Souls Multithread

2016-02-03 01:16:34 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

The Bell Gargoyles are just real fuckers tbh, if they want to spent half the fight in the air and/or setting half the arena on fire that's what they're gonna do and you can't really do anything about it. Getting a weapon, pretty much any weapon really, upgraded to +5 is a big help since getting one dead asap is vital to not getting pissed off. Think you said you used all your Gold Pine Resin earlier but if you didn't it's also a big help as lightning fucks them up real good. Otherwise yeah, Just grab your boy Solaire and homie Lautrec and they'll tank the hell out of them for you while it's nice to solo bosses it is also important to be able to just get rid of them so you can do more fun things than getting set on fire a lot.

As for your Sorcery, Soul Arrow just isn't great for bosses but you could try out Magic Weapon if you can buy it, sounds like you found the sorcery merchant, if not you should have the key to unlock the door back at the bridge with the dragon and you should check that out. Magic Weapon will add magic damage to your weapon and since it's a spell you don't have to feel like you're wasting anything if you die.

The Souls Arrow series of spells requires more investment in Intelligence to be effective while utility spells like Magic Weapon will work fine for you at their minimum stat requirement. I like to get my Int to 15 at least on most characters to make use of some of those.

The Bell Gargoyles are just real fuckers tbh, if they want to spent half the fight in the air and/or setting half the arena on fire that's what they're gonna do and you can't really do anything about it. Getting a weapon, pretty much any weapon really, upgraded to +5 is a big help since getting one dead asap is vital to not getting pissed off. Think you said you used all your Gold Pine Resin earlier but if you didn't it's also a big help as lightning fucks them up real good. Otherwise yeah, Just grab your boy Solaire and homie Lautrec and they'll tank the hell out of them for you while it's nice to solo bosses it is also important to be able to just get rid of them so you can do more fun things than getting set on fire a lot.

As for your Sorcery, Soul Arrow just isn't great for bosses but you could try out Magic Weapon if you can buy it, sounds like you found the sorcery merchant, if not you should have the key to unlock the door back at the bridge with the dragon and you should check that out. Magic Weapon will add magic damage to your weapon and since it's a spell you don't have to feel like you're wasting anything if you die.

The Souls Arrow series of spells requires more investment in Intelligence to be effective while utility spells like Magic Weapon will work fine for you at their minimum stat requirement. I like to get my Int to 15 at least on most characters to make use of some of those.

tomatobob

2016-02-03 01:22:24 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from Opium:

Also, the only two places I've found to use the master key just opened doors that hid a huge one-hit-kill club wielder on the other side. :(

Parry him! Twisted Evil

Opium

2016-02-03 01:42:38 am

Got the drake sword. Sunk nearly 200 arrows into the dragon after cutting off his tail before realizing that it would take a lot more than 200.

I;m not sure which door you're talking about near the dragon.

Serris

2016-02-03 01:56:44 am

Be aware that the Drake Sword exists to help out newbies. It has high base damage for the early game, but doesn't scale with any of your stats, so it quickly gets outclassed by your normal weapons as you upgrade them and progress through the game. Don't bother wasting materials and souls on upgrading it.

tomatobob

2016-02-03 02:05:16 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from Opium:

I;m not sure which door you're talking about near the dragon.

Opposite end of the bridge from where the dragon sits, the way you first got there, there's a locked door that opens with the Basement Key iirc. You should have that if not check around the big gate that was behind the boar. Also make sure you have the Residence Key from that first merchant in Undead Burg.

You might as well check out the boss down there while you're at it. Could be a nice break from the Gargoyles.

Serris

2016-02-03 02:10:58 am

Yeah, the boss down there will help you appreciate how much fun you had with the Gargoyles.

ryu

Edit history:

ryu: 2016-02-03 02:13:58 am

2016-02-03 02:13:50 am

I beat the Gargoyles with a dagger easily. They're only difficult for newcomers to introduce the coop system.

Opium

2016-02-03 09:04:59 am

I have no issues until the second one shows up with fire, then it's pretty much over. I can play for a long time after the second one shows up by evading the fire, but the second I try to finish off the first one I'm done. I tried attacking him from different areas of the roof, but the second one always manages to position himself in just the right spot to kill me with fire every time I press R1 to hit the first one.

I do have the basement key, but I thought I checked that area very well. I located a door near there that opened via the master key, but that's the only one I can think of. Crap.

ryu

2016-02-03 09:08:42 am

If you come from right where you fought the minotaur and head to the bridge wtht he dragon, the door for the basement key is the one on the right DIRECTLY before the bridge itself.

Opium

2016-02-03 09:11:22 am

so it's before you get the basement key. I probably did find it the first time I went through there but it was locked.

ryu

2016-02-03 09:13:24 am

correct

Opium

Edit history:

Opium: 2016-02-03 08:02:30 pm

Opium: 2016-02-03 08:00:30 pm

2016-02-03 08:00:22 pm

Jesus I swear every time I look at the wiki to figure out how something works, a learn a ton of shit about how the game works that I never would have figured out without reading it. That's the thing that's the most challenging about this game. The combat itself isn't too difficult, or the exploration, it's simply knowing how the fuck shit works. And who would sit there and fuck with every possible thing you could fuck with just in case it mattered? I wouldn't. I'm only going to live another 20 years or so, that's not enough time.

Serris

2016-02-03 08:13:17 pm

If you just want to play through once, it doesn't matter. It's for people who like figuring these things out, while everyone else can read a wiki with their findings. These games are made to be replayed over and over, so having loads of deep mechanics helps keep things interesting. You can beat them with just what you learn in the tutorial, unaware of most of the stuff in there, but there's many ways to play. Souls games pretty much filled the void left behind by the lack of Metroid and Castlevania games.

Opium

Edit history:

Opium: 2016-02-03 08:29:46 pm

2016-02-03 08:28:12 pm

The thing I just learned has been very helpful in the part I'm on and probably will be in the future. I knew that 50% equip load was a critical number as far as my speed because I read it while playing DeS, but I just read that 25% makes you even faster. Some attacks were completely undodgeable without being able to move that fast. You have to remove all of your armor, and why the hell would I ever have gone into a fight wearing no armor?
You would either have to read about it, or find it out because of some total fluke.

Serris

2016-02-03 08:40:12 pm

Your stats screen tells you about equip load and what it does. Figuring out breakpoints and such is up to your own curiosity and willingness to experiment. If you're not into that, that's what the wiki is for. One of the most basic distinctions of builds is between a tanky shield turtling and a lightweight evasion-based style of play. You can play the whole game just holding up your shield and counter-attacking. There's even rapier and spear-type weapons that let you attack without lowering your shield. You don't have to get into dodge-rolling if you don't want to.

Da Dood

2016-02-03 08:40:56 pm

Dood Trigger™

At <25% you're as fast as you were in Demon's Souls, so DeS veterans probably figured that out on their own.

No attacks are undodgeable at above 25%. It's just harder. Mid-roll isn't uncommon in high level DkS play. And even above that weight, there isn't just the speedy way to be successful at this game.

Opium

2016-02-03 09:13:11 pm

The wiki says there are attacks where 'it is highly recommended if not required' that you be equipped under 25% in order to dodge. An attack that killed me over and over while I tried to dodge it is now hard NOT to dodge since I'm below 25%, and it was seemingly impossible without being sub 25%.

I like variation in the way I attack, but more importantly it seems advantageous to be versatile so I'm definitely doing both heavyweight and dodge-rolling/evading. Rolling is how I evaded all gargoyle attacks except fire. And the lightning demon, too. If you time it right you can roll through lots of stuff. Haven's club is way too fast for me to dodge in any way until I went below 25%.

I still say it's better when a game gives you basic instructions and then slowly introduces you to more information vs. not telling you anything and leaving it up to mindless years of experimentation or seeking guides or wikis to learn 'secrets' that shouldn't be.

Opium

2016-02-03 09:22:18 pm

There's got to be a bonfire closer to Haven, but I can't find it. I've unlocked two more doors in the area and went too far for it to matter in both of the new directions that opened up, but no dice. So the bonfire is so far away that it takes ten minutes just to get to him for each attempt. It's really hard to learn the timing for his parry when the attempts are so far apart and each failure is instant death. I'm on attempt # 15 I think.

Didn't someone mention that there were two bonfires near this area?

Da Dood

2016-02-03 09:24:10 pm

Dood Trigger™

Back when you played Bayonetta you were complaining about there being too many options in the combat and whatnot. These games are deep, but that doesn't mean you can't have a satisfying experience with the stuff you figure out on your own. You'll probably enjoy the game better if you just play it, instead of wondering if the game has fulfilled all the requirements to be a spotless perfectly designed thing.

It is never required to have <25% to dodge attacks. You have invincibility frames even when fat rolling. But obviously the quick roll is that much better so it makes a huge difference.

Serris

2016-02-03 09:24:34 pm

Be aware that DeS was a pretty niche/cult/hardcore game that not many people cared for. You're supposed to invest a lot of time into it and slowly discover new ways of dealing with obstacles, and you even need to do that before you realize how good of a game it actually is. It's exploration-based in both its world and its mechanics. The giant hoard of information and community that developed around it make that unnecessary, but that's still the intent. You can share secrets through in-game messages and share some multiplayer victories, but it's still a pretty solitary experience overall. I highly doubt the Souls series would be as popular as it is without the multiplayer aspect and the fact that it fascinated people used to modern day AAA gaming. The devs know exactly what they're doing, so you pretty much have to take it or leave it.

tomatobob

2016-02-03 09:26:18 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from Opium:

There's got to be a bonfire closer to Haven, but I can't find it. I've unlocked two more doors in the area and went too far for it to matter in both of the new directions that opened up, but no dice. So the bonfire is so far away that it takes ten minutes just to get to him for each attempt. It's really hard to learn the timing for his parry when the attempts are so far apart and each failure is instant death. I'm on attempt # 15 I think.

Didn't someone mention that there were two bonfires near this area?

There's a way to his tower through Darkroot and if you explore around there you can find on very close by. (Guarded by a Black Knight) There's also one behind a fake wall in the upper area of Darkroot near the big door.

Quote from Opium:

The wiki says there are attacks where 'it is highly recommended if not required' that you be equipped under 25% in order to dodge.

The wikis are written by sperglord ultradorks that think the only way to play the game is to wear nothing and twohand a Claymore and you should take all such recommendations with a grain of salt. My first time through the game I was over 25% equip load and dodged jack shit.

[quote="Opium"]There's got to be a bonfire closer to Haven, but I can't find it.  I've unlocked two more doors in the area and went too far for it to matter in both of the new directions that opened up, but no dice.  So the bonfire is so far away that it takes ten minutes just to get to him for each attempt.  It's really hard to learn the timing for his parry when the attempts are so far apart and each failure is instant death.  I'm on attempt # 15 I think.

Didn't someone mention that there were two bonfires near this area?[/quote]
There's a way to his tower through Darkroot and if you explore around there you can find on very close by. (Guarded by a Black Knight) There's also one behind a fake wall in the upper area of Darkroot near the big door.

[quote="Opium"]The wiki says there are attacks where 'it is highly recommended if not required' that you be equipped under 25% in order to dodge.[/quote]
The wikis are written by sperglord ultradorks that think the only way to play the game is to wear nothing and twohand a Claymore and you should take all such recommendations with a grain of salt. My first time through the game I was over 25% equip load and dodged jack shit.

Da Dood

2016-02-03 09:26:26 pm

Dood Trigger™

There is a bonfire with less enemies in the way at Darkroot Basin (the door at the bottom of that tower). But I'm pretty sure it's the same distance.

tomatobob

2016-02-03 09:28:23 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

You can also backstab that guy if parries aren't working out, since a missed parry is a death.

Serris

2016-02-03 09:35:27 pm

As a sperglord ultradork, I take offense. Claymores are, in fact, for casuals. If you don't reset for a Black Knight Halberd drop and are in Red Tearstone Ring range at all times, I have no idea why you're even playing this game.

Da Dood

2016-02-03 09:36:29 pm

Dood Trigger™

Duke skip or die!