Super Metroid/SMILE Help Thread

2007-11-26 08:02:23 pm

Every Bit Counts

Thanks P.JMan. I can't get the item to make gray door flash to work. It's in the missile room (where you get your first set). I set the door's index to 22, and the missiles index to 22. When I pick up the missiles, the doesn't open. Help?

MoogleEmperor

2007-11-26 11:34:41 pm

Items and doors use a separate list of indexes, so you can't do it that way (I've tested this as well as been told it).
The only grey door standards that I know of in the main game are ones that open when a boss is defeated, ones that open when the enemies in the room are cleared, and ones that simply never open, in the escape sequence. I'm not sure the game is programmed to have a grey door open once you have a certain item.

The only way I can think of is to make the door be in a room with an alternate state that depends on items collected and has separate PLMs in each, and make the second state be based off of whether you have missiles or not - simply don't have the doorcap be there in the state where you have missiles. There doesn't appear to be a state for missiles alone, but there is one that is "morph and missiles". I'm not entirely sure you can do this, though.
Or maybe there's another way I don't know of... Though, is there a particular reason why you can't just make it a red doorcap?

I found a solution to my "changing a door's direction" problem, though... I double click on the tile I want to be a door on the tileset pallet, set it's default to door, and it's default BTS to the door number it should be. I've made it work. I had a feeling it had something to do with BTS, but I can't entirely understand the drag-and-drop pallet for them, other than applying slopes.

Items and doors use a separate list of indexes, so you can't do it that way (I've tested this as well as been told it).
The only grey door standards that I know of in the main game are ones that open when a boss is defeated, ones that open when the enemies in the room are cleared, and ones that simply never open, in the escape sequence. I'm not sure the game is programmed to have a grey door open once you have a certain item.

The only way I can think of is to make the door be in a room with an alternate state that depends on items collected and has separate PLMs in each, and make the second state be based off of whether you have missiles or not - simply don't have the doorcap be there in the state where you have missiles. There doesn't appear to be a state for missiles alone, but there is one that is "morph and missiles". I'm not entirely sure you can do this, though.
Or maybe there's another way I don't know of... Though, is there a particular reason why you can't just make it a red doorcap?

I found a solution to my "changing a door's direction" problem, though... I double click on the tile I want to be a door on the tileset pallet, set it's default to door, and it's default BTS to the door number it should be. I've made it work. I had a feeling it had something to do with BTS, but I can't entirely understand the drag-and-drop pallet for them, other than applying slopes.

Fano7

2007-11-27 04:20:55 pm

Every Bit Counts

So you can't do the item to open door thing. :( :-({|= Anyways, how did Saturn lock the door to the spazer until you beat Kraid in SMI? Sorry, I'm new to Smile.

Black Telomeres

2007-11-27 05:10:30 pm

I assume he used the metal door index that automatically opens when Kraid's dead (it leads to that e-tank in the original SM)

Fano7

2007-11-27 05:15:09 pm

Every Bit Counts

Oh. Anyways, have you (BT) tried to set an item and a metal door to a certain index (like set both to 22)? If so, did you get the door to open? And in the enemy vulnerability, does 2 mean it the enemy takes 2 times the damage?

Black Telomeres

2007-11-27 05:22:48 pm

Yeah, it seems the item/door technique doesn't work because they work on different index systems. So you cant set the spacejump to index 90 and then have a metal door with the index 90 open after you pick up the SJ.

And I'm not sure about the enemy vulnerability thing. I didn't mess with it much. That may be what it means though. I think I've seen 04 there as well for some enemies in response to super missiles.

Fano7

2007-11-27 05:28:53 pm

Every Bit Counts

that sucks. I need to think of another way to make SJ unskippable.

P.JMan

2007-11-27 05:32:49 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Yes, it does. Although, most enemies have 2, so it's pretty much standard. The only time you have 1 is when you want enemies to have half the damage done to them

Edward_Tohr

2007-11-27 07:32:43 pm

Stuffs. Yar.

Quote from Fano7:

I need to think of another way to make SJ unskippable.

Hmm... you could make it so that people need to go through a morphball tunnel to get to someplace they need to go, then stick the SJ in there...

Cardweaver

2007-11-27 07:48:46 pm

Quote from Black Telomeres:

Yeah, it seems the item/door technique doesn't work because they work on different index systems. So you cant set the spacejump to index 90 and then have a metal door with the index 90 open after you pick up the SJ.

And I'm not sure about the enemy vulnerability thing. I didn't mess with it much. That may be what it means though. I think I've seen 04 there as well for some enemies in response to super missiles.

Um... I use an item triggered door in Gravy and it works fine. The door leading to the lava room before LN is grey unless you have the E-tank after draygon. Once you pick up the E-tank... no more grey door. Both the door and the E-tank have index 9A, with no unknown value. The only problem with this is that if both the item and door are in the same room, it won't work. I think when you leave/enter a room, a check is made about PLMs: this allows the game to realize that you already have PLM 9A, so the grey door isnt loaded.

MoogleEmperor

Edit history:

MoogleEmperor: 2007-11-27 08:43:27 pm

2007-11-27 08:31:17 pm

Unknown 00 is used on grey doors that open after a boss is dead, so perhaps it's opening because Draygon is defeated? Otherwise, I don't know...
I've tested this. I made a doorcap and an item with the same index (01), collected the item, then reloaded the room. The doorcap was still there.

[Edit]: Just tested it again. Doesn't work. I tried the same index you used and a grey door specifically, too.

Fano7

2007-11-27 08:56:37 pm

Every Bit Counts

Try it with a the first missle pack and add a grey door to the next room. It doesn't work. If it does for you, tell us the steps to do it please. Edward, thats a good idea.

Sigfriedxx

2007-11-27 10:03:49 pm

why are you trying to get a grey door to flash from picking up a missile pack? thats not gonna work...

ducknerd

2007-11-27 10:18:23 pm

Eschews avatars

Or, you could have the door exiting the SJ room be a red door with the same index as your gray door...

@Zanno: IDK about editable backgrounds, but Kejardon's page (http://drewseph.zophar.net/Kejardon/) should give you some handy info, and SMILE should be able to give you the pointers of any data you're editing if you feel the need to do it manually. Sounds like your project is pretty ambitious.

Edward_Tohr

2007-11-27 11:11:40 pm

Stuffs. Yar.

Quote from Fano7:

Edward, thats a good idea.

Well, considering I was channeling Fusion at the time... :P Then again, the "door is locked until you get the item" thing is a lot more Fusion-esque, so... :P

Cardweaver

2007-11-27 11:57:04 pm

Quote from Fano7:

Try it with a the first missle pack and add a grey door to the next room. It doesn't work. If it does for you, tell us the steps to do it please. Edward, thats a good idea.

Hm. I hacked a rom to be perfect. grey door in first room, e tank in next. went back to the first room... door still grey. Don't understand why it works for gravy. IT might be that draygon dieing triggers it, but then why didn't it work before the indexes were the same? I don't know, but did you guys try making a... oops. ducknerd beat me to it. his idea should theoretically work, but that still won't solve the space jump problem.

Also, as a random idea for making SJ necessary: give it to samus early, while still suitless. Then have a long heated room with a gap filled with acid and spikes. can't bomb jump underacid, never'll survive the heat HBJing. It makes SJ necessary. But then, they'll have SJ for the rest of the game...

Kejardon

Edit history:

Kejardon: 2007-11-28 12:54:32 am

2007-11-28 12:51:13 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

I don't think I've ever publicly put up the data for grey doors... guess I'll do that now.

Code:

Grey Door options
Area Boss #1 (Main Bosses) (00)
Area Boss #2 (Minibosses, Mother Brain) (04)
Area Boss #3 (Torizos) (08)
Room Enemies cleared (0C)
Always Closed (10)
Closed if 1E6D is positive (What does this mean?) (14)
Dachoras and Etecoons saved (Event Bit 000F is set) (18)

This is half-off-the-top-of-my head, so it might be off a bit. And yeah, I still never found out what 1E6D is.
::edit:: And you can add up to 3 to the unknown and still get the same effect. Those bits are actually part of the door ID - there are a TON of bits set aside for door, item, and events and only about 1/5 are actually used in the original game.

Zanno

2007-11-28 05:23:56 pm

Quote from ducknerd:

Or, you could have the door exiting the SJ room be a red door with the same index as your gray door...

@Zanno: IDK about editable backgrounds, but Kejardon's page (http://drewseph.zophar.net/Kejardon/) should give you some handy info, and SMILE should be able to give you the pointers of any data you're editing if you feel the need to do it manually. Sounds like your project is pretty ambitious.

Doesn't have any info on backgrounds, but a lot of useful info regardless. Thanks.

I am making an entire world from scratch (though certain rooms may seem familiar here and there) so I want to remove as much unnecessary data from the game as I can. I've been poking through the $8F bank a lot lately and it really sucks how it's organized, it makes it a pain to create bigger rooms with scroll data without corrupting something else. At the moment I've halted actual design progress on the project trying to figure out what parts of the $8F data I can safely overwrite without problems.

Also, what does the Layer1_2 pointer do? It seems like an awful lot of rooms share the same pointer there.

[quote="ducknerd"]
Or, you could have the door exiting the SJ room be a red door with the same index as your gray door...

@Zanno: IDK about editable backgrounds, but Kejardon's page (http://drewseph.zophar.net/Kejardon/) should give you some handy info, and SMILE should be able to give you the pointers of any data you're editing if you feel the need to do it manually. Sounds like your project is pretty ambitious.
[/quote]Doesn't have any info on backgrounds, but a lot of useful info regardless. Thanks.

I am making an entire world from scratch (though certain rooms may seem familiar here and there) so I want to remove as much unnecessary data from the game as I can. I've been poking through the $8F bank a lot lately and it really sucks how it's organized, it makes it a pain to create bigger rooms with scroll data without corrupting something else. At the moment I've halted actual design progress on the project trying to figure out what parts of the $8F data I can safely overwrite without problems.

Also, what does the Layer1_2 pointer do? It seems like an awful lot of rooms share the same pointer there.

Black Telomeres

2007-11-28 06:31:50 pm

Jathys was just talking about the next version of SMILE in IRC yesterday, and it seems he's programming it to use portions of the $8F bank to allow people to create new pointerplm data. So take from that what you will. It may not effect you if you never plan on using that new function, though.

Fano7

2007-11-30 07:29:10 pm

Every Bit Counts

is there a way to copy a pml? I want to use the door that unlocks after Kraid, and place that some where else in another room. Also, the door's index is 40. Does that mean anything? I really want to know smile like the back of my hand (bad example, I don't know the back of my hand :)). Thanks for dealing with my questions.

Sigfriedxx

2007-11-30 11:34:12 pm

yes, just make a plm with the same properties

Fano7

Edit history:

Fano7: 2007-12-01 04:33:52 pm

2007-12-01 08:05:57 am

Every Bit Counts

thank you drewseph. I'll say if it worked or not later today (busy right now).

Edit: Both Kraid's suck wayyyyyyyyy toooooooooo much. I got the mini to work again. But large, he really suck. Crashes the game. If anyone wants to try to fix it, I'll post the ips. But keep in mind that both me and P.JMan have spent hours trying to fix it over at IRC.

Black Telomeres

2007-12-01 07:22:19 pm

Hm, what'd you do that messed up Kraid?

Fano7

Edit history:

Fano7: 2007-12-01 10:34:51 pm

2007-12-01 07:26:04 pm

Every Bit Counts

I don't know. Heres the ips if you want to try and fix it. Also, P.JMan has worked on it, but he's had no luck. Also, I somehow changed mini-Kraid's values without even touching him, Changed the value of an unknown in Kraid's room without touching it, and I changed the FX1 of the room before Kraid without even clicking on FX1. I hate those 3 rooms. I will be vey thankful to whoever will try and fix this. And I am not going to skip Kraid, so don't think about that.

Edit: This is for headered roms.

attachment:

Super Metroid Crazy.IPS

Black Telomeres

2007-12-02 12:50:50 am

Well, after taking a look at the room in SMILE and a couple of the rooms before it, i can tell you that I can't fix it (although maybe someone more experienced with the 'knight' errors can; I just avoid those errors rather than trying to get rid of them once they appear, so I have no experience trying to fix them.)

But anyway, I can tell you what most likely caused the error. Adding or deleting enemies or PLMs is most likely it. I take it you removed the pirates from the miniKraid room instead of just moving them offscreen? Some of the green scuttlebugs in the room before Kraid also seem to be missing. Jathys should really put a warning on the Enemy/PLM +/- script that says to basically not use it unless you know you've freed up space. Otherwise adjacent rooms may have those happy knights or random PLMs appearing in them in random places. SM:SAC has these errors in a few rooms and I recall someone in IRC mentioning that there probably weren't any errors in SM;SAC that weren't able to be fixed, so there's probably someone out there who might be able to fix it. However, 1. it may be so much trouble to fix it that it wouldn't be worth it to you, and 2. the Kraid room may be a lot more fragile than other rooms and may be able to be permanently borked. Maybe make a backup and attempt to delete all but one of the knights in Kraid's boss room (he's stored as one of them). But somehow I think that'd be too easy to be the real solution.

And, btw, if you didn't remove those pirates in the miniKraid room, it may be a cascading effect from altering enemies in rooms prior.

If you didn't add/remove any PLMs or any enemies and didn't edit the rom in a hex editor, then I really have no idea what caused the error then.

Well, after taking a look at the room in SMILE and a couple of the rooms before it, i can tell you that I can't fix it (although maybe someone more experienced with the 'knight' errors can; I just avoid those errors rather than trying to get rid of them once they appear, so I have no experience trying to fix them.)

But anyway, I can tell you what most likely caused the error. Adding or deleting enemies or PLMs is most likely it. I take it you removed the pirates from the miniKraid room instead of just moving them offscreen? Some of the green scuttlebugs in the room before Kraid also seem to be missing. Jathys should really put a warning on the Enemy/PLM +/- script that says to basically not use it unless you know you've freed up space. Otherwise adjacent rooms may have those happy knights or random PLMs appearing in them in random places. SM:SAC has these errors in a few rooms and I recall someone in IRC mentioning that there probably weren't any errors in SM;SAC that weren't able to be fixed, so there's probably someone out there who might be able to fix it. However, 1. it may be so much trouble to fix it that it wouldn't be worth it to you, and 2. the Kraid room may be a lot more fragile than other rooms and may be able to be permanently borked. Maybe make a backup and attempt to delete all but one of the knights in Kraid's boss room (he's stored as one of them). But somehow I think that'd be too easy to be the real solution.

And, btw, if you didn't remove those pirates in the miniKraid room, it may be a cascading effect from altering enemies in rooms prior.

If you didn't add/remove any PLMs or any enemies and didn't edit the rom in a hex editor, then I really have no idea what caused the error then.