social topic

2005-10-12 07:10:56 pm

very cool, thanks. i greatly appreciate this and any other input you might be able to provide. i promise i will eventually share the impetus for asking this with y'all, but i don't think that would be appropriate right now.

transience

2005-10-12 07:16:23 pm

twenty eight fifty

i have a degree in psychology and can tell you it's the best thing to learn and the worst thing to work for. if you go to school 100% to learn, go for it, but if you plan on using your degree to advance yourself professionally, you're better off reading books and saving your time/money.

DJGrenola

2005-10-12 07:20:07 pm

essentially i think the difference between my comparative enjoyment of working and academia was time management.

the university i went to pushed its students very hard (think UK ivy league). the work was backbreaking and all of it was hard, and i fell behind very quickly because i was placing too great an emphasis on trying to enjoy myself instead. of course this was a shoot-yourself-in-the-foot scenario, because the less time i spent working on academic stuff the more guilty and delinquent i felt, which led to even more goofing off in an attempt to make myself feel better. i missed a lot of taught material and in some ways have never forgiven myself for throwing out an opportunity to learn such a huge amount of genuinely interesting, well-taught wisdom.

the job was better, because my time was externally controlled. i had to work N hours a day or I would be fired, and I knew that once those N hours were over I didn't have to do anything until the N hours started again. the work was challenging, but i could do it, and unlike the adademic stuff I never felt out of my depth with it. there was also much better team spirit - university for me was a very lonely place where you're gunning for yourself and yourself only, and nobody else seems to care whether you're coping or not. at work, where everything was project-based, i was part of a team that was responsible for delivering something, and i much preferred having a manager that i could go to and say "hey, i'm struggling with this" or "how do you think i should go about this ?" It was a great comfort to be able to pass a problem up the chain of command and have it dealt with by the machine than have to muddle through all by myself.

mileage on all of this obviously varies according to factors like how hard you find whatever course you're doing, whether a company for whom you work has proper management structures in place, whether you enjoy your job or you're just doing it for the money, whether you have appropriate support outside whatever it is you're doing, whether you're expected to do overtime, etc. but the above is a fair representation of my personal experiences.

essentially i think the difference between my comparative enjoyment of working and academia was time management.

the university i went to pushed its students very hard (think UK ivy league). the work was backbreaking and all of it was hard, and i fell behind very quickly because i was placing too great an emphasis on trying to enjoy myself instead. of course this was a shoot-yourself-in-the-foot scenario, because the less time i spent working on academic stuff the more guilty and delinquent i felt, which led to even more goofing off in an attempt to make myself feel better. i missed a lot of taught material and in some ways have never forgiven myself for throwing out an opportunity to learn such a huge amount of genuinely interesting, well-taught wisdom.

the job was better, because my time was externally controlled. i had to work N hours a day or I would be fired, and I knew that once those N hours were over I didn't have to do anything until the N hours started again. the work was challenging, but i could do it, and unlike the adademic stuff I never felt out of my depth with it. there was also much better team spirit - university for me was a very lonely place where you're gunning for yourself and yourself only, and nobody else seems to care whether you're coping or not. at work, where everything was project-based, i was part of a team that was responsible for delivering something, and i much preferred having a manager that i could go to and say "hey, i'm struggling with this" or "how do you think i should go about this ?" It was a great comfort to be able to pass a problem up the chain of command and have it dealt with by the machine than have to muddle through all by myself.

mileage on all of this obviously varies according to factors like how hard you find whatever course you're doing, whether a company for whom you work has proper management structures in place, whether you enjoy your job or you're just doing it for the money, whether you have appropriate support outside whatever it is you're doing, whether you're expected to do overtime, etc. but the above is a fair representation of my personal experiences.

transience

2005-10-12 07:26:59 pm

twenty eight fifty

i like to be pushed. yeah, it can be stressful and annoying, but you get somewhere. it is much different than a job you do "just for the money", which can be even worse because you're just loathing yourself the entire time you're there. i have friends who have turned into absolute zombies from work, like they're not even the same person and the whole time they're home from work they're thinking about how they have to go back the next day. that, to me, is worse.

basically, it depends on the school, it depends on the job, and it depends on the people you work/school/learn with/from. all things neutral, i take the school.

SABERinBLUE

2005-10-12 07:30:42 pm

Cook of the Sea

A lot of the every-man-for-himself feel is largely school-specific, I would imagine. Baylor has a reputation for being an extremely nice school. Example: When I was at the university bookstore to get my books, I was utterly lost, so I found a polo shirt and asked him how to find out what books I needed. He walked me through what to do online, and then walked me around the store showing me which sections I'd likely need books from given my major and some fine points about the class numbers and labels, for about thirty minutes. As the "tour" was winding down, I asked him something specific about the store and he said "Huh? Oh, you saw the shirt. The shirt's for Phi Beta Kappa; I don't work at the bookstore. Have a nice day, and good luck!" And out he went.

Mr. Aran

2005-10-12 09:34:07 pm

everybody knows it's true

XIN is ftw!

Purple Lizard

2005-10-12 10:06:46 pm

I'm gonna have to agree with DJGrenola on this one. The university that I went to had a tough CS program, and I was constantly being pushed. The thing of it is that I actually enjoy programming, I still do. However, with the workload I was constantly bombarded with, I grew to loathe it, because there was rarely any time I had to myself. At the time, I also worked an internship. Basically, when I was at school, I was learning programming/theory, when I was at work, I was coding, and when I was at home, I was working on a project/studying. It was more or less a love/hate relationship. I still loved doing it, but at the same time, I was hating this thing that hardly allowed me for any time to enjoy myself.

I suppose with this field though, I'm lucky that the job I get is exactly what I want to do. I go into work, I work my 8 hours, doing what I enjoy doing, and then I go home. I have plenty of time to do the things I love, and I have the money to be able to be able to enjoy the things I love. It also helps that I can actually buy food now :) It's still work, and it's still learning because I try to keep up with new things in my field, but I don't feel burdened as much. I guess my mentality is that I'm still working, the only difference is that now I'm getting paid to work, instead of paying to work.

I'm gonna have to agree with DJGrenola on this one.  The university that I went to had a tough CS program, and I was constantly being pushed.  The thing of it is that I actually enjoy programming, I still do.  However, with the workload I was constantly bombarded with, I grew to loathe it, because there was rarely any time I had to myself.   At the time, I also worked an internship.  Basically, when I was at school, I was learning programming/theory, when I was at work, I was coding, and when I was at home, I was working on a project/studying.  It was more or less a love/hate relationship.  I still loved doing it, but at the same time, I was hating this thing that hardly allowed me for any time to enjoy myself.

I suppose with this field though, I'm lucky that the job I get is exactly what I want to do.   I go into work, I work my 8 hours, doing what I enjoy doing, and then I go home.  I have plenty of time to do the things I love, and I have the money to be able to be able to enjoy the things I love.  It also helps that I can actually buy food now :)  It's still work, and it's still learning because I try to keep up with new things in my field, but I don't feel burdened as much.   I guess my mentality is that I'm still working, the only difference is that now I'm getting paid to work, instead of paying to work.

arkarian

2005-10-15 10:45:29 pm

red chamber dream

Since I never got a chance to say this in his topic, Saber, heh, those "desktop toys" you linked to are awesome. I had never seen them before, and they gave me a half an hour of entertainment with lots more to come, I'm sure. :)

EDIT: Heh, I just had to respond to this topic. My birthday is in October, as well; it was yesterday, the fourteenth.

nate

2005-10-16 01:45:54 am

belated happy birthday. here's to many more years of diligence here.

Daniel, Lord Bahamut

2005-10-16 04:39:28 am

Mega Flare

On Nate's question of work vs. academics, it depends on your situation. I would've been more than happy to pursue an acting career after high school, but that didn't happen (a) because I was a po' mofo, and (b) I'm a parent, going on three kids now. So having a damn job RIGHT NOW is far more important, since them babies gotta eat and have diapers and whatnot. So instead of making a hundred million dollars doing movies and such, I'm a security guard at a Chevy dealership making $8 / hr.

And for the record, I'm now 23.

nate

2005-10-16 10:08:02 am

yeah, good thing i've managed to scare off all female interests. that was also a serious concern for a while. now i think i'm free to go down the academic path. thanks for the input.

Chanoire

2005-10-17 02:57:17 pm

See, for me it's the other way around. My fiancé is willing to help finance future college education for me. I won't be taking him up on it for several years (if ever), though, because I plan to stay at my current job until my car is paid off, as that's my responsibility and not his. Of course, by the time all that happens we may well have a kid...well, things get too hard to project after that. We'll see, I guess.

Incidentally, it seems like a lot of the grad students I work with did something in the outside world after getting their undergrad degree. Let's see...one was in the Peace Corps, one was a software engineer at JPL, one was an author, technology journalist, and editor, one did something involving computer chip manufacturing... I guess they all decided that they'd rather develop and pursue their research interests than continue in their current careers. I'm printing out letters of recommendation for two of those people as I type this (or am supposed to be) for fellowship applications. Go NRSA!

See, for me it's the other way around.  My fiancé is willing to help finance future college education for me.  I won't be taking him up on it for several years (if ever), though, because I plan to stay at my current job until my car is paid off, as that's my responsibility and not his.  Of course, by the time all that happens we may well have a kid...well, things get too hard to project after that.  We'll see, I guess.

Incidentally, it seems like a lot of the grad students I work with did something in the outside world after getting their undergrad degree.  Let's see...one was in the Peace Corps, one was a software engineer at JPL, one was an author, technology journalist, and editor, one did something involving computer chip manufacturing... I guess they all decided that they'd rather develop and pursue their research interests than continue in their current careers.  I'm printing out letters of recommendation for two of those people as I type this (or am supposed to be) for fellowship applications.  Go NRSA!

SABERinBLUE

2005-10-17 04:38:18 pm

Cook of the Sea

DZ, your dreams just got shattered.

Chanoire

2005-10-17 05:21:40 pm

We're not married yet, so I suppose there's still time to woo me with Spanish poetry...

arkarian

2005-10-17 05:27:25 pm

red chamber dream

I could sing you that song about Dulcinea from Don Quixote de La Mancha...

Chanoire

2005-10-17 05:33:10 pm

Hm. How good is your voice?

arkarian

2005-10-17 06:25:24 pm

red chamber dream

It's pretty good when I do one of those old-style croons, like you'd hear in the forties.

Purple Lizard

2005-10-17 06:25:44 pm

As smooth as Grade A buttah, one would expect...

DJGrenola

2005-10-17 09:20:23 pm

whatever happened to good old american capitalism ?

you bunch of damned commies.

Ekarderif

2005-10-17 10:35:26 pm

That died in the when Roosevelt (no, the other one) started the un-rounded symmetric arrangement, and when Roosevelt (no, the other other one) inacted the fresh arrangement.

RT-55J

2005-10-17 10:50:22 pm

Armor Guardian

Which Roosevelt?

Yoshi348

2005-10-17 11:40:58 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Quote from Ekarderif:

That died in the when Roosevelt (no, the other one) started the un-rounded symmetric arrangement, and when Roosevelt (no, the other other one) inacted the fresh arrangement.

*brain explodes*

RT-55J

2005-10-18 06:10:15 pm

Armor Guardian

This proves that "geek" is a derivative of "Greek".

nate

2005-10-18 06:36:54 pm

what's most surprising to me is how people are surprised by stuff like that. i take people at their word when they say the human brain has not evolved in a significant manner for at least the past few thousand years.

spineshark

2005-10-18 07:21:12 pm

in the name of justice!

Haha, I'd like to take this time to make mention of a post I made a while back-and comment in a similar vein.

Quote from a young, naive and innocent (?) version of myself:

when people understand you, i don't know what else you can get out of language.

Yoshi responded with something I might never forget:

Quote from Yoshi348:

*shields Spine Shark from nate*

Back then I would have seen this and thought, "who the heck cares?" It's been so long that I've read a really good book where the language is, on its own, an "end" to the enjoyment of the work, and not having the author just say "and they went down to the beach where they saw a message in a bottle" or something equally lame.

I've been reading Godel, Escher, Bach, and while I may not particularly understand all of the intended ideas, this is a DAMN GOOD BOOK. I haven't had this much fun reading in a long time because of the clever use of words like the structurally palindromic dialogue "Crab Canon." Words flickerbatting rule and now I'm all sad that I'm putting so much energy and effort into science classes now.

And hoo-freakin-ray for the page breaks!

Haha, I'd like to take this time to make mention of a post I made a while back-and comment in a similar vein.
[quote="a young, naive and innocent (?) version of myself"]when people understand you, i don't know what else you can get out of language.[/quote]
Yoshi responded with something I might never forget:
[quote="Yoshi348"]*shields Spine Shark from nate*[/quote]

Back then I would have seen this and thought, "who the heck cares?"  It's been so long that I've read a really good book where the language is, on its own, an "end" to the enjoyment of the work, and not having the author just say "and they went down to the beach where they saw a message in a bottle" or something equally lame.

I've been reading [u]Godel, Escher, Bach[/u], and while I may not particularly understand all of the intended ideas, this is a DAMN GOOD BOOK.  I haven't had this much fun reading in a long time because of the clever use of words like the structurally palindromic dialogue "Crab Canon."  Words flickerbatting rule and now I'm all sad that I'm putting so much energy and effort into science classes now.

And hoo-freakin-ray for the page breaks!