Other M Expected to sell highly

arkarian

2009-07-30 11:20:28 am

red chamber dream

Quote from Opium:

I think every gamer holds super in highest regard in the series.

i like many metroid game much more than super.

Quietus

2009-07-30 11:47:52 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Sweeping statements and generalisation abound, people! aiwebs_011

It's a bit like Final Fantasy. Most players would choose VII, but you'll always get a handful that'll choose VI or IV instead.

tomatobob

2009-07-30 05:23:28 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from Quietus:

It's a bit like Final Fantasy. Most players would choose VII, but you'll always get a handful that'll choose VI or IV instead.

You shouldn't say such things, it's very depressing.

Gamma_Metroid

2009-07-30 06:37:33 pm

Quote from tomatobob:

You shouldn't say such things, it's very depressing.

;(

Quote from arkarian:

Quote from Opium:

I think every gamer holds super in highest regard in the series.

i like many metroid game much more than super.

It's better to say "Super is one of the most popular games of all time." That can actually be kind of confirmed.

Opium

2009-07-31 09:03:41 am

Maybe I should have said that most longtime metroid fans hold Super as the most metroidy of all the metroid games? Or maybe I should say nothing since I always forget how popular Prime is in here.

Quietus

2009-07-31 09:43:55 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I guess the safest bet would be for everybody to say absolutely nothing.

No, wait, that might not be so conducive to a popular forum... Wink

Gamma_Metroid

2009-07-31 10:40:54 am

Quote from Quietus:

No, wait, that might not be so conducive to a popular forum... Wink

Maybe popular in our world.

J-SNAKE

(user is banned)

2009-08-03 05:56:34 am

thats me

Quote from Terrization Zillion:

What do you mean by "Metroid compatible"?

Make it more organic, including or translating and compensating design-elements which are suitable for 2D. Personally movement puzzles using organic wall-jump and grapple-beam would be nice.

Terrization Zillion

2009-08-03 09:23:35 am

Believe it or not that's actually a floppy disk.

Quote from J-SNAKE:

Quote from Terrization Zillion:

What do you mean by "Metroid compatible"?

Make it more organic, including or translating and compensating design-elements which are suitable for 2D. Personally movement puzzles using organic wall-jump and grapple-beam would be nice.

I see, what do you mean by organic though? Organic fluency?

J-SNAKE

(user is banned)

2009-08-03 09:43:59 am

thats me

By "organic" I mean that your action or certain results of it are not "scripted", one clear example for an organic action is that you have full control over how high you can jump, a second one can be applying wall jump freely in any physically suitable corner you want and having good control over how to jump off the wall. These things are pretty important for me, allowing to create sophisticated movement puzzles, can add much gameplay-depth if correctly designed and allow you to feel more your environment and become one with it.

TheGreenManalishi

2009-08-03 10:18:33 am

Problem is, not everyone who can hold a wii remote is going to want to put the time in to learn all the organic skills that you speak of just to see the end of the game.

BioSpark

2009-08-03 11:02:06 am

i doubt "organic" is the right word. i don't know about the side view parts, but i'm pretty sure the first person parts will be similar to corruption.

J-SNAKE

(user is banned)

J-SNAKE

Edit history:

J-SNAKE: 2009-08-03 04:08:16 pm

2009-08-03 02:26:20 pm

thats me

Quote from TheGreenManalishi:

Problem is, not everyone who can hold a wii remote is going to want to put the time in to learn all the organic skills that you speak of just to see the end of the game.

Yes, thats right. The problem is the appropriate input device. In FPS a mouse+keybord is first choice, in sidescrolling view something like xbox360-controller is ideal to separate moving from the fully organic aiming on the fly.
(Btw. thats a thing I just can't get: I think it is obvious that certain games can only reveal their potential with the appropriate input device. So why arent at least some game-ideas chosen according to the potential of the controller? For example there are so many FPS or FPS-like TPS for 360, but the fact is that the controller cannot reveal their potential by far. Sidescroll-games, especially sidescroll-action-aspects can fantastically reveal their potential with the 360/PS3-controller and add gameplay which was not imaginable in snes-times. Lacking creativity and faith in 2d today?)

Quote from BioSpark:

but i'm pretty sure the first person parts will be similar to corruption.

I hope for less of them but I dont give it much hope.

[quote="TheGreenManalishi"]
Problem is, not everyone who can hold a wii remote is going to want to put the time in to learn all the organic skills that you speak of just to see the end of the game.
[/quote]
Yes, thats right. The problem is the appropriate input device. In FPS a mouse+keybord is first choice, in sidescrolling view something like xbox360-controller is ideal to separate moving from the fully organic aiming on the fly.
(Btw. thats a thing I just can't get: I think it is obvious that certain games can only reveal their potential with the appropriate input device. So why arent at least some game-ideas chosen according to the potential of the controller? For example there are so many FPS or FPS-like TPS for 360, but the fact is that the controller cannot reveal their potential by far. Sidescroll-games, especially sidescroll-action-aspects can fantastically reveal their potential with the 360/PS3-controller and add gameplay which was not imaginable in snes-times. Lacking creativity and faith in 2d today?)

[quote="BioSpark"]
but i'm pretty sure the first person parts will be similar to corruption.
[/quote]
I hope for less of them but I dont give it much hope.

TheGreenManalishi

2009-08-03 03:52:04 pm

Quote from BioSpark:

i doubt "organic" is the right word.

Me neither.

Quote from J-SNAKE:

something like xbox360-controller

If there's one controller I wouldn't want to play a sidescroller with, it's the 360 one.

J-SNAKE

(user is banned)

J-SNAKE

Edit history:

J-SNAKE: 2009-08-03 04:03:20 pm

2009-08-03 03:57:45 pm

thats me

Quote from TheGreenManalishi:

If there's one controller I wouldn't want to play a sidescroller with, it's the 360 one.

Personally ps2-controller is ergonomically best of those but why?

(I am not talking about walk-control with the d-pad, just for the case you think of that, it is obvious it is horrible)

TheGreenManalishi

2009-08-03 05:15:19 pm

No, I think (ironically) the N64 pad would be best (chop off the unneccesary analog stick). More buttons than a SNES, similar dpad, perfect.

J-SNAKE

(user is banned)

2009-08-03 05:39:43 pm

thats me

Quote from TheGreenManalishi:

(chop off the unneccesary analog stick)

But they are necessary, just think of separating aiming from the moving on the fly, do you understand?

Quote from TheGreenManalishi:

More buttons than a SNES.

Just for the case I need to be clearer: It is not just about more buttons. If so, then keybord is champ. Regarding a button-amount alone is just hopeless QUANTITY and I sound funny for you just because you see it that way, lol. But I am talking about QUALITY, quality here is about how safely,intuitivly, quickly and how much of them you can push SIMULTANEOUSLY. Just think about a pc-shooter: many are even not aware how moving can be separated from the aiming but they just do it because it feels natural. Now think about thumbsticks for a 2d-shooter: one replaces the mouse, the other replaces "wasd" and it is still not done for them. They are ANALOG, here comes the additional advantage that you can adapt things like running-speed, some force needed for an action and so on. I am only scratching the surface. There is so much you can get out of it!

[quote="TheGreenManalishi"]
(chop off the unneccesary analog stick)
[/quote]But they are necessary, just think of separating aiming from the moving on the fly, do you understand?
[quote="TheGreenManalishi"]
More buttons than a SNES.
[/quote]
Just for the case I need to be clearer: It is not just about more buttons. If so, then keybord is champ. Regarding a button-amount alone is just hopeless  QUANTITY and I sound funny for you just because you see it that way, lol. But I am talking about QUALITY, quality here is about how safely,intuitivly, quickly and how much of them you can push SIMULTANEOUSLY. Just think about a pc-shooter: many are even not aware how moving can be separated from the aiming but they just do it because it feels natural. Now think about thumbsticks for a 2d-shooter: one replaces the mouse, the other replaces "wasd" and it is still not done for them. They are ANALOG, here comes the additional advantage that you can adapt things like running-speed, some force needed for an action and so on. I am only scratching the surface. There is so much you can get out of it!

FirePhoenix

2009-08-04 01:17:24 am

I wouldn't have a problem with using the 360 controller for a sidescroller if the left analog stick had grooves in it like the Gamecube controller does. When trying to play SM with a 360 controller I always end up messing up because the analog stick is so smooth that it ends up hitting the diagonal directions too easily, popping me out of spin jumps, stoppin me in mid-walk by accidentally crouching, etc. The only way for a analog stick to work with a sidescroller is for it to be programmed with diagonals-clearance so that there's room for error when you move the stick towards the diagonals. I don't want to have to have the stick perfectly to the right to have it recognize right and not right-up.

J-SNAKE

(user is banned)

2009-08-04 05:17:51 am

thats me

Quote from FirePhoenix:

When trying to play SM with a 360 controller I always end up messing up because the analog stick is so smooth that it ends up hitting the diagonal directions too easily, popping me out of spin jumps, stoppin me in mid-walk by accidentally crouching, etc. The only way for a analog stick to work with a sidescroller is for it to be programmed with diagonals-clearance so that there's room for error when you move the stick towards the diagonals. I don't want to have to have the stick perfectly to the right to have it recognize right and not right-up.

(Btw. 360-thumbsticks have more resistance-force than the ps-controllers, I guess using a ps-controller would be even too smooth)
Yes, thats an important point. Good you mention it. Sidescrollers like SM were designed for a d-pad and are hopeless, every impuls the movement gets counts, also there is no consideration of right priority in any situation to expect. And you control everything just with one stick there, it means movement is sticked together with the aiming, there is no separation. Like you said diagonal-clearance is important, I would call it tolerance. A simple example for the movement-thumbstick: moving it to the maximum corresponds 1.0. If you have only one movement-speed (another can be achieved with acceleration-button) you can say stick shall only react above 0.5 or even higher. That way your safety and gaming experience will change significantly since you have clear control now.

[quote="FirePhoenix"]
When trying to play SM with a 360 controller I always end up messing up because the analog stick is so smooth that it ends up hitting the diagonal directions too easily, popping me out of spin jumps, stoppin me in mid-walk by accidentally crouching, etc.  The only way for a analog stick to work with a sidescroller is for it to be programmed with diagonals-clearance so that there's room for error when you move the stick towards the diagonals.  I don't want to have to have the stick perfectly to the right to have it recognize right and not right-up.
[/quote]
(Btw. 360-thumbsticks have more resistance-force than the ps-controllers, I guess using a ps-controller would be even too smooth)
Yes, thats an important point. Good you mention it. Sidescrollers like SM were designed for a d-pad and are hopeless, every impuls the movement gets counts, also there is no consideration of right priority in any situation to expect. And you control everything just with one stick there, it means movement is sticked together with the aiming, there is no separation. Like you said diagonal-clearance is important, I would call it tolerance. A simple example for the movement-thumbstick: moving it to the maximum corresponds 1.0. If you have only one movement-speed (another can be achieved with acceleration-button) you can say stick shall only react above 0.5 or even higher. That way your safety and gaming experience will change significantly since you have clear control now.

TheGreenManalishi

2009-08-04 01:49:13 pm

Quote from FirePhoenix:

I wouldn't have a problem with using the 360 controller for a sidescroller if the left analog stick had grooves in it like the Gamecube controller does.

Why the GC controller is king of 3D fighting games, aside form arcade sticks.

UchihaSasuke

2009-08-10 04:52:54 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

what's all this nonsese about SM being the best game of all time and no game after it selling more than it?

SM was a good game but nowhere near the super awesome end of all game some people make it seem like. i like several metroid games over it.
the game didn't sell that great either: the first 2, Fusion, mp 1 and 3 sold more than SM overall.
the good points SM has is atmosphere, some cool moments and the soundtrack but the controls are hard to get used to and there's not many memorable areas.

Lucied Unlimited

2009-08-10 05:21:59 pm

All aboard the soul train

A couple things to make clear:

1) Sales don't matter. He meant that since Super Metroid, the series hasn't broken 1.5-2.0 million in sales. Which it hasn't.
2) People have opinions. I don't see why this is hard to understand.

Yeah.

DSDrew7

2009-08-12 04:49:06 pm

Break the chains!

Quote from Lucied Unlimited:

People have opinions. I don't see why this is hard to understand.

so much to agree on

IaIaPazuzu

2009-08-14 09:14:35 pm

Quote from TheGreenManalishi:

Why the GC controller is king of 3D fighting games, aside form arcade sticks.

Lol. SRK forums better not see this.

Terrization Zillion

2009-08-14 11:51:18 pm

Believe it or not that's actually a floppy disk.

What's SRK?