R.I.P. Super Metroid

2004-07-29 10:18:22 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=9418&topic=15411579

It's all over for this game now; was fun to get what I did though.

Thread title:

Yoshi348

2004-07-29 10:45:27 pm

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Ready and willing.

What, you think a stupid cheated video is gonna kill everything? Honestly, get a thicker skin. Anybody smart would have figured out that there's alot of fake videos running around now anyway, and you sure as hell didn't do it to impress stupid people. Plus you've got a very reputable and well known site tracking the real best times for the Metroid games.

A bit harsh, but I had to lay it blunt. It's not like you need to start running again or anything, but suck it up. I'm saying this for your own good... I hope you read it. There will always be one group of people who know the true value of your work...

Red Scarlet

2004-07-29 10:47:04 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Eh, people will watch this instead of any of the now astronomically slower vids by me or Smokey. That's what I don't like about these, some legit people do their vids for entertainment also, so we lose out against what they do.

Kharay1977

2004-07-29 10:48:45 pm

I would call such a dramatic breaking of your 55 run highly unlikely. Not to stuff any feathers up your behind or anything, but IMHO your run was nearing sheer perfection. You made little or no mistakes, an almost pixel perfect run, as I call those.
And, I don't think a different route could gain a whopping 8 minutes. We're not just talking 8 minutes, no... we're talking about a run that is actually almost 15% faster than your awe inspiring run.

If this 47 minute run is indeed real, I would LOVE (with capitals all across the board there) to see the vid of it.

/me expects 2 billion save/load state moments in the run... :P

Red Scarlet

2004-07-29 10:48:57 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Quote from Yoshi348:

What, you think a stupid cheated video is gonna kill everything?

For me, yes they do. Not only is it 6+ minutes faster than I thought possible, it also gives no reason to bother trying anymore except to brag for a still slower time that most people won't give a crap about.

There are a couple of things that AFAIK are not actually possible to do (2 shinesparks come to mind in how the player gets them to go farther than what actually you would go, and at a point where you would hit a platform), as well as innumerable times something that is very very unlikely for a human to do at regular speed, all in 1 try.

Oh well, I was hoping school started before this kinda stuff came out, as then I wouldn't have known and looked back at 3 weeks wasted time.

nate

2004-07-29 11:00:48 pm

this has been a very difficult night, and i apologize ahead of time for any rampaging emotions you may encounter. at first we all thought the 'advent' of super metroid mutilation through emulation wouldn't be so bad, what with that hilariously craptastic any percent run some days ago.

but this video pretty much put all of our hopes to sleep, and i mean with a punch to the face. i think it's probably quite difficult to imagine what this feels like unless you have actually held the record for a game that was emulated out of its glory. yes, scarlet logically has little reason to be upset, but emotionally it's going to be difficult for a while. it was kind of an open secret that i was going to go for the best any percent time in super metroid, and i am now faced with the prospect of trying to scream out at a deaf audience that some of this machine's pixel-perfect moves are in fact impossible on a console, or worse, that they are indeed possible, but no human is capable of performing them consistently enough to use in a run. that would mean that, as she said, i would become an eternal sideshow. no one seriously competes for a #2 time - take it from me.

i guess i'll see how i feel next week after i move.

this has been a very difficult night, and i apologize ahead of time for any rampaging emotions you may encounter. at first we all thought the 'advent' of super metroid mutilation through emulation wouldn't be so bad, what with that hilariously craptastic any percent run some days ago.

but this video pretty much put all of our hopes to sleep, and i mean with a punch to the face. i think it's probably quite difficult to imagine what this feels like unless you have actually held the record for a game that was emulated out of its glory. yes, scarlet logically has little reason to be upset, but emotionally it's going to be difficult for a while. it was kind of an open secret that i was going to go for the best any percent time in super metroid, and i am now faced with the prospect of trying to scream out at a deaf audience that some of this machine's pixel-perfect moves are in fact impossible on a console, or worse, that they are indeed possible, but no human is capable of performing them consistently enough to use in a run. that would mean that, as she said, i would become an eternal sideshow. no one seriously competes for a #2 time - take it from me.

i guess i'll see how i feel next week after i move.

Yoshi348

2004-07-29 11:02:20 pm

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Ready and willing.

...Stop being so smart, Nate... :)

Red Scarlet

2004-07-29 11:04:54 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I have many reasons as to why it bothers me, many known only by a handful of people; some known by no one on this forum.

And I'm not getting into that. But I'm not upset simply because my time (and Smokey's, who's played this game much more than I,) was beaten by an emu movie.

Jeramyu

2004-07-29 11:45:55 pm

Well poop. Reminds me of that SMB3 video.

Trowa

2004-07-30 03:27:04 am

Quote:

Others can stop you temporarily - only you can do it permanently. -Don Ward

I believe all records can be broken and that all limits can be surpassed. The only thing it takes is an unlimited enthusiasm. Besides, I have to say that their are no shortcuts to achieving anything worthwhile. This is quite harsh but true, if you quit here now you will just be proving that you really don't have what it takes. You've come this far, so are you really gonna quit because some lousy cretin proves to the world that he could beat it 100% in 47 minutes on an emulator?(Sorry that was harsh. If I hurt someones feelings, sorry :( .)

Other than that, try reading my sig :) .

sdwoodchuck

2004-07-30 04:00:41 am

As I said on Gamefaqs, I am always far more impressed with a legit run than a save-state ridden run. Unfortunately, there are people out there who won't know the difference, but I'll always have more respect for the skill that goes into legitimate runs far more than these.

I'm sure countless people will download the run with the shorter time, but I'm just as sure that anyone who wants to see genuine skill will much sooner download yours and Smokey's runs. I'm sorry to hear it is hitting you and others so hard, especially because I can imagine how it must feel.

Hang in there. I can guarantee you're more respected by those who matter than the people who did this new run.

Red Scarlet

2004-07-30 04:17:12 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

:55 took me 3 weeks (in which I got utterly sick of the game when I finished). There's no way in hell I'd play the game for likely years on end to equal the stuff in the vid in 1 single segment. No thanks.
Not worth my time.

sdwoodchuck

2004-07-30 04:36:01 am

I agree, it's not... However, watching your run, it's much easier to appreciate the skill that goes into playing the game.

Think of Speed Running as any Olympic game. You watch amateur athletes perform at their peak, and can appreciate the amount of effort and skill that goes into what they do. Every so often someone comes along and smashes a world record, and then is found to be using steroids or other performance enhancers. Does the world remember them as a great athlete? No. The world remembers them as a someone who couldn't win on their own.

Remember when the U.S. sent our best professional basketball players into the summer olympics as our "dream team" in direct violation of a tradition of all participating athletes being non-professional? Nobody was impressed when we won the gold medal that year, because we stacked the deck in our favor.

This is the same. Your run is the real deal--the current best that skill has to offer by way of a 100% run. These others... they don't matter. Granted, the internet community in general is a little less wary of deception than an international olympic committee, but people generally will know who was legit, and who was pulling off their unreal times with save-state filled emulator runs--the speed runner's steroid.

I agree, it's not...  However, watching your run, it's much easier to appreciate the skill that goes into playing the game.

Think of Speed Running as any Olympic game.  You watch amateur athletes perform at their peak, and can appreciate the amount of effort and skill that goes into what they do.  Every so often someone comes along and smashes a world record, and then is found to be using steroids or other performance enhancers.  Does the world remember them as a great athlete?  No.  The world remembers them as a someone who couldn't win on their own.

Remember when the U.S. sent our best professional basketball players into the summer olympics as our "dream team" in direct violation of a tradition of all participating athletes being non-professional?  Nobody was impressed when we won the gold medal that year, because we stacked the deck in our favor.

This is the same.  Your run is the real deal--the current best that skill has to offer by way of a 100% run.  These others...  they don't matter.  Granted, the internet community in general is a little less wary of deception than an international olympic committee, but people generally will know who was legit, and who was pulling off their unreal times with save-state filled emulator runs--the speed runner's steroid.

Bladegash

2004-07-30 05:38:40 am

real runs > fake runs

A scientifically proven fact. >_>

Red Scarlet

2004-08-01 03:54:55 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

No one has "what it takes" to get :46 100% legitimately. This game, like many others is now in the hands of the emu guys, never to legit players again.

The only way to compete with that :47 is to play in their ballpark.

Sure, someone can probably go and beat my :55 going that new way with a :54, but why put all that effort into 2nd place (to the majority of people).

sdwoodchuck

2004-08-01 04:04:15 pm

Because it's legit. A record without legitimate play is not a record. I agree that nobody has what it takes to get 47 minutes with 100%, and I don't believe most people will think so either. The difference is that one is a real run, the other is more of a technical demonstration.

Yoshi348

2004-08-01 05:00:21 pm

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Ready and willing.

Pure logic isn't gonna get anyone anywhere here. Stupid yet awsome emotions.

Smokey

2004-08-01 05:33:55 pm

bulleta's right. No one has 'what it takes' to even reach :50/100%. Even if something huge is discovered to get that time the emu vids will take it further. And yes, the only way to compete with that is to play the same way they do, and still, there's no fun/point in doing that. Why competing for something when it doesn't take skill to do?

I also agree with chuck in another view. Legit vids (whether they're done on the cart or emu) and re-recorded videos (using slowdown /states) are two completely different things. There's a :34 cheated vid up, and I simply don't give a damn about it anymore but at the same time I just don't feel like doing another one knowing that I'll never be able to even break that. Still though, I bet none of them can even reach a 1:00 or a :40, and if they do it still doesn't matter to me.

I am sorry for being so unsupportive, but it is just the truth. Take in mind also what it feels like to hit the stop/record button of the VCR countless of times for hours to have something good at the end to then be broken in just a short period of time by someone. It throws away the motivation to continue doing this.

bulleta's right. No one has 'what it takes' to even reach :50/100%. Even if something huge is discovered to get that time the emu vids will take it further. And yes, the only way to compete with that is to play the same way they do, and still, there's no fun/point in doing that. Why competing for something when it doesn't take skill to do?

I also agree with chuck in another view. Legit vids (whether they're done on the cart or emu) and re-recorded videos (using slowdown /states) are two completely different things. There's a :34 cheated vid up, and I simply don't give a damn about it anymore but at the same time I just don't feel like doing another one knowing that I'll never be able to even break that. Still though, I bet none of them can even reach a 1:00 or a :40, and if they do it still doesn't matter to me.

I am sorry for being so unsupportive, but it is just the truth. Take in mind also what it feels like to hit the stop/record button of the VCR countless of times for hours to have something good at the end to then be broken in just a short period of time by someone. It throws away the motivation to continue doing this.

Red Scarlet

2004-08-01 07:02:45 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Not only has one person in particular started speaking to me as I were an 8-year old (Faq God/Nightcom), the revelry in "perfection" began too, along with now those guys probably sucking up Nate's new August bandwidth with a link being found out where to get it.

Lame.

fuck competitive gaming, it simply is not worth the time with those guys ruining this game and that, left and right for the people who want to actually compete using their actual skills, not video editing ability.

The topic at their nesvideos forum is pretty amusing..one week ago Smokey and I were actually thought of good/real good/use vid for a guide, and now go has-beens.

I hate those people, for not only their selfishness but also their complete and total ignorance and insecurities (I was blamed out of nowhere for someone hacking their site).

Sorry guys, I'll use a recognizable nick like I always have if I'm going to cuss you out and argue (which is absolutely pointless with their brainwashedness).

Yoshi348

2004-08-01 07:30:10 pm

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Ready and willing.

These emulator videos are going to bring a changing of the guard in speed running, driving away those who play for fame and bringing out the players who look for a challenge. Whether there's enough people out there fitting that second descripition remains to be seen. In essence, it's a bit like a reset button to what-I-imagine-but-could-be-totally-wrong-about the early early days of SM running, when the internet wasn't nearly as hot-button as it is today, making audience was pretty small and ususally intellegent.

Possibly, it could also skew the SM running crowd to a much more anti-new-school, "It's all crap now where's the good old SNES era" gamer level, as these players would be unable to find NEW games to challenge them. That's speculation, though.

I dread the release of a GC emulator even more now; not only is it harder to explain that they're cheating and you're not when you use stuff like ghetto jumps that are invisible to the eye, but there's not even the aforementioned audience to bring it up.

These emulator videos are going to bring a changing of the guard in speed running, driving away those who play for fame and bringing out the players who look for a challenge. Whether there's enough people out there fitting that second descripition remains to be seen. In essence, it's a bit like a reset button to what-I-imagine-but-could-be-totally-wrong-about the early early days of SM running, when the internet wasn't nearly as hot-button as it is today, making audience was pretty small and ususally intellegent.

Possibly, it could also skew the SM running crowd to a much more anti-new-school, "It's all crap now where's the good old SNES era" gamer level, as these players would be unable to find NEW games to challenge them. That's speculation, though.

I dread the release of a GC emulator even more now; not only is it harder to explain that they're cheating and you're not when you use stuff like ghetto jumps that are invisible to the eye, but there's not even the aforementioned audience to bring it up.

Goofyman_S

2004-08-01 07:32:21 pm

I posted it on the GameFAQs topic:

To watch this video, one must know the following facts:

This run has been completed with the help of an emulator which allows slowdown and re-recording. That is it. Most emulated run sites do not allow cheat codes to be used. Some people may hear tool-assisted and think that they are using SRAM hacks and what-not. No, they are simply using slowdown and re-recording. Re-recording is when you can go back to any time in a video and start over, therefore making perfection possible.

This run is not to show how "1337" the gamer is. The videos are made for entertainment purposes. They aren't "cheated" as some may say. They are carefully maniuplating the game to make the outcome what they want. It's possible in the coding. If it is possible in the coding, it is possible in real life. Yes, it is. Though it may not be humanly possible, it is possible.

For one to bash a video made like this, you really have to understand the videos. The people making them are just people who are using slow-down and re-recording to make exciting videos for the entertainment of people. Sure, console runs are legit, but these show perfection in it's shining glory.

I don't like it when people constantly bash the videos and the people who made them. It's just as hard to make an emulated perfection run than it is to make a legit run. The focus point is different. With a legit, it takes skill. With emulated, it takes time and effort. It's a long haul making these videos (some have taken an upwards of 3 months) and I know that legit take just as or longer than the emulated, but thats not my point.

I have made both emulated and legit runs, and they are both very difficult depending on the game.

Anyways, it's not "all over now," this video is great, but it does not show a person sit down on the SNES and beat the game. It shows a man or woman carefully manipulate the game to do just what he/she wants it to do. This video should not be taken into the same league as the legit runs, because they are completely different. The routes, game, and focus are the same, but the way that these are accomplished are completely different.

- However, there are many emulated run people who forget this. They want to beat everything, and I am truly sorry that they are like that. They have no reason; what they are doing is not impressing anyone. I am more impressed with Bulleta's :55 100% (Which I DLed thanks to my new HD) than this :47 100%, simply because Bulleta put her time and effort into it. It's not fake. Theirs is carefully done using different variable maniupulations, but really, I'd rather watch Bulleta's than this one.

The people who began time attacks for emulated runs knew that the runs were not made legit, and don't put themselves in the same league as real players. Real players are incredible, and I highly respect everyone who has ever blown my times in Metroid games away. Though it may not always be easilly visible.

I posted it on the GameFAQs topic:

To watch this video, one must know the following facts:

This run has been completed with the help of an emulator which allows slowdown and re-recording. That is it. Most emulated run sites do not allow cheat codes to be used. Some people may hear tool-assisted and think that they are using SRAM hacks and what-not. No, they are simply using slowdown and re-recording. Re-recording is when you can go back to any time in a video and start over, therefore making perfection possible.

This run is not to show how "1337" the gamer is. The videos are made for entertainment purposes. They aren't "cheated" as some may say. They are carefully maniuplating the game to make the outcome what they want. It's possible in the coding. If it is possible in the coding, it is possible in real life. Yes, it is. Though it may not be humanly possible, it is possible.

For one to bash a video made like this, you really have to understand the videos. The people making them are just people who are using slow-down and re-recording to make exciting videos for the entertainment of people. Sure, console runs are legit, but these show perfection in it's shining glory.

I don't like it when people constantly bash the videos and the people who made them. It's just as hard to make an emulated perfection run than it is to make a legit run. The focus point is different. With a legit, it takes skill. With emulated, it takes time and effort. It's a long haul making these videos (some have taken an upwards of 3 months) and I know that legit take just as or longer than the emulated, but thats not my point.

I have made both emulated and legit runs, and they are both very difficult depending on the game.

Anyways, it's not "all over now," this video is great, but it does not show a person sit down on the SNES and beat the game. It shows a man or woman carefully manipulate the game to do just what he/she wants it to do. This video should not be taken into the same league as the legit runs, because they are completely different. The routes, game, and focus are the same, but the way that these are accomplished are completely different.

- However, there are many emulated run people who forget this. They want to beat everything, and I am truly sorry that they are like that. They have no reason; what they are doing is not impressing anyone. I am more impressed with Bulleta's :55 100% (Which I DLed thanks to my new HD) than this :47 100%, simply because Bulleta put her time and effort into it. It's not fake. Theirs is carefully done using different variable maniupulations, but really, I'd rather watch Bulleta's than this one.

The people who began time attacks for emulated runs knew that the runs were not made legit, and don't put themselves in the same league as real players. Real players are incredible, and I highly respect everyone who has ever blown my times in Metroid games away. Though it may not always be easilly visible.

Bladegash

2004-08-02 01:48:52 am

I was going to counter all those nifty points up there, but then I realized it wasn't worth my time...

Goofyman_S

2004-08-02 02:40:26 am

Heh, if you were talking to me, than you need to be quiet. I in no way lashed out an anyone, I layed out information. Theres no need for you to dehumanize my submission to this discussion. Grow up.

If you weren't: They also make valid points.

I just have to say though, it's only a game. Some people may forget that sometimes. SM is a beautiful game, with excellent graphics, music, and gameplay. The story is wonderful. When people speed run it, you must prepare for emulators to wipe out any hope for a legit run. You know it was going to happen, so it's not as big of a deal to me. Though I never held a major record (I was tied for 8th in the world though!)

Wassup Dawgs

2004-08-02 03:05:29 am

I'd like to make a point.

At first, speed running fusion was for my own personal goals. I wanted to see how fast I could do it, and just be happy with it. It happened when I came to this site and noticed, Sess's run. Now, I know it's not as extreme as a perfect SS run, but it's close in its own league. That run never dropped my hopes of speed running. It actually inspired them. If it hadn't been for that run, I probably would have never started speed running fusion.

Now the only reason I keep running is for this site only. If someone does come up with a perfect emu-fusion movie, it wouldn't bother me a bit. The people on this board know what's legitimet and what isn't. Other people out there will know also. Not all of them, but some will. To me, that's just fine enough.

I've seen a lot of websites start restricting runs to consoles only. Pretty soon, most of the people that download the emu-run will know what it is. Usually the people who know this fact but continue to believe it's #1, are n00bs (for lack of a better word).

All I can really tell you is just do what you want. If an emu-fusion run comes out that's like 0:46, and people still wonder what can be done on a console, and people really wanted to see it happen, and I knew it would be possible, I would do it. Simple as that. Even though I'm sick of fusion right now, I'll eventually want to play it again.

I'd like to make a point.

At first, speed running fusion was for my own personal goals. I wanted to see how fast I could do it, and just be happy with it. It happened when I came to this site and noticed, Sess's run. Now, I know it's not as extreme as a perfect SS run, but it's close in its own league. That run never dropped my hopes of speed running. It actually inspired them. If it hadn't been for that run, I probably would have never started speed running fusion.

Now the only reason I keep running is for this site only. If someone does come up with a perfect emu-fusion movie, it wouldn't bother me a bit. The people on this board know what's legitimet and what isn't. Other people out there will know also. Not all of them, but some will. To me, that's just fine enough.

I've seen a lot of websites start restricting runs to consoles only. Pretty soon, most of the people that download the emu-run will know what it is. Usually the people who know this fact but continue to believe it's #1, are n00bs (for lack of a better word).

All I can really tell you is just do what you want. If an emu-fusion run comes out that's like 0:46, and people still wonder what can be done on a console, and people really wanted to see it happen, and I knew it would be possible, I would do it. Simple as that. Even though I'm sick of fusion right now, I'll eventually want to play it again.

Anerdius

2004-08-02 12:39:34 pm

No offence Goofyman, but the facts you usually "lay out" are: obious facts known to everyone, you repeating someone else's sayings or just bullshit.