Pre-tourian tank hunting!

2005-04-05 11:33:48 am

ok, im doing a no sequence breaking run, and im ready to enter Tourian.

i have 205 missiles, 14 supers, all powerups, and nine energy tanks. i havent entered tourian yet, and i wanna know, what's the max amount of expansions samus can have before entering tourian?

also, a list of the not so obvious ones would be nice :D

Thancks

Thread title:

tomatobob

2005-04-05 07:46:17 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

I think you have all of them, but did you get the missile tanks in the right side Ridley? Those are probably easiest to miss.

gleepdiddly

2005-04-05 07:49:14 pm

I've had 215 missiles, 14 supers, 9 energy tanks, and all powerups at that point.

Short Circuit

2005-04-05 08:14:02 pm

got the ones one the right and left of ridley, and i can recall having about 215 missiles too...

are there any tricky ones in kraid?

transience

2005-04-05 08:16:12 pm

twenty eight fifty

you can get all but one missile in kraid. I think you can get all but two items in Norfair. you can get everything in Ridley. you can get everything in Brinstar, too. and you can't get anything in Tourian. go through your map (I trust you've beaten it before) and see how many items you have in each location. that'll tell you if you've got it or not.

JaggerG

2005-04-06 01:11:53 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

woah woah woah hold up a sec...how can you go through and get everything before Tourian without a single sequence break? I thought this game was built so that it was impossible to stay in sequence! Either that or there was no real sequence to begin with....

gleepdiddly

2005-04-06 07:11:16 am

There is a sequence, but almost no one on Metroid2002 follows it.

Short Circuit

2005-04-06 12:18:30 pm

The sequence ia as follows:

morph ball

>access to tunnels to

Long beam

>shoot away blocks to

Missile

>which activates

brinstar worm fight for charge beam (this can be gotten at any time, no proper sequence)

>open red door to

Bomb

>bomb away blocks to norfair-crateria to reach

Plasma beam

>destroy chozo blocks to reach

power grip

> which allows acces to green norfair shaft to

ice beam

>uh...

Space jump

>break chozo blocks to

kraid fight for speed booster

>break norfair boost blocks to

Hi jump

>allows access to

varia suit

>navigate heated areas to

Wave beam

>shoot double layer of blocks to get speed boost to

imago larva fight for super missile

>which opens green doors to

gravity suit

>which activates

fight with ridley

>after fight, break chozo locks to exit ridley, and gain access to

screw attack

>kraid and ridley dead, tourian accessable which leads to

metroids

> then

Motherbrain

>escape sequence, which allows access to chozodia and fully powered suit

>allows you to reach

power bomb

>which allows you to reach

Mecha ridley

>escape sequence, and end

wow, long post!

you all better appreciate it! Evil or Very Mad

The sequence ia as follows:

morph ball

>access to tunnels to

Long beam

>shoot away blocks to

Missile

>which activates

brinstar worm fight for charge beam (this can be gotten at any time, no proper sequence)

>open red door to

Bomb

>bomb away blocks to norfair-crateria to reach

Plasma beam

>destroy chozo blocks to reach

power grip

> which allows acces to green norfair shaft to

ice beam

>uh...

Space jump

>break chozo blocks to

kraid fight for speed booster

>break norfair boost blocks to

Hi jump

>allows access to

varia suit

>navigate heated areas to

Wave beam

>shoot double layer of blocks to get speed boost to

imago larva fight for super missile

>which opens green doors to

gravity suit

>which activates

fight with ridley

>after fight, break chozo locks to exit ridley, and gain access to

screw attack

>kraid and ridley dead, tourian accessable which leads to

metroids

> then

Motherbrain

>escape sequence, which allows access to chozodia and fully powered suit

>allows you to reach

power bomb

>which allows you to reach

Mecha ridley

>escape sequence, and end

wow, long post!

you all better appreciate it! :evil:

gleepdiddly

2005-04-06 12:28:16 pm

I appreciate it, but I think I posted a bigger post then that. go to the boardwalk, then look for Gamefaqs or Metroid 2002? My first post is very long.

Izo

2005-04-06 01:52:05 pm

soaking through

Um, I'm pretty sure Jag was just taking the piss, seeing as the sequence in ZM is very vague due to the programmers' terrible mistake of trying to make it to be sequence broken. If that makes any sense. I'm not sure English has the potential to convey my full meaning here.

gleepdiddly

2005-04-06 03:42:53 pm

Really, I swear they were TRYING to get it to be sequence broken. I mean, Bomb jumps, Single wall jumps, and lots of places to use them, I think it's almost impossible to go the normal route if your'e an expert like me.
Fixed.

Izo

2005-04-06 03:54:30 pm

soaking through

Quote from gleepdiddly:

I think it's almost impossible to SB if your'e an expert like me.

Eh? Something there must be wrong... but what?

I'm guessing it's the "expert" part. >.>

radu242

2005-04-06 03:54:52 pm

Quote from gleepdiddly:

Really, I swear they were TRYING to get it to be sequence broken. I mean, Bomb jumps, Single wall jumps, and lots of places to use them, <b>I think it's almost impossible to SB if your'e an expert like me.</b>

Bold: So you mean, it's almost impossible to Sequence Break or what? (that's what I read)
EDIT: SIMU-POST!!!

gleepdiddly

2005-04-06 04:24:31 pm

Look at my post. I changed it.

Ekarderif

2005-04-06 04:46:04 pm

I don't get how you can claim anything is the "normal route". I can easily argue that the developers intended normal to skip Speed Boost + Wave Beam because of those missile blocks.

Chanoire

2005-04-06 08:23:12 pm

I think it's a safe assumption that the "normal" route would be to get all the items, per the directions of the Chozo statues. I think the only ones you might miss if you were following those directions are the Screw Attack and the Power Bombs, and it seems unlikely to me that anyone playing for the first time will find the missile block leading out of Ridley after the broken Chozo statue rather than getting the screw attack (at that stage of the game, I mean, as opposed to coming through later with power bombs). There are alternate routes, but they're not all that obvious.

Clearly alternate routes were intended and provided for, to the irritation of runners who would rather vary their routes through breaking the game than by choices the developers gave them, but the presence of the Chozo hints indicates that there's an "expected" route at least for initial playthroughs. Sure, the developers intended for people to be able to skip certain things, but that doesn't negate the presence of a base route from which to deviate.

I think it's a safe assumption that the "normal" route would be to get all the items, per the directions of the Chozo statues.  I think the only ones you might miss if you were following those directions are the Screw Attack and the Power Bombs, and it seems unlikely to me that anyone playing for the first time will find the missile block leading out of Ridley after the broken Chozo statue rather than getting the screw attack (at that stage of the game, I mean, as opposed to coming through later with power bombs).  There are alternate routes, but they're not all that obvious.

Clearly alternate routes were intended and provided for, to the irritation of runners who would rather vary their routes through breaking the game than by choices the developers gave them, but the presence of the Chozo hints indicates that there's an "expected" route at least for initial playthroughs.  Sure, the developers intended for people to be able to skip certain things, but that doesn't negate the presence of a base route from which to deviate.

Ekarderif

2005-04-06 08:55:27 pm

Base != normal

Chanoire

2005-04-06 09:21:58 pm

Normal is highly individual in this case, then, and not really the best word for the concept defined in the first post as "no sequence breaking". But I think the sense in which it's been used in this thread is equivalent in meaning. If you had a different meaning in mind, then please define.

Jigglysaint

2005-04-06 10:36:44 pm

The "Normal" route is the one that's most logical to the most amount of players. For example, if your path is blocked by speed booster blocks, a normal person would percieve that they need the correct item to pass. An expert would look for ways past it. A normal person would not rely heavily on bomb jumping or wall jmping, thus certain places would seem out of reach. A normal person would follow the Chozo statue's direction rather than try to deviate from the path. And finally, normal people don't enter areas that sap their strength just for being there, because they figure that if somthing is like that, then it's a barrier that they need an item to pass.

An expert will do their darndest to do whatever it takes to get past an obsticle without the intended equipment. The was designed to sequence break, otherwise there would be no 15% bonus. Most players arn't that intuitive, or well versed with metroid to find it the first time.

Mr. Aran

2005-04-06 10:52:43 pm

everybody knows it's true

a n00b will go "oh noes!! What do I doooo????" and take 10 hours to figure it out.

Ekarderif

2005-04-07 11:16:17 am

But calling such item skips as sequence breaking is just stupid. It's the same as skipping the blue/red ring in Zelda and claiming it's sequence breaking.

radu242

2005-04-07 04:39:25 pm

So SBing is not intended by the developers, right?

transience

2005-04-07 05:00:50 pm

twenty eight fifty

you can argue how to define the term "sequence breaking", but there's obviously an intended route. otherwise, there wouldn't be chozo statues telling you where to go.

either way, skipping the ziplines (both ways) isn't "intended". you could call that a "true sequence break"; something not built into the game, if you like. there are other parts of zm that weren't intended to be done (climbing the crumble room, leaving the long beam room the quick way, some other stuff). they aren't really sequence breaks, more like "route breaks".

why is a game that's so easily broken like super metroid preferred? I sequence broke the wave beam my first time in SM - that's hardly difficult to do. you won't find most of the stuff in zm your first time through, and most you won't unless you're actively searching for alternate ways to go. you might get varia, but you're probably not finding the missile blocks to get to Ridley, you know?

JaggerG

2005-04-09 12:18:54 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Quote from Izo:

Um, I'm pretty sure Jag was just taking the piss, seeing as the sequence in ZM is very vague due to the programmers' terrible mistake of trying to make it to be sequence broken. If that makes any sense. I'm not sure English has the potential to convey my full meaning here.

* JaggerG zips up and washes hands

wtf? Try spanish or something maybe?

Anyways, I think the developers wanted to appeal more toward sequence breakers by making it so easy to find different ways around different obstacles, and ended up failing by making them too easy. The sequence is very general. I think it was something like get maru mari, fight worm, get long beam, get bombs, activate the ziplines, kill acid worm, kill Kraid and get speed boost, get power grip and ice beam, kill Ridley, kill MB, get fully powered suit, kill Iron Ted, escape.

tomatobob

2005-04-09 12:56:53 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from JaggerG:

The sequence is very general. I think it was something like get maru mari, fight worm, get long beam, get bombs, activate the ziplines, kill acid worm, kill Kraid and get speed boost, get power grip and ice beam, kill Ridley, kill MB, get fully powered suit, kill Iron Ted, escape.

As far as I can tell, it's Maru Mari, Long Beam, Missiles, Charge Beam, Bombs, Ice Beam, Unknown 1, Power Grip, Unknown 2, Speed Booster, High Jump, Super Missiles, Unknown 3, Screw Attack, Varia, then Power Bombs.

Not that it really matters since it's unlikely that everyone followed it the first time through the game.