sequence break and speed trick discussion

2006-07-03 11:13:34 pm

Quote from primetime:

Oh, wait a sec, now that I think about it, skipping the trace battle might break that file if the barrier doesn't go down. I'll have to check that out to make sure.

Yeah, I was about to say that, my guess is that it will either break the game or you will have to re-trigger it.

As for the desecretizing the room, I think that might work, I believe the Magmaul door is part of the main area. It still needs to be tested though, and it sounds like it might be hard to do. I think I have a saved game there so I might try it.

primetime

2006-07-04 12:20:40 am

I tried it, and the barriers gone once you go back to arcterra.

And the magmaul door isn't part of the main area. what I meant was that maybe if you pressed up against the barrier, that would be far enough into the main room to desecretize the room. I tried it after coming back to arcterra after beating the boss, and I was able to desecretize the magmaul room without going all the way in it by going between the loading point for the two areas (but staying outside the room). Unfortunately, since I did it when the barrier wasn't there it doesn't mean that it'll work for sure.

Derek

2006-07-04 12:57:53 am

Yeah, after 45 minutes of trying that jump I found the same thing. It took forever to finally get it where the main room was de-secretized, but the magmaul door still was. I can also scratch off your idea there as well, the loading point between the two areas is at the doorway (where the Noxus barrier is), but the Trace barrier is inside that, so when I was between the Magmaul door and the Trace barrier it didn't load the Magmaul area.

For anyone brave (or bored) enough to try this themselves, this is the best I've found for entering the secret world without secretizing the main area: When you're jumping through the wall, aim to land on the very edge of the ramp to your left (I did this by jumping throuh and immediately tapping the left button), it juts slightly from the wall, and if you land on the edge you can remain in the secret world. However, even when you do this it sometimes secretizes the main area anyway, I seemed to find that the difference was how quickly I hit the left button, if you hit it as soon as you jump through the wall then it will work, but if you wait too long it will secretize the room.

Yeah, after 45 minutes of trying that jump I found the same thing. It took forever to finally get it where the main room was de-secretized, but the magmaul door still was. I can also scratch off your idea there as well, the loading point between the two areas is at the doorway (where the Noxus barrier is), but the Trace barrier is inside that, so when I was between the Magmaul door and the Trace barrier it didn't load the Magmaul area.

For anyone brave (or bored) enough to try this themselves, this is the best I've found for entering the secret world without secretizing the main area: When you're jumping through the wall, aim to land on the very edge of the ramp to your left (I did this by jumping throuh and immediately tapping the left button), it juts slightly from the wall, and if you land on the edge you can remain in the secret world. However, even when you do this it sometimes secretizes the main area anyway, I seemed to find that the difference was how quickly I hit the left button, if you hit it as soon as you jump through the wall then it will work, but if you wait too long it will secretize the room.

primetime

2006-07-04 01:23:27 am

Weird, I was able to get it to work. I went over to the edge of the magmaul room and walked up next to that line between the two areas and it loaded the magmaul room. After that I was able to get into the next room without the game freezing. But I was only able to be in there for a second before the timer ran out since I was escaping.

Oh, and my tactic for getting the main area to stay loaded is to stay on the left side of the block so that the wall is covering up a little more than half of the screen. Then I just jump without moving at all. If I'm in just the right spot, the main area stays loaded.

Edit: I tried it again, but during the noxus battle, and I think I ran into the same problem as you. I guess the first time I got lucky, but if you get it just right, you can desecretize the magmaul room without going inside it. If you do that then you could probably scan the 6th lock and then grab the artifact and skip the noxus battle. And hope that the barrier goes away when you come back.

Weird, I was able to get it to work. I went over to the edge of the magmaul room and walked up next to that line between the two areas and it loaded the magmaul room. After that I was able to get into the next room without the game freezing. But I was only able to be in there for a second before the timer ran out since I was escaping.

Oh, and my tactic for getting the main area to stay loaded is to stay on the left side of the block so that the wall is covering up a little more than half of the screen. Then I just jump without moving at all. If I'm in just the right spot, the main area stays loaded.

Edit: I tried it again, but during the noxus battle, and I think I ran into the same problem as you. I guess the first time I got lucky, but if you get it just right, you can desecretize the magmaul room without going inside it. If you do that then you could probably scan the 6th lock and then grab the artifact and skip the noxus battle. And hope that the barrier goes away when you come back.

Derek

2006-07-04 10:08:17 am

I DID IT!

Just as you described, I went to the edge of the secret world and angled myself in such a way that I could look slightly inside the doorway, while still in the secret world. The first thing this did was allow me to see the sixth lock, so that should let you skip Noxus (go back into the secret world and enter the artifact room from there). After coming a little bit close to the doorway I was able to de-secretize the magmaul room, I then went back into the secret world and entered between the magmaul door and the Trace barrier and went right into the next room without any problems!

So I think the two results of this are:
1. Skip the Noxus battle (I haven't tested this because I don't have a save there, but it should work)
2. Complete Arcterra 2 immediately after getting the Magmaul (this means early Judicator among other things)

Mr Potter

2006-07-04 10:14:07 am

Don't we already beat Arcterra 2 immediately after Magmaul? :?

Derek

2006-07-04 10:19:22 am

No, we have Arcterra 2 during the Arcterra 1 escape, this is even before the Arcterra 1 escape.

mightypoo007

2006-07-04 01:20:36 pm

Movie for proof please. I'm very interested 8-)

Derek

2006-07-04 01:32:37 pm

Unfortunately I don't have a video camera, so thats out of the question. However I might take some still pics later. I was able to repeat it, so I can confirm that it wasn't a one-time lucky break thing. Right now we have family over for the Fourth, so I won't be able to do anything more until later tonight.

UPDATE: Ok, I got the pictures while my cousins were busy playing DDR (and I was tired with it, that game sure wears you out). My camera isn't that great (in fact, it sucks), so the pictures are pretty blury and somewhat discolored, but you should be able to get the idea.

To do this you first need to have the Magmaul, which itself requires the Judicator. After getting the Magmaul on Alinos return to Arcterra and enter the first room (don't use the portal), make your way up to ledge that looks out on the rest of the room, and look to your right for this wall piece:

Jump into that little nook, and then jump through the wall. You need to be slightly to the left to make it through the wall, and even more to the left to complete the next step. Too far to the left however, and it won't work. It takes a good bit of practice and trial-and-error to get it. When you get through the wall you want to land on the very edge of the ramp below you, which sticks out slightly from the wall, it should look something like this:

You can see the ramp on the bottom left, the wall in the top left, and the secretized area to the right. If you didn't do it right then the secretized area will be to your left and the non-secretized to your right. Keep trying until you get it like this, then just side step off the ramp, turn around, and begin following the edge of the room in a clockwise direction.

This is another view of the room after turning the corner, again you can see the de-secretized main area. Keep following this, but be careful, too far to the left and you will fall off, too far to the right and you will enter the artifact room elevator. A good guide is to look for the doorway ahead (where the main area stops and the Magmaul area begins, not seen in this picture) and align yourself slightly to the left of it.

This is our goal, you can see the doorway mentioned above here. To the left of that is the Magmaul area, currently secretized, to the right is the main room. Move yourself slightly to the right of this door, and try to peer inside, but all the while remaining inside the secret world, if you exit on accident you will have to start over. The first thing you will see is this:

This is the sixth lock, if you are trying to skip the Noxus fight (someone still needs to test this), then scan this and go back, then enter the artifact room from the secret world. For the early Arcterra 2 we will keep inching forward and turning to the left until the Magmaul door appears:

Now move forwards until you have crossed the dividing line between the main area and the Magmaul door area, then step left back into the secret world and it should look like this:

If the Magmaul door disappears instead, this means you didn't cross the dividing line and the Magmaul door area is still secretized. Start back at the "peering into the door" step and try again. Once you get this, just walk forwards in between the Magmaul door and the barrier.

And open the door with the Magmaul.

I hope this all made sense and the pictures weren't too bad, but thats the closest thing I have to a video camera.

Unfortunately I don't have a video camera, so thats out of the question. However I might take some still pics later. I was able to repeat it, so I can confirm that it wasn't a one-time lucky break thing. Right now we have family over for the Fourth, so I won't be able to do anything more until later tonight.

UPDATE: Ok, I got the pictures while my cousins were busy playing DDR (and I was tired with it, that game sure wears you out). My camera isn't that great (in fact, it sucks), so the pictures are pretty blury and somewhat discolored, but you should be able to get the idea.

To do this you first need to have the Magmaul, which itself requires the Judicator. After getting the Magmaul on Alinos return to Arcterra and enter the first room (don't use the portal), make your way up to ledge that looks out on the rest of the room, and look to your right for this wall piece:
[img]http://i6.tinypic.com/1z1670g.jpg[/img]

Jump into that little nook, and then jump through the wall. You need to be slightly to the left to make it through the wall, and even more to the left to complete the next step. Too far to the left however, and it won't work. It takes a good bit of practice and trial-and-error to get it. When you get through the wall you want to land on the very edge of the ramp below you, which sticks out slightly from the wall, it should look something like this:
[img]http://i6.tinypic.com/1z16wit.jpg[/img]

You can see the ramp on the bottom left, the wall in the top left, and the secretized area to the right. If you didn't do it right then the secretized area will be to your left and the non-secretized to your right. Keep trying until you get it like this, then just side step off the ramp, turn around, and begin following the edge of the room in a clockwise direction.
[img]http://i6.tinypic.com/1z16yk8.jpg[/img]

This is another view of the room after turning the corner, again you can see the de-secretized main area. Keep following this, but be careful, too far to the left and you will fall off, too far to the right and you will enter the artifact room elevator. A good guide is to look for the doorway ahead (where the main area stops and the Magmaul area begins, not seen in this picture) and align yourself slightly to the left of it.
[img]http://i6.tinypic.com/1z16zo9.jpg[/img]

This is our goal, you can see the doorway mentioned above here. To the left of that is the Magmaul area, currently secretized, to the right is the main room. Move yourself slightly to the right of this door, and try to peer inside, but all the while remaining inside the secret world, if you exit on accident you will have to start over. The first thing you will see is this:
[img]http://i6.tinypic.com/1z171o6.jpg[/img]

This is the sixth lock, if you are trying to skip the Noxus fight (someone still needs to test this), then scan this and go back, then enter the artifact room from the secret world. For the early Arcterra 2 we will keep inching forward and turning to the left until the Magmaul door appears:
[img]http://i6.tinypic.com/1z172wi.jpg[/img]

Now move forwards until you have crossed the dividing line between the main area and the Magmaul door area, then step left back into the secret world and it should look like this:
[img]http://i6.tinypic.com/1z17591.jpg[/img]

If the Magmaul door disappears instead, this means you didn't cross the dividing line and the Magmaul door area is still secretized. Start back at the "peering into the door" step and try again. Once you get this, just walk forwards in between the Magmaul door and the barrier.
[img]http://i6.tinypic.com/1z175zd.jpg[/img]

And open the door with the Magmaul.
[img]http://i6.tinypic.com/1z176dg.jpg[/img]

I hope this all made sense and the pictures weren't too bad, but thats the closest thing I have to a video camera.

primetime

2006-07-04 06:09:49 pm

Ok, I did it just now too. I got some pics, but I'm gonna upload em later.

If you skip the noxus battle, trace and noxus are basically fighting for eternity. Which means you have to use the portals to get around arcterra.Also, I'm gonna see what happens if you start the battle and then headshot trace.

And one more thing. Derek's way of getting into the secret world is WAY easier than mine. So if anyone else is gonna try it, use his way.

Derek

2006-07-04 06:31:47 pm

You posted in the middle of my update :P

primetime

2006-07-04 07:28:37 pm

heh, oh well. I guess if anyone has a hard time seein those pics, I can post mine since they're better quality. I pretty much took the exact same pics.

Also, I tried doing arcterra 2 during the escape from arcterra 1, and as usual the boss portal didn't work. But the good thing is that I've gotten good enough at getting the main room desecretized that I can usually get in within the 4th or 5th try and get to the second portal about as fast as I can beat trace and the guardians and then climb to the top. So the SW could be used as a speed trick if you get good enough with it.

Another thing I want to see is what happens if you do arcterra 2 first and go into sic transit before beating trace/noxus. I'm thinkin that the same thing will happen during the escape as normal. But I'm not sure. The barrier might still be in front of the magmaul door, or trace might even show up.

Oh, right. I also found out how to desecretize a loading room and secretize the room you were in. You basically just do the same thing that you do when you desecretize the magmaul room. But that only works with rooms where there's an invisible floor next to the door (like in sic transit).

heh, oh well. I guess if anyone has a hard time seein those pics, I can post mine since they're better quality. I pretty much took the exact same pics.

Also, I tried doing arcterra 2 during the escape from arcterra 1, and as usual the boss portal didn't work. But the good thing is that I've gotten good enough at getting the main room desecretized that I can usually get in within the 4th or 5th try and get to the second portal about as fast as I can beat trace and the guardians and then climb to the top. So the SW could be used as a speed trick if you get good enough with it.

Another thing I want to see is what happens if you do arcterra 2 first and go into sic transit before beating trace/noxus. I'm thinkin that the same thing will happen during the escape as normal. But I'm not sure. The barrier might still be in front of the magmaul door, or trace might even show up.

Oh, right. I also found out how to desecretize a loading room and secretize the room you were in. You basically just do the same thing that you do when you desecretize the magmaul room. But that only works with rooms where there's an invisible floor next to the door (like in sic transit).

iamthejackie

2006-07-04 11:59:06 pm

HOLY ****!!! I've been away for far too long. Good job you guys. I'll probably make a video of it soon. Finally got my dslite.

Mr Potter

2006-07-05 11:08:46 am

The question is, is this quicker than doing it normally during the Arcterra 1 escape? It sounds like this is time-consuming, which is okay since it uses secret worlds, which are not acceptable by SDA.

Derek

2006-07-05 01:41:58 pm

I'm not sure, I've never tried timing them. If you can do it perfectly then my guess is it would be slightly faster, but sometimes it can't take many tries before it works, by which time you've lost any advantage. With practice and refinement of technique I think it could be useful. Regardless, its still fun to just do Wink

iamthejackie

2006-07-05 01:58:37 pm

I tried this so many times. The part where you have to remain in the Main Room while doing the SW trick is very hard. I've manage to do it only twice. I did it on the first trip to Arcterra and never actually finish. THe first time I did it, I went into the Energy Tank Room near where you got the first Artifact so I never really passed the force field to get to the Magmaul door. I need an easier way to do the SW trick. It's very difficult.

Derek

2006-07-05 03:30:20 pm

Quote from primetime:

Another thing I want to see is what happens if you do arcterra 2 first and go into sic transit before beating trace/noxus. I'm thinkin that the same thing will happen during the escape as normal. But I'm not sure. The barrier might still be in front of the magmaul door, or trace might even show up.

I'm back with my report on this, the barrier is still there blocking your escape, and you can watch the two still fighting, but you can still escape through Frost Labyrinth (which is a longer route, but the only option in this case) and then intrude into their battle to escape, this cues the Noxus fight, but the doors remain unlocked so you can just run out and finish the escape. When you return the two will be fighting again and you can start the Noxus fight (or skip it again).

I also tested what happens when you skip Noxus, complete arcterra 1, and then skip Trace on the escape (did you test this too?). When you first enter Sic Transit on the escape Noxus will not be fighting Trace and the game will wait for you to cue the Trace fight, when you skip the Trace fight instead and later return the Trace barrier will have disappeared and the room will be empty, so you can completely and permanently skip Noxus and Trace.

Quote:

I tried this so many times. The part where you have to remain in the Main Room while doing the SW trick is very hard. I've manage to do it only twice. I did it on the first trip to Arcterra and never actually finish. THe first time I did it, I went into the Energy Tank Room near where you got the first Artifact so I never really passed the force field to get to the Magmaul door. I need an easier way to do the SW trick. It's very difficult.

Yes, it is by far the hardest part of the trick. The only thing I can say is just keep trying, eventually you will start to get the hang of it. I've tried to figure out more exactly the conditions to do it right, try this: If you have an energy tank, line yourself up facing the wall to jump through such that the square of energy tank is just to the left of the end of the wall, when looking very slightly to the left, and then jump forwards. This seems to give me about a 50/50 chance of getting it, depending on how exact I aligned myself.

[quote="primetime"]Another thing I want to see is what happens if you do arcterra 2 first and go into sic transit before beating trace/noxus. I'm thinkin that the same thing will happen during the escape as normal. But I'm not sure. The barrier might still be in front of the magmaul door, or trace might even show up.[/quote]
I'm back with my report on this, the barrier is still there blocking your escape, and you can watch the two still fighting, but you can still escape through Frost Labyrinth (which is a longer route, but the only option in this case) and then intrude into their battle to escape, this cues the Noxus fight, but the doors remain unlocked so you can just run out and finish the escape. When you return the two will be fighting again and you can start the Noxus fight (or skip it again).

I also tested what happens when you skip Noxus, complete arcterra 1, and then skip Trace on the escape (did you test this too?). When you first enter Sic Transit on the escape Noxus will not be fighting Trace and the game will wait for you to cue the Trace fight, when you skip the Trace fight instead and later return the Trace barrier will have disappeared and the room will be empty, so you can completely and permanently skip Noxus and Trace.

[quote]I tried this so many times. The part where you have to remain in the Main Room while doing the SW trick is very hard. I've manage to do it only twice. I did it on the first trip to Arcterra and never actually finish. THe first time I did it, I went into the Energy Tank Room near where you got the first Artifact so I never really passed the force field to get to the Magmaul door. I need an easier way to do the SW trick. It's very difficult.[/quote]
Yes, it is by far the hardest part of the trick. The only thing I can say is just keep trying, eventually you will start to get the hang of it. I've tried to figure out more exactly the conditions to do it right, try this: If you have an energy tank, line yourself up facing the wall to jump through such that the square of energy tank is just to the left of the end of the wall, when looking [i]very slightly[/i] to the left, and then jump forwards. This seems to give me about a 50/50 chance of getting it, depending on how exact I aligned myself.

primetime

2006-07-05 10:04:37 pm

I don't really have any specific strategies, but once I started to get it to work, I just sorta got the hang of it, and now I just know where to jump and when to press left. I jump when about 3/4 of the screen is covered by the wall, and I tap left as soon as I go through the wall.

Lazylen

(user is banned)

2006-07-05 10:06:28 pm

so i presume that if you skip noxus/trace, you dont ever fight them on other planets?

Derek

2006-07-05 10:42:21 pm

Thats a good question, you definately wouldn't fight them as long as Trace and Noxus keep fighting, but after the Arcterra 1 escape they stop fighting, and then you can probably run into them on other planets.

On another note, much to my surprise, I will now be able to record a video. My mom got a nice new digital camera today for our upcoming trip to Switzerland, and while their also bought a "Pocket Multi-media center", in other words, a crappy camera, video camera, MP3 player, and picture and video viewer all rolled into one. Later tonight or (more likely) tomorrow I'll try recording it and see how well it works, then I'll probably upload it to either Youtube or some hosting site, so we'll see how that goes.

iamthejackie

2006-07-05 11:44:04 pm

If you make the video, can you also post it in the Speed Tricks Video Thread? It's kinda empty for a while.

Derek

2006-07-06 06:48:56 pm

The video is online, enjoy.

Mr Potter

2006-08-01 11:29:02 am

Thanks to CAD's Alimbic Challenge over on SCU, I might have found a MAJOR speed trick that might let you skip well over half the game. I do not know how it works or if it even does anything, but this is what I accidentally did:

I was at Spire; the challenge was to get to Weavel without taking a point of damage, and then beating Weavel without losing more than 24 health. Well, Spire was very difficult, and if you got hit you had to either restart or reset from last checkpoint. I decided to try DBJing to the top of the room during the Voldrum attack, but the Voldrum hit me in the process, so I let the Voldrum hit me until I died. Then it gave me the normal death screen. I saw a white thing appear suddenly, but I didn't think anything of it until I was fighting Spire again; when he's shooting Magmaul at you from the top of the cliff. I shot him a few times and he ran in the door, but an Octolith had appeared in the air in front of him. The Octolith floated over to me and gave me the message "you have recovered a stolen Octolith". I'm going to try this right now; a theory is that maybe if you do this for all eight Octoliths, even if they don't show up when you pause, the game might think you have all eight and allow you to activate the Alimbic Cannon, thus allowing entrance to Oubliette much earlier than expected, with absolutely no extra weapons.

This could mean nothing, or it could be the biggest speed trick ever. Let's see.

EDIT: I copied my Alimbic Challenge file over to save file C, and I cannot get it to work again, which is odd, since it worked every time on the Alimbic Challenge file. Apparently, it matters whether you die in biped or morph ball, and whether or not you have the e-tank. I don't know, I'll edit this post if I get it to work again.

Thanks to CAD's Alimbic Challenge over on SCU, I might have found a MAJOR speed trick that might let you skip well over half the game. I do not know how it works or if it even does anything, but this is what I accidentally did:

I was at Spire; the challenge was to get to Weavel without taking a point of damage, and then beating Weavel without losing more than 24 health. Well, Spire was very difficult, and if you got hit you had to either restart or reset from last checkpoint. I decided to try DBJing to the top of the room during the Voldrum attack, but the Voldrum hit me in the process, so I let the Voldrum hit me until I died. Then it gave me the normal death screen. I saw a white thing appear suddenly, but I didn't think anything of it until I was fighting Spire again; when he's shooting Magmaul at you from the top of the cliff. I shot him a few times and he ran in the door, [b]but an Octolith had appeared in the air in front of him[/b]. The Octolith floated over to me and gave me the message "you have recovered a stolen Octolith". I'm going to try this right now; a theory is that maybe if you do this for all eight Octoliths, even if they don't show up when you pause, the game might think you have all eight and allow you to activate the Alimbic Cannon, thus allowing entrance to Oubliette much earlier than expected, with absolutely no extra weapons.

This could mean nothing, or it could be the biggest speed trick ever. Let's see.

EDIT: I copied my Alimbic Challenge file over to save file C, and I cannot get it to work again, which is odd, since it worked every time on the Alimbic Challenge file. Apparently, it matters whether you die in biped or morph ball, and whether or not you have the e-tank. I don't know, I'll edit this post if I get it to work again.

iamthejackie

2006-08-01 12:57:24 pm

I'll also try it out, but first i wanna do those alimbic challenges. They sound interesting. I tried to register but the first time, I messed up because I clicked under 13 so I clicked back and now I can't register. How long do I have to wait until it lets me register again?

When you died, did it say something like, Octolith stolen?

EDIT: Damn, I found the Alimbic Challenge Signup topic and its closed. So if I do this challenge, my score wont matter?

I've tried this a couple of times, with different death events. Did you check your start screen to see if you actually have 2 Octoliths? Since you died, Im not sure if you actually lost your Octolith (though, my Octolith wasnt stolen when I died from the Voldrum...) and recovered it.

Mr Potter

2006-08-01 02:53:20 pm

That's the point. I think it might be possible to recover Octoliths that weren't stolen until you have eight. I did not get "Hunter has taken an Octolith", although I did see the Octolith appear outside Samus. I think you might want to try collecting the e-tank and dying in biped form.

Also, you must have signed up previously to participate in the Alimbic Challenge.