Quadraxis No Dark Suit No Energy Tanks

2015-06-03 09:31:17 pm

I think the community needs more snark

2015-06-04 12:00:19 am

Very nice. Very impressive. Can you get this far without beam expansions?

Its been a long time since people have shown interest in pushing non-SW and non-Item Loss Skip (or IS in general) runs and challenges. So this topic is refreshing.

How did you get through Dark Lower Torvus (particularly Crypt Tunnel / Sacrificial Chamber Tunnel) or climb Dark Torvus Temple after getting the Dark Visor? That is where the no Dark Suit / Energy Tanks got stuck in the past.

UchihaSasuke

Edit history:

UchihaSasuke: 2015-06-05 07:38:43 pm

2015-06-05 07:38:29 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

Other M is the best Metroid game by far and it's a shame people can't see how great it is.

how's that for an opinion?

tomatobob

2015-06-05 07:40:53 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

A Bad Opinion, but you are welcome to it.

DJGrenola

2015-06-06 09:56:02 am

I miss the days when people were actually obliged to fight boost guardian with minimal tankage. because it really isn't easy.

kirbymastah

2015-06-08 11:13:34 am

Quote from DJGrenola:

I miss the days when people were actually obliged to fight boost guardian with minimal tankage. because it really isn't easy.

Oh geez don't remind me of that :(

MR.X

2015-06-09 03:16:19 pm

I would mainly like to answer SkippyJr here, he made the most interesting post in this topic so far.

First things first: I actually DID use ILS, sorry. The Boost Guardian with no Darksuit no Energy Tanks thing was on Wii version's easier Normal difficulty only, where enemies have 5/6 health compared to Gamecube version's Normal difficulty. Now to answer some of your stuff:

I usually got Power Bombs by defeating Power Bomb Guardian early after ILS in order to bypass Crypt Tunnel, taking the path through the Power Bomb Door rooms instead, Untertemple Access i believe it is called. However, i tested Crypt Tunnel out once i had some free time in the past days, just for you!

Turns out, you can make it past Crypt Tunnel, and it's really hard, took about 20 attempts. In Crypt, do the Ghetto Jump onto the Laser statue thing, and suck up a Golden Energy Refill. I did this in a too complicated way at first, that's why i died so often. Then roll into the Light Crystal at the bottom of Undertemple Shaft. If you do it perfectly, you can fight the 2 Hunter Ing with 5 energy units, one in front of you, one behind you. Those guys killed me a few times. Quickly cancel their tentacle attacks by shooting them with light beam. Then quickly power up the Light Crystal before the first Hunter Ing uses the ramming attack to kill you after you cancelled the Second Hunter Ing's attack. Made a video of this:

However, after defeating Grapple Guardian i was stuck. Funnily enough, i cannot make it back through Crypt Tunnel, and i had not gotten Power Bombs yet to escape via Undertemple Access. When you try to escape Undertemple Shaft, the Crypt Tunnel door takes some time to load, and i can't do any Golden Energy Refill tricks. Had to delete the save file:

Still, this is not a problem, Grapple Beam can be skipped without Secret Worlds, so you never have to go through this area anyway right? Therefore i was a little surprised that you asked about these rooms.

Regarding Dark Torvus Temple: This was the main reason why i started a new save file just to answer your questions. I remembered that if you just try to climb the Temple without doing anything "special", you die, but i did not remember what i did exactly. Floaty Jump would be an obvious solution, but i think back then i did it without that. So i tested it again.

In the end, it's really easy. Make sure to kill Chykka with less than 50 Energy Units, so that he drops a Golden Energy Refill rather than a Blue Energy Refill. Suck the Refill towards the platforms.
I get the Golden Energy once i stand on the second platform. I think you could get it even later, but it's too risky for me, and getting it on the second one is enough to make it. Basically, you have to climb
the platforms really quickly, jumping to the far right side of each one of them and jumping as soon as possible, basically like DJGrenola climbed the room in his 1:38 any% run, segment 9.
Again, i recorded this:

I was always interested in doing this, and back in 2010 after defeating Boost Guardian on Wii, i thought the No Dark Suit No Energy Tanks challenge run might be possible to do on Trilogy version, without Secret Worlds. However, since the Ghetto Jump onto the Laser thingy in Crypt does not work there anymore, i couldn't even get TO the Grapple Guardian. And in Trilogy version, you absolutely do need Grapple Beam. It was the least spectacular end to the No Dark Suit No Energy Tanks attempt that i could have imagined. I doubted that Quadraxis would be possible on Gamecube, the lower health on Trilogy version really would have helped, but in the end, i nailed it. I never cared about Light Beam Ammo. I only wanted No Dark Suit No Energy Tanks at the same time. It could be possible with just 50 Light Ammo. Use Screw Attack on the second form. The first form would suck tho, you'd probably have to use Super Missiles. This makes Refill luck even worse. And by having a full Missile Stock all the time, you have the advantage of getting a 100% Golden Energy Refill if you destroy one of Quadraxis' feet. Again, this would also be harder if you have to use Missiles.

I hope that's a good answer for your questions.

Minor stuff:

Quote from arkarian:

feel free to make another thread for your video if you want though, mr. x

Thanks, but as you can see, i did not think it's necassary... 2 threads about this would suck. Thanks for always defending me btw!

Quote from Parax:

Also, Skull64 was copy pasting a post MASTER-88 made on SDA in like 2008 or something. That's why everyone ignored him.

That explains the awesome grammar in that post!

Tomatobob, BabySheegoth: Thanks for approving of the manliness!

Quote from DJGrenola:

I miss the days when people were actually obliged to fight boost guardian with minimal tankage. because it really isn't easy.

Agreed. Loved the Boosty fights in both the 1:43 any% and your 1:38 any% speedruns! I guess people still need to do this in 100% runs today?

I would mainly like to answer SkippyJr here, he made the most interesting post in this topic so far.

First things first: I actually DID use ILS, sorry. The Boost Guardian with no Darksuit no Energy Tanks thing was on Wii version's easier Normal difficulty only, where enemies have 5/6 health compared to Gamecube version's Normal difficulty. Now to answer some of your stuff:

I usually got Power Bombs by defeating Power Bomb Guardian early after ILS in order to bypass Crypt Tunnel, taking the path through the Power Bomb Door rooms instead, Untertemple Access i believe it is called. However, i tested Crypt Tunnel out once i had some free time in the past days, just for you!

Turns out, you can make it past Crypt Tunnel, and it's really hard, took about 20 attempts. In Crypt, do the Ghetto Jump onto the Laser statue thing, and suck up a Golden Energy Refill. I did this in a too complicated way at first, that's why i died so often. Then roll into the Light Crystal at the bottom of Undertemple Shaft. If you do it perfectly, you can fight the 2 Hunter Ing with 5 energy units, one in front of you, one behind you. Those guys killed me a few times. Quickly cancel their tentacle attacks by shooting them with light beam. Then quickly power up the Light Crystal before the first Hunter Ing uses the ramming attack to kill you after you cancelled the Second Hunter Ing's attack. Made a video of this:

https://youtu.be/KOA_o83SUSY

However, after defeating Grapple Guardian i was stuck. Funnily enough, i cannot make it back through Crypt Tunnel, and i had not gotten Power Bombs yet to escape via Undertemple Access. When you try to escape Undertemple Shaft, the Crypt Tunnel door takes some time to load, and i can't do any Golden Energy Refill tricks. Had to delete the save file:

https://youtu.be/QyexIXMg_Ss

Still, this is not a problem, Grapple Beam can be skipped without Secret Worlds, so you never have to go through this area anyway right? Therefore i was a little surprised that you asked about these rooms.

Regarding Dark Torvus Temple: This was the main reason why i started a new save file just to answer your questions. I remembered that if you just try to climb the Temple without doing anything "special", you die, but i did not remember what i did exactly. Floaty Jump would be an obvious solution, but i think back then i did it without that. So i tested it again.

In the end, it's really easy. Make sure to kill Chykka with less than 50 Energy Units, so that he drops a Golden Energy Refill rather than a Blue Energy Refill. Suck the Refill towards the platforms.
I get the Golden Energy once i stand on the second platform. I think you could get it even later, but it's too risky for me, and getting it on the second one is enough to make it. Basically, you have to climb
the platforms really quickly, jumping to the far right side of each one of them and jumping as soon as possible, basically like DJGrenola climbed the room in his 1:38 any% run, segment 9.
Again, i recorded this:

https://youtu.be/3yv_msSJAxk

I was always interested in doing this, and back in 2010 after defeating Boost Guardian on Wii, i thought the No Dark Suit No Energy Tanks challenge run might be possible to do on Trilogy version, without Secret Worlds. However, since the Ghetto Jump onto the Laser thingy in Crypt does not work there anymore, i couldn't even get TO the Grapple Guardian. And in Trilogy version, you absolutely do need Grapple Beam. It was the least spectacular end to the No Dark Suit No Energy Tanks attempt that i could have imagined. I doubted that Quadraxis would be possible on Gamecube, the lower health on Trilogy version really would have helped, but in the end, i nailed it. I never cared about Light Beam Ammo. I only wanted No Dark Suit No Energy Tanks at the same time. It could be possible with just 50 Light Ammo. Use Screw Attack on the second form. The first form would suck tho, you'd probably have to use Super Missiles. This makes Refill luck even worse. And by having a full Missile Stock all the time, you have the advantage of getting a 100% Golden Energy Refill if you destroy one of Quadraxis' feet. Again, this would also be harder if you have to use Missiles.

I hope that's a good answer for your questions.

Minor stuff:

[quote="arkarian"]feel free to make another thread for your video if you want though, mr. x[/quote]

Thanks, but as you can see, i did not think it's necassary... 2 threads about this would suck. Thanks for always defending me btw!

[quote="Parax"]Also, Skull64 was copy pasting a post MASTER-88 made on SDA in like 2008 or something. That's why everyone ignored him.[/quote]

That explains the awesome grammar in that post!

Tomatobob, BabySheegoth: Thanks for approving of the manliness!

[quote="DJGrenola"]I miss the days when people were actually obliged to fight boost guardian with minimal tankage. because it really isn't easy.[/quote]

Agreed. Loved the Boosty fights in both the 1:43 any% and your 1:38 any% speedruns! I guess people still need to do this in 100% runs today?

MaskedKirby

2015-06-09 03:52:49 pm

Arbitrary MP2 categories only !

Quote from MR.X:

Agreed. Loved the Boosty fights in both the 1:43 any% and your 1:38 any% speedruns! I guess people still need to do this in 100% runs today?

In 100% we have 3 E-Tanks + Varia for Boost I think, but we get an early Power Bomb Container in Great Bridge from OoB.

DJGrenola

2015-06-09 05:41:35 pm

silent echo did a couple of properly ballsy things in that 1:43 which are often forgotten -- two tank (I think? been a long time) boost guardian no dark suit, and of course the first ever grand abyss clearance in a speed run -- using a roll jump, of all things.

MR.X

2015-06-09 06:04:35 pm

Yeah, only minutes after my post i remembered that people would probably get Early Power Bombs for Boosty in 100% nowadays... i assume the third energy tank is the one in the room before Torvus Temple?

And yes, 2 Energy Tanks No Dark Suit for Boosty in the 1:43. The only reason he survived the battle was that an Energy Refill spawned directly inside him after the death cutscene. He survives with like 5 energy units and instantly regains control at 55 energy, and you couldn't even hear the sound that an acquired Energy Refill makes. Since we're talking about Boosty in Speedruns, can i ask you a question, DJ? In your 1:38, you wrote in your comments that Boosty has to drop enough Energy Refills so that you can survive the trip back to the Save Station. Assuming that Boosty didn't drop enough Energy Refills, why wouldn't you have boosted into the pillars in his room for guaranteed Golden Energy Refills? Would that have been too slow?

DJGrenola

2015-06-09 06:17:30 pm

I don't think it occurred to me. (boosting into the pillars). But you're right, it would have cost time.

I actually remember silent echo getting that 50 energy seemingly from nowhere and spending some time examining the video to convince myself that it wasn't spliced, but I think I came to the same conclusion eventually (that it was legit).

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2015-06-09 06:38:34 pm

kirbymastah: 2015-06-09 06:37:44 pm

kirbymastah: 2015-06-09 06:37:21 pm

2015-06-09 06:33:04 pm

Dang nice video of dark torvus temple; for some reason, I never thought of dragging the ultra energy partway up near the beginning of the climb.

As for 100%, as MaskedKirby said, the current 100% route gets a power bomb tank in Great Bridge, after wallcrawling to Torvus Temple from Agon. This was a relatively recent route change; before that, the route got an early power bomb tank in Dynamo Chamber, in Temple Grounds, after leaving Agon. So boost guardian is basically cheesed with a PB in every category now XD

Also, not to discredit silent echo, but you have to remember that his old run was segmented :P Still, it was really impressive to watch, I only managed 3 e-tanks back then :(

In a segmented run, you'd want to not waste time boosting into pillars since it costs ~1-2 seconds each, so you'd want to just rely on the raw drops that boost guardian gives.

Also, according to miles, each pillar in the boost guardian room can apparently give double drops? i never really noticed but (shrugs)

Dang nice video of dark torvus temple; for some reason, I never thought of dragging the ultra energy partway up near the beginning of the climb.

As for 100%, as MaskedKirby said, the current 100% route gets a power bomb tank in Great Bridge, after wallcrawling to Torvus Temple from Agon. This was a relatively recent route change; before that, the route got an early power bomb tank in Dynamo Chamber, in Temple Grounds, after leaving Agon. So boost guardian is basically cheesed with a PB in every category now XD

Also, not to discredit silent echo, but you have to remember that his old run was segmented :P Still, it was really impressive to watch, I only managed 3 e-tanks back then :(

In a segmented run, you'd want to not waste time boosting into pillars since it costs ~1-2 seconds each, so you'd want to just rely on the raw drops that boost guardian gives.

Also, according to miles, each pillar in the boost guardian room can apparently give double drops? i never really noticed but (shrugs)

DJGrenola

2015-06-09 06:45:27 pm

yeah, I realise segmented runs are essentially dead now and to be honest that's the way it should be, but he was doing that stuff for the first time so there was an act of faith involved in starting the run without any guarantee of finishing it. IIRC in his single-seg he grabbed four tanks for boost guardian and I never found that easy either, but I wasn't the best player ever.

MR.X

Edit history:

MR.X: 2015-06-09 07:07:05 pm

2015-06-09 07:06:03 pm

Thanks, kirbymastah. I mistook MaskedKirby for you there until you posted by the way haha.

The fact that the run is segmented does not make that any less awesome. I think somebody said segmented runs take no skill, but that is just wrong. I know that we are in modern times, where there's seemingly much more single segment runs than segmented runs. But segmented runs are cool because they contain almost no mistakes. And they definitely are tough. It can be extremely frustrating to be stuck at a segment for a week without making progress.

And yes DJ, in the 1:57 SS from silent(((echo))), he had 4 Energy Tanks when fighting Boost Guardian. He deliberately bumbed into his Puddle Form in order to keep him from "unmorphing" and get a one round kill, while taking heavy damage.

Silent(((echo))) was one hell of an awesome player, he did amazing stuff for a time like 2005. He was probably by far the best back then. As DJ said, he did many new things, Boost Guardian with 2 Energy Tanks is only one example. I think he mentioned then somewhere that he was scared about attempting Quadraxis in the 1:43 speedrun with 3 Tanks No Dark Suit, but he said that it turned out to be really easy. He did other stuff later on too, such as Hard SS 2:24 (which was probably his messiest run, but it was something new) and there was a single segment 2:34 101% which was only available on samus.co.uk for some reason. I really liked his stuff. I think he made a topic where he was going to work on a 100% run, but never finished it. Well, and then he disappeared at some point. Which sucks. But i enjoyed pretty much every single one of his runs.

Thanks, kirbymastah. I mistook MaskedKirby for you there until you posted by the way haha.

The fact that the run is segmented does not make that any less awesome. I think somebody said segmented runs take no skill, but that is just wrong. I know that we are in modern times, where there's seemingly much more single segment runs than segmented runs. But segmented runs are cool because they contain almost no mistakes. And they definitely are tough. It can be extremely frustrating to be stuck at a segment for a week without making progress.

And yes DJ, in the 1:57 SS from silent(((echo))), he had 4 Energy Tanks when fighting Boost Guardian. He deliberately bumbed into his Puddle Form in order to keep him from "unmorphing" and get a one round kill, while taking heavy damage.

Silent(((echo))) was one hell of an awesome player, he did amazing stuff for a time like 2005. He was probably by far the best back then. As DJ said, he did many new things, Boost Guardian with 2 Energy Tanks is only one example. I think he mentioned then somewhere that he was scared about attempting Quadraxis in the 1:43 speedrun with 3 Tanks No Dark Suit, but he said that it turned out to be really easy. He did other stuff later on too, such as Hard SS 2:24 (which was probably his messiest run, but it was something new) and there was a single segment 2:34 101% which was only available on samus.co.uk for some reason. I really liked his  stuff. I think he made a topic where he was going to work on a 100% run, but never finished it. Well, and then he disappeared at some point. Which sucks. But i enjoyed pretty much every single one of his runs.

rekameohs

2015-06-09 07:09:58 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but didn't Silent Echo commit account suicide down the line at some point? That seems to have jogged my memory.

The Echoes 1:43 was great though. That's one of speed runs that got me interested in the community.

DJGrenola

2015-06-09 07:14:09 pm

that's right, he spammed up the forum and I had to clean most of it up. nobody knows exactly why but I think he had some disagreement with radix. (look here and scroll down to the reviews at the bottom.)

and he wasn't the last echoes runner to lose his patience with radix, haha.

SkippyJr

2015-06-09 11:14:12 pm

You are awesome MR.X! That was quite a bit of effort to do all that just to answer a question. I hope you had fun. Sorry to hear that you had to delete a stuck game's save file and loose all of that progress.

Before MBI and ILS, people wondered if Dark Suit could be skipped in a low% game. Crypt Tunnel was mentioned because that's as far as kip could go before grapple skip was done. He didn't have boost as you did. Still consider yourself the first to beat that challenge. So Dark Torvus Temple really is "easy" - I recall sucking health refills being tried, maybe it was without the golden energy refill.

Is 2 Energy Tanks the lowest anyone has ever beaten Boost Guardian with? Could a TAS do it with none?

Quote from MR.X:

I hope that's a good answer for your questions.

That long and detailed explanation, with videos, is far more than ever could have been expected.

If there was a way to hack savestates, I'd like to see what people could do against Emperor Ing and Dark Samus 4 without Dark or Light Suit and minimal energy tanks. Randomizer?

You are awesome MR.X!  That was quite a bit of effort to do all that just to answer a question.  I hope you had fun.  Sorry to hear that you had to delete a stuck game's save file and loose all of that progress.

Before MBI and ILS, people wondered if Dark Suit could be skipped in a low% game.  Crypt Tunnel was mentioned because that's as far as kip could go before grapple skip was done.  He didn't have boost as you did.  Still consider yourself the first to beat that challenge.  So Dark Torvus Temple really is "easy" - I recall sucking health refills being tried, maybe it was without the golden energy refill.

Is 2 Energy Tanks the lowest anyone has ever beaten Boost Guardian with?  Could a TAS do it with none?

[quote="MR.X"]I hope that's a good answer for your questions.[/quote]That long and detailed explanation, with videos, is far more than ever could have been expected.

If there was a way to hack savestates, I'd like to see what people could do against Emperor Ing and Dark Samus 4 without Dark or Light Suit and minimal energy tanks.  Randomizer?

Baby Sheegoth

2015-06-10 03:04:52 pm

You could easily reach Emperor Ing without dark suit by just using Action Replay to get infinite health then save in sky temple...unless we're using MBI.

Jack879

2015-06-10 03:44:50 pm

Uchiha did indeed finish a Randomizer with no suits but I think he had quite a few tanks (Many more than 4).

MR.X

Edit history:

MR.X: 2015-06-10 05:38:54 pm

2015-06-10 05:31:44 pm

Quote from SkippyJr:

You are awesome MR.X!

thanks a lot *blushes*

Quote from SkippyJr:

Is 2 Energy Tanks the lowest anyone has ever beaten Boost Guardian with? Could a TAS do it with none?

I've beaten him with 1 Energy Tank No Dark Suit on the Gamecube version under Low% conditions with 50 Beam Ammo. I did this back in 2010 to finish a 22% run that skipped Dark Suit but got an Energy Tank,
in order to skip Dark Suit but still do a Low% without Secret Worlds (no Grapple skip). Basically a much harder version of a Dark Suit, but no Energy Tanks 22% run.

I am not the greatest when it comes to fighting Boosty, i could for example never do what silent(((echo))) or DJGrenola did to him in their any% runs, but Bartendorsparky came close to beating Boosty with No Dark Suit No Energy Tanks i think. A TAS can definitely do it. I am sure it can be humanly done too, but it'd be really hard, it already took me 80 attempts on the slightly easier Wii Version.

Quote from Baby Sheegoth:

You could easily reach Emperor Ing without dark suit by just using Action Replay to get infinite health then save in sky temple...unless we're using MBI.

I don't see how this would allow you to collect the Sky Temple Keys without Light Suit... you can't dive into the water without it, infinite energy wouldn't be of any help or am i wrong?

Regarding silent(((echo))), i remembered his spamming, but he had the "explanation" that his account got hacked IIRC, which i believed back then... i think after these incidents, he went back to making normal posts, then suddenly disappeared i think...

[quote="SkippyJr"]You are awesome MR.X![/quote]

thanks a lot *blushes*

[quote="SkippyJr"] Is 2 Energy Tanks the lowest anyone has ever beaten Boost Guardian with?  Could a TAS do it with none? [/quote]

I've beaten him with 1 Energy Tank No Dark Suit on the Gamecube version under Low% conditions with 50 Beam Ammo. I did this back in 2010 to finish a 22% run that skipped Dark Suit but got an Energy Tank,
in order to skip Dark Suit but still do a Low% without Secret Worlds (no Grapple skip). Basically a much harder version of a Dark Suit, but no Energy Tanks 22% run.

I am not the greatest when it comes to fighting Boosty, i could for example never do what silent(((echo))) or DJGrenola did to him in their any% runs, but Bartendorsparky came close to beating Boosty with No Dark Suit No Energy Tanks i think. A TAS can definitely do it. I am sure it can be humanly done too, but it'd be really hard, it already took me 80 attempts on the slightly easier Wii Version.

[quote="Baby Sheegoth"]You could easily reach Emperor Ing without dark suit by just using Action Replay to get infinite health then save in sky temple...unless we're using MBI.[/quote]

I don't see how this would allow you to collect the Sky Temple Keys without Light Suit... you can't dive into the water without it, infinite energy wouldn't be of any help or am i wrong?

Regarding silent(((echo))), i remembered his spamming, but he had the "explanation" that his account got hacked IIRC, which i believed back then... i think after these incidents, he went back to making normal posts, then suddenly disappeared i think...

rekameohs

2015-06-10 07:15:38 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Yeah I think the only way you'd be getting to Sky Temple without Light Suit would be through a randomizer where the keys are moved out of the water. I don't think that IS or SW's can get to all (any?) of them, but what do I know?

Baby Sheegoth

2015-06-11 01:18:50 am

I figured since we were using action replay the sky keys would be included in that >.>

UchihaSasuke

Edit history:

UchihaSasuke: 2015-06-18 02:27:39 am

2015-06-18 02:27:22 am

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

i do have that save file from the randomizer without suits saved at the Sky Temple but looking for it would take a while.

kirbymastah

2015-06-18 10:40:40 am

Quote from rekameohs:

Yeah I think the only way you'd be getting to Sky Temple without Light Suit would be through a randomizer where the keys are moved out of the water. I don't think that IS or SW's can get to all (any?) of them, but what do I know?

Keys in water are basically impossible to get without light suit. There's an invisible floor below the surface of dark water that disappears once you get light suit. In the event that you have tons of health and can clip below that floor and get the key, you'd still have to break out of the floor from the water, which IIRC is impossible at all relevant locations at the moment.

IS could've been an option if you didn't require having dark visor turned on to even do anything to an ing cache

Fun fact, though, if light suit ended up in dark water in a randomizer, you're basically screwed out of it. The floor doesn't disappear until after you RELOAD the room, after getting light suit... yeahhhhhhhhhh