[SM] Super Metroid: Redesign

Tyjet66

2010-03-01 02:16:22 pm

What'd you say?

Quote from Quietus:

Thanks for posting ma vid, Tyjet. aiwebs_011

No problem, I was going to use another one, but then I saw yours. Cool

Opium

2010-03-01 02:30:36 pm

I'm still having the hardest time with it. I can do the first three bombs, and then it all goes to shit. I'm doing something wrong at that point. Slow-down doesn't help because I can't seem to get the timing right when you cut it in half. I used to be able to do it by laying at bomb at the peak of a spring jump, but then I can't remember what I did after that.

Quietus

2010-03-02 05:16:50 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

The hardest part is the height of the third bomb, as if it's too high or too low, it throws the pattern. The timing is much tighter in this than in Super, meaning that you can't stray from the rhythm as much, because it all falls apart, but in saying that you can see in my vid that the timing toward the end goes a little bit awry.

The first is obvious, and the second is laid moments after it explodes. This is more to do with timing, as you can't really wait for it to explode. The third needs to be laid approximately one tile / morph height from the peak that the first bomb threw you to. If you manage to get that one bomb at the correct height, then the rest is quite easy, and can be done purely visually, as you just lay it at the peak of every jump.

I'd suggest practicing the first three bombs WITHOUT IBJing first. If you manage to bounce yourself up on that annoyingly-placed bomb, then you know you've got the timing down, and the rest should follow.

Did you check the non-scrolling version, as that can be clearer to see..?

The hardest part is the height of the third bomb, as if it's too high or too low, it throws the pattern.  The timing is much tighter in this than in Super, meaning that you can't stray from the rhythm as much, because it all falls apart, but in saying that you can see in my vid that the timing toward the end goes a little bit awry.

The first is obvious, and the second is laid moments after it explodes.  This is more to do with timing, as you can't really wait for it to explode.  The third needs to be laid approximately one tile / morph height from the peak that the first bomb threw you to.  If you manage to get that one bomb at the correct height, then the rest is quite easy, and can be done purely visually, as you just lay it at the peak of every jump.

I'd suggest practicing the first three bombs WITHOUT IBJing first.  If you manage to bounce yourself up on that annoyingly-placed bomb, then you know you've got the timing down, and the rest should follow.

Did you check the non-scrolling version, as that can be clearer to see..?

Opium

2010-03-02 05:47:16 am

I still don't understand how only placing bomb at the height of the jump will help you - I'm missing something else. If I just place a bomb at the height of the jump, then what is propelling me back up to that bomb in order for it to launch me anywhere? I'm unable to even conceptualize how that could work.

Quietus

Edit history:

Quietus: 2010-03-02 07:22:56 am

2010-03-02 07:21:29 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I'll use numbers to denote which bomb is exploding, and propelling you upward:

Lay your first bomb.
Lay your second bomb. 1 <- Exploding, remember. Wink

Lay the third one tile below the peak.
2
Lay your bomb at the peak.
3
Lay your bomb at the peak.
4
And so on.

Each bomb that you lay at the peak is the one that propels you on the next jump, so you lay the bomb, fall slightly, get bounced up by the lower bomb, then lay another, fall back, et cetera.

I'll attach a picture tonight. Hopefully that'll be clearer than wording. aiwebs_014

Opium

2010-03-02 06:00:29 pm

I've given up on trying for now, but will continue to try it every once in a while until it clicks. Went ahead and finished my current game and actually saved the animals for the first time. I'm glad they moved your ship, given the location of the animals. I still had over 5 minutes left on the escape, but I did use save states. Also, is it just me or is the mother brain fight different? The first rainbow beam attack took WAY more than 3 etanks - is that because it takes away your suit instantly? Also, I could not get up from the rainbow attack in spite of the fact that I had at least 6 full tanks. Anyways, the end result was 5:49 with 89.8%. Gonna keep playing this, because I find it hard to jump between this hack and other versions of the game because everything else seems so floaty after this. My ultimate goal is a sub 6-hour 100%, gotta figure out that IBJ again first.

Prime Hunter

2010-03-02 10:38:35 pm

That caught me off guard the first time I did that fight. I expected the standard 3 energy tank loss from MB, but instead ended up dying because it's closer to 5 that you lose if I saw right.

Opium

2010-03-04 12:23:41 pm

5:32 100.0%

Way better than the sub 6 hour I was going for, but that's probably from the save state abuse while trying to get some of the more difficult items.

Quietus

2010-03-04 04:51:28 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

You know, you should try getting into the habit of recording all of your runs. By default, the recording overwrites the same file, so if you get a cack one, you can just start again. Movie states can be made the same as normal, so it doesn't need to be full of cock-ups. But you never know when you'll get one of those great runs, and it'll be interesting to see. Very Happy

If you want to keep one, just rename the .smv, and start over.

Sigfriedxx

2010-03-04 08:56:29 pm

Someone should actually make a good 100% tas. the current one being made is nowhere near optimized for speed

Quietus

2010-03-05 05:45:29 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Yeah, I've seen some of the ones by Kamb3ck, if those are the ones you mean, but I noticed that it's not very optimised. I posted a message just yesterday about him wasting time killing the Kagos to reach the Super switches in Maridia, as he can just glitch through them. I guess the TAS itself isn't the tough part, but route planning is so immense in your hack. It's your own fault for making it so big! Razz

In saying that, I too am itching for a good 100% run, either TAS or non-TAS. I've seen a couple, including your own Live Stream one, but I don't think they had any real route planning beforehand.

sportlov

Edit history:

sportlov: 2010-03-09 05:10:56 am

2010-03-09 05:08:26 am

Quote from Sigfriedxx:

Someone should actually make a good 100% tas. the current one being made is nowhere near optimized for speed

This is all I got for my test run http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1288512799/Redesign-tease.smv

I'm sorry, but I haven't worked on it since September last year due to being under alot of stress among things.

Whenever I get some more time on my hands I'll do my best to continue.

It's not optimized either though, I'm sorry. Just working on a little trying to get used to the game and TAS'ing stuff.

Saga

2010-03-20 12:20:40 pm

Abandon All Hope !!

Simplifying your work is good ..
So keep always giving some adjustments in your adventure ...
This will be of great tance to alternative paths

See You Next Time !!

Sarabadá

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2010-08-24 03:06:49 am

Prime Hunter: 2010-08-24 03:05:37 am

2010-08-24 03:04:20 am

You know, it's funny how opinions can change upon giving something a second chance. I'm still in a Metroid mood after playing all of the core games over the last week, and since we've got another week until Other M, I decided to give Redesign another go since it's been six months now since I first played it and was introduced to the hacking community.

I decided to stop for tonight after I got a little bit into Maridia, and just like Opium predicted, a lot of those issues I had with the game the first time around have been evaporating left and right. From the first moment I got the Wall-Jump Boots for instance, one of my biggest complaints with the game during my first time around, I've gotten nearly perfect with it and can even jump up a single wall a little if there is enough room to do so. (Interesting thing to note is that the FIRST time I used the wall-jump to get out of its area, I got up instantly.) Most of the other things I commented on after my first run are either non-existent because I'm better equipped than I was before, or else I simply know the way. I've surprised myself with how well I remember both individual rooms/puzzles and the overall structure of the game as a whole. I haven't needed to look at the map I downloaded AT ALL, but I have a feeling I'll need to do that once I get towards the end and need the Chozo Guardians. I do have 2 of them already and remember where a few others are though, so who knows.

So overall, the game has given me a MUCH, MUCH better impression the second time around now that I not only understand the game better, but hacks in general. (Doesn't hurt that I feel like I'm playing smarter this time too.) Hopefully the late game drag that effected me so much last time will be minimal and I can fully enjoy this game properly from start to end.

You know, it's funny how opinions can change upon giving something a second chance. I'm still in a Metroid mood after playing all of the core games over the last week, and since we've got another week until Other M, I decided to give Redesign another go since it's been six months now since I first played it and was introduced to the hacking community.

I decided to stop for tonight after I got a little bit into Maridia, and just like Opium predicted, a lot of those issues I had with the game the first time around have been evaporating left and right. From the first moment I got the Wall-Jump Boots for instance, one of my biggest complaints with the game during my first time around, I've gotten nearly perfect with it and can even jump up a single wall a little if there is enough room to do so. (Interesting thing to note is that the FIRST time I used the wall-jump to get out of its area, I got up instantly.) Most of the other things I commented on after my first run are either non-existent because I'm better equipped than I was before, or else I simply know the way. I've surprised myself with how well I remember both individual rooms/puzzles and the overall structure of the game as a whole. I haven't needed to look at the map I downloaded AT ALL, but I have a feeling I'll need to do that once I get towards the end and need the Chozo Guardians. I do have 2 of them already and remember where a few others are though, so who knows.

So overall, the game has given me a MUCH, MUCH better impression the second time around now that I not only understand the game better, but hacks in general. (Doesn't hurt that I feel like I'm playing smarter this time too.) Hopefully the late game drag that effected me so much last time will be minimal and I can fully enjoy this game properly from start to end.

Opium

Edit history:

Opium: 2010-08-24 09:30:03 am

2010-08-24 09:29:35 am

Oh shit, now I have the itch to play it again. There goes all the stuff I was planning on getting done over the next couple days.

I'm really glad you're enjoying it more this time.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2010-08-25 02:41:10 am

2010-08-24 10:14:00 am

Heh, oops. Sorry about that. Wink

Edit: So I finished Redesign once again, and although I had a much better appreciation for the game this time around, the end did start to drag on a little as I was afraid of. The escape sequence is still a tad long for my liking, although from an atmospheric perspective it's possibly the best escape I've seen in a hack due to the environment and the amount of effort it takes to physically crawl your way back to the surface. (But I'd like to stress that having TWO metroids in the escape that can dish out a ton of pain at such a critical moment like that is not my idea of fun.)

The final tally was 7:58 with 62.8% items. So it's an improvement from the first time at least. (11 e-tanks, 1 reserve, 173 missiles, 15 supers, 14 power bombs at the end) I'm proud of myself though, since I managed to not only get all 12 Chozo without using a map/guide, but I managed to collect the X-Ray Scope as well. (I had seen the speed booster blocks in my first playthrough, but didn't know how to get down there.)

But yeah, most of my complaints and issues with Redesign from the first time around are either minimized now or else of no concern, which is a HUGE plus in this game's favor for me playing it again down the line.

Heh, oops. Sorry about that. :wink:

Edit: So I finished Redesign once again, and although I had a much better appreciation for the game this time around, the end did start to drag on a little as I was afraid of. The escape sequence is still a tad long for my liking, although from an atmospheric perspective it's possibly the best escape I've seen in a hack due to the environment and the amount of effort it takes to physically crawl your way back to the surface. (But I'd like to stress that having TWO metroids in the escape that can dish out a ton of pain at such a critical moment like that is not my idea of fun.)

The final tally was 7:58 with 62.8% items. So it's an improvement from the first time at least. (11 e-tanks, 1 reserve, 173 missiles, 15 supers, 14 power bombs at the end) I'm proud of myself though, since I managed to not only get all 12 Chozo without using a map/guide, but I managed to collect the X-Ray Scope as well. (I had seen the speed booster blocks in my first playthrough, but didn't know how to get down there.)

But yeah, most of my complaints and issues with Redesign from the first time around are either minimized now or else of no concern, which is a HUGE plus in this game's favor for me playing it again down the line.

Zeke

Edit history:

Zeke: 2010-08-31 03:31:43 pm

2010-08-31 03:19:54 pm

Time bomb set get out fast!

Here's something I just found that should be of interest to our local Redesigniacs:

This game is awesome, guys! I'll prove it. Let's Play Super Metroid (Redesign)!

It's a pictorial Let's Play of Redesign (as in screencaps and commentary, not video) conducted by VorpalEdge, a.k.a. godspeedEdge, a.k.a. Maur, the latter being the name old-time m2k2ers know him by. His fondness for Redesign appears genuine, but that doesn't stop him from getting really mad at it. Some of the other posters are rather vicious to the hack and even Drew personally, so let me stress that I don't endorse any particular posts, I just found the thread entertaining. There are some particularly cool insights from Dart Zaidyer, who was one of Drew's beta testers; there are also a couple more (maur?) m2k2 cameos later on.

Btw, you know how Drew used to talk about possibly making an easy "Axiel version" of Redesign? The LP thread taught me why. Watch this video and know that Axiel is the guy playing it.

Here's something I just found that should be of interest to our local Redesigniacs:

[url=http://toastyfrog.com/talkingtime/showthread.php?t=7976]This game is awesome, guys! I'll prove it. Let's Play Super Metroid (Redesign)![/url]

It's a pictorial Let's Play of Redesign (as in screencaps and commentary, not video) conducted by VorpalEdge, a.k.a. godspeedEdge, a.k.a. Maur, the latter being the name old-time m2k2ers know him by.  His fondness for Redesign appears genuine, but that doesn't stop him from getting really mad at it. Some of the other posters are rather vicious to the hack and even Drew personally, so let me stress that I don't endorse any particular posts, I just found the thread entertaining. There are some particularly cool insights from Dart Zaidyer, who was one of Drew's beta testers; there are also a couple more (maur?) m2k2 cameos later on.

Btw, you know how Drew used to talk about possibly making an easy "Axiel version" of Redesign? The LP thread taught me why. [url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2827173957718226428&hl=en#]Watch this video[/url] and know that Axiel is the guy playing it.

Quietus

2010-08-31 04:18:19 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I've never understood most of the hate for the hack. As far as I know the hack was never aimed at new players to Super Metroid, but offered those already experienced in playing the game a new version of the story. Moving from Super to this was no great leap, and the changes - most notably the physics and wall-jumping - were fun to learn. I make no excuses for people playing this hack on a keyboard. They deserve all they get. Razz

The other thing I find amusing is that everybody hates on it by saying that they had no idea where to go, and we're suposed to believe that when they first played Super they knew the entire game inside out, and knew exactly where to go. I think not. I probably died way more times playing the original than this hack.

Opium

2010-08-31 04:33:52 pm

I think it's just easier for some people to criticize the hack rather than their own skill set and/or patience level. If Redesign had been made by nintendo, they'd all be saying how awesome it is.

Tyjet66

Edit history:

Tyjet66: 2010-08-31 06:27:15 pm

Tyjet66: 2010-08-31 06:26:32 pm

Tyjet66: 2010-08-31 06:26:03 pm

2010-08-31 06:25:21 pm

What'd you say?

Since this is kinda on topic, I started a new playthrough and I've noticed a few things:

Permastuck

Tiling error

Tiling error

I'll post more as I see them.

Quietus

2010-08-31 06:27:55 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

In a hack this big, there are probably no end. It'll take you an age to find them all. Very Happy

Archlord_Pie

2010-09-03 09:37:58 pm

Rawrgh.

This thread is not about me using a map while playing Redesign. Yes, I am a noob, thank you for noticing.

ANYWAYS, so I'm currently stuck trying to get this stupid reserve tank. It's #57 on the map and I marked it with a big red arrow for your convenience. It's behind one of those silly speed block dynamos, and my problem is getting a shinespark up there. At best, I can make it up to the platform beneath the door that leads into that room, open it, then shinespark up. If I jump in, I lose the charge before I get through the door... I'm currently using the room to the right of the shaft room (marked with a big pink arrow) for charging the spark.

Am I just really bad at this? Does it need to be done TAS style? Am I charging in the wrong spot? Is the way I'm going about this totally wrong?

tl;dr: halp im stumpd

attachment:

metroidredesignmapcurrenthelpme.PNG

Opium

2010-09-03 09:40:49 pm

There are several items in the game that I pretty much always use TAS to get, and that's one of them.

Zeke

2010-09-04 01:33:55 am

Time bomb set get out fast!

Archlord, I'll start with this because it's important: do you know that the shinespark in this game is rechargeable, like in Fusion and Zero Mission? You spark into a ramp while holding the run button. You'll never get most of the "dynamo" items otherwise.

(Sorry if your intelligence is insulted, but half the time when people ask about speed blocks in Redesign, they don't know that.)

Okay, so assuming you knew... the thing to remember about Redesign is that in DrewSeph's mind, every item is obtainable without savestates. And he's put his money where his mouth is -- he did a 100% run last year with only a handful of states (and those only because his viewers begged). The logical conclusion, based on others' experiences, is that he's somewhat more skillful and/or patient than the average hack player. There are items in Redesign that no one will look down on you for using savestates on, as long as you're honest about it.

That said, the item you're talking about isn't all that hard. If memory serves, you only need to recharge once or twice. The tricky part is space jumping up the shaft without accidentally sparking. I haven't personally done it without states, but I've done it saving only in the door transitions. If I had to go without states, it would probably take me a while, but I'd definitely get it. There's a Mother Ship energy tank in Zero Mission that's at least as hard, if not harder... and the Fusion secret message is much harder, but players still pull it off.

So no, there's no trick to it. You've just gotta persevere.

Archlord, I'll start with this because it's important: do you know that the shinespark in this game is rechargeable, like in Fusion and Zero Mission? You spark into a ramp while holding the run button. You'll never get most of the "dynamo" items otherwise.

(Sorry if your intelligence is insulted, but half the time when people ask about speed blocks in Redesign, they don't know that.)

Okay, so assuming you knew... the thing to remember about Redesign is that [i]in DrewSeph's mind[/i], every item is obtainable without savestates. And he's put his money where his mouth is -- he did a 100% run last year with only a handful of states (and those only because his viewers begged). The logical conclusion, based on others' experiences, is that he's somewhat more skillful and/or patient than the average hack player. There are items in Redesign that no one will look down on you for using savestates on, as long as you're honest about it.

That said, the item you're talking about isn't all [i]that[/i] hard. If memory serves, you only need to recharge once or twice. The tricky part is space jumping up the shaft without accidentally sparking. I haven't personally done it without states, but I've done it saving only in the door transitions. If I had to go without states, it would probably take me a while, but I'd definitely get it. There's a Mother Ship energy tank in Zero Mission that's at least as hard, if not harder... and the Fusion secret message is [i]much[/i] harder, but players still pull it off.

So no, there's no trick to it.  You've just gotta persevere.

Archlord_Pie

Edit history:

Archlord_Pie: 2010-09-04 10:47:12 am

2010-09-04 10:34:22 am

Rawrgh.

I thought that spark-into-the-ramp trick didn't work in Super... must not have been holding the run button I guess. I've played Fusion to death though, so I do know about that. No offense taken :)

EDIT: Got it. I used one savestate at the room transition and another after recharging on that conveniently-placed slope. Probably wouldn't have needed the second one if shinesparking worked the way it does in Fusion, but that's just because I'm more used to Fusion.