa Bishop

In SM, nintendo used the overheated areas as a message to say "youve gone farther than you should have;" Not "If you're bold and crazy, run trhough here because you need whats in here." They used it to direct players away from areas, not into them.

kwinse

2006-05-21 03:38:06 pm

You know what? This isn't Nintendo, this is a rather creative and fun hack from a fan. If you want to see what Nintendo would do, then just play the rom without applying any patches.

Please understand, I'm not putting down your complaints, I'm complaining about the reasoning that because Nintendo wouldn't do it that no one should.

Tahngarthor

2006-05-21 03:54:51 pm

Bangaa Bishop

I do like the hack for the most part- im impressed at just how much work went into it, and by one person. What im not sure is if you're trying to make an ultimate superhard insane you-can-only-win-if-you're-veteran-speedrunner challenge or if you're simply trying to create a new adventure (atm, it seems like both, so im not sure what you're going for).

I havent even made it to this "hells run" yet but it sounds a little excessive, thats all. And im only saying that when playing a metroid game, if I enter a room and start taking damage continuously, that tells me "I probably shouldnt go here right now." (That said, one of the coolest videos ive seen on this site is the MP1 video of someone rushing through magmoor caverns without the varia suit.)

Infinity's End

2006-05-21 06:24:34 pm

Quote from Sigfriedxx:

all it is is running to the right for 2 rooms, refilling in the third room, running right again.

That is NOT "all it is," and you know it. It's running, jumping, avoiding enemies, equipping SM's so you can open red doors to save time, morphing, bombing rocks, more running, wall jumping, etc. Yes, it's challenging, and I am telling you right now, it's excessive. It's not Metroid. You probably think this might sound harsh, but you're alienating your audience by forcing them to do something like this. To what kwinse said, I'm not complaining that since Nintendo didn't do it, no one should, what I'm trying to say is Nintendo doesn't alienate their players into doing something so hard that it takes 50-100 tries to beat it. Drewseph - yes it's probably simple as pie to you - you designed the freakin' game right? It's completely impossible to know how a player must feel when they're forced to go through something like this. You can never know, because you knew how to do it from the get-go. Your beta testers must have had a really tough time with this, did they not? It's fine if you don't agree with me, but this part is overly-challenging to the extreme. Like I said before, the trial-and-error thing is mainly what causes me to quit playing many games. And now this is one of those. I'm also not a big fan of Metal Gear Solid-type games because of the excessive trial-and-error you have to go through unless you're Mr. phenomenal awesome genius gamer (not to mention the excessive dialogue). I know many people may get defensive about this, but I'm just stating my opinion. So please, save your flames.

[quote="Sigfriedxx"] all it is is running to the right for 2 rooms, refilling in the third room, running right again. [/quote]

That is NOT "all it is," and you know it.  It's running, jumping, avoiding enemies, equipping SM's so you can open red doors to save time, morphing, bombing rocks, more running, wall jumping, etc.  Yes, it's challenging, and I am telling you right now, it's excessive.  It's not Metroid.  You probably think this might sound harsh, but you're alienating your audience by forcing them to do something like this.  To what kwinse said, I'm not complaining that since Nintendo didn't do it, no one should, what I'm trying to say is Nintendo doesn't alienate their players into doing something so hard that it takes 50-100 tries to beat it.  Drewseph - yes it's probably simple as pie to you - you designed the freakin' game right?  It's completely impossible to know how a player must feel when they're forced to go through something like this.  You can never know, because you knew how to do it from the get-go.  Your beta testers must have had a really tough time with this, did they not?  It's fine if you don't agree with me, but this part is overly-challenging to the extreme.  Like I said before, the trial-and-error thing is mainly what causes me to quit playing many games.  And now this is one of those.  I'm also not a big fan of Metal Gear Solid-type games because of the excessive trial-and-error you have to go through unless you're Mr. phenomenal awesome genius gamer (not to mention the excessive dialogue).  I know many people may get defensive about this, but I'm just stating my opinion.  So please, save your flames.

SABERinBLUE

2006-05-21 07:11:52 pm

Cook of the Sea

He's right, Drew. This:

Quote from Sigfriedxx:

>_> Hells run is simple without save states, but you just need to learn the path, and all it is is running to the right for 2 rooms, refilling in the third room, running right again. once you know the damn course, you don't need states, yes its challenging, its the only obsticle that requires timing. later challenges? the only challenge after that is a bomb jump obsticle before crocomire, those 2 are life/death challenges, both justified by a save station right next to the area.

the challenges later on are based on thinking.

Is no way to respond to criticism, especially on an issue like learning curve. There is no aspect of the learning curve that a player does not "understand" or "is not getting", learning curve is uniquely defined for each individual player. To brush off a person's issues with difficulty, especially when worded as fluently as Infinity's were, as "incorrect" is ridiculous. You should not have to explain the game; the game should speak for itself.

He's right, Drew.  This:

[quote="Sigfriedxx"]>_>  Hells run is simple without save states, but you just need to learn the path, and all it is is running to the right for 2 rooms, refilling in the third room, running right again.  once you know the damn course, you don't need states, yes its challenging, its the only obsticle that requires timing.  later challenges?  the only challenge after that is a bomb jump obsticle before crocomire, those 2 are life/death challenges, both justified by a save station right next to the area.

the challenges later on are based on thinking.[/quote]

Is no way to respond to criticism, especially on an issue like learning curve.  There is no aspect of the learning curve that a player does not "understand" or "is not getting", learning curve is uniquely defined for each individual player.  To brush off a person's issues with difficulty, especially when worded as fluently as Infinity's were, as "incorrect" is ridiculous.  You should not have to explain the game; the game should speak for itself.

Sigfriedxx

2006-05-21 07:54:54 pm

Firstly, I know people hate it, but alot of people also love it, hells run while difficult, is a challenge that alot of players have told me they like. as for my beta testers, sure they died a few times, making rmoe progress each time, but by the time they made it to the save room, they had no difficulty getting ice and getting back. had they had a difficult time I would have changed it around to make it easier, but they felt it was a perfect amount of difficulty.

As for being impossible for unskilled players, yes this is a difficult part, but its the first of only 2 obsticles that requires absolut precision.

no, I am not nintendo, I wanted to make something different, a challenge, and one of my favorite things to do (in a hack esspecially) is to imediatly see how far I can run nto a heat room, it doesn't mean stop and turn around for me. so I wanted to put that in my hack, why, cause its cahllenging.

I appreciate all critisism, I do =) I'm glad that people love it. I am also happy for people who don't like it, simply because at leaste they tried.

Saber, as for explaining how to get through norfair, I do, in the read me, I say to keep running. I would have text plms that type out clues, but at the moment thats not possible

Firstly, I know people hate it, but alot of people also love it, hells run while difficult, is a challenge that alot of players have told me they like.  as for my beta testers, sure they died a few times, making rmoe progress each time, but by the time they made it to the save room, they had no difficulty getting ice and getting back.  had they had a difficult time I would have changed it around to make it easier, but they felt it was a perfect amount of difficulty.

As for being impossible for unskilled players, yes this is a difficult part, but its the first of only 2 obsticles that requires absolut precision.

no, I am not nintendo, I wanted to make something different, a challenge, and one of my favorite things to do (in a hack esspecially)  is to imediatly see how far I can run nto a heat room, it doesn't mean stop and turn around for me.  so I wanted to put that in my hack, why, cause its cahllenging.

I appreciate all critisism, I do =)  I'm glad that people love it.  I am also happy for people who don't like it, simply because at leaste they tried.

Saber, as for explaining how to get through norfair, I do, in the read me, I say to keep running.  I would have text plms that type out clues, but at the moment thats not possible

nitetrain8

2006-05-21 09:09:35 pm

Well if someone tells me how to record movies at low quality instead of 60fps then I'd make a movie of it- I have a .smv made of the run from the norfair elevator to the save station but .smv's can't be uploaded here and I tried to convert it to .avi but its like 20 megabytes and the video is only 1:39 x.x

it should appear on [url]www.putfile.com/nitetrain8[/url] in a few minutes- I have the 20 mb version uploading for anyone desparate enough to use it -.-

nate

2006-05-21 09:16:59 pm

oops, sorry. you should be able to upload .smv files now.

Blackdrake1

2006-05-21 09:34:54 pm

Ridley!

How do I get the ZSNES Emulator needed for it?

arkarian

2006-05-21 09:39:59 pm

red chamber dream

Here.

nitetrain8

2006-05-21 11:05:21 pm

Quote from nate:

oops, sorry. you should be able to upload .smv files now.

:D

unheadered btw

attachment:

hell'srunpart1.smv

Sigfriedxx

2006-05-21 11:13:05 pm

you can also download atmas 2:11 run at http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/forum/viewtopic.php?p=81719#81719

it shows the route of a normal first time playthrough, forthe most part, well, minus the guardian getting

Blackdrake1

2006-05-22 05:01:24 pm

Ridley!

Ok that was scary I thought I would never get out of Ceres, but I made it. :) I'm like whoa! 30 seconds? Using the run button and being careful with your jumps really helps. By the way, it works fine on 1.36. I just landed on Zebes and I'm like whoa! This looks way more different than I remember it being.

moozooh

2006-05-22 07:18:10 pm

Quote from Infinity's End:

Nintendo would never do something like this to you. Ever. And they never will, either. Nintendo knows when something is too frustrating for a player; knows how to perfectly balance gameplay and challenge.

Why of course Nintendo knows everything.

That's why we got a sloppy and absolutely straightforward Fusion. What, exploration, sequence breaks? Hell no. Nintendo knows it's far too challenging and frustrating and stuff (losing health while performing a shinespark was especially frustrating). Nintendo knows we don't need it. And no advanced tricks as well, they're too frustrating to perform. A perfect balance!

Then we got a still sloppy (shinespark, anyone?) and severely dumbed down version of Super Metroid, based on Fusion's physics and NES Metroid's interior. Its name was Zero Mission. Nintendo understood that Fusion lacked some features that actually were... good. Ok, no problem -- IBJ'ing never was easier than this, sequence breaks were all around. I don't think many of us spent more than 6 hours on first completion. Obviously, Nintendo knows that long games are frustrating and unbalanced as well.

That's why I loved this hack much more than any of Nintendo's recent works. None of them could immerse me into an atmosphere of both mental and physical challenge that kept me playing for many hours in a row, and the action still went on. During the Zebes escape, I felt my heartbeat rate doubled. I was so extremely happy when I finally reached the ship.

Sadly, of many things that Nintendo obviously knows, I think this one is now beyond their comprehension. Now that's really frustrating.

[quote="Infinity's End"]Nintendo would never do something like this to you.  Ever.  And they never will, either.  Nintendo knows when something is too frustrating for a player;  knows how to perfectly balance gameplay and challenge.[/quote]
Why of course Nintendo knows everything.

That's why we got a sloppy and absolutely straightforward Fusion. What, exploration, sequence breaks? Hell no. Nintendo knows it's far too challenging and frustrating and stuff (losing health while performing a shinespark was especially frustrating). Nintendo knows we don't need it. And no advanced tricks as well, they're too frustrating to perform. A perfect balance!

Then we got a still sloppy (shinespark, anyone?) and severely dumbed down version of Super Metroid, based on Fusion's physics and NES Metroid's interior. Its name was Zero Mission. Nintendo understood that Fusion lacked some features that actually were... good. Ok, no problem -- IBJ'ing never was easier than this, sequence breaks were all around. I don't think many of us spent more than 6 hours on first completion. Obviously, Nintendo knows that long games are frustrating and unbalanced as well.

That's why I loved this hack [b]much[/b] more than any of Nintendo's recent works. None of them could immerse me into an atmosphere of both mental and physical challenge that kept me playing for many hours in a row, and the action still went on. During the Zebes escape, I felt my heartbeat rate doubled. I was so extremely happy when I finally reached the ship.

Sadly, of many things that Nintendo [i]obviously knows[/i], I think this one is now beyond their comprehension. Now [i]that's[/i] really frustrating.

Blackdrake1

2006-05-22 09:03:37 pm

Ridley!

Why I felt the same way escaping from Ceres Station. I almost didn't make it, and my heart was pounding as I was escaping that place. All that running and jumping now that would give Samus a gould workout before she reaches Zebes when you have to do that within 30 seconds.

Infinity's End

2006-05-22 11:48:20 pm

:'(:'(:'(

am I just insane... or is this completely wrong?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/Infinitysend12180/SuperMetroidRedesign_000.png
I tried to bomb jump off of the little guy, but it seems like I keep hitting an invisible ceiling that won't let me go higher. So this makes me think I'm not doing the right thing.

And also - some of the level design in this game is really whack. I mean jesus - it's not good at all. And then other times it's wonderful. Sometimes you missed the mark, I think.
Like how you can be completely underwater in one room, and then the next room you're in dry, heat-inducing Norfair... o_O

I'm trying to have the patience to go through this, little by little, but it's very irksome at times.