Questions about "keep items" route *SPOILERS*

2012-02-14 07:00:18 pm

Dood Trigger™

Hey!

I did the "keep items" trick in the beginning, awesome stuff. Having trouble making good use of those early items, though. This game has so many dead ends that I eventually just find myself taking the normal route.

It's a lot of fun to skip most of Agon Wastes, but the next step is another story. I wanted to try and skip Lower Torvus (at least until I have Light Suit), since it can be a little tiring. My plan was to enter Sanctuary right after Agon to try early Screw Attack. But I don't have a Power Bomb to access Sanctuary.

My question is: what would you do after getting Light and Dark Beam, assuming you DON'T have a Power Bomb (and don't wanna use Secret Worlds)? Is it possible to get the Emerald Translator at Torvus and then go straight to Sanctuary Fortress with my gear? I also grab the Seeker Launcher on the way, if that helps.

Also, this is bugging me for a while: why can't I get the Emerald Translator at Torvus Bog after skipping most of Agon? When I scan the hologram projector, the green Luminoth just says I must collect Gravity Boost. I remember at least doing the Dark Suit skip in the past, and I beat the rest of the game via normal route. No idea what I'm doing wrong now. Do I have to speak to the Luminoth at Great Temple or something?

Thread title:

Hey!

I did the "keep items" trick in the beginning, awesome stuff. Having trouble making good use of those early items, though. This game has so many dead ends that I eventually just find myself taking the normal route.

It's a lot of fun to skip most of Agon Wastes, but the next step is another story. I wanted to try and skip Lower Torvus (at least until I have Light Suit), since it can be a little tiring. My plan was to enter Sanctuary right after Agon to try early Screw Attack. But I don't have a Power Bomb to access Sanctuary.

My question is: what would you do after getting Light and Dark Beam, assuming you DON'T have a Power Bomb (and don't wanna use Secret Worlds)? Is it possible to get the Emerald Translator at Torvus and then go straight to Sanctuary Fortress with my gear? I also grab the Seeker Launcher on the way, if that helps.

Also, this is bugging me for a while: why can't I get the Emerald Translator at Torvus Bog after skipping most of Agon? When I scan the hologram projector, the green Luminoth just says I must collect Gravity Boost. I remember at least doing the Dark Suit skip in the past, and I beat the rest of the game via normal route. No idea what I'm doing wrong now. Do I have to speak to the Luminoth at Great Temple or something?

TheOthin

Edit history:

TheOthin: 2012-02-14 10:29:37 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-14 10:28:55 pm

TheOthin: 2012-02-14 10:28:41 pm

2012-02-14 10:28:07 pm

Have you watched Miles' full runs? Those should give you some ideas for the sorts of crazy routes you can do, although I don't recommend trying all of them at this point, him being a crazy superhuman speedrunner and all.

Not using Secret Worlds might be a bit of an issue, since that early Power Bomb is kinda important. It's not overly difficult, and you already have to use a Secret World to skip the items in the first place, so is there a reason you're opposed to it?

Getting the Emerald Translator should require scanning it twice; the second time, you have to find a second scan point that's inside the first one or something. I'm not sure how to describe it, but after the first scan, just keep looking at it and moving around a bit until you see something red again? Not as hard as I'm making it sound, and I think Miles does it at least once in most of his any% ILS runs (7% skips all of the translators), so you can get a visual representation from there.

Da Dood

2012-02-15 07:01:08 am

Dood Trigger™

To be honest, I tried that first SW for the Power Bomb and just couldn't do it. In Miles's videos (which I did watch!), his first jump goes past a tree branch, and then he uses the second jump to land on a weird platform. My first jump, for some reason, always dies before that first branch, holding L and everything.

Last night I got to Sanctuary Fortress relatively early (entered Lower Torvus and just used the Spider tracks to fight Power Bomb Guardian). Great Abyss ruined my Grapple skip, though. It's funny how much different the sequence breaking in Echoes can be from the original. In Prime 1 I have very little trouble pulling off stuff, but in the sequel almost every trick gets me. Took me 20 minutes and a game over to get one roll jump right.

I don't have any hardcore plans SBing Echoes, just want the game to be more fun and convenient since normally the first half is a drag. Having those early items is already a major plus, but having them and not doing anything extra seems like such a waste. My route is currently this:

1. Enter Agon normally
2. Go straight to Dark and Light Beam, exit (this is already awesome)
3. Seeker Launcher
4. Enter Torvus (normally OR via Agon shortcut... undecided)
5. Super Missile, Emerald
6. Lower Torvus
7. Use Spider tracks to fight PB Guardian
8. Exit via portal OR climb up Dark Lower Torvus for Grapple (very difficult without Dark Suit)
9. Sanctuary Fortress (do everything possible, maybe early SA if I can get the roll jump right)
10. Get Light Suit, wrap up

Thanks for the help.

To be honest, I tried that first SW for the Power Bomb and just couldn't do it. In Miles's videos (which I did watch!), his first jump goes past a tree branch, and then he uses the second jump to land on a weird platform. My first jump, for some reason, always dies before that first branch, holding L and everything.

Last night I got to Sanctuary Fortress relatively early (entered Lower Torvus and just used the Spider tracks to fight Power Bomb Guardian). Great Abyss ruined my Grapple skip, though. It's funny how much different the sequence breaking in Echoes can be from the original. In Prime 1 I have very little trouble pulling off stuff, but in the sequel almost every trick gets me. Took me 20 minutes and a game over to get one roll jump right.

I don't have any hardcore plans SBing Echoes, just want the game to be more fun and convenient since normally the first half is a drag. Having those early items is already a major plus, but having them and not doing anything extra seems like such a waste. My route is currently this:

1. Enter Agon normally
2. Go straight to Dark and Light Beam, exit (this is already awesome)
3. Seeker Launcher
4. Enter Torvus (normally OR via Agon shortcut... undecided)
5. Super Missile, Emerald
6. Lower Torvus
7. Use Spider tracks to fight PB Guardian
8. Exit via portal OR climb up Dark Lower Torvus for Grapple (very difficult without Dark Suit)
9. Sanctuary Fortress (do everything possible, maybe early SA if I can get the roll jump right)
10. Get Light Suit, wrap up

Thanks for the help.

TheOthin

2012-02-15 04:36:36 pm

I had that same problem. I just went directly from the ILS SW and wallcrawled all the way to the expansion; it was a bit annoying sometimes, but got easier as I got better at aether jumping.

UchihaSasuke

2012-02-15 06:40:24 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

that's pretty much the route i used since i avoided many SWs because i was too slow at them.
there's not many options if you keep it in-bounds.

Da Dood

2012-02-16 09:14:21 am

Dood Trigger™

Finished last night. Uchiha, you're right. Honestly, there were more dead ends than I anticipated. But it was fun doing things out of order and especially skipping most of Agon Wastes, which is such a slow beginning. I think I'm going with this next time:

Agon
1. Straight to Dark and Light Beam
2. Fight Amorbis and get Dark Suit (optional)
3. Exit, grab Seeker Launcher and go back
4. Enter Torvus Bog via shortcut

Torvus
1. Super Missile, Emerald
2. Lower Torvus, Gravity Boost
3. Fight Power Bomb Guardian
4. Go straight to Grapple via Dark Torvus
5. Enter Sanctuary via shortcut

Sanctuary
1. Early Screw Attack
2. Echo Visor
3. Quadraxis, transfer energy

Then Light Suit and wrap up starting from Torvus.

If only I had the skill to skip Grapple.

UchihaSasuke

2012-02-16 09:09:41 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

getting grapple isn't that bad imo since it is just 1 detour to fight GG after the PB one. i think echo skip and annihilator skip save more time and are easier (those wallcrawls are easier than the GA dash anyway)

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2012-02-19 05:55:22 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2012-02-19 05:54:39 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2012-02-19 05:54:10 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2012-02-19 05:53:45 pm

2012-02-19 05:52:55 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

i have a crazy route in my ss speedrun
yesterday i got 1:55 it was a horrible run... (cant believe that it is my best time now, in spots i wanted to restart it lol)

there just 3 SW's in it
IS,PB early and spider skip (a huge one it is combined with the echo skip) but for me SW arent hard at all anymore just practicing it makes it easy.
but yeah theres tons of sequence breaking in the run...

Da Dood

2012-02-20 07:37:06 am

Dood Trigger™

How do I enter the SW that skips Echo and Quadraxis? That would be really great, but thinking about the route, it looks pretty difficult without the Dark Suit.

UchihaSasuke

2012-02-22 02:52:38 am

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

you use a 3BSJ aligned with the red lines in the floor like in the pic shown.

to get the instant unmorph, walk back and touch the wall and then press forward in the stick and X to advance and morph at about the same time (press forward a bit earlier). to know you're in the best spot, you should advance a bit and the camera should get behind you. the correct distance is just where the dark stmosphere stops hurting you in the active safe zone in ball form. when you're in that position, lay a bomb and then lay 3 bombs in quick sucession when the first one explodes and makes the ball rise. when you are close to the top of the jump, press X followed by B to do the unmorph and jump and then use L to control yourself, B for the space jump to aim for the hole in the ceiling and, if you have the correct height, you should land OoB and navigate the following rooms up to the energy controller like miles does. alternatively, you can go and fight quad by triggering the fight from one room away by touching the trigger or just ceiling warp into the room that leads to quad and save.

http://en.twitch.tv/uchihasda/b/307857365 this video shows what i do around 36:50 (i used the 3BSJ and wallcrawled to hive temple access and then ceiling warped to save. for the other route, you can check out miles' speed run videos)

you use a 3BSJ aligned with the red lines in the floor like in the pic shown.

to get the instant unmorph, walk back and touch the wall and then press forward in the stick and X to advance and morph at about the same time (press forward a bit earlier). to know you're in the best spot, you should advance a bit and the camera should get behind you. the correct distance is just where the dark stmosphere stops hurting you in the active safe zone in ball form. when you're in that position, lay a bomb and then lay 3 bombs in quick sucession when the first one explodes and makes the ball rise. when you are close to the top of the jump, press X followed by B to do the unmorph and jump and then use L to control yourself, B for the space jump to aim for the hole in the ceiling and, if you have the correct height, you should land OoB and navigate the following rooms up to the energy controller like miles does. alternatively, you can go and fight quad by triggering the fight from one room away by touching the trigger or just ceiling warp into the room that leads to quad and save.

http://en.twitch.tv/uchihasda/b/307857365 this video shows what i do around 36:50 (i used the 3BSJ and wallcrawled to hive temple access and then ceiling warped to save. for the other route, you can check out miles' speed run videos)

attachment:

mp2bsj.png

Da Dood

2012-02-22 06:28:30 am

Dood Trigger™

That's incredibly helpful. Even made me wanna replay the game. Will try that in the next couple of days, thanks a lot!

ryu

Edit history:

ryu: 2012-05-14 09:20:19 am

2012-05-14 09:20:10 am

which one's the early pb you were talking about in here? i want to try that whenever i come around to do my keep itmes run

Da Dood

2012-05-16 02:36:57 pm

Dood Trigger™

Early PB is the one at Temple Grounds in the tunnel (on the way to the communication area). You need a Secret World for that one. I'm terrible at it. :\

ryu

2012-05-16 03:33:53 pm

which secret world should be entered for the optimal route? the othin's post sounds like he used an alternative route that seems to be easier but more time consuming.

Aruki

2012-05-16 09:13:24 pm

Temple Assembly Site

ryu

2012-05-17 04:10:33 am

alright, thanks you both

Quasar

2012-05-17 12:54:24 pm

It *is* viable to go to Torvus after Light Beam, by the way. I tried this out as part of my first test game using ILS just to see what was made possible. You need to backtrack out to Temple Grounds and pick up Seekers first; then you can use the Agon->Torvus elevator. Since you don't have Supers yet, the Emerald translator gate is not present in the Torvus Temple lower level and this means you can reach the area where you fight the Pirate Commandoes. Be careful and don't fight them yet or you'll screw yourself out of Emerald - instead, boost up to the upper level without triggering the battle and take the high road around. You'll end up at the light version of the path to Boosty, where you can open the door and reach the "first" part of Torvus. From here you can get to the upper level of Torvus Temple for Supers and Emerald.

Metroid177

2012-05-17 06:30:58 pm

@Quasar
u don't need seekers for the agon-torvus elevator......
just secret world around it.......
no need to backtrack to Temple Assembly Site.....

Quasar

Edit history:

Quasar: 2012-05-21 12:36:48 pm

2012-05-21 12:35:48 pm

Yes, I am aware that's possible. However I personally am not that good at secret worlds and usually spend most of my time in-bounds. The only secret worlds I've used so far are for ILS, early Power Bombs, and skipping Echo Visor :)

Da Dood

2012-05-21 01:29:48 pm

Dood Trigger™

I might start over the file and try to get the Power Bomb directly after the ILS. Then I'll save and always start with that file and be super cheap!

Da Dood

2012-06-08 11:20:59 am

Dood Trigger™

Guys, I got my game literally paused right now at the Temple Assembly Site, after jumping past the branch. I'm on the platform behind the tree that leads to the secret world.

However, I managed to do this once before and Samus got stuck when I jumped "inside" the tree. Not even bomb jumping got her out of there. What exactly should I do now to get that early PB?

cjsnow1

Edit history:

cjsnow1: 2012-06-08 03:08:15 pm

2012-06-08 02:57:49 pm

Mmmmmm... Honey Roasted Metroids

Quote from Da Dood:

Guys, I got my game literally paused right now at the Temple Assembly Site, after jumping past the branch. I'm on the platform behind the tree that leads to the secret world.

However, I managed to do this once before and Samus got stuck when I jumped "inside" the tree. Not even bomb jumping got her out of there. What exactly should I do now to get that early PB?

I find that it's easier to ghetto jump off of the tree branch in Temple Transport B, loading TAS, and going from there. I'm having trouble getting above the DC door. Jumping around in SW's is fucking hard....

EDIT: Is it absolutely necessary to get above the Expansion?

Da Dood

Edit history:

Da Dood: 2012-06-08 03:16:43 pm

2012-06-08 03:15:17 pm

Dood Trigger™

I wanted this one 'cause it's the first expansion available. So I could just backtrack to the first save point and always start my runs with those items. :\

Right now I'm better at the tree branch jump thing, but terrible at making my way up to the SW. The best I can do is fall down, then walk near the door and let Samus float. But even when she's way above the door, she just falls right through it. I don't understand the SW jumps, sometimes she can, sometimes she can't.

Thanks, anyway.

Da Dood

2012-06-08 04:47:16 pm

Dood Trigger™

Is it possible to still get the bomb if I'm RIGHT underneath it? Oh man, so close. I'm not turning off until I get this thing.

Da Dood

2012-06-08 05:11:44 pm

Dood Trigger™

Holy crap, I got it. But how do I exit the secret world? I'm terrified of dropping into the abyss.