Post your time, percent, and difficulty here!

ZX497

2013-05-09 05:06:32 pm

Quote from Thomaz:

Fuck this game, fuck this game for real.

Quote from Thomaz:

Anyway, new PB

Gratz, man.

ZX497

Edit history:

ZX497: 2013-05-09 05:51:46 pm

2013-05-09 05:51:19 pm

Also, Spidey.

42:13, NO. The only reason you didn't lose ~5 seconds here, is because the top pirate gave you a good pattern: had he spawned on the left-side platform, you would've gotten caught and wasted a bunch of time due to the locked gate. You really wanna make a neutral jump after coming out of the crawl-space, and shoot diagonally top-left at the apex of the jump, just in case the pirate is there.

Or, if you really wanna push your luck and do this strat, at least freeze the top pirate after he jumps over you while you're hanging.

spidey-widey

2013-05-10 08:23:52 pm

Hey, cool, I just now got around to watching your video in which you showcase that and other tricks. I was aware of the riskiness of my method (I'm more willing to take risks in runs that aren't races), but I didn't know there was a way to eliminate the risk without losing time.

Dragonfangs

2013-05-13 12:36:00 pm

56:29 100% yay. Made a few moderately sized mistakes but I'm still pretty happy with it. 3 round Acid Worm(~7 seconds), missed the shinespark to the first Super (~10 seconds), missed the shinespark BACK after the second Super (~10 seconds), screwed up both east puzzle rooms in Ridley (~20 seconds RTA at least).

Late Long, Late Brinstar, Late Kraid, Bottom Norfair.

kirbymastah

2013-05-13 01:28:03 pm

Might as well say late everything :P

Anyways, I didn't finish my comments on spidey's 100% youtube run, I finished them up until stealth. I didn't read mobiusman/dfang's comments though, so there may be a few repeats

05:56 - Come on, break 40 walljumps. You can do better (jk)

07:57 - Since you're using early brinstar cleanup and come in with many missiles, it might be worth leaving this for cleanup? Would save a tiny bit of time

08:40 - don't need to kill this fly. not sure if you know that already :)

09:20 - I normally squeeze in 4 missiles when acid worm starts, then 16-17 next round, then finish it; i'm pretty sure it's fastest to shoot as many missiles as possible earlier

15:04 - Dang, i didn't think of morphing after the missile tank to dodge the first turtle

15:28 - For the two flying enemies here, jagger said that he shoots the charge beam diagonally down to kill them; if they give a drop, you can sometimes get it while running off the ledge. Of course you don't NEED the drops, but i don't see a reason not to do that since you can probably save frames on the refill...?

16:07 - is there a reason you jump on both pillars around the enemy pipe, rather than just jump over the first one? AKA do an extra jump

21:44 - VERY tiny nitpicky thing, but for the first jump, i always break out of my spin by pressing up rather than shoot since you don't stop in the air.

23:44 - there HAS to be a consistent way to run through this room while destroying the vines without stopping so you can get another speed boost :( I've done it, but idk how to make it consistent...

24:49 - YAY you use my shinespark strat to kill the owl! too bad it didn't give you a super drop T_T who cares, you got a random super drop at 25:00 anyways

29:20 - you can shoot the door just before power-gripping, so you don't have to unmorph then morph again to open it

29:55 - Ah, you don't use what zx found, to pseudo-screw attack the orb while getting the unknown item? It doesn't really save time, but it is easier than having to time your shot IMO

30:40 - I always bombjump vertically up from the center of the fly pipe. the fly never spawns after the first one, so there's no worry. I don't think diagonally bomb jumping is worth it, but eh, if you normally get it very consistently...

33:22 - Hm maybe you can make the jump to the 2nd-to-last block with a jump extend, without power gripping? I never tried =x

40:14 - didn't reach 0 missiles at ship. reset.

Might as well say late everything :P

Anyways, I didn't finish my comments on spidey's 100% youtube run, I finished them up until stealth. I didn't read mobiusman/dfang's comments though, so there may be a few repeats

05:56 - Come on, break 40 walljumps. You can do better (jk)

07:57 - Since you're using early brinstar cleanup and come in with many missiles, it might be worth leaving this for cleanup? Would save a tiny bit of time

08:40 - don't need to kill this fly. not sure if you know that already :)

09:20 - I normally squeeze in 4 missiles when acid worm starts, then 16-17 next round, then finish it; i'm pretty sure it's fastest to shoot as many missiles as possible earlier

15:04 - Dang, i didn't think of morphing after the missile tank to dodge the first turtle

15:28 - For the two flying enemies here, jagger said that he shoots the charge beam diagonally down to kill them; if they give a drop, you can sometimes get it while running off the ledge. Of course you don't NEED the drops, but i don't see a reason not to do that since you can probably save frames on the refill...?

16:07 - is there a reason you jump on both pillars around the enemy pipe, rather than just jump over the first one? AKA do an extra jump

21:44 - VERY tiny nitpicky thing, but for the first jump, i always break out of my spin by pressing up rather than shoot since you don't stop in the air.

23:44 - there HAS to be a consistent way to run through this room while destroying the vines without stopping so you can get another speed boost :( I've done it, but idk how to make it consistent...

24:49 - YAY you use my shinespark strat to kill the owl! too bad it didn't give you a super drop T_T who cares, you got a random super drop at 25:00 anyways

29:20 - you can shoot the door just before power-gripping, so you don't have to unmorph then morph again to open it

29:55 - Ah, you don't use what zx found, to pseudo-screw attack the orb while getting the unknown item? It doesn't really save time, but it is easier than having to time your shot IMO

30:40 - I always bombjump vertically up from the center of the fly pipe. the fly never spawns after the first one, so there's no worry. I don't think diagonally bomb jumping is worth it, but eh, if you normally get it very consistently...

33:22 - Hm maybe you can make the jump to the 2nd-to-last block with a jump extend, without power gripping? I never tried =x

40:14 - didn't reach 0 missiles at ship. reset.

Mobiusman

2013-05-13 04:03:35 pm

Quote from kirbymastah:

23:44 - there HAS to be a consistent way to run through this room while destroying the vines without stopping so you can get another speed boost :( I've done it, but idk how to make it consistent...

I think you have to stop for a split second before shooting the two vines on the worm corpse (ew).

Quote from kirbymastah:

33:22 - Hm maybe you can make the jump to the 2nd-to-last block with a jump extend, without power gripping? I never tried =x

pretty sure it's possible to not power grip anything in that room.

spidey-widey

2013-05-20 08:27:55 pm

Quote from kirbymastah:

07:57 - Since you're using early brinstar cleanup and come in with many missiles, it might be worth leaving this for cleanup? Would save a tiny bit of time

Nice suggestion, I've started doing this and it does seem like it should be a little faster. I'm not sure, though, if I should stay morphed upon entering the room with the missile tank. With the hi-jump, I can enter the room, grab the expansion and exit without ever unmorphing, but the morph ball jumps look a lot slower to me than unmorphed jumps. :/

Quote from kirbymastah:

08:40 - don't need to kill this fly. not sure if you know that already :)

Several others have informed me of this. I apparently knew this back when I did my 100% hard run. >_>

Quote from kirbymastah:

09:20 - I normally squeeze in 4 missiles when acid worm starts, then 16-17 next round, then finish it; i'm pretty sure it's fastest to shoot as many missiles as possible earlier

I tried this out with very little success. Getting in 4 missiles initially goes well enough. However, in the last round when I need to get in 9-10 missiles, I usually find myself wasting about half of the missiles I shoot by hitting a non-vulnerable part of the worm. I have no idea why this would be, since I don't think my position under the worm is any different than when I shoot 2, 12, and 16 on the three rounds.

Also, I noticed that the worm would sometimes raise the acid level after the second round if I had only gotten in 20 missiles by that point, whereas it never seemed to do this if I'd gotten in 21. This wastes substantial time.

Can you think of anything I might be doing wrong?

Quote from kirbymastah:

15:28 - For the two flying enemies here, jagger said that he shoots the charge beam diagonally down to kill them; if they give a drop, you can sometimes get it while running off the ledge. Of course you don't NEED the drops, but i don't see a reason not to do that since you can probably save frames on the refill...?

I've started doing this also. It can save some frames by getting refills, but it also saves some frames due to running forward instead of jumping.

Quote from kirbymastah:

16:07 - is there a reason you jump on both pillars around the enemy pipe, rather than just jump over the first one? AKA do an extra jump

I think I did this to see if it looked faster. The extra jump looks to me like it actually reduces your total air time, but I still don't know if either way is faster than the other.

Quote from kirbymastah:

21:44 - VERY tiny nitpicky thing, but for the first jump, i always break out of my spin by pressing up rather than shoot since you don't stop in the air.

Hmm, I can try it out, although I likely won't change what I do here since cancelling spin jumps by shooting usually feels much more natural to me.

Quote from kirbymastah:

23:44 - there HAS to be a consistent way to run through this room while destroying the vines without stopping so you can get another speed boost :( I've done it, but idk how to make it consistent...

I think this was actually the first time that this strat didn't work out for me. I was pretty confused when that purple vine got in my way.

Quote from kirbymastah:

29:20 - you can shoot the door just before power-gripping, so you don't have to unmorph then morph again to open it

I'm not very good at getting off a horizontal shot before gripping my way into that tunnel, so instead I've started laying a bomb right after I enter the room to open the door.

Quote from kirbymastah:

29:55 - Ah, you don't use what zx found, to pseudo-screw attack the orb while getting the unknown item? It doesn't really save time, but it is easier than having to time your shot IMO

At your suggestion, I've started doing this also; the only trick is remembering to charge my beam after shooting the door to that room. It might save a little time, since you'll typically be higher by the time you have to scroll through the text.

Quote from kirbymastah:

30:40 - I always bombjump vertically up from the center of the fly pipe. the fly never spawns after the first one, so there's no worry. I don't think diagonally bomb jumping is worth it, but eh, if you normally get it very consistently...

Nah, I think I'll switch to doing it vertically. I might also try doing a jump bomb jump here; that allows you to land on the platform after two rounds of bomb jumps instead of just gripping the ledge. (If you do it really well, you can instead grab the ledge after only one round of bomb jumps.)

Quote from Mobiusman:

Quote from kirbymastah:

33:22 - Hm maybe you can make the jump to the 2nd-to-last block with a jump extend, without power gripping? I never tried =x

pretty sure it's possible to not power grip anything in that room.

I tried this a bit, and I was able to avoid gripping all ledges except for the block that's directly below another platform. I'm really inconsistent at this, though.

Also, in the heated room between hi-jump and screw attack, you can bomb jump diagonally instead of vertically by starting your bomb jump somewhere in the black circle in the following picture. If you do it pretty precisely, you can land on the ledge after two rounds of bombs; otherwise, you'll need to grab the ledge. I don't know how many of you already knew this, but I learned this just recently.

[quote="kirbymastah"]07:57 - Since you're using early brinstar cleanup and come in with many missiles, it might be worth leaving this for cleanup? Would save a tiny bit of time[/quote]
Nice suggestion, I've started doing this and it does seem like it should be a little faster. I'm not sure, though, if I should stay morphed upon entering the room with the missile tank. With the hi-jump, I can enter the room, grab the expansion and exit without ever unmorphing, but the morph ball jumps look a lot slower to me than unmorphed jumps. :/

[quote="kirbymastah"]08:40 - don't need to kill this fly. not sure if you know that already :)[/quote]
Several others have informed me of this. I apparently knew this back when I did my 100% hard run. >_>

[quote="kirbymastah"]09:20 - I normally squeeze in 4 missiles when acid worm starts, then 16-17 next round, then finish it; i'm pretty sure it's fastest to shoot as many missiles as possible earlier[/quote]
I tried this out with very little success. Getting in 4 missiles initially goes well enough. However, in the last round when I need to get in 9-10 missiles, I usually find myself wasting about half of the missiles I shoot by hitting a non-vulnerable part of the worm. I have no idea why this would be, since I don't think my position under the worm is any different than when I shoot 2, 12, and 16 on the three rounds.

Also, I noticed that the worm would sometimes raise the acid level after the second round if I had only gotten in 20 missiles by that point, whereas it never seemed to do this if I'd gotten in 21. This wastes substantial time.

Can you think of anything I might be doing wrong?

[quote="kirbymastah"]15:28 - For the two flying enemies here, jagger said that he shoots the charge beam diagonally down to kill them; if they give a drop, you can sometimes get it while running off the ledge. Of course you don't NEED the drops, but i don't see a reason not to do that since you can probably save frames on the refill...?[/quote]
I've started doing this also. It can save some frames by getting refills, but it also saves some frames due to running forward instead of jumping.

[quote="kirbymastah"]16:07 - is there a reason you jump on both pillars around the enemy pipe, rather than just jump over the first one? AKA do an extra jump[/quote]
I think I did this to see if it looked faster. The extra jump looks to me like it actually reduces your total air time, but I still don't know if either way is faster than the other.

[quote="kirbymastah"]21:44 - VERY tiny nitpicky thing, but for the first jump, i always break out of my spin by pressing up rather than shoot since you don't stop in the air.[/quote]
Hmm, I can try it out, although I likely won't change what I do here since cancelling spin jumps by shooting usually feels much more natural to me.

[quote="kirbymastah"]23:44 - there HAS to be a consistent way to run through this room while destroying the vines without stopping so you can get another speed boost :( I've done it, but idk how to make it consistent...[/quote]
I think this was actually the first time that this strat didn't work out for me. I was pretty confused when that purple vine got in my way.

[quote="kirbymastah"]29:20 - you can shoot the door just before power-gripping, so you don't have to unmorph then morph again to open it[/quote]
I'm not very good at getting off a horizontal shot before gripping my way into that tunnel, so instead I've started laying a bomb right after I enter the room to open the door.

[quote="kirbymastah"]29:55 - Ah, you don't use what zx found, to pseudo-screw attack the orb while getting the unknown item? It doesn't really save time, but it is easier than having to time your shot IMO[/quote]
At your suggestion, I've started doing this also; the only trick is remembering to charge my beam after shooting the door to that room. It might save a little time, since you'll typically be higher by the time you have to scroll through the text.

[quote="kirbymastah"]30:40 - I always bombjump vertically up from the center of the fly pipe. the fly never spawns after the first one, so there's no worry. I don't think diagonally bomb jumping is worth it, but eh, if you normally get it very consistently...[/quote]
Nah, I think I'll switch to doing it vertically. I might also try doing a jump bomb jump here; that allows you to land on the platform after two rounds of bomb jumps instead of just gripping the ledge. (If you do it really well, you can instead grab the ledge after only one round of bomb jumps.)

[quote="Mobiusman"][quote="kirbymastah"]
33:22 - Hm maybe you can make the jump to the 2nd-to-last block with a jump extend, without power gripping? I never tried =x[/quote]pretty sure it's possible to not power grip anything in that room.[/quote]
I tried this a bit, and I was able to avoid gripping all ledges except for the block that's directly below another platform. I'm really inconsistent at this, though.

Also, in the heated room between hi-jump and screw attack, you can bomb jump diagonally instead of vertically by starting your bomb jump somewhere in the black circle in the following picture. If you do it pretty precisely, you can land on the ledge after two rounds of bombs; otherwise, you'll need to grab the ledge. I don't know how many of you already knew this, but I learned this just recently.

attachment:

nf.jpg

Mobiusman

2013-05-20 09:46:28 pm

Quote from spidey-widey:

Also, in the heated room between hi-jump and screw attack, you can bomb jump diagonally instead of vertically by starting your bomb jump somewhere in the black circle in the following picture. If you do it pretty precisely, you can land on the ledge after two rounds of bombs; otherwise, you'll need to grab the ledge. I don't know how many of you already knew this, but I learned this just recently.

have you tested this timing with the different possible enemy spawns? if doing this means you don't have to wait to kill that one guy who's sometimes crawling around the ledge then I am sold. so many times I've missed that guy, then taken damage from him, ruining my chances of skipping a refill >_>

spidey-widey

2013-05-20 10:08:21 pm

I haven't had any trouble with the enemy spawns yet, but I also haven't tested this extensively. I'll try this (and other things) a little later and report the results.

kirbymastah

2013-05-20 11:25:40 pm

I'm not sure about the mechanics of the acid worm, but i THINK it raises the acid level after it takes enough damage and you're above the acid when a round is starting. So it seems like after the second round of missiles, if you get back on land too quickly, it'll try to raise the acid level, so don't get back on land too quickly?

I haven't tested it so I'm not sure.

Dragondarch

2013-05-21 06:17:46 am

Quote from kirbymastah:

I'm not sure about the mechanics of the acid worm, but i THINK it raises the acid level after it takes enough damage and you're above the acid when a round is starting. So it seems like after the second round of missiles, if you get back on land too quickly, it'll try to raise the acid level, so don't get back on land too quickly?

I haven't tested it so I'm not sure.

I played around with it, and he raises the Acid each time he changes color (15, then 20? missiles). However, if you're under the acid, he'll skip this entirely. The reason we never see it with 2/12/16 is due to him not changing color at all.

Quote from spidey-widey:

I tried this out with very little success. Getting in 4 missiles initially goes well enough. However, in the last round when I need to get in 9-10 missiles, I usually find myself wasting about half of the missiles I shoot by hitting a non-vulnerable part of the worm. I have no idea why this would be, since I don't think my position under the worm is any different than when I shoot 2, 12, and 16 on the three rounds.

I had this same problem. When he's changed color, he seems to burrow farther into the wall than he does initially, which is why some missiles are missing. I honestly have no idea how Kirby gets around this.

[quote="kirbymastah"]I'm not sure about the mechanics of the acid worm, but i THINK it raises the acid level after it takes enough damage and you're above the acid when a round is starting. So it seems like after the second round of missiles, if you get back on land too quickly, it'll try to raise the acid level, so don't get back on land too quickly?

I haven't tested it so I'm not sure.[/quote]
I played around with it, and he raises the Acid each time he changes color (15, then 20? missiles). However, if you're under the acid, he'll skip this entirely. The reason we never see it with 2/12/16 is due to him not changing color at all.

[quote="spidey-widey"]I tried this out with very little success. Getting in 4 missiles initially goes well enough. However, in the last round when I need to get in 9-10 missiles, I usually find myself wasting about half of the missiles I shoot by hitting a non-vulnerable part of the worm. I have no idea why this would be, since I don't think my position under the worm is any different than when I shoot 2, 12, and 16 on the three rounds.[/quote]
I had this same problem. When he's changed color, he seems to burrow farther into the wall than he does initially, which is why some missiles are missing. I honestly have no idea how Kirby gets around this.

Mobiusman

Edit history:

Mobiusman: 2013-05-21 08:02:17 am

2013-05-21 08:01:33 am

even if he's already changed colour, you won't miss if you're at the leftmost point under the block. And even if you do miss, you should still be able to get enough shots in to finish him.
I definitely agree that counting shots in the first cycle is optimal, but I've always just fired the maximum and it's still consistent.

regarding the kraid save station tank, whether you can get it early depends on several other factors about your early game (why is this category so complicated). If you're doing late varia or early kraid cleanup you need the extra missiles. Getting them late dashes any hope of skipping a refill at screw attack, but I don't think any current route can do that with any consistency anyway. But yeah, if you're doing early varia and late kraid cleanup (which is probably the popular route atm), and you have a comfortable number of missiles for acid worm, it makes sense to leave it for later.

kirbymastah

2013-05-21 10:19:06 am

When he changes color and burrows further in the wall, I fall in the acid while lined up against the right side of the block he's burrowed in, move like 2-3 pixels left (i basically tap left) then I fire missiles up. It works 100% of the time for me; IIRC ZX is the one who told me about that.

spidey-widey

2013-05-21 03:26:44 pm

Thanks kirby, that seems to make it consistent.

Also, after some more testing, I believe the diagonal bomb jump in the heated room before screw attack should always work, regardless of enemy spawns. In one spawn I encountered, there'll be an enemy right on the spot where you should start your bomb jump; in this case, you should run off the ledge as usual, shoot a missile directly downward, and then morph. The enemy dies before you make contact with it.

Mobiusman

2013-05-21 04:44:45 pm

not very exciting news, but I got a 55:28 (in a run with a TERRIBLE ridley, might have been a PB otherwise) with late long, everything else in brinstar early, which is definitely my new favourite route. I was excited to finally have recent splits but wsplit didn't co-operate, so I guess I'll do some more later...

Thomaz

2013-05-22 08:10:50 am

Ridley truely is terrible though. I don't wanna know how many good SSes I've lost because something would happen there, unless you mean the Ridley fight?

Anyway, after doing two 100% SSes at like 2 AM yesterday and the day before that, I can conclude that running when tired sucks. First run had 58:57 and the second 57:13 lol. I'm not gonna bother explaining what went wrong, because I'd be stuck here typing a huge story. But I can tell you, the last E-tank must die. In both runs, I think I had to reset the room four times (alarm won't go off on it's own) and missed tons of sparks. I really hate that room. =(

So after all that, I figured I should continue that 'quick and dirty run'. Finally got a segment I'm decently happy with. Saved with 21:04 on the clock in Ridley. This route is the same route Spidey used when he ran segmented (so without late Kraid cleanup).

kirbymastah

2013-05-22 10:07:13 am

You should try speedrunning while sick. I got my metroid fusion 1:07 100% run while I was sick.

Thomaz

2013-05-22 07:13:43 pm

lol, maybe.

Couldn't be arsed to reset for uberluck and whatnot so I have 27:40 at save before MB right now. I realized how bad I am at the Zebetite part and the MB fight due to having to switch with Select constantly, so I figured, why not use regulars for Zebs and Supers for MB? It works like a charm for a Left-handed like me. =D

I should record this just because it looks so damn cool.

spidey-widey

2013-05-23 04:16:22 am

52:03 100% SS, uh, that wasn't exactly an amazing run. I actually had a run earlier today that was about 30 seconds ahead of this one at Tourian, but then I messed up a walljump and died in the suitless sequence.

After that death, I decided to try any% a bit using a 6:35 Norfair II save that I got back in December. I now have a save at Tourian at 14:33, and it was somewhat messy; between these two segments, I'd guess there's enough room for improvement to hit 14:20 at Tourian. I think a 14:20 Tourian save would probably be good enough to get a final time below 26:20, which is interesting because I'd originally thought an optimized run would come in between 26:20 and 26:30.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2013-05-23 09:24:25 am

2013-05-23 09:18:23 am

Oh wow. That's nice. You'll get there eventually.

And 14:33 is pretty amazing even if it's messy like you said. 14:20 is even crazier I guess. I postulated that I can get sub 14:50 if I really work my ass off. =(

(although 7 seconds are lost due to the extra save)

MASTER-88

2013-05-23 02:55:51 pm

Speedrunner

Thats so awesome Spidey.

Did you have livechannel? Im not never see you in speedrunlive or SDA live.

Thomaz

2013-05-23 07:56:30 pm

Okay, so I promised, I recorded my Mother Brain strat. Because my mashing is slow as fuck and pressing Select in mid-battle is just meh, I think I like this a bit more (eventhough it might be harder due to the double Super thing).

Enjoy anyway.

spidey-widey

2013-05-24 12:00:30 am

Quote from MASTER-88:

Thats so awesome Spidey.

Did you have livechannel? Im not never see you in speedrunlive or SDA live.

Unfortunately not; I don't think I have the necessary equipment to stream from my gamecube. I might try to start streaming sometime though.

Also, 51:53, but I'm still not satisfied. I'll try to at least bring this down to 51:30. That'll have to wait until next week, though, since I'll be out of town until Monday (which also means I won't be racing this weekend).

kirbymastah

2013-05-24 09:02:43 am

SUB-52!!!!

ZX497

2013-05-25 02:26:45 am

Sick times, Spidey. I think you're starting to borderline that zone, where getting a segmented run faster than an SS run is really hard, due to time wasted on saves... so I think segmented runs are gonna be, like, four segments or something to keep them viable O_o