PAL version any% and 100% speed runs

2011-05-15 08:12:28 pm

If i had the consistency you have i wouldn't accept big mistakes in the begginning of the game, because i always feel like, if i do a big mistake in the beginning and carry on with the run and all go well, i will always think the run is stainned and why i didn't reset. That's a little different from a big mistake in the end or middle of the game i think... Well, that's what i would do, but don't take me bad, i know you have your reasons, and i'm trying Segmented anyway, so it's probably different. Good luck with your run!

Btw, i was thinking of a strategy for the first metroid's room in Torian, don't know if it would work but maybe you can give it a shot and see how it feels. Basically it's the TAS strategy, you handle the first metroid the same you've been doing, the difference is the second one. After killing the first metroid and cancelling the Super Missile selection, quickly shoot the beam and jump from the ledge, and while in the air, quickly select the Super and shoot in the metroid that should be frozen. If it works and you still have time in the air after cancelling the Super Missile selection again, you can try to freeze the third metroid while in the air or landing on the ground.

If i had the consistency you have i wouldn't accept big mistakes in the begginning of the game, because i always feel like, if i do a big mistake in the beginning and carry on with the run and all go well, i will always think the run is stainned and why i didn't reset. That's a little different from a big mistake in the end or middle of the game i think... Well, that's what i would do, but don't take me bad, i know you have your reasons, and i'm trying Segmented anyway, so it's probably different. Good luck with your run!

Btw, i was thinking of a strategy for the first metroid's room in Torian, don't know if it would work but maybe you can give it a shot and see how it feels. Basically it's the TAS strategy, you handle the first metroid the same you've been doing, the difference is the second one. After killing the first metroid and cancelling the Super Missile selection, quickly shoot the beam and jump from the ledge, and while in the air, quickly select the Super and shoot in the metroid that should be frozen. If it works and you still have time in the air after cancelling the Super Missile selection again, you can try to freeze the third metroid while in the air or landing on the ground.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2011-05-15 08:33:02 pm

2011-05-15 08:21:48 pm

Ahh yes, I remember trying that ages ago but found the canceling difficult with the old default setup. Should definitely be easier with the my current configuration. But iirc it wasn't just the quick canceling that was the problem, more the actual shot from the beam wasn't consistent at shooting before i took off for the space jumps. But nonetheless I'll try it again. The good thing about it is I could get some more supers that my normal strategy misses. The downside is the last metroid might be slower to kill. I didn't manage this on my 100% but I meant to jump and shoot the 3rd metroid but keep rising from that and shoot my beam and a super at the 4th metroid before i land and then i can run fast to the blinking door. Your strategy however would mean i land like I accidently did in my 100% and stop to kill the 4th metroid. But anyway I'll see how it goes.

[edit] actually my configuration still is the same on the face buttons so it wouldnt make a difference lol. But i'm considerably better at the game then i was when i did my old 34 and before that so lets see how it goes

Ahh yes, I remember trying that ages ago but found the canceling difficult with the old default setup. Should definitely be easier with the my current configuration. But iirc it wasn't just the quick canceling that was the problem, more the actual shot from the beam wasn't consistent at shooting before i took off for the space jumps. But nonetheless I'll try it again. The good thing about it is I could get some more supers that my normal strategy misses. The downside is the last metroid might be slower to kill. I didn't manage this on my 100% but I meant to jump and shoot the 3rd metroid but keep rising from that and shoot my beam and a super at the 4th metroid before i land and then i can run fast to the blinking door. Your strategy however would mean i land like I accidently did in my 100% and stop to kill the 4th metroid. But anyway I'll see how it goes.

[edit] actually my configuration still is the same on the face buttons so it wouldnt make a difference lol. But i'm considerably better at the game then i was when i did my old 34 and before that so lets see how it goes

Reeve

2011-05-15 08:45:21 pm

I didn't understand what you said about the 4th metroid. This strategy is just for the two first Metroids, and maybe, it would make some influence on how you kill the third, but the fourth is not involved... maybe i'm missing something.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2011-05-15 08:57:13 pm

2011-05-15 08:51:54 pm

Well it would need a smv of what i mean but i can't do that anymore. basically the place you land for your strategy would mean stopping in your tracks for the fourth to kill it. My strategy in my 100% was meant to kill the third metroid during the jump like i did but pass it's location flying high and shoot and beam and a super at the fourth and land. so no delay, or not much. If you still don't understand, don't worry about it lol.

But anyway I'm practicing the strategy and it seems to be quite hard. Especially to kill the 2nd. The speed and space jump timing is not letting me reach the platform past the lava either. I rememeber forensic saying my strategy is better for console and I can see why now, and I now see why I adopted it ages ago

Reeve

2011-05-15 09:17:35 pm

I think i understand now... hehehe... anyway, if it's harder, then the way you're doing is the best. Also, remember what i said some time about Botwoon's drops? After His drops apear, there's still some time before the wall crumble for you to pass. So you can stay in the middle of the screen, or in the right side, after killing Botwwon, so as soon as you feel the drops will apear, run and jump to the left, so you can collect some drops from the middile, so quickly turn around and run to jump over the crumble wall. I think you can collect all drops or almost all without loosing time. This strategy is good for any kind of run, but better for any% because if you're lucky, you can collect some supers.

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2011-05-15 09:28:14 pm

2011-05-15 09:26:47 pm

Yeah I've been picking up some more drops from Botwoon. Namely just doing a quick, small upward jump to get some drops above me on the left before the run, but i haven't tried that way you mentioned picking up all of them. I'll bare that in mind. Funny thing, I actually time the arrival of the drops by Botwoons body destruction sequence

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2011-05-15 09:40:50 pm

2011-05-15 09:40:28 pm

Yeah, i use his body destruction too. I don't know if you can collect all drops, but i think it's possible. If you jump from middle to the left side you cover a good part of the left side, and then when you run and jump over the pilar, you cover a good part of the right side too, so i think it's quite feasible to collect all drops or at least the major part of them and with luck you don't let any super behind.

Reeve

2011-05-17 12:24:43 am

CONGRATULATION, BEHEMOTH!!! YOUR RUN WAS ACCEPTED IN SDA!

Behemoth

2011-05-28 04:19:18 pm

Well I just got a 0:32, with great difficulty I might add.

I haven't watched it yet and once again I only seem to recall the bad shit. I do remember getting a rather lame 42 on the ceres escape. Of course the run was clean but it had it's fair share of shit. I'm certain I'll do some more attempts over the next few weeks to try and clean this run up a little bit more. But now I know I can do it I should have huge confidence booster to do it again. Only a matter of time now folks, YEAH !!

Quietus

2011-05-29 09:20:26 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Yay! Now that ~~0:31~~ 0:32 has been achieved, we'll have to go trick hunting again, you know? Razz

Behemoth

2011-05-30 10:59:00 am

hehe, well I wish there were some new things to discover but that's not really likely, even if there were, they would few of them and only be small and not at all 'helpful' to my time by any means. Having said that I did another 0:32 last night. Slightly worse than the last one. I got to the Golden statue 20 seconds slower than the last run. But I made up the time by doing Tourian nearly flawlessly. The run is still not all there though. So much could be improved.

I've come to the surprising conclusion that 0:31 isn't as totally infeasible as I used to think. But it would of course need a ludicrously clean run. Such a run would counter the need to do a segmented run in the future because of course SS runs are considered more impressive, and I can't reach 0:30 in a segmented run. It would be legendary but could take me way more time than I hoped. I would like to be done with this game some day. Or maybe I should save myself the stress and stick to my guns of doing a very good SS 0:32, then doing a segmented 0:31. hmm.... Chin scratching time Think

hehe, well I wish there were some new things to discover but that's not really likely, even if there were, they would few of them and only be small and not at all 'helpful' to my time by any means. Having said that I did another 0:32 last night. Slightly worse than the last one. I got to the Golden statue 20 seconds slower than the last run. But I made up the time by doing Tourian nearly flawlessly. The run is still not all there though. So much could be improved.

I've come to the surprising conclusion that 0:31 isn't as totally infeasible as I used to think. But it would of course need a ludicrously clean run. Such a run would counter the need to do a segmented run in the future because of course SS runs are considered more impressive, and I can't reach 0:30 in a segmented run. It would be legendary but could take me way more time than I hoped. I would like to be done with this game some day. Or maybe I should save myself the stress and stick to my guns of doing a very good SS 0:32, then doing a segmented 0:31. hmm.... Chin scratching time :um_orig:

Quietus

2011-05-30 03:51:59 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I'd suggest seeing how consistent you can become with 0:32. If you're hitting it even one in ten times, then it could be worth considering as a possible goal, but if consistent 0:32s are not heppening, then it would seem that you'd need the most ridiculous luck in the world to get a 0:31, in which case you'd be better off doing the lottery. Razz

Behemoth

2011-05-30 04:31:11 pm

I predict that I could get 0:32 as often as one in three - five runs if I just keep playing. The trouble is that they are all going to be high ones, and all damn difficult to hit. I need such consistency and extremely good luck to shed another minute from the run somehow. Although it's possible, it will be the most tedious and relentlessly frustrating thing I can imagine.

Damn this game. If there was no luck involved and just hard stuff to worry about then absolutely I'd do it. This luck aspect just seems to add lifespan to these runs, and being continually disappointed/frustrated. But I guess it makes the whole experience more rewarding when you finally accomplish a run.

O well, enough of that rant, back to work.

Quietus

2011-05-30 05:52:20 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

And that is the nature of speedrunning. 50% skill, 50% luck.

Reeve

2011-05-30 10:00:20 pm

I've been thinking about what you said on msn, that 31min is feasible but would need months (maybe), and you said now that if you manage to get 31min, then it wouldn't be worth to do any% segmented as the time can't be lower than 31min. Well, i'd say go for 31 SS (I know it's outstandingly hard) even if it would take a long time, OR... you could go for a segmented 31min now (which maybe could be less stressing) and let the SS any% and 100% for later.

Behemoth

2011-06-25 02:41:28 pm

I nearly forgot to post this. 2 days ago I done a 32. Specifically I know for a fact it's around 32:40-45. I'm gonna try and upload it just to you-tube next weekend for you all to see. The reason being, I need some encouragement to improve it a lot. The run had no Torizo skip but I had very good bosses. 2 round fastest patterns phantoon, 2 round botwoon, 3 round plus blue suit draygon and a good Ridley. However my play at certain areas were pretty sloppy, making numerous errors which just shouldn't happen. That said with the an added Torizo skip I know I can subtract at least 40 seconds and hopefully I can get 31. So yeah 31 is the goal now. It will be of course the hardest thing I've ever done, but I will rise to this challenge. There is a small possibility I'll get fed up with it and might settle for an exellent low to mid 32 but I'll try to stick this challenge out as best I can.

Quietus

2011-06-26 10:39:57 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

There's nothing stopping you from submitting the 32, but you should be aware that usually the verifiers are players with intimate knowledge of the game, and if you're submitting a run, it's not always enough to actually just beat the current record. They also have to factor in what is the current best estimate for the record, so it's possible - unlikely, of course - that they COULD refuse a 32. I'd suggest setting the 31 as your goal, and trying for regular 32s. It may also be worth watching your runs for rooms that the errors come more often than others, and looking for safer strategies for them. I get the impression that some of your runs would be good enough boss-wise, but you are unhappy with them for general room traversal errors.

Behemoth

2011-06-26 11:14:24 am

Well I'm certainly not going to submit this 32 minute run. I'm just putting it to youtube so people can dissect it add any comments, regarding what could be improved and such. But yeah I know what you mean. 31 is the goal and I like to think I won't stop until I get it but I can't predict the future or how long it's going to take.

Regarding my runs themselves. They switch between the two. Either it's: good bosses, with some sloppy play here and there. Or it's good play, with bad luck on bosses. My aim is really now to just play constantly until i can be nearly perfect all the way through and just get a lucky bosses run to. It's needs to be both in order to get 31, and then some ... Brick wall

Quietus

2011-06-26 01:42:44 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I think that's how lots of speedruns end up: luck > skill.

Behemoth

2011-06-26 04:32:26 pm

Indeed.

Well I just did a run that is about 10 seconds faster than the other one. So 32:30-35 ?. After some discussion with Reeve we both came to the idea of only continuing the run if I get a Torizo skip. Which this run had. Without it it's futile to attempt a 31. Luckily I have some consistency with it now.

I think from now till next weekend i'll probably have several runs better than the first initial one I talked about. So instead of updating every day I'll just upload the best run I manage to do over the next 5 days and upload it at the weekend.

Quietus

2011-06-26 06:41:26 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I know you've probably already done it, but I'd suggest emulating the Torizo room, saving right as you enter his door, and mark almost down to the pixel how you get the skip. Anyway, I wish you luck.

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2011-06-27 02:04:18 am

2011-06-27 02:02:02 am

Quote from Behemoth:

Well I just did a run that is about 10 seconds faster than the other one. So 32:30-35 ?. I think from now till next weekend i'll probably have several runs better than the first initial one I talked about. So instead of updating every day I'll just upload the best run I manage to do over the next 5 days and upload it at the weekend.

Great work, man! I think that after you get some Torizo skips, the nerves will calm down a little even if you manage to keep going well in the beginning to the middle of the run. The nerves will probably attack in the end of the run, as you feel you're achieving your goal, but that's pretty normal. Go! Go! Go!

Btw, i'm salivating for your upload. Maybe it will be the 31min run already. hehehe... Even if it's not, i know it will be an amazing run!

lxx4xNx6xxl

Edit history:

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2011-06-28 06:08:50 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2011-06-28 06:08:32 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2011-06-28 06:07:40 am

lxx4xNx6xxl: 2011-06-28 06:06:40 am

2011-06-28 06:05:54 am

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Great job Behemoth, I really can't wait to see your Any%!!!

After the long and needed break I'm finally back. Damn I miss you guys and most of all I miss playing this game!!!

BTW check out the NTSC thread!!!

Reeve

2011-06-28 07:18:49 am

Great to see you around again, Forensics! Really nice. Going to check the NTSC...

Behemoth

2011-06-28 10:01:20 am

Thanks man ! It's gonna be a while and my hardest challenge yet but I need to do it. No backing away from this one, haha.

And very welcome back. I left a message on the NTSC thread.