Speed tricks topic

2005-01-04 10:48:43 pm

cool stuff sparky,

btw hows your speedrun comming along?

2005-01-05 04:27:17 am

Quote from bartendorsparky:

a little trick i found for grapple boss: when it does its downtime thing, if you jump on the little ledge near the door where you came in, it will not do its grapple attack, and go immediately into walking mode, so that could save a second or two from the video time.

Hey, why do that? Going up that ledge make you lose time (not much, but you do) Why not just let him grapple you, then fire of a uncharged light beam shot? He gets the same stunning effect as when you shot the eye - http://www.ancoda.com/grappleguardian_45_secs.wmv then just dash around and smack his ass as usual Twisted Evil

If you get everything right, the fight will be sub 40 secs!

bartendorsparky

2005-01-05 06:12:39 am

always move fast

i thought if you did that on the final part, his back was invincible or something...i could swear thats what happened to me whenever i tried...

also, i think cutscene to cutscene is a more reliable way to time, because the boss still technically exists after the final hit, and its a much surer way to time.

jng

2005-01-05 06:28:47 am

Yeah, it seems like the best strategy for the GG is to mix ours :D You'll see a top-notch fight in my next speedrun.

Why is it safer to time like you do? It's the same thing really. Start timing when you see your HUD after the starting cutscene, then end as soon as the end cutscene starts, (ASAP when the black bars on the top and bottom of the screen show (widescreen movie feeling thingy...)

bartendorsparky

2005-01-05 02:30:35 pm

always move fast

yeah i guess they both work...but i still find cutscene to cutscene easier, so ha =p

jng

2005-01-05 02:41:09 pm

Quote from bartendorsparky:

yeah i guess they both work...but i still find cutscene to cutscene easier, so ha =p

But why time something that you don't control by yourself Rolling Eyes

bartendorsparky

2005-01-05 03:05:03 pm

always move fast

you dont control how far apart the cutscenes are?

jng

2005-01-05 03:11:29 pm

Quote from bartendorsparky:

you dont control how far apart the cutscenes are?

That's exactly what you do! You should time the time it takes to fight the boss, or else you can just add the cutscene times to the fight, why do that? They will ALWAYS be the same. TIME THE FIGHT! Time what you control, time your skills, not the cutscenes... :D

kp

2005-01-05 04:53:04 pm

so... You guys are absolutely certain that I can go to WSA at any time, perform the Kip dash, and spawn on the other side? I'm starting to think I'm trying to do it at the wrong time in my game... or something. I can consistently make at past 3/4 of the way on the map when my crosshairs disappear, and yet, I never spawn on the other side. My jump looks exactly like kips movie (except the end, where he makes it) .
I have also tried other peoples "tricks" and none of them seem to give me any extra distance. Please help me!!!

carnivore

2005-01-05 09:16:43 pm

have you tried doing it without bringing up the map? that does pause the game completely and you might end up loosing momentum

Quadraxis

2005-01-06 01:35:37 pm

I can't do it either, and I'm pretty sure I'm getting about the same distance. I've tried it at least 80 times or so. Are there any other methods for it? Maybe kip can take a video of his hand movements with some commentary, if at all possible, showing exactly how to do this? It would probably help a hell of a lot.

Edit: Note that I'm talking about WSA.

Alexar

2005-01-06 10:38:45 pm

Yes, I'm even having trouble with this trick......... And that doesn't happen often, and I'm completely sure that I've tried it over a hundred times :P.

kip

2005-01-06 11:40:47 pm

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/weird_dash.avi

I was trying to make progress on my hard 21% when I suddenly did the dash in that video. I usually either barely make it or barely miss (very inconsistent), but that's the first time I've seen anything like that. That's something more like a Prime dash in the distance.

I have no idea how I did it, I was doing the same things I do in WSA or anywhere else, besides tapping B semi-rapidly and not fully scanning the target first (no need). It would be nice if we found out how to do this, maybe it would get the distance to cross Grand Abyss, or bump against the ledges on the other side and get placed there. Sadly I don't think I'll ever understand how dashes work in this game.

Random Zelda Person

2005-01-06 11:49:06 pm

Whoa... craziness... and awesome-ness, too.

Now, we just need to replicate it. :P

ShadowJedi

2005-01-07 12:02:43 am

Kip, while being locked onto things and going off an edge, you sometimes get a little speedboost. Maybe you combined that with the dash?

kip

2005-01-07 12:38:00 am

maybe it was being hit near the start, but I hope not. The thing is, a space pirate's shot is supposed to make you lose momentum and stop moving, that's why it's frustrating to be shot when you're trying to jump from ledge to ledge.

ShadowJedi

2005-01-07 12:58:08 am

I'll test this tomorrow, if I remember it. Looking at the video in slowmotion makes me think it wasn't the shot, though, because I don't think you had lost any height at all when you were shot... And normally, I think, you lose height very quickly.

EDIT: It may just be the angle, but I think you were still gaining height when you were hit there.

Alexar

2005-01-07 01:29:52 am

I've figured out how you made a jump like that: You simply hold L on a target and you tap with simotaneously with b while jamming the joystick in any direction you desire, you don't necessarily scan the object because you skip that part, and you don't jump as nearly as far as the Kip Dash, but it lengthens your jump. Uh, since I figured this out, I get to name it right? But I'll also give you credit Kip for everything if I ever get to name it :P.

Ekarderif

2005-01-07 01:29:54 am

My theory is that he jumped slightly before the target fully locked, tricking the game into giving him the massive velocity without dropping him downward immediately.

Alexar

2005-01-07 01:49:31 am

Exactly, that's why you barely tap L so you trick the thing, and you press B at the same time making it a short dash jump. And I still need help doing the WSA...... I've been trying for a couple of hours now, and everytime I do it right, my screen turns white and I get back to where I started. Is there a specific place where you need to dash to make it at all besides going to the left? And what exactly do you do in your second jump because I've been really mad, because I do the dash just fine but the jumping is what's causing me trouble any help here?

jng

2005-01-07 03:37:52 am

Quote from kip:

http://www.metroid2002.com/kip/weird_dash.avi

I was trying to make progress on my hard 21% when I suddenly did the dash in that video. I usually either barely make it or barely miss (very inconsistent), but that's the first time I've seen anything like that. That's something more like a Prime dash in the distance.

I have no idea how I did it, I was doing the same things I do in WSA or anywhere else, besides tapping B semi-rapidly and not fully scanning the target first (no need). It would be nice if we found out how to do this, maybe it would get the distance to cross Grand Abyss, or bump against the ledges on the other side and get placed there. Sadly I don't think I'll ever understand how dashes work in this game.

Kip, Kip...the wonderfull things you do :P Let's hope you learn how to do it every time and you're my god (like you already isn't)

ShadowJedi

2005-01-07 05:42:12 am

I'll try it out before I leave for the weekend (tomorrow is my 49-years old uncle's birthday). So, I may or may not disappear for a few days and be back on sunday, or I'll be back sometime next week. If I get the chance, I will try to replicate the jump, and I hope others will do the same.
Bye for now.

kp

2005-01-07 05:10:56 pm

Regarding kip's wierd dash:

Here's what I have noticed in my screwing around trying to get across WSA: You can do the sideways dash only if you have the visor locked onto something (pressing or tapping L) at the time you tap B (This was obviously built into the game for use when fighting enemies). When you lock onto something that has already been scanned, the screen freezes immediatly and it screws up your momentum (thus, you fall sooner). The reason for this is that in order to continue your jump, you have to let go of L (and repress it again as fast as you can, as in the kip dash). When you let go of L, you immediatly begin rotating in the direction of the joystick because you are no longer locked onto anything, and thus, your dash is over.

However, when you lock onto something that has NOT already been scanned, you don't have to let up on L, meaning that your sideways dash momentum will last until you either finish scanning the item, or you hit something.

Kip got lucky (or he's just THAT good) in that the timing of his scan and jump were perfect and the momentum of the dash remained until he landed.

I did happen to notice that this will also work with items that are too far away to scan. A message comes up when you try to scan them, but the screen will never freeze until you get close enough to the item to scan it. This would be better than unscanned items in doing the long dashes since timing wouldn't matter. I have a feeling though, that it will be hard to find places where this is useful.

Please let me know what you think, and if anyone is having trouble understanding what I wrote here, let me know and I'll elaborate.

Regarding kip's wierd dash:

Here's what I have noticed in my screwing around trying to get across WSA: You can do the sideways dash only if you have the visor locked onto something (pressing or tapping L) at the time you tap B (This was obviously built into the game for use when fighting enemies). When you lock onto something that has already been scanned, the screen freezes immediatly and it screws up your momentum (thus, you fall sooner). The reason for this is that in order to continue your jump, you have to let go of L (and repress it again as fast as you can, as in the kip dash). When you let go of L, you immediatly begin rotating in the direction of the joystick because you are no longer locked onto anything, and thus, your dash is over.

However, when you lock onto something that has NOT already been scanned, you don't have to let up on L, meaning that your sideways dash momentum will last until you either finish scanning the item, or you hit something.

Kip got lucky (or he's just THAT good) in that the timing of his scan and jump were perfect and the momentum of the dash remained until he landed.

I did happen to notice that this will also work with items that are too far away to scan. A message comes up when you try to scan them, but the screen will never freeze until you get close enough to the item to scan it.  This would be better than unscanned items in doing the long dashes since timing wouldn't matter. I have a feeling though, that it will be hard to find places where this is useful.

Please let me know what you think, and if anyone is having trouble  understanding what I wrote here, let me know and I'll elaborate.

kip

2005-01-07 05:11:06 pm

Unless someone does it without any hits involved this is probably nothing. I looked at it in virtualdub and the locking on is only 6 frames before being shot... so I was dashing for .2 or less, depending on when it actually starts. The dash doesn't go crazy until after being shot, but since the shot comes .2 after locking on, it's hard to tell if that was the cause.

go floaty jump #2

kp

2005-01-07 05:20:17 pm

Are you sure that samus' momentum is affected by shots in mid dash? I know she is affected by shots when jumping normally. I think that because you were dashing, the pirates shot had no effect other than the life it took away.

Edit:
Now that I think about it... Maybe since you were dashing and not jumping, that the shot actually did help your momentum.