Question for Hack Players about Skills Lacked

Edit history:

Lawrence Reyome: 2007-11-19 12:37:28 am

2007-11-19 12:06:43 am

Metroid Exp: Exploration - Great, Skills - Decent

I noticed a very very disturbing trend......

It seems that for every hack that comes out, theres someone that has got to make a harder hack, and the creator believes (most of the time) that if he has mad skillz, then so does everyone else and so applies those skills as a requirement to beat said hack.

So, my question is this: What skills do you find that you are lacking in to beat hacks?

For example, here is what I have NOT mastered down to exact precision:

1. Mockball and Speed Mockball, to a point that I can do it without even thinking about it (Gravy: Various Places, Impossible, Redesign: Maridia Super Missles in first large hallway left of Green Brinstar split)
2. Super Short Charge, Ultra Short Charge (Gravy for Etecoon PBs, Early Legacy Botwoon)
3. Holding Charge for Long Periods (Reasonably good on Fusion) (Redesign: Crateria E Tank and Super Missles, Maridia E Tank at top of long vertical shaft, Maridia Reserve Tank, Maridia Vertical Shaft PBs)
4. Mid Air Horizontal Sparking (T-Metroid: X-Ray, Gravy: Returning from Kraid's Hideout area, Dependance (Timing a Vertical Spark): Eternal Hall-High Command Elevator Access)
5. Alternate Double Bomb Jumping (Redesign: Several expansions)
6. Green Gate Glitch (Legacy: Maridia back door, used when getting Early Power Bombs)

There are several more skill areas that I lack in, but those will be remembered in due time.

Thread title:

I noticed a very very disturbing trend......

It seems that for every hack that comes out, theres someone that has got to make a harder hack, and the creator believes (most of the time) that if he has mad skillz, then so does everyone else and so applies those skills as a requirement to beat said hack.

[b][u][size=12pt]So, my question is this: What skills do you find that you are lacking in to beat hacks?[/size][/u][/b]

For example, here is what I have NOT mastered down to exact precision:

1. Mockball and Speed Mockball, to a point that I can do it without even thinking about it (Gravy: Various Places, Impossible, Redesign: Maridia Super Missles in first large hallway left of Green Brinstar split)
2. Super Short Charge, Ultra Short Charge (Gravy for Etecoon PBs, Early Legacy Botwoon)
3. Holding Charge for Long Periods (Reasonably good on Fusion) (Redesign: Crateria E Tank and Super Missles, Maridia E Tank at top of long vertical shaft, Maridia Reserve Tank, Maridia Vertical Shaft PBs)
4. Mid Air Horizontal Sparking (T-Metroid: X-Ray, Gravy: Returning from Kraid's Hideout area, Dependance (Timing a Vertical Spark): Eternal Hall-High Command Elevator Access)
5. Alternate Double Bomb Jumping (Redesign: Several expansions)
6. Green Gate Glitch (Legacy: Maridia back door, used when getting Early Power Bombs)

There are several more skill areas that I lack in, but those will be remembered in due time.

Electrometer Prime

2007-11-19 12:16:24 am

1. Anything involving Mockball
2. Triple, Diagonal, and Infinite Bomb Jump(Wow I suck...)
3. Midair Horizontal Spark

4. Master Spark*Shot*

kwinse

Edit history:

kwinse: 2007-11-19 08:00:04 am

2007-11-19 07:56:48 am

Midair Horizontal Shinesparks are easy (okay, easier) once you realize that you have a bit of leeway and don't have to immediately press dash and left/right after pressing up (I think that's what you press, I can never remember without actually doing it and I don't feel like getting Screw Attack early in Redesign right now). >_>

I haven't mastered moch/speedball, but I have mastered Redesign's flavor of bomb jumping, including IBJ (Drew's method is so very easy in theory, and in practice, well, just practice :P). Also, I suck at shinespark recharges, but that's what savestates are for. >_>

EDIT: I should say, I've never played anything to the point where I have to do any form of short charge.

Fano7

2007-11-19 08:19:06 am

Every Bit Counts

It just takes practice. I can do all those tricks. If you need any help, just ask, and I'll be sure to help. And to answer your question, spike dogeing, no suit norfair, and no suit Marida (all from Impossible).
For the midair spark, follow these instructions:
1. Get a charge.
2. Do a spin jump in the direction you want to spark.
3. Press up at the deseired hight.
4. Press right or left and A.
For the mockball, run, jump (and don't let go of it until your mockballing), press down, and as you are hitting the ground (or a secound before) hit down and press the direction your going (right or left). This is assuming you have a celing over head. It's a bit more complicated when you do without hitting a celing.

Lance Uppercut

2007-11-19 08:32:37 am

- Adding to Fano´s mockball: If you have to jump very low before doing mockball, you should just tap jump and when you are landing from that jump, press the jump button again. You have to press the jump button while going into the ball mode just like Fano said. Well actually for example in Impossible, I just hit the spikes and use the blinking time to hold the jump all the time rather than try to jump a little more than just Samus´ height.

- Redesign bomb jumping is very different, I never bothered to figure out what would be the best way to get consistency. I really don´t care whether I can do it or not.

- Green gate glitch really is a lot about pointing diagonally up and shooting away, there is no guarantee to get it right with the first shot. The basics are still there though. I would say I know half of it.

- Midair shinesparking really is not that hard, have any of you ever tried to press down to cease the spin jump and then jump and direction button? That is the way I do it and even though I cannot get it 100% of the time, it is much easier that way.

- I have hard time getting super short charges constantly, maybe I am too slow to react on the "front foot method", but I can do it in many ways. My favorite is to do the stutter walk in the beginning and hold dash all the time. Lack of this skill does not matter in most hacks though, because there is time to try again and again to get it right. Even if you should get it right at once, we always have save states to cover it.

- Adding to Fano´s mockball: If you have to jump very low before doing mockball, you should just tap jump and when you are landing from that jump, press the jump button again. You have to press the jump button while going into the ball mode just like Fano said. Well actually for example in Impossible, I just hit the spikes and use the blinking time to hold the jump all the time rather than try to jump a little more than just Samus´ height.

- Redesign bomb jumping is very different, I never bothered to figure out what would be the best way to get consistency. I really don´t care whether I can do it or not.

- Green gate glitch really is a lot about pointing diagonally up and shooting away, there is no guarantee to get it right with the first shot. The basics are still there though. I would say I know half of it.

- Midair shinesparking really is not that hard, have any of you ever tried to press down to cease the spin jump and then jump and direction button? That is the way I do it and even though I cannot get it 100% of the time, it is much easier that way.

- I have hard time getting super short charges constantly, maybe I am too slow to react on the "front foot method", but I can do it in many ways. My favorite is to do the stutter walk in the beginning and hold dash all the time. Lack of this skill does not matter in most hacks though, because there is time to try again and again to get it right. Even if you should get it right at once, we always have save states to cover it.

Kriole

2007-11-19 12:01:53 pm

Meri Kurisumasu! ^_^

The main thing I lack in beating a hack is:

-The ability to not get stuck (e.g. every possible hack existing)
-The ability to resist watching playthroughs so I won't get stuck
-The ability to resist asking others for directions

I have mastered all the techniques, which unfortunately often leads to sequence breaks, and 'should-I-really-be-here?'-moments, but I can say that I am a master of getting stuck too.

Edward_Tohr

2007-11-19 01:05:26 pm

Stuffs. Yar.

Quote from Kriole:

The main thing I lack in beating a hack is: ... -The ability to resist asking others for directions

I kind of have that problem, but I'm too busy re-reading the entire topic to see if I can find anything that can help me that someone else usually asks my question first. :P

Back on topic, I don't play the "OMFG TIHS HAK IS FR TEH MASTARZ ONLY!!!1!!111!1" hacks, so I tend to not need to practice very many skills... Just mid-air morphing. (Which is about as difficult as walljumping) :P

Cardweaver

2007-11-20 02:29:22 am

I for the life of me cannot glitch past any gate. I've tried, even with 50 supers sometimes, but it just won't happen. I also have no HBJ skillz whatsoever. Other than that, before I made/tested Gravy, I couldn't shortcharge very well, and I use Lance's method now.

When in doubt, press buttons.

Also, Reyome, sorry about my hack being what seems like half of your list.

Gaius_4

2007-11-20 12:34:44 pm

Things I can't do (or) have never done:

Short Shine Spark Charge
Horizontal Bomb Jumps
Green Gate Glitch
Under Water Single Wall Jumping
X-Ray climb (which I have no interest in doing anyway)
(SMR) Infinite Ball Jumping

What I've never even tried that I'm sure I'll never be able to do anyway:

IBJing, then firing above me while in Mid-Air, then continuing the IBJ.

What I wish I could be better at:

Wall Jumping and going into that hole after you defeat Bomb Torizo (on the first try).

That's all I can think of ATM.

Lawrence Reyome

2007-11-20 12:48:51 pm

Metroid Exp: Exploration - Great, Skills - Decent

Quote from Cardweaver:

Also, Reyome, sorry about my hack being what seems like half of your list.

You dont have to apologize for the fact that I just plain ****ing suck nowadays at Metroid type games.

Electrometer Prime

2007-11-22 04:33:55 pm

IM actually getting this mockball down now. I have found that the best place to practice it is that long Brinstar hallway that leads to the Wrecked Ship in Legacy.

Cardweaver

2007-11-22 07:46:08 pm

Also, for practicing speedball, the hallway with the speedbooster blocks and etecoons in Norfair (connecting the elevator to bubble norfair) in the original SM.

Edward_Tohr

2007-11-22 07:54:34 pm

Stuffs. Yar.

Erm... Aren't etecoons those walljumping things in Brinstar? :P

Lance Uppercut

2007-11-22 07:56:20 pm

Sorry to nitpick about nothing but aren´t those jumping enemies Beetoms or something? Etecoons are those friendly creatures who teach you how to walljump? I said this only because I honestly was confused by Cardweaver´s post for a while :D

Oh I had something relevant too: I have practiced speedball in Brinstar Dachora room, both up and down. Landing site is also interesting place because you have to watch out for some obstacles and you have some variable terrain too, but maybe it is better to start the practice from flat surface.

For "advanced" mockball I suggest the after-grapple beam-ledge, where you jump a huge jump to the right, try to make mockball with that jump. One place where accuracy is needed is the ice beam gate hater, where you have to have enough speed in your mockball.

Electrometer Prime

2007-11-22 10:18:59 pm

Wow, this IS fun

attachment:

Metroid Legacy_00001.png

Cardweaver

2007-11-22 10:36:39 pm

Quote from Lance Uppercut:

Sorry to nitpick about nothing but aren´t those jumping enemies Beetoms or something? Etecoons are those friendly creatures who teach you how to walljump? I said this only because I honestly was confused by Cardweaver´s post for a while :D

Yep. they sure are. I was thinking about the etecoons and where I could safely move them when I posted.

DMantra

(user is banned)

2007-11-23 07:14:41 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Totally off topic, but I made a song called Dachora's Shinespark. I didn't use samples from SM, I just felt the glithy sounds I used sounded like a breeding ground for Dachoras.

Carpenter

2007-11-29 09:10:27 am

Metroid Hunter

the only thing I can't afford is the damn diagonal double bomb jump in SM:I

All the other stunts are very easy compared to this. Savestat using and slow motion could maybe help at the practice.
In general, you will get better in Metroid if you had played some hacks.

DMantra

(user is banned)

2007-11-30 06:34:39 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

I can speedball pretty easily, but I guess a skill I lack is the speedball part in noobsmashers. yeah, I think I've been smashed.. hard.

ICheatAtGolf

2007-12-10 12:44:53 pm

Quote from Lawrence Reyome:

I noticed a very very disturbing trend......

It seems that for every hack that comes out, theres someone that has got to make a harder hack, and the creator believes (most of the time) that if he has mad skillz, then so does everyone else and so applies those skills as a requirement to beat said hack.

So, my question is this: What skills do you find that you are lacking in to beat hacks?

For example, here is what I have NOT mastered down to exact precision:

1. Mockball and Speed Mockball, to a point that I can do it without even thinking about it (Gravy: Various Places, Impossible, Redesign: Maridia Super Missles in first large hallway left of Green Brinstar split)
2. Super Short Charge, Ultra Short Charge (Gravy for Etecoon PBs, Early Legacy Botwoon)
3. Holding Charge for Long Periods (Reasonably good on Fusion) (Redesign: Crateria E Tank and Super Missles, Maridia E Tank at top of long vertical shaft, Maridia Reserve Tank, Maridia Vertical Shaft PBs)
4. Mid Air Horizontal Sparking (T-Metroid: X-Ray, Gravy: Returning from Kraid's Hideout area, Dependance (Timing a Vertical Spark): Eternal Hall-High Command Elevator Access)
5. Alternate Double Bomb Jumping (Redesign: Several expansions)
6. Green Gate Glitch (Legacy: Maridia back door, used when getting Early Power Bombs)

There are several more skill areas that I lack in, but those will be remembered in due time.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but several of the situations you mentioned involved sequence breaking. Sequence breaking is not required to beat the game. This is kind of a contradiction in that case, no?

[quote="Lawrence Reyome"]
I noticed a very very disturbing trend......

It seems that for every hack that comes out, theres someone that has got to make a harder hack, and the creator believes (most of the time) that if he has mad skillz, then so does everyone else and so applies those skills as a requirement to beat said hack.

[b][u][size=12pt]So, my question is this: What skills do you find that you are lacking in to beat hacks?[/size][/u][/b]

For example, here is what I have NOT mastered down to exact precision:

1. Mockball and Speed Mockball, to a point that I can do it without even thinking about it (Gravy: Various Places, Impossible, Redesign: Maridia Super Missles in first large hallway left of Green Brinstar split)
2. Super Short Charge, Ultra Short Charge (Gravy for Etecoon PBs, Early Legacy Botwoon)
3. Holding Charge for Long Periods (Reasonably good on Fusion) (Redesign: Crateria E Tank and Super Missles, Maridia E Tank at top of long vertical shaft, Maridia Reserve Tank, Maridia Vertical Shaft PBs)
4. Mid Air Horizontal Sparking (T-Metroid: X-Ray, Gravy: Returning from Kraid's Hideout area, Dependance (Timing a Vertical Spark): Eternal Hall-High Command Elevator Access)
5. Alternate Double Bomb Jumping (Redesign: Several expansions)
6. Green Gate Glitch (Legacy: Maridia back door, used when getting Early Power Bombs)

There are several more skill areas that I lack in, but those will be remembered in due time.
[/quote]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but several of the situations you mentioned involved sequence breaking.  Sequence breaking is not required to beat the game.  This is kind of a contradiction in that case, no?

Gaius_4

Edit history:

Gaius_4: 2007-12-10 03:40:42 pm

2007-12-10 03:33:58 pm

Quote from ICheatAtGolf:

Correct me if i'm wrong, but several of the situations you mentioned involved sequence breaking. Sequence breaking is not required to beat the game. This is kind of a contradiction in that case, no?

I'm not meaning to speak for him but this is what I think... :-?

What he means is - is when in some hacks you are required to perform these 'tricks' to progress.

Yes. Some obstacles can be circumvented (such as the Green Gates). That is about sequence breaking (unless the hack designer is sadistic and the 'trick' is the only way to progress). So maybe it's not so much that he's contradicting himself, but rather, not being specific enough. :P (i.e. covering all the bases).

But I get what he's saying. What tricks do you stink at? laugh new

ICheatAtGolf

2007-12-13 07:43:13 am

Hm...what tricks do I stink at...

Well, since i've played Super Metroid to death, there's not really any tricks I can't perform within ~2 tries. This excludes frame advance tricks. The only things I would say I have any kind of trouble with is the stutter walk and precision jumps after coming out of doors (mockballing into that little hole after the ice beam)

Gaius, if you jump off a wall, and hold the jump button...hit down, you'll notice you only need to hit down ONCE to morph. This is the trick to walljumping into the hole after bomb torizo. Remember this only applies if you're still holding the jump button after you walljump.

I should really make a hack that forces you to be good at ledge grabbing Evil or Very Mad

that would be funny, I wonder how many people here (besides me) can do it in realtime?

Gaius_4

2007-12-13 09:45:35 am

Quote from ICheatAtGolf:

Gaius, if you jump off a wall, and hold the jump button...hit down, you'll notice you only need to hit down ONCE to morph. This is the trick to walljumping into the hole after bomb torizo. Remember this only applies if you're still holding the jump button after you walljump.

Thank you for the tip. 8-) That does work better.

Cpadolf

2007-12-13 10:01:11 am

Almost happy

Quote from ICheatAtGolf:

I should really make a hack that forces you to be good at ledge grabbing Evil or Very Mad that would be funny, I wonder how many people here (besides me) can do it in realtime?

You mean the light often console used version of aiming up or down with L,R or the TASing one with aiming down with the down arrow and then moving forward. The former is really easy, the latter I can use to some extent in normal jumps (but nothing worth doing ot save time) but if it is a really high jump that leaves you with little speed at the end (or forces you to use it to get on the platform) I can do it pretty much all the time.

Kriole

2007-12-13 10:28:31 am

Meri Kurisumasu! ^_^

I can ledge grab 99 times out of 100 without highjump boots. With highjump boots I make it about 50% of the time. I just press down and left/right at the same time, at a very precise height related to the ledge.