Metroid Science

2004-04-04 04:37:30 pm

Cook of the Sea

That's what the blacksmith says to people when he's trying to sell his swords.

**Reads the above**

Jeez, that was stupid, wasn't it?

Metroid Prime

2004-04-04 04:39:07 pm

Pun. Awesome pun.

NOT!!!

MetalRidley

2004-04-05 07:20:27 pm

Here's a question: how does Ridley fly? Except for Prime, his wings are always in the wrong place and way too small. Also, even given Meta's wings are big enough, how does he hover?

My guess is that he probably has some body cavity filled with a floating gas, and his wings are more for guidance and propulsion. Like the zerg Overlords from Starcraft. As for meta, he probably has some hover rockets implanted in him, too.

PessimistByNature

2004-04-06 10:31:06 am

Good question. There's always the possiblity that gravity is not as great on the other planets or that the atmosphere is denser on the other planets. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but in most of the 2d games, you fight him in a lava filled room (fusion being an exception.) Along with the other two possibilites, he might harness the thermals generated by the heat.

Mr. Chess

2004-04-06 01:25:56 pm

New question: how do the suit upgrades work? i.e., how does the Gravity Suit "fix" underwater movement, prevent lava damage, etc.?

skynes

2004-04-06 03:15:04 pm

My Chess that is an excellent question. I'll take some time to think about it.

chinchillax13514

2004-04-06 08:03:10 pm

Maybe the Gravity Suit...uh...um...gives you gills and fins.

Syl

2004-04-06 08:10:24 pm

Samus suit has one place that definately seems the strongest, her chest piece. It never comes off, even in fusion.

The Varia suit just adds armor to the less protected area's of her suit, allowing her to not feel the effects of the heat or cold, or allow them to damage her vital suit functions. Maybe those 2 giant shoulder pads act as some sort of heat sink, where it absorbs all of the hot or cold air, and keeps them away from vital parts.

The gravity suit though, well, it obviously involves gravity. O_o;

chinchillax13514

2004-04-06 08:23:50 pm

I always thought the shoulder pads were just kinda climate control systems. That or one contains hot air, the other cold, and it releases whatever it needs to keep Samus at a good body temperature.

PessimistByNature

2004-04-06 08:53:10 pm

There are three possiblites for the gravity suit.

1) It adds some kind of stable cavitation field, which continues to work even when not at high speeds. Cavitation, if you don't know what it is, is basically a method that creates a cavity of gas around an object underwater, thus eliminating water resistance.
I believe this technology was invented by the Russians, but i might be wrong there. Anyway, the cavitation is normally accomplished with a blunt head. There have been cavitating bullets designed that are as fast in the air as they are in the water. However, this, so far, only works at high speeds. That, and when you step out of the water in MP, water drains off the visor, which would never have touched the water if it was cavitation technology.

2) Some kind of covering that reduces water resistance. I know it is found on dolphins, but I can't for the life of me remember whether it was hair, a special type of skin, or what.

3) A static covering of oil. I'm not sure, but I think that might repel the water away from the suit, thus also eliminating water resistance. I know it works on stationary objects, but I am unsure about its use on mobile objects.

4) Perhaps steam or some other form of gas created by the Power Suit's generator is exhausted out, thus forming a gas filled bubble around Samus. However, there would have to be a VERY large amount of outlets for this to work, and it also probably wouldn't work for the same reason as the first theory.

Now, real gravity is not my specialty, I'll let someone else explain how it combats artificial gravity.

There are three possiblites for the gravity suit.

1)  It adds some kind of stable cavitation field, which continues to work even when not at high speeds.  Cavitation, if you don't know what it is, is basically a method that creates a cavity of gas around an object underwater, thus eliminating water resistance.  
I believe this technology was invented by the Russians, but i might be wrong there.  Anyway, the cavitation is normally accomplished with a blunt head.  There have been cavitating bullets designed that are as fast in the air as they are in the water.  However, this, so far, only works at high speeds.  That, and when you step out of the water in MP, water drains off the visor, which would never have touched the water if it was cavitation technology.

2)  Some kind of covering that reduces water resistance.  I know it is found on dolphins, but I can't for the life of me remember whether it was hair, a special type of skin, or what.

3)  A static covering of oil.  I'm not sure, but I think that might repel the water away from the suit, thus also eliminating water resistance.  I know it works on stationary objects, but I am unsure about its use on mobile objects.

4)  Perhaps steam or some other form of gas created by the Power Suit's generator is exhausted out, thus forming a gas filled bubble around Samus.  However, there would have to be a VERY large amount of outlets for this to work, and it also probably wouldn't work for the same reason as the first theory.

Now, real gravity is not my specialty, I'll let someone else explain how it combats artificial gravity.

Mr. Chess

2004-04-06 09:23:14 pm

[what I think is a really stupid question] You think it has anything to do with the purple hue? [/what I think is a really stupid question]

PessimistByNature

2004-04-07 09:11:04 pm

Of course! It's so obvious! I have figured out how the gravity suit works! It IS caused by that purple hue! And why is that purple hue there?

Because you touch yourself at night. Every stupid question deserves a stupid answer ^_^

Mr. Chess

2004-04-08 04:11:13 pm

Quote from PessimistByNature:

Of course! It's so obvious! I have figured out how the gravity suit works! It IS caused by that purple hue! And why is that purple hue there?

Because you touch yourself at night. Every stupid question deserves a stupid answer ^_^

Ok, we think it may be caused by that purple hue... Two questions. 1: How does the purple hue cause it, and 2: Why is the purple hue actually there?

skynes

2004-04-08 04:29:54 pm

Maybe when in water her suit converts her whole body into semi-energy. Enough solidity to take damage and inflict damage but enough energy so that water would pass right through her allowing her to move unhindered.

Mr. Chess

2004-04-08 04:34:49 pm

So, basically you're saying that underwater, she's half solid, half energy.

Blublu

2004-04-08 06:29:26 pm

Hmm, remember that pirate data about when the space pirates were trying to imitate Samus' morph ball? Heh, they couldn't understand it either.

Anyway, what I wonder is, in the 2D metroid games, when Samus is sommersault jumping, how the HELL can she see where she is going? Especially after getting the space jump ability. At least she could theoretically look at her surroundings before making each jump, thus knowing where she will land, etc, if she has no spacejump. But when she can jump an infinite amount of times, effectively enabling her to fly, and spinning at a ridicilus speed, I wonder how she can see where she is going, and how she can maintain her balance after landing.

I think there are no answers, just like there aren't any answers to "why does Mario grow large when eating mushrooms, and why can he break huge blocks of bricks by jumping into them, and why does he get the ability to shoot fireballs if he eats a flower?"

The only explanation for the morph ball is if Samus + suit gives her T1000-like abilities, ie she can meld herself into any form she wishes. Then she uses sound waves to detect her surroundings when she's in ball-form (kindalike bats). And she has tiny little propulsion devices in the ball, which can propel her forwards (this is why the ball always tries to go "forwards" instead of just rolling in any direction. I don't know it anyone understands what I mean but bleh. Of course, that just brings up further questions.

Hmm, remember that pirate data about when the space pirates were trying to imitate Samus' morph ball? Heh, they couldn't understand it either.

Anyway, what I wonder is, in the 2D metroid games, when Samus is sommersault jumping, how the HELL can she see where she is going? Especially after getting the space jump ability. At least she could theoretically look at her surroundings before making each jump, thus knowing where she will land, etc, if she has no spacejump. But when she can jump an infinite amount of times, effectively enabling her to fly, and spinning at a ridicilus speed, I wonder how she can see where she is going, and how she can maintain her balance after landing.

I think there are no answers, just like there aren't any answers to "why does Mario grow large when eating mushrooms, and why can he break huge blocks of bricks by jumping into them, and why does he get the ability to shoot fireballs if he eats a flower?"

The only explanation for the morph ball is if Samus + suit gives her T1000-like abilities, ie she can meld herself into any form she wishes. Then she uses sound waves to detect her surroundings when she's in ball-form (kindalike bats). And she has tiny little propulsion devices in the ball, which can propel her forwards (this is why the ball always tries to go "forwards" instead of just rolling in any direction. I don't know it anyone understands what I mean but bleh. Of course, that just brings up further questions.

skynes

2004-04-09 09:23:38 am

Theory on Space Jump:

The suit is linked to Samus' brain, what the suit sees, Samus sees. the suit has built in scanners that send the information to Samus' brain. Thus allowing her to 'see' in all directions. Could also be why she can 'see' when in Morph Ball mode.

Rox

2004-04-09 09:40:47 am

Quote from Mr. Chess:

So, basically you're saying that underwater, she's half solid, half energy.

"First he creates hangovers, then half-women, half-sharks. Thanks for nothing, God!"

SABERinBLUE

2004-04-09 01:12:40 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from PessimistByNature:

1) It adds some kind of stable cavitation field, which continues to work even when not at high speeds. Cavitation, if you don't know what it is, is basically a method that creates a cavity of gas around an object underwater, thus eliminating water resistance.
I believe this technology was invented by the Russians, but i might be wrong there. Anyway, the cavitation is normally accomplished with a blunt head. There have been cavitating bullets designed that are as fast in the air as they are in the water. However, this, so far, only works at high speeds. That, and when you step out of the water in MP, water drains off the visor, which would never have touched the water if it was cavitation technology.

Hmmm, it's been awhile since I read The Hunt for Red October, but I thought that cavitation was a little different than that. I dunno.

A thought. The only cosmetic difference between the Gravity Suit and the Varia Suit besides the color is the addition of some things on the arms and legs, I think. Here's my thing: I think the Gravity Suit just has some gravity field generators that turn on automatically when Samus enters the water. That makes her sink as fast as falling. And then her physical strength is enhanced so she can jump like normal to counteract the water resistance. The added weight would not be noticable underwater because the water was working to keep her bouyant before, but the water resistence would make it more difficult to move. The added strength would let her cut through the water resistance, both vertically and laterally, and the added weight would give her the traction she needs underwater.

[quote="PessimistByNature"]1)  It adds some kind of stable cavitation field, which continues to work even when not at high speeds.  Cavitation, if you don't know what it is, is basically a method that creates a cavity of gas around an object underwater, thus eliminating water resistance.  
I believe this technology was invented by the Russians, but i might be wrong there.  Anyway, the cavitation is normally accomplished with a blunt head.  There have been cavitating bullets designed that are as fast in the air as they are in the water.  However, this, so far, only works at high speeds.  That, and when you step out of the water in MP, water drains off the visor, which would never have touched the water if it was cavitation technology.[/quote]

Hmmm, it's been awhile since I read The Hunt for Red October, but I thought that cavitation was a little different than that.  I dunno.

A thought.  The only cosmetic difference between the Gravity Suit and the Varia Suit besides the color is the addition of some things on the arms and legs, I think.  Here's my thing:  I think the Gravity Suit just has some gravity field generators that turn on automatically when Samus enters the water.  That makes her sink as fast as falling.  And then her physical strength is enhanced so she can jump like normal to counteract the water resistance.  The added weight would not be noticable underwater because the water was working to keep her bouyant before, but the water resistence would make it more difficult to move.  The added strength would let her cut through the water resistance, both vertically and laterally, and the added weight would give her the traction she needs underwater.

PessimistByNature

2004-04-09 04:11:14 pm

http://www.sciam.com/search/index.cfm?QT=Q&SC=Q&Q=cavitation

Everything you would ever want to know about cavitation.

SABERinBLUE

2004-04-11 02:54:27 pm

Cook of the Sea

I see...

MetalRidley

2004-04-11 08:14:42 pm

I don't think there's any need for cavitation or other normal physics. I think we can assume that the gravity suit uses super ultra magic gravity-reducing powers to make the suit lighter in water. Right now, we have no idea how gravity might be artificially reduced in any way, so its kinda pointless to speculate on how it might work.

Why the suit couldn't be used for flying out of water as well (what with the reduced gravity) is beyond me.

New question: how does the space jump work? Maybe it just improves Samus' suit boosters, letting them go an indefinite number of times.

PessimistByNature

2004-04-11 10:25:26 pm

See, the problem isn't gravity, it's water resistance. It doesn't matter how light or heavy you are. As long as you have the same surface area, you have the same water resistance. And water resistance is what slows her down.

And for the space jump, I don't think just letting them go an indefinite amount of times would let her space jump. The suit needs to know when to fire the boosters. Otherwise, Samus might spin jump, fire the boosters once, and slam into the ground. Not very useful, mobility wise. Also, it's pretty much safe to assume that Samus spins faster with space jump, no? Perhaps the space jump uses part of that rotational energy to produce thrust. Once Samus is in the air, due to momentum, she'd continue to spin indefitely. Then the suit just uses a simple program to decide exactly when to fire the boosters, and there you have it, space jump.

And I know that there is probably yet unkown physics involved in all of these. It's just more fun to try and think of ways to make it work now than to say "it's magic/unkown science."

See, the problem isn't gravity, it's water resistance.  It doesn't matter how light or heavy you are.  As long as you have the same surface area, you have the same water resistance.  And water resistance is what slows her down.

And for the space jump, I don't think just letting them go an indefinite amount of times would let her space jump.  The suit needs to know [b]when[/b] to fire the boosters.  Otherwise, Samus might spin jump, fire the boosters once, and slam into the ground.  Not very useful, mobility wise.  Also, it's pretty much safe to assume that Samus spins faster with space jump, no?  Perhaps the space jump uses part of that rotational energy to produce thrust.  Once Samus is in the air, due to momentum, she'd continue to spin indefitely.  Then the suit just uses a simple program to decide exactly when to fire the boosters, and there you have it, space jump.

And I know that there is probably yet unkown physics involved in all of these.  It's just more fun to try and think of ways to make it work now than to say "it's magic/unkown science."

skynes

2004-04-12 10:09:19 am

In ALL Metroid games when using the Space Jump you must hit jump around the exact same time (just below the peak of your jump) the suit could be programmed to fire the thrusters at that time.

In Prime you can see jets on Samus' back. It could be these enhanced that allow her to Space Jump (though for some reason it's her boots that change :S)

------------------------------------------------------------------

Gravity suit: Is it possible that the suit creates an energy field around Samus that could be adjusted depending circumstances and thus doing different things?

1. To create a field of cold air around Samus, protecting her from heat and fire (Varia suit)

2. Create a replusion field of gravity to push water away from her, also mildly pushes stuff that hurts Samus away, though not enough to stop the damage (Gravity suit)

When combined with Varia, the suit will repel damaging materials as well as reducing heat damage, making her immune to lava (sh's not actually 'touching' the lava due to gravity suit and the intense heat is prevented by Varia)

3. Create an electrical field around Samus charged by her rotation spin, this electrical field critically damages anything it comes into contact with (Screw Attack)

4. Create a one shot repulsion blast downward, propelling Samus higher into the air than normal (High Jump)

5. Creating multiple repulsion blasts propelling Samus upward near indefinitely (Space Jump), these multiple blasts take time to charge and thus can only be used in a series of burst....... burst....... burst..... etc.

6. Absorption of Phazon causes the suit to adapt to this radioactive energy, giving the suit a Phazon 'coat' protecting the internal circuitry from damage.

I like this idea. It seems to make sense for multiple things.
I used the idea before that her arm cannon can manipulate different forms of energy, this idea could be transferred to her suit as well which allows her to do the above stuff.

In ALL Metroid games when using the Space Jump you must hit jump around the exact same time (just below the peak of your jump) the suit could be programmed to fire the thrusters at that time.

In Prime you can see jets on Samus' back. It could be these enhanced that allow her to Space Jump (though for some reason it's her boots that change :S)

------------------------------------------------------------------

[b]Gravity suit[/b]: Is it possible that the suit creates an energy field around Samus that could be adjusted depending circumstances and thus doing different things?

[b]1[/b]. To create a field of cold air around Samus, protecting her from heat and fire (Varia suit)

[b]2[/b]. Create a replusion field of gravity to push water away from her, also mildly pushes stuff that hurts Samus away, though not enough to stop the damage (Gravity suit)

When combined with Varia, the suit will repel damaging materials as well as reducing heat damage, making her immune to lava (sh's not actually 'touching' the lava due to gravity suit and the intense heat is prevented by Varia)

[b]3[/b]. Create an electrical field around Samus charged by her rotation spin, this electrical field critically damages anything it comes into contact with (Screw Attack)

[b]4[/b]. Create a one shot repulsion blast downward, propelling Samus higher into the air than normal (High Jump)

[b]5[/b]. Creating multiple repulsion blasts propelling Samus upward near indefinitely (Space Jump), these multiple blasts take time to charge and thus can only be used in a series of burst....... burst....... burst..... etc.

[b]6[/b]. Absorption of Phazon causes the suit to adapt to this radioactive energy, giving the suit a Phazon 'coat' protecting the internal circuitry from damage.

I like this idea. It seems to make sense for multiple things.
I used the idea before that her arm cannon can manipulate different forms of energy, this idea could be transferred to her suit as well which allows her to do the above stuff.

PessimistByNature

2004-04-12 04:28:41 pm

Hm...Not bad. It would also explain why Samus scans switches and the like instead of just reaching over and pressing it. However, the ever-annoying water dripping off visor agains puts a stump in it. I mean, I know it LOOKS pretty, but it causes so many problems Evil or Very Mad