Original Composition - Determination

2007-10-02 10:22:29 pm

Quote from Chanoire:

Quote from Nario:

Sorry that I'm misunderstood, but then again, I am fairly unique so I don't expect everyone to get used to me right away.

We're quite used to "fairly unique" people. That's because most people consider themselves unique. The only thing about you that's registering as at all out of the ordinary, besides your persistence in clinging to the idea that you're in any position to talk down to your audience, is the bizarre non-sequitur with which you attempted to illustrate this. Calling your examples taboo-breaking viewpoints is ludicrous. To wit:

Quote from Nario:

As for the father, however, he is a male and a lot of males have sexually-driven impulses and some can't hold them in; he may have scarred the child but men are wolves and the child can still have a future to look forward to, even though she'll have a lot to overcome.

It is due to this logic that helps me overcome all taboo and base my thoughts on the truth, not false emotion. "OH NOES The man raped her! KILL HIM!" vs "Why did he do this? What he did was wrong but I'm sure there is a good explanation for this, however, he will by no means get away with this".

Your fatuous certainty that you're far more qualified than those "falsely emotional" people to determine "the truth" of an issue which is purely theoretical to you because they can't possibly be as logical as you believe yourself to be, your flippant description of the magnitude of a brutal and shattering crime as "oh noes", your insulting characterization of "a lot of males" as wolves who are simply unable to resist their natural impulse toward rape, and your belief that "a good explanation" can exist for rape are all entirely typical of people who have never been raped and are complacently certain they never will be. You're not different. You're not unique. You sure as hell aren't superior. You're just unaware that you've gone from the small pond in which you were a big frog into the bloody ocean.

I extremely appreciate you taking your time to post such a lengthy paragraph. You have automatically gained a huge quantity of respect from me.

Now, as for the discussion. First off, I've seen many people shrug off events without even wondering why such an event could occur; not even to question the factors that have caused such a predicament. A great example would be a female in my English 101 class. She said that homosexuals were sinful and disgusting, the teacher asked why, and she said "I don't know... they just are." Believing in something without a reason seems like the worst thing anyone could ever do, mainly because it puts shame on humanity and its potential to use intelligence and think critically. Putting intelligence to waste by ignoring reason seems like a waste of a person if you ask me, but she still has the right to live, to procreate, and to fulfill the requirements that we all have in this life, only that she will continue to live a reason-less life. It's kind of like being assigned an open response and writing down "I don't know" as the answer.

Secondly, I don't think I explained this clearly. Most men are wolves because a lot of what they think about goes down into the following list: sex, food, sex, sleep, sex, beer, and sex. The emphasis is obvious. ;) However, that does not mean that most men think about rape. In fact, rape is something that most men cringe thinking about and find it repulsive, being that it is; the nature of having sex without consent is disgusting and it's no wonder why it's looked down upon. While a rapist is definitely desperate to "get some" and might even have a few mental problems, we cannot overlook how sexually active the man is and if his condition can be fixed; of course, he'd still need to serve a lot of time for permanently scarring someone's life. The mind of a male usually revolves around sex, but there are exceptions. Some men have no want for sex, thus most likely won't participate in any sexual activities and might even find the act of masturbation to be a complete waste of time, even though it is beyond the fact it is a form of entertainment and giving pleasure to oneself. Overall, the average male almost constantly thinks about sex, but at the same time are disgusted by the thought of rape.

Lastly, you prove an excellent point between the perspectives of the raped and those not raped. According to the one who is raped, there is no logic and the rapist deserve major punishment; a major slap of doom to the groin, if you will. With that said, you are right on that point and I congratulate you for adjusting my thoughts. I only like to further my knowledge and you certainly have done just that. :D

I feel like this now belongs in a debate section. laugh new

One thing that really worries me is that only a select few of you actually took your time to discuss your opinion on me or the argument itself. Like, posting an emoticon as a response to my post is extremely vague and posting something like "okay..." means almost nothing and only proves that not only is the argument awkward but that a few don't even have the words to express his or her true opinions on the matter. Chanoire, you have done such superbly.

I wonder when we will focus on nothing but the song? laugh new

It's quite a shame how much of a stir I have caused... even though I think it's a great example of how I overlook taboo, no matter how disgusting they may be. If it must be known, I am 100% against rape and I actually have a feeling someone is going to bring up "why did you have to justify yourself?". If that is the case, then it's because of the nature of my post. I'm sure MANY could automatically call me a rape-lover and a murder-hater (due to stereotyping), even though I extremely despise both.

EDIT: moozooh, you stole the words from my mouth. :D

[quote="Chanoire"][quote="Nario"]Sorry that I'm misunderstood, but then again, I am fairly unique so I don't expect everyone to get used to me right away.[/quote]
We're quite used to "fairly unique" people.  That's because most people consider themselves unique.  The only thing about you that's registering as at all out of the ordinary, besides your persistence in clinging to the idea that you're in any position to talk down to your audience, is the bizarre non-sequitur with which you attempted to illustrate this.  Calling your examples taboo-breaking viewpoints is ludicrous.  To wit:

[quote="Nario"]As for the father, however, he is a male and a lot of males have sexually-driven impulses and some can't hold them in; he may have scarred the child but men are wolves and the child can still have a future to look forward to, even though she'll have a lot to overcome.

It is due to this logic that helps me overcome all taboo and base my thoughts on the truth, not false emotion. "OH NOES The man raped her! KILL HIM!" vs "Why did he do this? What he did was wrong but I'm sure there is a good explanation for this, however, he will by no means get away with this".[/quote]

Your fatuous certainty that you're far more qualified than those "falsely emotional" people to determine "the truth" of an issue which is purely theoretical to you because they can't possibly be as logical as you believe yourself to be, your flippant description of the magnitude of a brutal and shattering crime as "oh noes", your insulting characterization of "a lot of males" as wolves who are simply unable to resist their natural impulse toward rape, and your belief that "a good explanation" can exist for rape are all [i]entirely typical[/i] of people who have never been raped and are complacently certain they never will be.  You're not different.  You're not unique.  You sure as hell aren't superior.  You're just unaware that you've gone from the small pond in which you were a big frog into the bloody ocean.[/quote]
I extremely appreciate you taking your time to post such a lengthy paragraph. You have automatically gained a huge quantity of respect from me.

Now, as for the discussion. First off, I've seen many people shrug off events without even wondering why such an event could occur; not even to question the factors that have caused such a predicament. A great example would be a female in my English 101 class. She said that homosexuals were sinful and disgusting, the teacher asked why, and she said "I don't know... they just are." Believing in something without a reason seems like the worst thing anyone could ever do, mainly because it puts shame on humanity and its potential to use intelligence and think critically. Putting intelligence to waste by ignoring reason seems like a waste of a person if you ask me, but she still has the right to live, to procreate, and to fulfill the requirements that we all have in this life, only that she will continue to live a reason-less life. It's kind of like being assigned an open response and writing down "I don't know" as the answer.

Secondly, I don't think I explained this clearly. Most men are wolves because a lot of what they think about goes down into the following list: sex, food, sex, sleep, sex, beer, and sex. The emphasis is obvious. ;) However, that does not mean that most men think about rape. In fact, rape is something that most men cringe thinking about and find it repulsive, being that it is; the nature of having sex without consent is disgusting and it's no wonder why it's looked down upon. While a rapist is definitely desperate to "get some" and might even have a few mental problems, we cannot overlook how sexually active the man is and if his condition can be fixed; of course, he'd still need to serve a lot of time for permanently scarring someone's life. The mind of a male usually revolves around sex, but there are exceptions. Some men have no want for sex, thus most likely won't participate in any sexual activities and might even find the act of masturbation to be a complete waste of time, even though it is beyond the fact it is a form of entertainment and giving pleasure to oneself. Overall, the average male almost constantly thinks about sex, but at the same time are disgusted by the thought of rape.

Lastly, you prove an excellent point between the perspectives of the raped and those not raped. According to the one who is raped, there is no logic and the rapist deserve major punishment; a major slap of doom to the groin, if you will. With that said, you are right on that point and I congratulate you for adjusting my thoughts. I only like to further my knowledge and you certainly have done just that. :D

I feel like this now belongs in a debate section. :laugh: One thing that really worries me is that only a select few of you actually took your time to discuss your opinion on me or the argument itself. Like, posting an emoticon as a response to my post is extremely vague and posting something like "okay..." means almost nothing and only proves that not only is the argument awkward but that a few don't even have the words to express his or her true opinions on the matter. Chanoire, you have done such superbly.

I wonder when we will focus on nothing but the song? :laugh: It's quite a shame how much of a stir I have caused... even though I think it's a great example of how I overlook taboo, no matter how disgusting they may be. If it must be known, I am 100% against rape and I actually have a feeling someone is going to bring up "why did you have to justify yourself?". If that is the case, then it's because of the nature of my post. I'm sure MANY could automatically call me a rape-lover and a murder-hater (due to stereotyping), even though I extremely despise both.

EDIT: moozooh, you stole the words from my mouth. :D

moozooh

2007-10-02 10:29:11 pm

Quote from Nario:

Secondly, I don't think I explained this clearly. Most men are wolves because a lot of what they think about goes down into the following list: sex, food, sex, sleep, sex, beer, and sex.

And the reason you're believing in this is...? Rolling Eyes

Chanoire

2007-10-02 10:35:05 pm

My specific objection to the explanation phrase is the word "good" he attached to it. It's not like one commits rape in self-defense.

I agree that knee-jerk reactions often miss the point. But deciding in advance what the "logical" response is isn't any better, because this is a highly individualized situation. I recently read a long comment thread about a similar question: whether rape is worse than murder. There were responses by rape victims of both sexes... but none, as you might imagine, from rape victims who had committed suicide. Or from murder victims. Opinions varied on whether a blanket statement could be made, but given that the resilience of rape victims varies a great deal, I, and the owner of the blog on which this took place, found it impossible to state with conviction that life in what could amount to a living hell, battered and broken, is always preferable to death. (Actually, that was never a question to me; I have no doubt that there are experiences I would not want to survive.) Is it logical to continue living when life is intolerable?

While writing this, I see that a response from Nario has appeared. I find myself again without sufficient time to answer (and if you thought my other post was long, you should have seen my first draft), but I will state in passing that rape has far less to do with sex, and far more to do with power and control, than you imagine. And that even "a major slap of doom to the groin" sounds unbelievably light as a punishment.

My specific objection to the explanation phrase is the word "good" he attached to it.  It's not like one commits rape in self-defense.

I agree that knee-jerk reactions often miss the point.  But deciding in advance what the "logical" response is isn't any better, because this is a highly individualized situation.  I recently read a long comment thread about a similar question: whether rape is worse than murder.  There were responses by rape victims of both sexes... but none, as you might imagine, from rape victims who had committed suicide.  Or from murder victims.  Opinions varied on whether a blanket statement could be made, but given that the resilience of rape victims varies a great deal, I, and the owner of the blog on which this took place, found it impossible to state with conviction that life in what could amount to a living hell, battered and broken, is always preferable to death.  (Actually, that was never a question to me; I have no doubt that there are experiences I would not want to survive.)  Is it logical to continue living when life is intolerable?

While writing this, I see that a response from Nario has appeared.  I find myself again without sufficient time to answer (and if you thought my other post was long, you should have seen my first draft), but I will state in passing that rape has far less to do with sex, and far more to do with power and control, than you imagine.  And that even "a major slap of doom to the groin" sounds unbelievably light as a punishment.

Nario

2007-10-02 10:36:07 pm

Quote from moozooh:

Quote from Nario:

Secondly, I don't think I explained this clearly. Most men are wolves because a lot of what they think about goes down into the following list: sex, food, sex, sleep, sex, beer, and sex.

And the reason you're believing in this is...? Rolling Eyes

Because I have talked to many many men and that is the general consensus. I actually don't like drinking beer because it's a waste of money, it tastes bitter, and it kills my brain cells. However, the formula mostly works for me as well. laugh new

Well... more like for me it would be: thinking about sex, eating food, thinking about sex, sleeping, thinking about sex, hydrating myself with non-alcoholic beverages, and thinking about sex. I am a virgin, by the way.

On a side note, I was socially abused by high students my first two years of high school and literally turned me from straight to bi. WHY!? Crying or Very sad

I wasn't even born bi...

EDIT:

Quote from Chanoire:

My specific objection to the explanation phrase is the word "good" he attached to it. It's not like one commits rape in self-defense.

I agree that knee-jerk reactions often miss the point. But deciding in advance what the "logical" response is isn't any better, because this is a highly individualized situation. I recently read a long comment thread about a similar question: whether rape is worse than murder. There were responses by rape victims of both sexes... but none, as you might imagine, from rape victims who had committed suicide. Or from murder victims. Opinions varied on whether a blanket statement could be made, but given that the resilience of rape victims varies a great deal, I, and the owner of the blog on which this took place, found it impossible to state with conviction that life in what could amount to a living hell, battered and broken, is always preferable to death. (Actually, that was never a question to me; I have no doubt that there are experiences I would not want to survive.) Is it logical to continue living when life is intolerable?

While writing this, I see that a response from Nario has appeared. I find myself again without sufficient time to answer (and if you thought my other post was long, you should have seen my first draft), but I will state in passing that rape has far less to do with sex, and far more to do with power and control, than you imagine. And that even "a major slap of doom to the groin" sounds unbelievably light as a punishment.

I am sure that a rape victim would have a huge challenge in living life as normally as a non-rape victim - maybe even more challenging than beating Metroid Prime 2: Echoes on Hard with 30% items. Random, I know, but I can't do it. ;) - but let's compare that victim to someone who got caught in a fire, scorched, and looks deformed all over. Which is worse? A rape victim or one who got caught in a blazing fire and survived? A rape victim would be scarred emotionally but at least the figure would look the same. As for the fire victim, however, that person would go on forever looking and feeling like a disaster and may never have a family, procreate, and fulfill the many other requirements in life. Seriously, who would want to procreate with a deformed, fire victim? I'm not against the thought of a fire victim procreating, I'm just be realistic here. And I'm pretty sure that someone who has potential for liking the fire victim would think that he or she is hot, cute, or sexy. A wasted life without passing on genes. THAT or more wasteful than a rape victim, for that person can still look and have a family, no matter how hard it may be to not look at sexual relations of any form as rape.

[quote="moozooh"][quote="Nario"]Secondly, I don't think I explained this clearly. Most men are wolves because a lot of what they think about goes down into the following list: sex, food, sex, sleep, sex, beer, and sex.[/quote]
And the reason you're believing in this is...? :roll:[/quote]
Because I have talked to many many men and that is the general consensus. I actually don't like drinking beer because it's a waste of money, it tastes bitter, and it kills my brain cells. However, the formula mostly works for me as well. :laugh: Well... more like for me it would be: thinking about sex, eating food, thinking about sex, sleeping, thinking about sex, hydrating myself with non-alcoholic beverages, and thinking about sex. I am a virgin, by the way.

On a side note, I was socially abused by high students my first two years of high school and literally turned me from straight to bi. WHY!? :cry: I wasn't even born bi...

EDIT: [quote="Chanoire"]My specific objection to the explanation phrase is the word "good" he attached to it.  It's not like one commits rape in self-defense.

I agree that knee-jerk reactions often miss the point.  But deciding in advance what the "logical" response is isn't any better, because this is a highly individualized situation.  I recently read a long comment thread about a similar question: whether rape is worse than murder.  There were responses by rape victims of both sexes... but none, as you might imagine, from rape victims who had committed suicide.  Or from murder victims.  Opinions varied on whether a blanket statement could be made, but given that the resilience of rape victims varies a great deal, I, and the owner of the blog on which this took place, found it impossible to state with conviction that life in what could amount to a living hell, battered and broken, is always preferable to death.  (Actually, that was never a question to me; I have no doubt that there are experiences I would not want to survive.)  Is it logical to continue living when life is intolerable?

While writing this, I see that a response from Nario has appeared.  I find myself again without sufficient time to answer (and if you thought my other post was long, you should have seen my first draft), but I will state in passing that rape has far less to do with sex, and far more to do with power and control, than you imagine.  And that even "a major slap of doom to the groin" sounds unbelievably light as a punishment.[/quote]
I am sure that a rape victim would have a huge challenge in living life as normally as a non-rape victim - maybe even more challenging than beating Metroid Prime 2: Echoes on Hard with 30% items. Random, I know, but I can't do it. ;) - but let's compare that victim to someone who got caught in a fire, scorched, and looks deformed all over. Which is worse? A rape victim or one who got caught in a blazing fire and survived? A rape victim would be scarred emotionally but at least the figure would look the same. As for the fire victim, however, that person would go on forever looking and feeling like a disaster and may never have a family, procreate, and fulfill the many other requirements in life. Seriously, who would want to procreate with a deformed, fire victim? I'm not against the thought of a fire victim procreating, I'm just be realistic here. And I'm pretty sure that someone who has potential for liking the fire victim would think that he or she is hot, cute, or sexy. A wasted life without passing on genes. THAT or more wasteful than a rape victim, for that person can still look and have a family, no matter how hard it may be to not look at sexual relations of any form as rape.

moozooh

2007-10-02 10:45:26 pm

Quote from Nario:

I am a virgin, by the way.

Oh well, that might be the reason. I'd think that only those who clearly don't have enough sex in their life can <strike>be obsessed with it</strike> think about it this often.

Nario

2007-10-02 10:52:48 pm

Quote from moozooh:

Quote from Nario:

I am a virgin, by the way.

Oh well, that might be the reason. I'd think that only those who clearly don't have enough sex in their life can <strike>be obsessed with it</strike> think about it this often.

haha, you might have a point. However, I have heard the same from married men as well so, uh, I'm slightly confused? laugh new

If it must be said, when I marry my wife she will be my only love and the only sex I'd ever accept would be from her. No porn. No affairs. Just her, and only if she's willing as well. I would never force anything upon her.

Wow, this topic is going every which way now! XD

SABERinBLUE

2007-10-02 11:11:20 pm

Cook of the Sea

I had lots of fun not reading the second page of this thread.

moozooh

2007-10-02 11:30:47 pm

Quote from Chanoire:

I, and the owner of the blog on which this took place, found it impossible to state with conviction that life in what could amount to a living hell, battered and broken, is always preferable to death. (Actually, that was never a question to me; I have no doubt that there are experiences I would not want to survive.) Is it logical to continue living when life is intolerable?

The problem here is that in the end of it, choosing conditions that are supposed to be worse than death is up to each particular person and their desire for living. What for one is an ordinary experience not worth of particular mention, makes another want to die ASAP. Therefore, before asking whether it is logical, it makes sense to determine whether such life is really intolerable, and what makes it so.

13M13

2007-10-02 11:34:21 pm

l'appel du vide

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

I had lots of fun not reading the second page of this thread.

That's because you find the argument awkward and don't even have the words to express your true opinions on the matter.

moozooh

2007-10-02 11:35:10 pm

Quote from 13M13:

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

I had lots of fun not reading the second page of this thread.

That's because you find the argument awkward and don't even have the words to express your true opinions on the matter.

I hear he also rapes children.

SABERinBLUE

2007-10-02 11:36:20 pm

Cook of the Sea

That was ONE TIME.

Nario

2007-10-02 11:39:52 pm

Quote from 13M13:

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

I had lots of fun not reading the second page of this thread.

That's because you find the argument awkward and don't even have the words to express your true opinions on the matter.

You're so sneaky. ;) I like how you take words from my mouth, literally. Well, post, perhaps. :D

moozooh: You are right. There isn't a standard desire for anyone, for we all have the choice what to do with our lives.

I have learned that I'm becoming less and less unique the more I talk to some of the more sophisticated users here. I'm just looking forward to seeing this accident resolve and then just focus on my song Determination, because it's going to mean a lot to me as I continue developing my skills as a musician, let alone my mysterious path of orchestral composition.

moozooh

2007-10-02 11:47:53 pm

Quote from Nario:

I have learned that I'm becoming less and less unique the more I talk to some of the more sophisticated users here.

Everything goes according to our plan. From now on, you won't be called Nario anymore. Your new name will be Mario. In a couple weeks you will be stripped off of your uniqueness whatsoever, averaged out, and assimilated into the mass. (Ignoring the song is part of the plan as well, we don't foster talents here.)

13M13

2007-10-02 11:51:33 pm

l'appel du vide

Quote from moozooh:

I hear he also rapes children.

But only after burning them so they don't really notice.

Nario

2007-10-02 11:52:53 pm

Quote from moozooh:

Quote from Nario:

I have learned that I'm becoming less and less unique the more I talk to some of the more sophisticated users here.

Everything goes according to our plan. From now on, you won't be called Nario anymore. Your new name will be Mario. In a couple weeks you will be stripped off of your uniqueness whatsoever, averaged out, and assimilated into the mass. (Ignoring the song is part of the plan as well, we don't foster talents here.)

Rule #1. Do not talk about Fight Club.

Oh, and my real name is Nick and so my user name comes from Nick + Mario.

THE BORG

2007-10-02 11:56:13 pm

WE ARE THE BORG. LOWER YOUR SHIELDS AND SURRENDER YOUR SHIPS. YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS WILL BE ADDED TO OUR OWN. YOUR CULTURE WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.