Speed Running

2004-10-11 11:26:21 pm

Quote from Brightstar:

you should seriously consider picking up either the wave or plasma beam so you can easily take care of the gamma that's in all of that webbing.

That's actually one of the things I was considering *skipping*. If I pick up the missile refill on the way back, that gives me around 120-130 missiles to work with, which is easily enough to waste around 20 (at worst) on that fight. I think it might be possible to stay at the bottom-left corner of the room, and coax the gamma into the vertical catch position. Missiles shot up, hardly any webbing in the way.

I dunno. It's up to the practice at this point.

carlmmii

2004-10-14 10:27:52 pm

Well, I'm part way there. It does work as I described above. Only took 15 max to get that gamma, and it was relatively quick. No need for plasma (plus, getting the plasma beam takes up 5 missiles).

I just got through 2 real attempts: one, I just completely forgot to get the refill on the way back, and the 2nd one I died on the 2nd zeta fight. Considering I had 25 health at that point, I think I did amazingly well against it. :D

Anyway, the main sticking point I have is this. I'd really like to stay at 120 missiles (skip the embedded missile tank, and replace the alpha-energy tank with the shaft-energy tank w/o missile). The only real sticking point is having enough energy coming out of the octo-float detour, since that's practically all acid dipping. If I'm lucky, I can spend maybe 10 missiles to get some health back, but usually it just ends up with wasted missiles.

But, barring that, is there any easy way to get by the room farthest down right before the missile blocks? It seems that I can never anticipate where those fliers are, and whenever I get hit even once, it results in about 30-50 health lost. :(

Edit: well, 3rd time at least got me through. Some lucky breaks, but overall kind of slow due to not picking up a hearty 130 missiles. It really makes a difference in that section, and with the omega metroid fights. Result: 1:03:35, upload in the morning.

Well, I'm part way there. It [i]does[/i] work as I described above. Only took 15 max to get that gamma, and it was relatively quick. No need for plasma (plus, getting the plasma beam takes up 5 missiles).

I just got through 2 real attempts: one, I just completely forgot to get the refill on the way back, and the 2nd one I died on the 2nd zeta fight. Considering I had 25 health at that point, I think I did amazingly well against it. :D

Anyway, the main sticking point I have is this. I'd really like to stay at 120 missiles (skip the embedded missile tank, and replace the alpha-energy tank with the shaft-energy tank w/o missile). The only real sticking point is having enough energy coming out of the octo-float detour, since that's practically all acid dipping. If I'm lucky, I can spend maybe 10 missiles to get some health back, but usually it just ends up with wasted missiles.

But, barring that, is there any [i]easy[/i] way to get by the room farthest down right before the missile blocks? It seems that I can never anticipate where those fliers are, and whenever I get hit even once, it results in about 30-50 health lost. :(

[b]Edit:[/b] well, 3rd time at least got me through. Some lucky breaks, but overall kind of slow due to not picking up a hearty 130 missiles. It really makes a difference in that section, and with the omega metroid fights. Result: 1:03:35, upload in the morning.

carlmmii

2004-10-15 05:52:58 am

Any %, single-segment, 1:03:35

Definitely not as good as it can be, but it's a starting point. Looking back on it, it's probably best to pick up the plasma beam so I don't have to waste missiles to get missiles. I know I can drop it down at least a minute, possibly more with some good luck on the omega fights.

Radix

2004-10-15 10:23:04 am

Cool... did you want this posted on SDA or wait for improvement?

carlmmii

2004-10-15 12:38:13 pm

Wait for an improvement. I'll have some time on leave to improve on it, with plenty of practice on the plane trip. :)

carlmmii

2004-10-21 09:19:06 pm

Well, I've got some news, and I doubt this is the kind that's expected.

I just got home on my PC and got to do some video comparisons of your run and mine through virtualdub (room-by-room, starting and ending on the "freeze" frame that starts the room transitions). I noticed that in almost all aspects, yours took slightly less frames than mine, notably in the straight passage we roll through. In this case, 184 frames as opposed to 190 frames. Both videos are at 29.97 fps, the only difference was the system being played on. Well, I decided to check out the audio, and it looks like I was right when I said the pitch seemed different in your videos. Have a listen:

your intro, Super Gameboy
my intro, Gameboy Player

I adjusted mine by a factor of 190/184 = 1.0326, and resulted in a near perfect match:

my intro, increased pitch

The only conclusion I can come to is that the super gameboy apparently speeds up the game ever so slightly compared to the gameboy player, resulting in mismatched times. :( I've got no idea how you wanna handle this, but if this is taken into account, then that's about a 2 minute difference in overall time.

Well, I've got some news, and I doubt this is the kind that's expected.

I just got home on my PC and got to do some video comparisons of your run and mine through virtualdub (room-by-room, starting and ending on the "freeze" frame that starts the room transitions). I noticed that in almost all aspects, yours took slightly less frames than mine, notably in the straight passage we roll through. In this case, [url=http://s93053262.onlinehome.us/misc/straight_n.avi]184 frames[/url] as opposed to [url=http://s93053262.onlinehome.us/misc/straight_c.avi]190 frames[/url]. Both videos are at 29.97 fps, the only difference was the system being played on. Well, I decided to check out the audio, and it looks like I was right when I said the pitch seemed different in your videos. Have a listen:

[url=http://s93053262.onlinehome.us/misc/n_clip.mp3]your intro, Super Gameboy[/url]
[url=http://s93053262.onlinehome.us/misc/c_clip.mp3]my intro, Gameboy Player[/url]

I adjusted mine by a factor of 190/184 = 1.0326, and resulted in a near perfect match:

[url=http://s93053262.onlinehome.us/misc/c_clip_adjusted.mp3]my intro, increased pitch[/url]

The only conclusion I can come to is that the super gameboy apparently speeds up the game ever so slightly compared to the gameboy player, resulting in mismatched times. :( I've got no idea how you wanna handle this, but if this is taken into account, then that's about a 2 minute difference in overall time.

Yoshi348

2004-10-21 09:20:41 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Yikes. Does SDA have any more GB runs?

Radix

2004-10-21 11:56:31 pm

My run is the only one that used super game boy... the only other GB game is mega man II and that was game boy player.

So the theory is that sgb is playing too fast? I guess I can record some tests with both sgb and gbp to see if I see a simliar difference. If so I guess my run has to be demoted to a slower time and carl has already beat me.

carlmmii

2004-10-23 07:40:49 pm

*adrenaline pumping*

Well, if I keep this up, the speed issue may not be a problem. I just managed to record a 1:02:30 run. Shocked

Won't be able to upload anything until next week, as I'm stuck on a 28k modem right now. But, that gives me some time to knock at least 3 seconds off the time. I know I can save at least 15 seconds on the zeta fights alone.

I don't think I've ever been so happy to see 00:59 in my life.

Dragondarch

2004-10-23 10:35:46 pm

Pullin' a sub 1 hour would be somethin' else man. If you can get M2 out of the way the only one left that hasn't broken it yet will be Prime Shocked

carlmmii

2004-10-23 11:59:45 pm

I'm actually thinking about doing an emulated run to see if that's even possible. Based on the tricks I used on this run, I'd have to say that the lowest I could maybe bring it down to is 1:01:xx, nothing more.

Edit: comparing radix' and this run side by side, I've gotta say that unless I can skip something big, it's stuck at 1:01:xx, which I can probably get with the extra 45 seconds radix gains on me on the last ruins. Shocked

Time to practice that area for real this time. :?

carlmmii

2004-10-24 05:45:15 pm

It's taunting me. Finished a save-state run, just to see what kind of game time it would yield, and to get some real practice in on the zeta/omegas (and discover a very quick strategy for all the omegas :D ).

Anyway, I snagged a 00:56 and 17-21 second run (managed to find the clock location in RAM). Given that, and the 00:59 game time I had with 1:02:30, the minimum 2:39 gain just barely puts it under an hour. So in theory, it's possible.

But, of course that requires near perfection, in a low-segment run (maybe a save before the zeta fights for not-so-good luck?). And, it required skipping the embedded missile and taking the energy tank in the long shaft as the 3rd instead of the one Radix gets. Plus, some clever bump jumping.

I guess I'll just have to actually run it to find out. :?

nate

2004-10-24 06:50:52 pm

go go go! good to see m2 get this kind of attention (attention it deserves imo)!

Dragondarch

2004-10-24 11:54:10 pm

Yes, yes, bring this one under an hour man! It's been too long in the making! Go go go!

carlmmii

2004-10-25 12:37:59 am

Well, since I won't be able to upload any complete runs until next week, I may as well put up some of the tricks I'll be using in them to fill the gap. So far, I've only really worked on ruins 3, as that seems to have the most potential. Ruins 4 is my next stop, hopefully with some sure-fire techniques this time.

Bump-jumping up the entrance shaft: I always hated this part, but I finally figured out how to use those bugs to my advantage. The hardest part about it is the 3rd bug, since I have to do a straight spin jump just to get hit at the right spot. Other than that, it's fairly consistent. Saves ~4 seconds off my 1:02:30 run.

DBJ off the cliff onto the far ledge: Kind of the same idea as the spring-ball bomb jump unmorph jump, except this is just used since I'm skipping that missile refuel until later. I was really hoping a single bomb would get the required distance, but it has to be done with the second bomb. Saves ~4 seconds.

Bomb-catch for recessed E-tank: Never really occurred to me until now to do this, since I've never skipped the missile until the any% runs. Dunno how much time it saves, but it looks cool nonetheless. :)

Bump-jump up the spike wall: Makes the space jump approach look silly. Embarassed

Saves ~6 seconds.

Well, since I won't be able to upload any complete runs until next week, I may as well put up some of the tricks I'll be using in them to fill the gap. So far, I've only really worked on ruins 3, as that seems to have the most potential. Ruins 4 is my next stop, hopefully with some sure-fire techniques this time.

[url=http://mmii.info/m2/ruins3_trick1.avi]Bump-jumping up the entrance shaft[/url]: I always hated this part, but I finally figured out how to use those bugs to my advantage. The hardest part about it is the 3rd bug, since I have to do a straight spin jump just to get hit at the right spot. Other than that, it's fairly consistent. Saves ~4 seconds off my 1:02:30 run.

[url=http://mmii.info/m2/ruins3_trick2.avi]DBJ off the cliff onto the far ledge[/url]: Kind of the same idea as the spring-ball bomb jump unmorph jump, except this is just used since I'm skipping that missile refuel until later. I was really hoping a single bomb would get the required distance, but it has to be done with the second bomb. Saves ~4 seconds.

[url=http://mmii.info/m2/ruins3_trick3.avi]Bomb-catch for recessed E-tank[/url]: Never really occurred to me until now to do this, since I've never skipped the missile until the any% runs. Dunno how much time it saves, but it looks cool nonetheless. :)

[url=http://mmii.info/m2/ruins3_trick4.avi]Bump-jump up the spike wall[/url]: Makes the space jump approach look silly. :oops: Saves ~6 seconds.

ajbolt89

2004-10-25 01:15:37 am

lol no way

Heh, I'm doing a low% run... in the area with zetas just now.

nate

2004-10-25 08:43:00 am

carlmmii, let me know if you want/need an m2k2 account (carlmmii or something else.metroid2002.com).

Brightstar

2004-10-25 02:03:59 pm

I guess you are going to have to add a new rule to the SDA rule list, saying that a player must show the bootup sequence of a gameboy game (hit record, wait 5-10 seconds before turning power on) to show what system is being used so you can calculate the final time or else the run can't be counted.

nate

2004-10-25 02:13:21 pm

radix would probably also test the capture's framerate against known framerates of the two standards, just to be sure.

Radix

2004-10-25 04:17:23 pm

Uh, what would be the point of that? It's extremely easy to tell which is being played on. GBP = blue walls and yellow samus. SGB = whatever the player input. It's impossible to duplicate the GBP color sceheme on SGB. Note: I still haven't done the test I said I would since I can't stop playing Paper Mario.

nate

2004-10-25 06:19:01 pm

rotfl. go pointless. guess i forgot the color schemes were exclusive.

carlmmii

2004-10-25 06:49:24 pm

Quote from njahnke:

carlmmii, let me know if you want/need an m2k2 account (carlmmii or something else.metroid2002.com).

That'd be awesome. :) Honestly, I don't know how much bandwidth my site can take at any given moment, and it'd be a shame to lose it even for a brief period.

What'd be your restriction for it?

Quote from Brightstar:

... (hit record, wait 5-10 seconds before turning power on)...

I think if that were required, I'd go insane just from how many times I've had to ditch a run because of a bad first segment. I swear, it's the hardest part of the entire game due to the luck required in pickups and little, tiny, pixel-randomness.

Red Scarlet

2004-10-25 07:50:41 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Just think how bad it is for segmented runs; I've always done that with all mine.

Dragondarch

2004-10-25 11:04:39 pm

Go Go single segment! :P

carlmmii

2004-10-31 01:35:22 pm

Well, I'm back up with my cable connection, still trying to complete this damn thing. If I don't succeed in a completed run (the hardest part right now is keeping my missile count up), I'll just upload the 1:02:30 run.