Post your time, percent, and difficulty here!

Edit history:

spidey-widey: 2013-04-06 04:48:03 am

2013-04-06 04:47:50 am

You guys have inspired me to try another 100% run myself. Using the old route and taking each segment on the first try (except when I messed up a bomb jump at the very beginning), I got a 55:12. I think that's quite good, all considered. There were only a couple of major mistakes, although small mistakes were littered all throughout.

The old 100% route is feeling a bit stale, so I'd like to try implementing some of the route changes devised since Dragondarch's run. School has kept me especially busy as of late, so I doubt I'll do anything SDA worthy anytime soon, but at least it should be enjoyable (and also a nice change of pace).

MASTER-88

2013-04-06 11:41:18 am

Speedrunner

Thats awesome news Spidey. I´ll really hope see some recorded runs for you.

Im not still uderstand why you not submit your 53 in SDA. This run was so awesome IMO. But i´ll hope more better and better. Go go go man you could make it.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-06 01:09:09 pm

2013-04-06 01:08:44 pm

There are actually quite a new few things found with routing.

The ZX route of cleaning up upper brinstar just before tourian was shown to be a few seconds faster than dragondarch's route of cleaning up brinstar (which is going to upper brinstar right after bombs), but dragondarch found a strat where you get the missile tank in mid-brinstar after ridley with his route, rather than immediately after going to upper brinstar, so you have screw attack. That closes the gap, and honestly the difference is so small that you might as well use the route that you're most comfortable with. Also ZX's route doesn't have that refill so you'll have to rely on missile drops a bit :P At your level spidey, you probably want to stick to dragondarch's route

Dragondarch also tried a new clean-up route after kraid, where after lower norfair cleanup, he goes to west norfair then immediately to crateria (and also delaying a east norfair missile tank until cleanup). He hasn't timed it yet, but it looks promising and it could potentially be faster.

There are actually quite a new few things found with routing.

The ZX route of cleaning up upper brinstar just before tourian was shown to be a few seconds faster than dragondarch's route of cleaning up brinstar (which is going to upper brinstar right after bombs), but dragondarch found a strat where you get the missile tank in mid-brinstar after ridley with his route, rather than immediately after going to upper brinstar, so you have screw attack. That closes the gap, and honestly the difference is so small that you might as well use the route that you're most comfortable with. Also ZX's route doesn't have that refill so you'll have to rely on missile drops a bit :P At your level spidey, you probably want to stick to dragondarch's route

Dragondarch also tried a new clean-up route after kraid, where after lower norfair cleanup, he goes to west norfair then immediately to crateria (and also delaying a east norfair missile tank until cleanup). He hasn't timed it yet, but it looks promising and it could potentially be faster.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-06 01:19:02 pm

2013-04-06 01:18:23 pm

Also spidey, it'd be great if you can join our races on speedrunslive.com ; you don't have to stream to race (well you do if you're playing on emulator) :) looking forward to crushing your PB!

Also master-88, his PB has some bad mistakes IIRC, and from his point of view, he probably doesn't want to submit yet. It also has some slightly outdated strats.

Mobiusman

2013-04-06 02:02:41 pm

Quote from kirbymastah:

Dragondarch also tried a new clean-up route after kraid, where after lower norfair cleanup, he goes to west norfair then immediately to crateria (and also delaying a east norfair missile tank until cleanup). He hasn't timed it yet, but it looks promising and it could potentially be faster.

Colour me interested. is this the route you're talking about?

the missile tanks at 1, 2, and 3 could all theoretically be left until cleanup (leaving 2 might be slower, but 1 and 3 should definitely be faster).

MASTER-88

2013-04-06 03:02:14 pm

Speedrunner

When i speedrun Zero mission i got 56:36 IIRC. I used several segments/savepoints, then i thinking lowest possible time is is 54.55 single segmented. But its look i am totally wrong.

Mistakes are human. Long game like this will always includes some mistakes

kirbymastah

2013-04-06 03:48:06 pm

yeah that's the route dragondarch tried and it seems promising. You'll pop out in the middle of crateria, rather than having to bactrack through brinstar and popping out left of crateria.

Definitely worth testing. GO DRAGONFANGS, GO TEST IT.

MASTER-88

2013-04-06 05:02:16 pm

Speedrunner

Sorry Kirby i not undestand you point. My bad.

Is there really better route beat this game?

kirbymastah

2013-04-06 09:44:14 pm

The route that mobius man just mapped out has not yet been tested, and it is promising. I don't know if it's faster or not, but it is a nice change of pace. It'd be really cool if we had another case of route change between zx's and dragondarch's brinstar route like that, aka choose the route you like more (aka both routes are very close)

Dragonfangs

2013-04-07 10:02:59 am

I tested that route yesterday on my stream, and it was around 10 seconds faster in game, not even counting potential later missile tanks. And about 5 seconds more saved real time. Why were we going back through Kraid again?

Mobiusman

Edit history:

Mobiusman: 2013-04-07 06:47:33 pm

2013-04-07 11:29:53 am

So I said I wasn't going to do serious runs until I had recording equipment set up, but I've been frustrated by knowing how much time I can save on my old PB, and this new route stuff tipped me over the edge. I just completed a really good run with the new route and all the new strats and no major mistakes and got a 55:33 :) (100% SS)

kirbymastah

2013-04-07 05:25:11 pm

Hold up. With the new route, if we leave missile tank #2 (according to mobiusman's map) for cleanup, that means on the first trip through that room, we can maintain a speed boost all the way, and thus delaying ice beam until later would save a little more time than originally. Not sure if it's still viable to delay ice beam, but I'm sure it saves a bit more time now by getting missile tank #2 during cleanup.

And I think after getting missile tank #2, you don't have to move far right to start a speed boost in ordre to ballspark across the entirety of upper norfair. Of course I haven't tested it, but it'd make sense to delay missile tank #2 to cleanup, since space jumping up there is a few seconds faster than shinesparking...

Mobiusman

2013-04-07 06:46:54 pm

yeah, I had the same thought. optimising norfair and ridley without ice beam is actually pretty annoying, but if there are good enough strats to do so it probably works out a little faster.

spidey-widey

2013-04-08 04:20:11 pm

Quote:

dragondarch found a strat where you get the missile tank in mid-brinstar after ridley with his route, rather than immediately after going to upper brinstar, so you have screw attack.

I'm not sure which missile tank this is; is it soon before the hive room? With screw attack, you can simply break the bomb block and power grip your way to the missile, right?

Quote:

Also spidey, it'd be great if you can join our races on speedrunslive.com ; you don't have to stream to race (well you do if you're playing on emulator) :) looking forward to crushing your PB!

That sounds like good fun. When are you guys typically racing? I should warn you that my PB (which is actually a segmented 53:23) is quite far from the best I can do. ;)

Also, the new clean-up route through Norfair instead of Kraid sounds great! I can't believe none of us had thought to try that before. I guess it also leaves us with an extra power bomb to use somewhere, since we no longer need to use a power bomb after dropping from Crateria to Brinstar.

[quote]dragondarch found a strat where you get the missile tank in mid-brinstar after ridley with his route, rather than immediately after going to upper brinstar, so you have screw attack.[/quote]
I'm not sure which missile tank this is; is it soon before the hive room? With screw attack, you can simply break the bomb block and power grip your way to the missile, right?

[quote]Also spidey, it'd be great if you can join our races on speedrunslive.com ; you don't have to stream to race (well you do if you're playing on emulator) :) looking forward to crushing your PB![/quote]
That sounds like good fun. When are you guys typically racing? I should warn you that my PB (which is actually a segmented 53:23) is quite far from the best I can do.  ;)

Also, the new clean-up route through Norfair instead of Kraid sounds great! I can't believe none of us had thought to try that before. I guess it also leaves us with an extra power bomb to use somewhere, since we no longer need to use a power bomb after dropping from Crateria to Brinstar.

Thomaz

Edit history:

Thomaz: 2013-04-08 04:28:06 pm

2013-04-08 04:26:06 pm

This sounds really interesting, but I have no idea what the route would look like exactly. Then again, I don't have much time lately, but when I do, I'll make sure to study this route. ;)

And yes, optimising Norfair and Ridley without Ice Beam is really annoying. I'm not sure if it's worth it in SS at all, unless you've gotten really good at it...

And it seems I need to step up my game. =O

kirbymastah

2013-04-08 04:35:00 pm

Well the general route is what mobiusman mapped above. After you get the super missile and missile tank that you typically get in the old route, instead of going left to Kraid, you climb up and go right through Norfair.

He has missile tanks labeled 1, 2, 3. Missile tanks 1 is faster to get during cleanup because you can just high-jump up there I guess. Missile tank 3 is far faster to get during cleanup because you can space boost and enemies aren't as much of a hassle to deal with thanks to screw attacak. Missile tank 2 is probably faster to get during cleanup, as spacejumping up there is faster than shinesparking, but at worst it should break even.

Mobiusman

2013-04-08 04:57:08 pm

Quote from spidey-widey:

I'm not sure which missile tank this is; is it soon before the hive room? With screw attack, you can simply break the bomb block and power grip your way to the missile, right?

Yup, that's the one.

Quote from spidey-widey:

Also, the new clean-up route through Norfair instead of Kraid sounds great! I can't believe none of us had thought to try that before. I guess it also leaves us with an extra power bomb to use somewhere, since we no longer need to use a power bomb after dropping from Crateria to Brinstar.

Dragondarch used the power bomb to clear out bomb blocks in the room just left of hi-jump. Can you think of anywhere better to use it?

Quote from spidey-widey:

That sounds like good fun. When are you guys typically racing?

Good question. When's best for you? And would you prefer any% races or 100% races?

kirbymastah

2013-04-08 09:54:19 pm

Or we should do weekly races for both

Dragonfangs

2013-04-09 04:53:34 am

Quote from Mobiusman:

Quote from spidey-widey:

Also, the new clean-up route through Norfair instead of Kraid sounds great! I can't believe none of us had thought to try that before. I guess it also leaves us with an extra power bomb to use somewhere, since we no longer need to use a power bomb after dropping from Crateria to Brinstar.

Dragondarch used the power bomb to clear out bomb blocks in the room just left of hi-jump. Can you think of anywhere better to use it?

I did that too when timing the route, it saves about 40 frames to use it there. I don't think there are any big places left where PBs can save time in the route.

spidey-widey

2013-04-09 05:50:13 am

How about this room? If you delay getting this super missile and then use a power bomb before grabbing it, you have a more direct route than you'd have by going through the room to the left, and you don't have to stop and kill pirates to open the gate. It might save more than 40 frames. (Keep in mind that I haven't tried using a power bomb in either location, and for all I know, you guys might be using a power bomb here already. >_<)

As far as races go, I can often do Saturday nights, and anything else is difficult to promise. (I'm on Pacific Standard Time, by the way.) 100% would probably be my preference because the acid worm skip still gives me an embarrassing amount of grief.

attachment:

pb2.gif

Mobiusman

2013-04-09 06:09:37 am

Quote from spidey-widey:

for all I know, you guys might be using a power bomb here already.

Actually, we are. Great minds think alike! :P

We originally suggested any% because we figured it would be more accessible to more people, but it seems like Kirby and I are the only ones actually interested, and we're both primarily 100% players. So I'm glad to hear you say you'd rather play it too.

spidey-widey

2013-04-09 06:21:28 am

Excellent! I'll have to start using a power bomb there myself. I never did it in the past because I was just copying other peoples' 100% runs without giving any thought to possible improvements and route changes.

If you're using a power bomb there already, then are you using one here too? I like using one here because otherwise, I find that I'm often hit and knocked backward five times while escaping from the morph ball maze. If you're already using a power bomb here also, then I either miscounted power bombs, or else I used one in a dumb place in my 53:56. :/

attachment:

pb1.gif

Mobiusman

2013-04-09 06:48:03 am

I don't personally use a power bomb in that room, I just fire a warning shot before jumping up and take a couple of hits. It is a little annoying, but I think it's less important than the other spots in the route. If I'm lucky enough to get a drop during cleanup I'll definitely start using it in that room though.

spidey-widey

2013-04-09 07:13:09 am

I suppose I'm more inclined to use a power bomb there than in Norfair near the hi-jump. Even after shooting upwards a few times, I'd guess that I lose at least 40 frames on average by not using a power bomb, though admittedly I've not timed it. I don't know, maybe simply shooting a few diagonal shots before entering the maze would solve my problems.

However, it is now clear to me where I would use a lucky power bomb refill if I happened to get one during the cleanup.

ZX497

2013-04-09 10:51:23 am

This route change offers so many choices right now, really hard for me to wrap my head around as to what would be the fastest. I'm currently trying out two different things:

- Leaving Ice Beam for later, and also grabbing that one extra Super Missile tank in Norfair, which is normally gotten during clean-up (having extra supers saves time on Imago Cocoon in particular, plus you can get a small time saving Space Boost through the triple side-hopper room during clean-up).

- Taking the any% route from Ice (Ridley shortcut), and leaving the hot room Super Missile for clean-up. Sort of a weird route, cause you gotta climb the Norfair shaft up almost all the way.

I have no idea what to do. I'm even teasing the idea of leaving almost all of Norfair for clean-up, including Wave Beam and Screw Attack.