SNES ROM programming stuff

(user is banned)

2005-10-02 06:04:47 pm

what i mean is that when VB or Delphi renders a transparent image it needs API calls to be able to make the IMAGE re-usable and transparent otherwise when its used again you will see the background of whatever it was ontop of instead of Transparent Pixels...

Quote:

Most information for programming on the SNES dealt with assembly,

i doubt people will use ASM for coding games... maybe for learning the hardware functions and limits but hardly ever will people make games in ASM most will use a compiler with C/C++. (also while im on the subject the snes a library and a function to render gfx (a call to set the GFX mode (i.e 1/2/3/4/5/6/7) and set a tile to an X and Y position). )

as for that comment about what am i talking about i think you could use your common sense to tell im not talking about a game for the snes when i refer to VB and Delphi.

as for the X's if they WERE in the game id say its because the program is putting them in there rather then replacing the X's with transparent pixels again. otherwise theres no reason for them to be there in a non-hacked ROM

for the Question about the Decompiler... most people use it to rip music or something from a Comercial Game. not Homebrew.

and i dont code for the snes i did some coding for the GBA (which is quite similar in terms of the way it handles graffix and music etc.) now im doing coding for the NDS.

theres a few things on the SNES Development Here:

http://www.drunkencoders.com/index.php?system_id=3&page=Tutorials

i think you would find it quite easy to dev for console systems in C/C++, not many people use ASM(generally you may see some C/C++ with some ASM stuff) but you wont find pure ASM stuff.

what i mean is that when VB or Delphi renders a transparent image it needs API calls to be able to make the IMAGE re-usable and transparent otherwise when its used again you will see the background of whatever it was ontop of instead of Transparent Pixels...

[quote]Most information for programming on the SNES dealt with assembly,[/quote]

i doubt people will use ASM for coding games... maybe for learning the hardware functions and limits but hardly ever will people make games in ASM most will use a compiler with C/C++. (also while im on the subject the snes a library and a function to render gfx (a call to set the GFX mode (i.e 1/2/3/4/5/6/7) and set a tile to an X and Y position). )

as for that comment about what am i talking about i think you could use your common sense to tell im not talking about a game for the snes when i refer to VB and Delphi.

as for the X's if they WERE in the game id say its because the program is putting them in there rather then replacing the X's with transparent pixels again. otherwise theres no reason for them to be there in a non-hacked ROM

for the Question about the Decompiler... most people use it to rip music or something from a Comercial Game. not Homebrew.

and i dont code for the snes i did some coding for the GBA (which is quite similar in terms of the way it handles graffix and music etc.) now im doing coding for the NDS.

theres a few things on the SNES Development Here:

[url]http://www.drunkencoders.com/index.php?system_id=3&page=Tutorials[/url]

i think you would find it quite easy to dev for console systems in C/C++, not many people use ASM(generally you may see some C/C++ with some ASM stuff) but you wont find pure ASM stuff.

Kejardon

2005-10-02 09:50:20 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Quote from sylux:

i doubt people will use ASM for coding games...

as for that comment about what am i talking about i think you could use your common sense to tell im not talking about a game for the snes when i refer to VB and Delphi.

>_>

You make it sound like it's more likely to find someone using one of those languages than it is to find someone using assembly for a large SNES game. If you want people to rely on common sense, then make sure what you're saying is common as well.
Personally, I tend to take everything literally, unless it's an idiom or something that's very commonly used and understood.

on decompiling... The music is difficult to rip directly from the game. It's easier to run the game and save the sound chip data when the game is playing the song. A decompiler would probably make understanding the music routines much easier, though. Graphics would be harder to do from in-game... I can see a decompiler being useful for that, but other programs would probably work better.
Although, that wasn't the question I was asking. Lemme phrase it plainly: Is it harder to decompile a game that's been programmed largely in assembly?

And that link had a small bit in c / c++ and a large bit in assembly. I still say you're in the minority if you code in a higher language. :P

[quote="sylux"]i doubt people will use ASM for coding games...

as for that comment about what am i talking about i think you could use your common sense to tell im not talking about a game for the snes when i refer to VB and Delphi.[/quote]

>_>

You make it sound like it's more likely to find someone using one of those languages than it is to find someone using assembly for a large SNES game. If you want people to rely on common sense, then make sure what you're saying is common as well.
Personally, I tend to take everything literally, unless it's an idiom or something that's very commonly used and understood.

on decompiling... The music is difficult to rip directly from the game. It's easier to run the game and save the sound chip data when the game is playing the song. A decompiler would probably make understanding the music routines much easier, though. Graphics would be harder to do from in-game... I can see a decompiler being useful for that, but other programs would probably work better.
Although, that wasn't the question I was asking. Lemme phrase it plainly: Is it harder to decompile a game that's been programmed largely in assembly?

And that link had a small bit in c / c++ and a large bit in assembly. I still say you're in the minority if you code in a higher language. :P

sylux

(user is banned)

2005-10-03 02:19:53 am

the fact its coden in ASM makes no difference... all the compiler dose is compile the EXE and all files and data folders into a .smc file. for an example of what i mean find the Metroid Prime demo ROM and get a program called "ndstool" by DarkFader.

and it is easier to program a game in C++ then ASM. not many homebrewers even use ASM input. letalone a game done in pure ASM.
maybe an Official Developer from nintendo or a thirdparty publisher would use ASM, but now a homebrewer.

C/C++ is a language more commonly used for game development...

as for your comment on common sense... i write these large posts in phases. i read what you say and reply to it and then the next sentance and so on. i dont sit down and go over it with a fine tooth combe to make sure it all makes sense... so you have to bare with me and use your common sense is what i meant.

i wouldnt call ASM a "Higher" language... C/C++ is just as capable as ASM is to do anything. and as i said before its more commonly used then something like ASM also Direct X and OpenGL are much easier to use in C++ then ASM which makes Game Development much easier(and quicker).

the fact its coden in ASM makes no difference... all the compiler dose is compile the EXE and all files and data folders into a .smc file. for an example of what i mean find the Metroid Prime demo ROM and get a program called "ndstool" by DarkFader.

and it is easier to program a game in C++ then ASM. not many homebrewers even use ASM input. letalone a game done in pure ASM.
maybe an Official Developer from nintendo or a thirdparty publisher would use ASM, but now a homebrewer.

C/C++ is a language more commonly used for game development...

as for your comment on common sense... i write these large posts in phases. i read what you say and reply to it and then the next sentance and so on. i dont sit down and go over it with a fine tooth combe to make sure it all makes sense... so you have to bare with me and use your common sense is what i meant.

i wouldnt call ASM a "Higher" language... C/C++ is just as capable as ASM is to do anything. and as i said before its more commonly used then something like ASM also Direct X and OpenGL are much easier to use in C++ then ASM which makes Game Development much easier(and quicker).

Kejardon

2005-10-03 10:54:36 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

I was asking about a decompiler, not a compiler. >_> Though I guess I can assume that the decompiler just goes in reverse...
Wait, what language is it decompiled to? You make it sound like it's still an executable file when you decompile it. o_O

I know C++ is much more commonly used than assembly in mainstream things, but I'm pretty sure SNES programming isn't mainstream.

I never said assembly was a higher level language, it's a very low level language. C++ is the higher level language.

You seem to often misread what I write. >_> Could you please reread both posts after you've written yours? If you understand and reply to the other person how they're expecting you to, you tend to save more time than having to go back and forth like we are.

sylux

(user is banned)

2005-10-04 12:57:34 am

actually u seem to mistype it.

when u compile a .smc it will have data files folders and EXEcutables (basically its a .EXE for the snes it will be a different extention and it wont look like a windows application would. for an example look into the xbox's .XBE files.) when u decompile it its basically the same as how u extract files from a .iso (CD-Image) u will get a heap of files.

a compiler doesnt just compile the codes into a .smc it compiles all the data for the project. again: doing pretty much what NERO dose when it creates an ISO(the compiler also compiles the C/C++(or ASM or whatever language u code with(also depending on the compiler)) codes into an Executable Nativly readable by (insert console here).

Quote:

I still say you're in the minority if you code in a higher language.

mate... i dont think that can mean much more then ASM is a "higher language" (false btw).

Raccoon Sam

2005-10-04 08:52:19 am

Okay okay...

Let's stop the arguing, and go with the topic.
Saturn, you should post more gameplay movies-

PAL-Player

2005-10-04 10:22:54 am

I agree with sam!!

Kejardon

2005-10-04 11:04:18 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

We're almost done, I think. There's not much left for us to argue about. :P

Quote:

And that link had a small bit in c / c++ and a large bit in assembly. I still say you're in the minority if you code in a higher language.

To reiterate:
Most information in the link *you* gave me was geared toward coding in assembly. Ergo, I think that coding in c++ for the Super Nintendo is less common than coding in assembly.
I did jump a bit in my line of thought from the first sentence to the second sentence, but it's still far more understandable than much of what you've said. >_>

Quote:

actually u seem to mistype it.

Hah... I'd criticize your typing habits if it weren't for the fact that you do spell correctly for the most part, and I don't personally mind small stuff like 'u' and lack of capitalization. But how did I mistype this:
'Lemme phrase it plainly: Is it harder to decompile a game that's been programmed largely in assembly?'
At this point you started talking about a *compiler*, and I decided to just assume that a decompiler did the same exact thing, but in reverse.
Yet, I'm still not sure if a decompiler is supposed to output code or another executable.

We're almost done, I think. There's not much left for us to argue about. :P

[quote]And that link had a small bit in c / c++ and a large bit in assembly. I still say you're in the minority if you code in a higher language.[/quote]

To reiterate:
Most information in the link *you* gave me was geared toward coding in assembly. Ergo, I think that coding in c++ for the Super Nintendo is less common than coding in assembly.
I did jump a bit in my line of thought from the first sentence to the second sentence, but it's still far more understandable than much of what you've said. >_>

[quote]actually u seem to mistype it.[/quote]
Hah... I'd criticize your typing habits if it weren't for the fact that you do spell correctly for the most part, and I don't personally mind small stuff like 'u' and lack of capitalization. But how did I mistype this:
'Lemme phrase it plainly: Is it harder to decompile a game that's been programmed largely in assembly?'
At this point you started talking about a *compiler*, and I decided to just assume that a decompiler did the same exact thing, but in reverse.
Yet, I'm still not sure if a decompiler is supposed to output code or another executable.

Yoshi348

2005-10-04 01:12:54 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

The forum administration minds very very much that you actually take the time to type out the word "you", however.

sylux

(user is banned)

2005-10-05 08:49:05 am

Capitilization:

A "Compiler" dose two things(This is what devkitARM (for Nintendo DS) dose.):

Compiles an EXEcutable native to the NDS, Stores all Data, Pictures, Music etc. Into a .NDS or .NDS.GBA (Much like an ISO CD-Image). Then is Flashed into a Cartridge or (More Commonly) run in an Emulator

if you were to "Decompile" the .SMC file you would be left with a Directory like this:

default(.exe or whatever the extention for snes is)(the default executable that the snes will boot up on gamestart(if this file isnt found it will most likly just goto a blank screen or give some kind of file not found error.))
audio\(all Audio Data is stored in this directory)
art\(all images stored in this directory)

u will probably find outa misc items aswell.

Anything else u want me to Re-Write for it to make sense to you? i realy dont wanna sound like an asshole but you realy are thick man. your the only person i have had to re-write huge posts for it to make sense to you.

Purple Lizard

2005-10-05 09:24:52 am

Quote from sylux:

Anything else u want me to Re-Write for it to make sense to you? i realy dont wanna sound like an asshole but you realy are thick man. your the only person i have had to re-write huge posts for it to make sense to you.

Resorting to name-calling and flaming to try to reinforce your point now? Real mature :? One would think I had wandered into gamefaqs forum instead of M2K2...

Kejardon

2005-10-05 10:37:21 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

No, I'm just really surprised that you don't get any code when you decompile a game. I thought that was the point of decompiling it.

Yoshi348

2005-10-05 11:47:37 am

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Stylux, don't flame, and spell out "u" for God's sake. It's not that hard. We're not too picky about spelling and capitalization otherwise as long as your posts are perfectly readable, which yours are.

Seriously, don't flame though.

Sasuke_Kun

(user is banned)

2005-10-05 02:45:06 pm

Flaming is the best and easiest way to make everyone on a forum hate your guts. So don't do it.

Secondly, Yoshi, it's Sylux, not Stylux.

And back to the topic in hand. Saturn, you any closer to getting it done? I don't wanna sound like a nag or anything, but I wanna see how it's all going so far.

RT-55J

2005-10-05 07:12:43 pm

Armor Guardian

I find Sylux' lack of knowledge disturbing.

Kejardon

2005-10-05 09:30:46 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Nah, sylux is obviously intelligent, the real problem is that he and I view roms in significantly different ways. Both work, and both have uses and flaws. Neither one is better over-all.

My only complaint is that he didn't read my posts very well. >_>

::edit::
I'm not sure if it's best to say all this or not... but beyond this is all purely my opinion. Feel free to ignore it or whatever.

Sylux never really flamed me. He *was* rewriting a lot of the same things over and over, and if I were asking the same questions over and over, I'd say he was entirely justified in calling me thick headed. It wouldn't have been tactful, but it would've been honest.
Ergo, 'My only complaint is that he didn't read my posts very well'... if I were to fault him, it would be for being careless or assuming, or for whatever reason he misread my posts, but *not* for flaming.

Then again, I greatly prefer blunt, accurate truths over tiptoeing around people's feet. Which is largely why I decided to edit and write all this in the first place.

Nah, sylux is obviously intelligent, the real problem is that he and I view roms in significantly different ways. Both work, and both have uses and flaws. Neither one is better over-all.

My only complaint is that he didn't read my posts very well. >_>

::edit::
I'm not sure if it's best to say all this or not... but beyond this is all purely my opinion. Feel free to ignore it or whatever.

Sylux never really flamed me. He *was* rewriting a lot of the same things over and over, and if I were asking the same questions over and over, I'd say he was entirely justified in calling me thick headed. It wouldn't have been tactful, but it would've been honest.
Ergo, 'My only complaint is that he didn't read my posts very well'... if I were to fault him, it would be for being careless or assuming, or for whatever reason he misread my posts, but *not* for flaming.

Then again, I greatly prefer blunt, accurate truths over tiptoeing around people's feet. Which is largely why I decided to edit and write all this in the first place.

Red Scarlet

2005-10-06 01:03:37 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Could anyone split all the programming mumbo-jumbo to a different topic? I don't even read this thread anymore since it's about something else now instead of the hack. :?

Kejardon

2005-10-06 01:20:50 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

We're done with the mumbo-jumbo, so you can continue reading this thread now. :P
Sorry about sidetracking it for so long, though.

sylux

(user is banned)

2005-10-06 01:33:22 pm

for all if you guys on ur rags about me "flaming"...

i dont mean to sound like an asshole, it just comes that way maybe if you guys were programmers and constantly barraged in random and useless messages all day having to re-type things over and over for them to make sense is VERY irritating. so dont tell me off for calling people who need "extra attention" idiots(more or less).

Purple Lizard

2005-10-06 04:14:57 pm

Quote from sylux:

for all if you guys on ur rags about me "flaming"...

i dont mean to sound like an asshole, it just comes that way maybe if you guys were programmers and constantly barraged in random and useless messages all day having to re-type things over and over for them to make sense is VERY irritating. so dont tell me off for calling people who need "extra attention" idiots(more or less).

Only I am a programmer that was hired with a whole bunch of people who didn't really know their jobs. If you think what you were going through is irritating, imagine being constantly barraged by questions and having to tutor those that probably make MORE money than you or clean up after their messes. It happens in the real world, and guess what? It sucks. But you deal with it and move on, because getting angry or calling them idiots or thick or, as you put it, "sounding like an asshole" ultimately won't do anything but cause yourself unnecessary aggravation. Besides, that energy is better spent figuring out just what it is the other person is misunderstanding, and how you can make your own point come across more clearly. It's pretty obvious you are knowledgeable, but that doesn't justify calling others that don't get what you are trying to get across or don't learn things at the same pace as you, or as you put it 'requiring extra attention' idiots.

Anyways, back to talking about the hack and stuff. What's the progress on it so far?

[quote="sylux"]for all if you guys on ur rags about me "flaming"...

i dont mean to sound like an asshole, it just comes that way maybe if you guys were programmers and constantly barraged in random and useless messages all day having to re-type things over and over for them to make sense is VERY irritating. so dont tell me off for calling people who need "extra attention" idiots(more or less).[/quote]

Only I am a programmer that was hired with a whole bunch of people who didn't really know their jobs.  If you think what you were  going through is irritating, imagine being constantly barraged by questions and having to tutor those that probably make MORE money than you or clean up after their messes.  It happens in the real world, and guess what?  It sucks.  But you deal with it and move on, because getting angry or calling them idiots or thick or, as you put it, "sounding like an asshole" ultimately won't do anything but cause yourself unnecessary aggravation.  Besides, that energy is better spent figuring out just what it is the other person is misunderstanding, and how you can make your own point come across more clearly.  It's pretty obvious you are knowledgeable, but that doesn't justify calling others that don't get what you are trying to get across or don't learn things at the same pace as you, or as you put it 'requiring extra attention' idiots.

Anyways, back to talking about the hack and stuff.  What's the progress on it so far?

Saturn

2005-10-06 09:52:53 pm

Quote from Saturn:

Not much. I checked some rooms again but the progress is not bigger than 5% to the last version/backup for now.

It will be hard to continue the work in this month since I have very serious exams and have to learn for them therefore no time for hacking currently.

sylux

(user is banned)

2005-10-07 03:22:23 am

purple lizzard im not even goin to bother reading what you said as its a bunch of bullshit. i "choose" to come here in my free time. which i dont have allot of, and having it wasted by reading useless posts much like yours is more irritating then having to re-type everything over and over.

Kejardon

2005-10-07 10:34:13 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

mmk, I'm going to have to take back what I said about sylux not flaming. >_>

sylux

(user is banned)

2005-10-07 10:44:55 am

its true man, he may be a programmer, he may get annoyed every day but what he said meant absolutly nothing because hes not the one re-typing stuff. nor is he answering questions.

Kejardon

2005-10-07 12:06:19 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

sylux, you *really* need to try reading what other people are saying.

Quote:

imagine being constantly barraged by questions and having to tutor...

And ironically, you're making us retype things. >_>