Super Metroid/SMILE Help Thread

2009-06-17 10:42:46 am

Quote from Steyiak:

Now my only problem is this

Quote from Steyiak:

In the spazer beam room I changed the spazer to the Varia Suit but it doesn't appear when I run the ROM (I didn't change anything else in the room) but it DOES apear if I use the Test Room option in SMILE

All I can suggest is change the index of the item, as you may have made another item have the same index and picked it up, which will make the Varia disappear in game and vice versa.

Quietus

2009-06-17 11:06:14 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I would suggest (to add to the above) changing three of the scroll PLM's in the landing site to Morph, Missiles, and Supers, so that you can head straight to the Spazer with no pickups. If it doesn't disappear, then you can be fairly certain it has the same index as an item you would normally have collected by then, which should narrow it down.

Steyiak

Edit history:

Steyiak: 2009-06-17 11:58:26 am

2009-06-17 11:44:48 am

How can I change the index?
You mean the high and low in the PLM options?
And how do I know where to change it? Do I have to check the index of all the items to make it different or is there an easier way?

Edit: I think I found out that index is the Low but still tell me to ensure it plz

MoogleEmperor

2009-06-17 12:28:12 pm

Yes, it's the Low. The index for doorcaps works the same way btw. Make sure the High is 00 for items, or else it might cause problems.
You'll need to keep track of the indexes on your own unfortunately. I personally use them in sequential order and keep track of the highest index I've used, but writing them all down would be better. don't use index 00 though, in my experience items with that index will always respawn.
You can also take advantage of this behavior if you want the player to have to choose between items, or have opening one doorcap also open another somewhere else.

Steyiak

2009-06-17 01:06:08 pm

Thanks guys Very Happy

I changed Low to another number and Varia appears now Very Happy

but I might have deleted another item Crying or Very sad

To Jathys:
If you know how to can you make the next version of SMILE tell you if the index of a PLM/Doorcap
already exists plz?

Example:
If the index already exists a message pops up saying:

This index already exists in room 12345. If you keep this index another Item/Doorcap won't appear in the game.
Are you sure you want to keep this index?

Or something like that Wink

TAxxOUTBR3AKxx

2009-06-17 02:20:42 pm

You're best bet is to go in sequential order how SMILE has it's room listed. Start with the first room, number up your PLM's for items, then go to the next room, and continue where u left off, until u hit the last room.....Seems like this would be the easiest way to me.

Deep_Space_Observer

2009-06-17 03:41:10 pm

I just keep a .txt file documenting each item I place when I place it, and refer to it every time I place a new item. It looks something like:

00/00 Missile
00/01 Missile
00/02 Etank

And so on and so on... also do the same thing for doors. It makes keeping track fairly easy.

Also, I'm fairly certain without a major reworking of SMILE's engine, it's impossible for SMILE to know what data is in other rooms than the one you have loaded at the time.

Jathys

2009-06-17 04:57:24 pm

Quote from Steyiak:

To Jathys:
If you know how to can you make the next version of SMILE tell you if the index of a PLM/Doorcap
already exists plz?

Could I? Yes. Will I? No.

Let's say you have a fresh ROM that has never been edited. You open smile to the first room you want to edit and change your first item index . . . Bad news for you. The item index you just set is already in use by the original game. How's smile supposed to know if the other one is an item you plan on keeping?

The best solution really is to simply keep track of your own indexes. Sorry.

Steyiak

2009-06-17 05:26:30 pm

You are right...
I never thought of that.
In that case maybe it's better the way it is.

Xaggoth

2009-06-18 12:12:51 am

Quote from Jathys:

The best solution really is to simply keep track of your own indexes. Sorry.

But it would be pretty awesome if SMILE could tell you the highest low value that has been used so far.

Steyiak

2009-06-18 01:48:29 am

I have another question...
In room 7AC00 I made it have lava instead of water but the lava appeared kinda glitched (just another color). Then in the FX1 options I saw "pallete blend". I changed that to 02 (from 48) so the lava will get normal. I tested it and it worked! The lava and the room didn't have anything glitched.

Now my question: Will this change have any negative effects to this room or another room (like glitched graphics or anything else)?

Sadiztik Fish

2009-06-18 01:52:49 am

OMG FLAN!!!!!!!

Quote from Xaggoth:

Quote from Jathys:

The best solution really is to simply keep track of your own indexes. Sorry.

But it would be pretty awesome if SMILE could tell you the highest low value that has been used so far.

But that would come up with the same problem wouldn't it. SMILE would just tell you the highest value overall, not what you've changed.

Quote from Steyiak:

I have another question...
In room 7AC00 I made it have lava instead of water but the lava appeared kinda glitched (just another color). Then in the FX1 options I saw "pallete blend". I changed that to 02 (from 48) so the lava will get normal. I tested it and it worked! The lava and the room didn't have anything glitched.

Now my question: Will this change have any negative effects to this room or another room (like glitched graphics or anything else)?

No. Those palette blends only determine the colors used by the FX. They don't overwrite anything except the FX1 pointer data, in which case, every room that uses that FX1 pointer will have that same palette blend. But it can't possibly have any errors because of it.

[quote="Xaggoth"]
[quote="Jathys"]
The best solution really is to simply keep track of your own indexes.  Sorry.
[/quote]

But it would be pretty awesome if SMILE could tell you the highest low value that has been used so far.
[/quote]

But that would come up with the same problem wouldn't it. SMILE would just  tell you the highest value overall, not what you've changed.
[quote="Steyiak"]
I have another question...
In room 7AC00 I made it have lava instead of water but the lava appeared kinda glitched (just another color). Then in the FX1 options I saw "pallete blend". I changed that to 02 (from 48) so the lava will get normal. I tested it and it worked! The lava and the room didn't have anything glitched.

Now my question: Will this change have any negative effects to this room or another room (like glitched graphics or anything else)? 
[/quote]

No. Those palette blends only determine the colors used by the FX. They don't overwrite anything except the FX1 pointer data, in which case, every room that uses that FX1 pointer will have that same palette blend. But it can't possibly have any errors because of it.

Quietus

2009-06-18 05:18:00 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Quote from Sadiztik Fish:

But that would come up with the same problem wouldn't it. SMILE would just tell you the highest value overall, not what you've changed.

I suppose the idea would be that it could tell you that it conflicts with an PLM already placed in room XXXXX, so that you can just choose another index.

Jathys

Edit history:

Jathys: 2009-06-18 03:29:36 pm

2009-06-18 03:23:46 pm

Quote from Quietus:

I suppose the idea would be that it could tell you that it conflicts with an PLM already placed in room XXXXX, so that you can just choose another index.

What we're saying though is that over 150 of the indexes are already used by the original game. The only way to avoid having EVERY item a person places from having a conflict in another room would be (among other things) to start their item indexes around $A0 or so . . . But why? You can have 700 items with the exact same index without any conflict at all. How? By not having any of those 700 items accessed. Organization is key. SMILE has no way of:
1) Knowing what's original or not.
2) Knowing what items are accessible (due to doors and level data) or not.
3) Knowing what PLM's are actually items or not.
4) Knowing if there are rooms that your mdb list doesn't point to.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, especially in the help thread, but let me say something 100% totally true and honest . . . If a person isn't capable of keeping track of what item indexes they've used, how can they be organized enough to avoid all the other common pitfalls of designing a hack (ie- slope errors, getting stuck without morph, requiring missiles to get out of a room without providing a way to replenish missies, etc...)?

If you don't know how to keep track of them, here's are a few ways:
1) Keep a list of what items have what indexes in what rooms (sound like overkill? I know of at least one person who does this already).
2) Simply start at 00. Every time you add an item, increase the value... Write this down somewhere, to keep track of the highest index you've used. Removed an item from your game? Just note the index value it had in red ink so you know it's available... Cross that out once you've used it.
3) Don't create any new items, but simply rearrange pre-existing items.
4) Simply write down whatever numbers you use, as you use them.

Using random values and not writing them down . . . As crazy as it sounds, it's what MANY people do.

[quote="Quietus"]I suppose the idea would be that it could tell you that it conflicts with an PLM already placed in room XXXXX, so that you can just choose another index.[/quote]
What we're saying though is that over 150 of the indexes are already used by the original game. The only way to avoid having EVERY item a person places from having a conflict in another room would be (among other things) to start their item indexes around $A0 or so . . . But why?  You can have 700 items with the exact same index without any conflict at all.  How?  By not having any of those 700 items accessed.  [I]Organization is key.[/I] SMILE has no way of:
1) Knowing what's original or not.
2) Knowing what items are accessible (due to doors and level data) or not.
3) Knowing what PLM's are actually items or not.
4) Knowing if there are rooms that your mdb list doesn't point to.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, especially in the help thread, but let me say something 100% totally true and honest . . . If a person isn't capable of keeping track of what item indexes they've used, how can they be organized enough to avoid all the other common pitfalls of designing a hack (ie- slope errors, getting stuck without morph, requiring missiles to get out of a room without providing a way to replenish missies, etc...)?

If you don't know how to keep track of them, here's are a few ways:
1) Keep a list of what items have what indexes in what rooms (sound like overkill?  I know of at least one person who does this already).
2) Simply start at 00.  Every time you add an item, increase the value... Write this down somewhere, to keep track of the highest index you've used.  Removed an item from your game?  Just note the index value it had in red ink so you know it's available... Cross that out once you've used it.
3) Don't create any new items, but simply rearrange pre-existing items.
4) Simply write down whatever numbers you use, as you use them.

[spoiler="A strange fact."]Using random values and not writing them down . . . As crazy as it sounds, it's what MANY people do.[/spoiler]

Sadiztik Fish

2009-06-18 07:46:08 pm

OMG FLAN!!!!!!!

I've got a list/table in MSword with every room number down the left side, and the right has a list of every PLM item in that room (not including random stuff like arrows, only doors and pickups), the indexes they use, and what it is.

EG.

79AA8 - Red Cap - 04
- Charge - 21
79B91 - Green Cap - 02
- Yellow Cap - 21

daltone

2009-06-19 09:38:53 pm

Burrrp!

I dont know if this is the right place but...
Is there any way to change the way the gravity suit gives you the varia suit as well.
The main idea would be to travel through water before heat, if anyone knows where the general place to look into for info on any thing it would be great, thanks in advance

Deep_Space_Observer

2009-06-19 09:47:21 pm

For removing gravity's heat protection, go to this location in a hex editor and change the bytes starting there to what I post.

6E37C

Type 89 01 00 D0 2A 29 20 00 F0 03 A9 FF BF 18 69 00 40 8D 4E 0A EA EA EA EA

I think that'll do what you want.

daltone

Edit history:

daltone: 2009-06-19 10:18:14 pm

2009-06-19 09:49:16 pm

Burrrp!

Holy poop thanks alot, ill try it out and see what i come up with.

Edit: Its works excellently, only that i would like to make the varia suit pallet go on over top of the gravity, if you know that would be even better! thanks in advance

SonicSpieler

2009-06-20 02:40:34 am

Hey,

can any1 tell more, how i can LINK Rooms in Smile?
I already read the FAQ About Smile... but this dont really helps :/
any idea?

exsample:

How can i move rooms that the are working fine?
everytime if i do, i entry door and its allright but if i went back, Samus entry room by the old door, i moved :/
Help xD!

Draconis Kenjishiya

2009-06-20 12:14:41 pm

All things considered, I shouldn't be awake. x.x

On the topic of indexes (yes, I started at 00 and have been writing down what each one is every time I use one), understandably two items with a High value of 00 can't have the same Low value. But, are doors and items on the same table or whatever? As far as I can tell, they're not, but I want to clarify. Like, let's say I have a Missile tank with Index 01. If I have a Green Door with Index 01, is it going to open when I collect that Missile tank?

I don't think it will, but I'm asking anyway.

MetroidMst

2009-06-20 12:15:58 pm

Go ahead. Stare.

Your door will not open unless you've been messing around with other stuff.

Kejardon

2009-06-20 02:32:13 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

There's actually room for 01FF unique indexes for doors AND items. Item 0200 would be door 0000 (and also event 0400 but I don't think anyone will be concerned about that), and they overlap from there on.

So yes, it is possible to open a door by picking up an item. However, just like two items with the same index, it won't disappear immediately if it's in the same room already.

MetroidMst

2009-06-20 02:46:03 pm

Go ahead. Stare.

Ahem... For normal hacks, picking up an item will not affect your doorcaps... I think...

tbolt76

2009-06-20 04:15:53 pm

ok this just happened right out of the blue and set my work back in norfair a couple of rooms when i was browsing though rooms a complete tileset (used in red brinstar got completely scrambled and messed up so bad and im sure nothing was overwritten and i have no idea how it happened and worse i could not be fixed so i had to use a backup hack thats et me back not to far thank goodness so any ideads on how to prevent this in the future?

Jathys

2009-06-20 06:51:41 pm

Quote from tbolt76:

ok this just happened right out of the blue and set my work back in norfair a couple of rooms when i was browsing though rooms a complete tileset (used in red brinstar got completely scrambled and messed up so bad and im sure nothing was overwritten and i have no idea how it happened and worse i could not be fixed so i had to use a backup hack thats et me back not to far thank goodness so any ideads on how to prevent this in the future?

Have you:
a) Edited palettes of a tileset?
b) Edited the gfx of a tileset?
c) Edited the table (ie- the 16x16 tiles) of a tileset?

If so, that's the problem and it can be fixed:

This is a quick guide, not a step-by-step... Any information I leave out is typically data that it is assumed someone editing the game should learn anyway.

a) Find the pointers for the palettes, gfx, and table for the screwed up tileset (this can be found in the gfx editor)
b) Go into a hex editor to the spot it said those pointers were at... It's 3 bytes per pointer, in the order smile gives them. Repoint the stuff to a blank area you won't need (assuming you already found a blank area), making sure there's enough room for the new data (you can figure this in part (c)).
c) Open a "good" rom and export the palette, gfx, and table somewhere.
d) Open the "bad" rom to a room that uses the bad tileset... Even worse now I'm guessing... Import the palette, gfx, and table you just made.

[quote="tbolt76"]ok  this just happened right out of the blue  and set my work back  in norfair  a couple of rooms  when i was browsing though rooms  a complete tileset  (used in red brinstar  got completely scrambled and messed up so bad and im sure nothing was overwritten  and i have no idea how it happened  and worse  i could not be fixed  so i had to use a backup hack  thats et me back not to far thank goodness   so any ideads  on how to prevent this in the future?[/quote]

Have you:
a) Edited palettes of a tileset?
b) Edited the gfx of a tileset?
c) Edited the table (ie- the 16x16 tiles) of a tileset?

If so, that's the problem and it can be fixed:
[spoiler="Disclaimer"]This is a quick guide, not a step-by-step... Any information I leave out is typically data that it is assumed someone editing the game should learn anyway.[/spoiler]
a) Find the pointers for the palettes, gfx, and table for the screwed up tileset (this can be found in the gfx editor)
b) Go into a hex editor to the spot it said those pointers were at... It's 3 bytes per pointer, in the order smile gives them.  Repoint the stuff to a blank area you won't need (assuming you already found a blank area), making sure there's enough room for the new data (you can figure this in part (c)).
c) Open a "good" rom and export the palette, gfx, and table somewhere.
d) Open the "bad" rom to a room that uses the bad tileset... Even worse now I'm guessing... Import the palette, gfx, and table you just made.