Super Metroid controls suck compared to GBA

2007-08-25 06:59:32 pm

Right, well I've played all the Primes bar #3 and I've played Fusion and ZM.

I downloaded SM from the VC after eager anticipation and I did expect something akin to those two control wise. With 2 buttons more however, the game fails to live up to the fluidity that they gave you.

I know it's older, but how can a set up be so clumsy anyway? Sure the dash is actually needless - just make her that fast anyway, but seriously, how can you run, shoot and jump? OK, so you can rearrange the buttons but if you want to place run onto a shoulder button then for some bizarrely inexplicable reason, you can't map that shoulder's function to A, B, X or Y and so diagonal static aiming is compromised.

I've read about using the GC pad but I like playing the game on a pad similar to the one they were intended for (classic control), plus the D-pad's much better.

On top of that we've got 'select' for missile<->beam assignment. Where you just had to hold the shoulder button for Fusion and ZM, you're constantly chopping and changing between shot types and oh look - you've taken damage again whilst messing around with them.

How do you all get on (or did get on with the SNES version)?

Thread title:

Right, well I've played all the Primes bar #3 and I've played Fusion and ZM.

I downloaded SM from the VC after eager anticipation and I did expect something akin to those two control wise.  With 2 buttons more however, the game fails to live up to the fluidity that they gave you.

I know it's older, but how can a set up be so clumsy anyway?  Sure the dash is actually needless - just make her that fast anyway, but seriously, how can you run, shoot and jump?  OK, so you can rearrange the buttons but if you want to place run onto a shoulder button then for some bizarrely inexplicable reason, you can't map that shoulder's function to A, B, X or Y and so diagonal static aiming is compromised.

I've read about using the GC pad but I like playing the game on a pad similar to the one they were intended for (classic control), plus the D-pad's much better.

On top of that we've got 'select' for missile<->beam assignment.  Where you just had to hold the shoulder button for Fusion and ZM, you're constantly chopping and changing between shot types and oh look - you've taken damage again whilst messing around with them.

How do you all get on (or did get on with the SNES version)?

nate

2007-08-25 07:05:46 pm

Quote from groovemeister:

I've read about using the GC pad but I like playing the game on a pad similar to the one they were intended for (classic control), plus the D-pad's much better.

i think your problem lies in this sentence: you have made an assumption (a false one by my count) that the way the game was originally intended to be played is how it is best played. it's pretty much common knowledge that super metroid's controls suck, especially with the defaults.

the controls were changed in fusion for a reason. don't forget which one came first.

groovemeister

2007-08-25 07:07:47 pm

The way people refer to it i's pit on this kind of pedestal of perfection much like Zelda ALttP (which deserves it IMO).

nate

2007-08-25 07:10:18 pm

yes, it's the best metroid game, and metroid prime is just super metroid in 3d.

but that doesn't mean the controls don't suck.

072

2007-08-25 07:17:30 pm

coral to complement blue

I prefer Super's controls over the other 2d games... but that's probably because I got used to them 5 or 6 years before the others came out.

It is very simple to press three buttons at one time with your thumb, and you can use your index finger for item select.

the wicked child

2007-08-25 08:01:45 pm

The controls suck by default, but you can map them to best suit your playing style. After a quick adjustment of the controls, they are more than adequate, IMO... I can't imagine playing with the default settings.

I use:

Y - shoot
B- Jump
A - dash
x - item select
select - item cancel

and it works great. That control system feels extremely natural to me after playing the Mega Man X games.

arkarian

2007-08-25 09:10:24 pm

red chamber dream

I downloaded SM the other day and am actually enjoying it a good bit more than I did when I last played it on the SNES. I'm using the Classic Controller (had to go out and buy one-- neither it nor SMW would work with the 'Cube controller for some reason) and it works very nicely; think I probably like it more than the GBA.

Tahngarthor

2007-08-25 10:37:23 pm

Bangaa Bishop

My only real qualm with the controls is dashing should be automatic; it would be a million times easier to shoot stuff in your path when you're building up speed before you hit blue suit mode.

nate

2007-08-25 10:48:27 pm

a lot of techniques came out of optional dashing ...

UberMetroid

2007-08-25 11:00:04 pm

Quote from Tahngarthor:

My only real qualm with the controls is dashing should be automatic; it would be a million times easier to shoot stuff in your path when you're building up speed before you hit blue suit mode.

Back in the day you had to be able to dash, change weapons, jump, shoot with out any short cuts.

And I also walked uphill in the snow to and from school each day. With no shoes on.

Sigfriedxx

2007-08-26 12:15:06 am

you don't need to hold the run button while jumping and or shooting. in SM once you reach max running speed you can let go of dash adn samus runs full speed still, allowing you to then jump and shoot/aim and do complex shit.

Now when and how the hell can I get an easier version of Redesign on VC/WiiWare?

nate

2007-08-26 12:34:47 am

after we take over the world.

no joke.

arkarian

2007-08-26 12:49:23 am

red chamber dream

Quote from nate:

a lot of techniques came out of optional dashing ...

Isn't it also used to charge a Shinespark? Haven't played SM in forever, but that's the main reason I can think of.

Or wait, is it just charging the Speed Boots that activates a Shinespark?

nate

2007-08-26 01:03:39 am

sort of. for the pros it's a bit more complicated.

http://www.metroid2002.com/3/techniques_quick_charge.php

Tahngarthor

2007-08-26 01:14:11 am

Bangaa Bishop

Quote from nate:

sort of. for the pros it's a bit more complicated.

http://www.metroid2002.com/3/techniques_quick_charge.php

If the game didnt continue to play out until you were totally at the map/samus screen, you could probably do it by enabling/disbling the speedbooster (if dashing was permanent)

Quote from Sigfriedxx:

you don't need to hold the run button while jumping and or shooting. in SM once you reach max running speed you can let go of dash adn samus runs full speed still, allowing you to then jump and shoot/aim and do complex gunship.

Now when and how the hell can I get an easier version of Redesign on VC/WiiWare?

Wouldnt it be theoretically possible to patch the VC game copied to a gamecard? Assuming people have figured out the data structure for those files. (I'm assuming that the ROM data is in some kind of encrypted container which also contains the wii channel data)

groovemeister

2007-08-26 06:30:47 am

Quote from the wicked child:

The controls suck by default, but you can map them to best suit your playing style. After a quick adjustment of the controls, they are more than adequate, IMO... I can't imagine playing with the default settings.

I use:

Y - shoot
B- Jump
A - dash
x - item select
select - item cancel

That's what I've done except for X and select are other other way.

I'll swap them over - I suppose hitting X rather than select is much easier. Can I ask what item cancel does and what the auto option is all about?

Quote from Tahngarthor:

Quote from nate:

sort of. for the pros it's a bit more complicated.

http://www.metroid2002.com/3/techniques_quick_charge.php

If the game didnt continue to play out until you were totally at the map/samus screen, you could probably do it by enabling/disbling the speedbooster (if dashing was permanent)

Um, what? Can I ask what you mean?

Quote from Tahngarthor:

Quote from Sigfriedxx:

you don't need to hold the run button while jumping and or shooting. in SM once you reach max running speed you can let go of dash adn samus runs full speed still, allowing you to then jump and shoot/aim and do complex gunship.

Now when and how the hell can I get an easier version of Redesign on VC/WiiWare?

Wouldnt it be theoretically possible to patch the VC game copied to a gamecard? Assuming people have figured out the data structure for those files. (I'm assuming that the ROM data is in some kind of encrypted container which also contains the wii channel data)

That'd be interesting. Imagine the kind of mods you could have, as well as homebrew.

This comes back to Nintendo's attitude to the VC though; no clean ups whatsoever. If it were re-released as a handheld title, the dash would be automatic for sure.

What about a Nintendo made Wiiware item that lets you edit games and you can transfer the mod file (but not the ROM itself) to friends to use also, which would discourage the hacking community (although there will always be the hardcore types as they'll only allow certain kinds of editing I'd imagine)? Makes perfect sense - won't happen though.

RE running, shooting and jumping, well yes you do need to plenty of time, basically because running all the time gets you through the game quicker!

[quote="the wicked child"]The controls suck by default, but you can map them to best suit your playing style. After a quick adjustment of the controls, they are more than adequate, IMO... I can't imagine playing with the default settings.

I use:

Y - shoot
B- Jump
A - dash
x - item select
select - item cancel[/quote]That's what I've done except for X and select are other other way.

I'll swap them over - I suppose hitting X rather than select is much easier.  Can I ask what item cancel does and what the auto option is all about?

[quote="Tahngarthor"][quote="nate"]sort of. for the pros it's a bit more complicated.

http://www.metroid2002.com/3/techniques_quick_charge.php[/quote]

If the game didnt continue to play out until you were totally at the map/samus screen, you could probably do it by enabling/disbling the speedbooster (if dashing was permanent)[/quote]Um, what?  Can I ask what you mean?

[quote="Tahngarthor"][quote="Sigfriedxx"]you don't need to hold the run button while jumping and or shooting.  in SM once  you reach max running speed you can let go of dash adn samus runs full speed still, allowing you to then jump and shoot/aim and do complex gunship.

Now when and how the hell can I get an easier version of Redesign on VC/WiiWare?[/quote]

Wouldnt it be theoretically possible to patch the VC game copied to a gamecard? Assuming people have figured out the data structure for those files. (I'm assuming that the ROM data is in some kind of encrypted container which also contains the wii channel data)[/quote]That'd be interesting.  Imagine the kind of mods you could have, as well as homebrew.

This comes back to Nintendo's attitude to the VC though; no clean ups whatsoever.  If it were re-released as a handheld title, the dash would be automatic for sure.

What about a Nintendo made Wiiware item that lets you edit games and you can transfer the mod file (but not the ROM itself) to friends to use also, which would discourage the hacking community (although there will always be the hardcore types as they'll only allow certain kinds of editing I'd imagine)?  Makes perfect sense - won't happen though.

RE running, shooting and jumping, well yes you do need to plenty of time, basically because running all the time gets you through the game quicker!

JaggerG

2007-08-26 06:44:15 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Yes.

>_> Okay fine. Item cancel selects Beams automatically, instead of cycling through missiles, super missiles, peanut butter, X-ray vi...scope, and snapple beam. I don't recall an "auto" option, though. Closest thing I can think of is the option in the pause menu to use reserve tanks automatically or manually.

groovemeister

2007-08-26 07:03:44 am

Sorry, item cancel selects beams? Er, what? How can a cancel function select something? :S

On the config screen there is an option to moonwalk and there is also an auto item cancel option.

JaggerG

2007-08-26 07:50:24 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

More accurately, it deselects a special item selection, letting you use beams again instead of grapple object, missiles, and shields. Instead of toggling through the items, you go back to the default selection (or lack of selection if you insist). I count normal shooting as a selection. >_>

I'm guessing the auto-cancel option cancels the selection as soon as you use it? Like if you hit select immediately after a PB/xray/grapple? It sounds painful to have on during boss battles if it does indeed cancel super missiles, too.

groovemeister

2007-08-26 08:16:35 am

Ah... because the e-manuals are useless (and omit the lovely artwork of old), I checked out the SNES manual online.

It says that special functions cancel when you go through the next door. Not a bad idea.

UberMetroid

2007-08-26 09:45:09 am

auto selects beam when you walk through doors

Tahngarthor

2007-08-26 09:50:26 am

Bangaa Bishop

what I meant earlier was this... When you press start, the pause screen doesnt appear instantly, it takes about a second to fade in. While it's fading in, the game action isn't frozen i.e. you and enemies keep moving. Once the pause screen has fully appeared, the game is paused.

Gaius_4

2007-08-26 10:40:55 am

I prefer to have a weapon at the ready for the next room, in anticipation for my next action/s. Like if I open a door with a Super Missle, then the next item I'd need to have ready would be a Power Bomb, so after I'd use the s.missle, I'll switch over the to PB, so-on and so-forth. Rolling Eyes

I use a Saturn Pad (mostly for fighting games) but when using it for SM... I always have the tip of my thumb on (B) for dash, and use (C) for jump and press it by rolling the joint... of my thumb :P over it to press it. Here's where it might seem uncomfortable for some people. I use my index finger to fire with the (Z) button, but I press it with the side of my finger in a scratching motion. I mostly use my middle finger for the Right Shoulder button. For item select I have the (A) button set up for that. I can use my thumb while still holding dash (but it's slow), or I can reach over with my index finger (for much faster selection). For item cancel I could press with my thumb or touch with my index finger.

I was thinking of a way to set-up a different configuration just the other day. I even tried it with a PS1 pad. I prefered the analog stick to control Samus, (mach ball was a breeze!) yet wall jumping seemed impossible. In the end I had to go back to the Saturn pad. aiwebs_008

Now that I think about it... I don't have to keep holding dash when selecting another item. Because whenever I do that... I'm usually doing a space jump over some acid on the way to Ridley's Play Pen.... Of doom! Or Space Jumping on the way over to the Eye door before MB. :o

edit: *wonders if he should've posted ^this here* :|

I prefer to have a weapon at the ready for the next room, in anticipation for my next action/s.  Like if I open a door with a Super Missle, then the next item I'd need to have ready would be a Power Bomb, so after I'd use the s.missle, I'll switch over the to PB, so-on and so-forth.  :roll:

I use a Saturn Pad (mostly for fighting games) but when using it for SM...  I always have the tip of my thumb on (B) for dash, and use (C) for jump and press it by rolling the joint...  of my [i]thumb[/i]  :P  over it to press it.  Here's where it might seem uncomfortable for some people.  I use my index finger to fire with the (Z) button, but I press it with the side of my finger in a scratching motion.  I mostly use my middle finger for the Right Shoulder button.  For item select I have the (A) button set up for that.  I can use my thumb while still holding dash (but it's slow), or I can reach over with my index finger (for much faster selection).  For item cancel I could press with my thumb or touch with my index finger.

I was thinking of a way to set-up a different configuration just the other day.  I even tried it with a PS1 pad.  I prefered the analog stick to control Samus, (mach ball was a breeze!) yet wall jumping seemed impossible.  In the end I had to go back to the Saturn pad.   [aiwebs_008]

Now that I think about it...  I don't have to keep holding dash when selecting another item.  Because whenever I do that...  I'm usually doing a space jump over some acid on the way to Ridley's Play Pen....  [size=7px]Of doom![/size]  Or Space Jumping on the way over to the Eye door before MB.  :o

edit: *wonders if he should've posted ^this [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6367]here[/url]*  :|

dave

2007-08-26 10:42:35 pm

My control scheme that I use:

Run: L
Aim Up: R
Aim Down: None
Shot: A
Jump: B
Item Cancel: X
Item Select: Y

Keep in mind you can do the vast majority of all speed tricks without having a button assigned to aim down. It isn't worth having item cancel as the select button just to have aim down as another button.

JaggerG

2007-08-27 12:14:00 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

...you can do that? I thought the trigger buttons could only be used for aiming or something. Is it just that aiming can only be the trigger buttons and that's it?